1000 year reign

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I do not beleive that i am 100% right, nor do I believe one has to be right on this subject.

I think if we teach it as doctrine we better be 100% right. I'm not teaching something that I'm not 100% right about.

I suppose you mean you could say, "This is how I see it, thus far."?

[Michael The Disciple]

Here is the basis for the 1000 year reign taught by John.

21: I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22: Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23: Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Dan. 7:21-27

All dominions shall serve him? John said he will rule nations with a rod of iron.

Paul saw the same thing:

2: Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor. 6:2

The Saints shall judge the world! In the same manner that YHWH gave judges over Israel he will use the Church to judge the nations.

Paul saw the total restoration of the Earth.

19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20: For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22: For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Rom. 8:19-22

In his time this was still future but nevertheless certain. The 1000 year reign pertains to this.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here is the basis for the 1000 year reign taught by John.

21: I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22: Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23: Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Dan. 7:21-27

Brother, I do not see how this has anything to do with a 1000 year reign. This is speaking about RULING NOW as Ep 2:5-6 says we are seated with him over all powers and names in this world, NOW.

The context of Dan 7 is that the fourth beast of Daniel's visions of gentile kingdoms. The fourth beast was ROME. There was no fifth beast. This was the KINGDOM in power when Christ was incarnated. This kingdom came down by the power of the church, and the CHURCH IS THE WORLD KINGDOM NOW and ever since then.

Even when people take Daniel 2's dream of Nebuchadnezzar, and Daniel's interpretation of it, they insert a fifth kingdom, when in reality there is only four mentioned. And that has been gone long ago! The idea that the fourth one, whom all agree is Rome, is later resurrected thousands of years after Rome fell and is the feet and toes is error.

Read it carefully. Follow the context from Daniel 2 through into 7.

BABYLON and Nebuchadnezzar was the first head of gold:

Dan 2:37 KJV Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

Dan 2:39 KJV And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan 2:40 KJV And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Then there are three more ending with a fourth.

Notice the feet and toes of iron and clay are not considered a fifth kingdom, but the fourth one simply weakened and divided.

Dan 2:41 KJV And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

THE KINGDOM shall be divided. But it is not a fifth kingdom. It is the fourth divided. That is all.

And the FOURTH ONE FALLS and the CHURCH rises up INSTEAD.

Dan 2:44 KJV And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

It does not stand for 1000 mere years. BUT FOREVER! The Roman kingdom is GONE, and scholars agree the CHURCH brought it down. WE RULE NOW with Jesus. He is on the throne NOW! And he is sitting there until death is destroyed, not getting there AFTER death is destroyed, and the kingdom goes on forever. (Only 1000 years????)

And this mirrors the info. of beasts in Daniel 7. In the days of the FOURTH BEAST, Rome, will the Son of man go in clouds to the Father, and TAKE SOMETHING just as JOHN SAW THE LAMB TAKE A BOOK IN REV 5. This is the HIGH PRIEST IN ATONEMENT.

Dan 7:7-11 KJV After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (8) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. (9) I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. (10) A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. (11) I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Dan 7:13-14 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. (14) And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This is Christ on the throne! Just as in Rev 5, where the Lamb came and took the book and caused the saints to be kings and priests, we read that the meaning of the Son of Man taking dominion is fulfilled in the SAINTS given dominion over the earth, because the Son of man as High Priest went in AS THEM.

Dan 7:17-18 KJV These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. (18) But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

The CHURCH is ruling NOW in the Spirit over the earth. We command devils to flee, diseases to let go, and pray down ungodliness in empires and nations. We are seated with HIM NOW.

continued...

[mfblume]

...continued

If we look for a physical kingdom, which will never come, we will waste away all the time we have NOW to rule in the Spirit in our throne with Christ.

Eph 2:5-6 KJV Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Daniel 7 and Revelation 5 BOTH SHOW the same truth. Christ is high priest and went to the Father in the most holy place where none else could go. And obtained salvation and atonement and EVEN POWER for us with God.

