I Corinthians 12:8-10

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Have you considered it may not be God's will for her to be healed? As horrible as it sounds, that may be true. Her living for God and overcoming physical suffering may bring him glory.

What I mean is that her lack of healing may have nothing to do with the gifting and faith of preachers, saints or herself. It may not be what God wants. There is scriptural precedent for such a thing.

Metaphoric mountains? The idea Jesus was espousing was that our faith (which is given by Him) moves things - it changes things. If you disagree with the idea that God uses His body you are espousing a deity that is not active and alive in people.

Normally your posts are reasoned, sound and bibilical but I disagree with you on this.

Yes suffering has its place, but in the NT this was never the issue when it comes to sickness to use it for suffering.

Yes for chastisement, but to develop some etheral character trait or fruit of the spirit no. Would you purposely give your child a illness, affliction to develop character?

Now the real reason is why are people not healed?

Faith is paramount. The faith of the person being prayed for and person doing the praying.

Timing, is this the Lord's time. Example John 5, Jesus only healed one person at that porch, while there were many there who needed healing. Matter of fact the man that Peter and John raised in Act 3, Jesus passed him numerous times, and yet didn't minister because it wasn't time.

The right person hasn't prayed for her, Just are there are preachers with authority and giftedness and you wouldnt allow a unseasoned preacher to preach a major conference, there are people gifted with authority to heal, has she been prayed for by the right person?

Although we are touched by one and the same Spirit, we and our gifts are different. The Spirit of the Lord is the one who heals, but we are not used by the Spirit in the same way nor to the same degree.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Normally your posts are reasoned, sound and bibilical but I disagree with you on this.

Yes suffering has its place, but in the NT this was never the issue when it comes to sickness to use it for suffering.

Yes for chastisement, but to develop some etheral character trait or fruit of the spirit no. Would you purposely give your child a illness, affliction to develop character?

Now the real reason is why are people not healed?

Faith is paramount. The faith of the person being prayed for and person doing the praying.

Timing, is this the Lord's time. Example John 5, Jesus only healed one person at that porch, while there were many there who needed healing. Matter of fact the man that Peter and John raised in Act 3, Jesus passed him numerous times, and yet didn't minister because it wasn't time.

The right person hasn't prayed for her, Just are there are preachers with authority and giftedness and you wouldnt allow a unseasoned preacher to preach a major conference, there are people gifted with authority to heal, has she been prayed for by the right person?

Although we are touched by one and the same Spirit, we and our gifts are different. The Spirit of the Lord is the one who heals, but we are not used by the Spirit in the same way nor to the same degree.

So God uses faith to justify?

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Kutless

So God uses faith to justify?

Not sure the connection to healing, but yes we are justified by faith.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Kutless

Shouldn't have used the metaphoric mountain term I'm sorry.

Wonder if the last few guys that have addressed her hearing loss considered her inibility to be healed? Like the one that told me it was due to spirits? Or the ones that have led her on with "preacher speak" like "its coming" "its already happened just claim it" so on etc etc.

Why aren't the healing arts more prevalent in our times?

Wow, there is so much to consider there.

First of all, I believe God can give a prophetic word to someone for your mom. Second, there are all sorts of folks who parrot a style or saying they ahve seen in the past. They replace faith with hype with , substance with style, and Spirit with flesh. There will always be a counterfeit wherever something real has historically succeeded.

The healing arts aren't more prevalent because, frankly, we just don't need them anymore. We are a church hooked on meds and docs and stupid new age ideas from Dr Phil and Oprah and the like. I mean with all of that, who really has time to call on God?

In speaking specifically to the lack of spritual gifts in operation in the church we must consider that this sort of activity is met with doubt. It is not fashionable or hip. Meanwhile the Charismatics are soaking up everything they can get no matter how silly it looks.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Have you considered it may not be God's will for her to be healed? As horrible as it sounds, that may be true. Her living for God and overcoming physical suffering may bring him glory.

What I mean is that her lack of healing may have nothing to do with the gifting and faith of preachers, saints or herself. It may not be what God wants. There is scriptural precedent for such a thing.

Metaphoric mountains? The idea Jesus was espousing was that our faith (which is given by Him) moves things - it changes things. If you disagree with the idea that God uses His body you are espousing a deity that is not active and alive in people.

Kutless ....

When God says NO ... it's no ... and I say that with all trepidation and human sorrow.

It's been the hardest thing I've had to learn about HIM.

During the close to thirty years ... of my Dad's ministry he laid his hands on many and they were healed ... or healed instanteously ....

Here was a man who lived a Godly and holy life ... as close to perfect ... and he was dying of a liver disease that resulted from drug use before he came to Christ ....

We prayed ... fasted ... the church locally and nationally did the same ... and his condition only worsened ....

We tried a live donor liver transplant ...

all the state of the art testing said we were compatible and ready to go ... we were using one of the best transplant hospitals and surgeons in the world .... they even cut me open w/ my Dad waiting to be reeled in for the exchange....

all to our surprise ...

God said ...no ... to our prayers and to the medical field ....

not even the best technology in the word could detect that my liver had an anomaly .... and so I was sewn back up and Dad died 6 months later ...

With all this ... I know God has given through His Spirit ... the supernatural gift of healing .... the Word and my experiences give witness to this ... Remember ... folks were healed when Peter's shadow pass them by ....

We are but threads in a beautiful tapestry God is weaving ....

I know ... as Job ... our Redeemer lives .... and

... know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. (NRSV)

Dan...

I love you bro.


Thanks for sharing that with us.

I know it was tough to go through it, and to relive it for the post...

You're one of my favorite people in this world... and I'm honored to know you.

Praying for you bro.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Normally your posts are reasoned, sound and bibilical but I disagree with you on this.

Yes suffering has its place, but in the NT this was never the issue when it comes to sickness to use it for suffering.

Yes for chastisement, but to develop some etheral character trait or fruit of the spirit no. Would you purposely give your child a illness, affliction to develop character?

Now the real reason is why are people not healed?

Faith is paramount. The faith of the person being prayed for and person doing the praying.

Timing, is this the Lord's time. Example John 5, Jesus only healed one person at that porch, while there were many there who needed healing. Matter of fact the man that Peter and John raised in Act 3, Jesus passed him numerous times, and yet didn't minister because it wasn't time.

The right person hasn't prayed for her, Just are there are preachers with authority and giftedness and you wouldnt allow a unseasoned preacher to preach a major conference, there are people gifted with authority to heal, has she been prayed for by the right person?

Although we are touched by one and the same Spirit, we and our gifts are different. The Spirit of the Lord is the one who heals, but we are not used by the Spirit in the same way nor to the same degree.

I am not proposing that God caused the sickness, I am proposing that God does allow His children to be afflicted. If this were not so none of us would ever die from sickness. I believe that "many are the afflictions of the righteous".

We cannot propose (outside of supernatural knowledge) to know the mind and will of God regarding every persons illness. Paul said that he had learned to be content in whatever state he was in. If God heals me, I will praise Him. If He chooses not to, I will praise Him.

Blessed be the Name of The Lord in all things.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Kutless ....

When God says NO ... it's no ... and I say that with all trepidation and human sorrow.

It's been the hardest thing I've had to learn about HIM.

During the close to thirty years ... of my Dad's ministry he laid his hands on many and the were healed ... or healed instanteously ....

Here was a man who lived a Godly and holy life ... as close to perfect ... and he was dying of a liver disease that resulted from drug use before he came to Christ ....

We prayed ... fasted ... the church locally and nationally did the same ... and his condition only worsened ....

We tried a live donor liver transplant ...

all the state of the art testing said we were compatible and ready to go ... we were using one of the best transplant hospitals and surgeons in the world .... they even cut me open .... all to our surprise ...

God said ...no ... to our prayers and to the medical field ....

not even the best technology in the word could detect that my liver had an anomaly .... and so I was sewn back up and Dad died 6 months later ...

With all this ... I know God has given through His Spirit ... the supernatural gift of healing .... the Word and my experiences give witness to this ... Remember ... folks were healed when Peter's shadow pass them by ....

We are but threads in a beautiful tapestry God is weaving ....

I know ... as Job ... our Redeemer lives .... and

... know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. (NRSV)

Sorry to hear, it parellels the story of John Wimber, the most profiecent healer in the last 20 years, prayed for many who were healed. But died of a stroke, after suffering with cancer, angina, etc. Age 63.

Yes God does say no, but very rare. But there is a time appointed unto man.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Kutless ....

When God says NO ... it's no ... and I say that with all trepidation and human sorrow.

It's been the hardest thing I've had to learn about HIM.

During the close to thirty years ... of my Dad's ministry he laid his hands on many and the were healed ... or healed instanteously ....

Here was a man who lived a Godly and holy life ... as close to perfect ... and he was dying of a liver disease that resulted from drug use before he came to Christ ....

We prayed ... fasted ... the church locally and nationally did the same ... and his condition only worsened ....

We tried a live donor liver transplant ...

all the state of the art testing said we were compatible and ready to go ... we were using one of the best transplant hospitals and surgeons in the world .... they even cut me open .... all to our surprise ...

God said ...no ... to our prayers and to the medical field ....

not even the best technology in the word could detect that my liver had an anomaly .... and so I was sewn back up and Dad died 6 months later ...

With all this ... I know God has given through His Spirit ... the supernatural gift of healing .... the Word and my experiences give witness to this ... Remember ... folks were healed when Peter's shadow pass them by ....

We are but threads in a beautiful tapestry God is weaving ....

I know ... as Job ... our Redeemer lives .... and

... know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. (NRSV)

I really appreciate this post. I felt something lift from me when I read it. God bless you!

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I am not proposing that God caused the sickness, I am proposing that God does allow His children to be afflicted. If this were not so none of us would ever die from sickness. I believe that "many are the afflictions of the righteous".

We cannot propose (outside of supernatural knowledge) to know the mind and will of God regarding every persons illness. Paul said that he had learned to be content in whatever state he was in. If God heals me, I will praise Him. If He chooses not to, I will praise Him.

Blessed be the Name of The Lord in all things.

I agree, but we can be aggressive and faith filled in seeking for the Kingdom. We are not promised all of the Kingdom now, but its not my job to figure out how much he gives, but to get all that he is giving. Thy Kingdom come, they will be done. I don't see that as a cop out, because there is much in the kingdom that he wants for us to enjoy.