Rom 5:10-11 KJV For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Rom 5:17 KJV For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

WE REIGN IN LIFE NOW!!!!! All through the same atonement that paid for our sins and gave redemption to us.

Rev 5:9-10 KJV And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; (10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The same blood that washed away my sins made me a king already.

Rev 1:5-6 KJV And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

This DUAL accomplishment by atonement is everywhere in the bible, once you see it. THE CROSS DID THIS ALREADY.

We are seated with HIM NOW to rule. But it is spiritual. Otherwise we must deny Eph 2:5-6!

We'll mistaken all this spiritual portrayal of our position in Christ NOW for physical thrones and physical crowns and physical palaces and kingdom. But Christ said THE KINGDOM DOES NOT COME WITH OBSERVATION, BUT IS IN YOU. We can never say LO HERE or LO THERE. IT IS IN YOU.

Luk 17:20-21 KJV And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And one will MISS the opportunity NOW and wait for something that will never come physically but already exists NOW spiritually as EPH 1:5-6 SAYS.

Rev 5:6-11 KJV And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. (7) And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. (8) And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. (9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; (10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (11) And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

That above is the same picture as Daniel 7.

All dominions shall serve him? John said he will rule nations with a rod of iron.

HE DOES! Spiritually he sets up kings and tears them down.

Dan 4:35 KJV And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Dan 2:20-21 KJV Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: (21) And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Paul saw the same thing:

2: Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor. 6:2

The Saints shall judge the world! In the same manner that YHWH gave judges over Israel he will use the Church to judge the nations.

SPIRITUALLY THROUGH PRAYER AND FAITH NOW! You're missing the forest for the trees. All you have are statements that do not explicitly say this occurs in a kingdom age after the church age. You derive that new age issue. All the while the Bible does not TEACH a millennium after the church age. Nothing is explicit. You can only take a vision and INTERPRET it, where there is no statement saying AN AGE FOLLOWS THE CHURCH AGE CALLED MILLENNIUM.

Paul saw the total restoration of the Earth.

19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20: For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22: For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Rom. 8:19-22

In his time this was still future but nevertheless certain. The 1000 year reign pertains to this.

Romans 8 is speaking about resurrection when death is removed. But this has nothing to do with a physical kingdom that Jesus said woudl never come, but be SPIRITUAL AND IN YOU ALONE.

Praise God! It's here now!

Luk 11:20 KJV But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Y'all can wait for a physical kingdom that will never come, but is here now IN YOU, but I am enjoying growth in the Kingdom and seeing more dominion arise in my heart SPIRITUALLY.

See all the bible I had for PRESENT REALITY ruling. Ep 2:5-6; Luke 11:20; Luke 17:20-21. That's just scratching the surface.

Which is greater? Nothing about ruling now, or ruling now in a spiritual kingdom? Truth always makes things GREATER!

[mfblume]

People think it is belittling the KINGDOM if it is a spiritual rule instead of a physical one. THE BIBLE SAYS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. Even ruling our own SPIRITS is better than ruling a physical city!

Pro 16:32 KJV He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Here is a interesting article.
http://scionofzion.com/millennium.htm

Brother Blume, you do commit the error of a false dichotomy, in presenting for our admonition the two choices of either "a physical kingdom that will never come" vs. "growth in the kingdom and seeing more dominion arise in my hearts [sic] SPIRITUALLY."

The Milleniual Kingdom does not rule out the prospect of spiritual growth in any way, shape, or form.

By speaking of "a physical kingdom that will never come" you seem to deny the physical aspect of the coming Resurrection and the restoration of all things (including this physical planet we call "Earth").

Paul spoke of the Resurrection as "inherit[ing] the Kingdom of God" and specifically said that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit it. The solution he offered was the doctrine of Resurrection - a real, bona fide, "physical" (ie material, substantial) resurrection and change. By equating the bodily Resurrection with inheriting the kingdom of God the apostle Paul proves there is a "physical kingdom" - namely, the "physical" resurrection of the saints unto Eternal Life.

Jesus said the meek would inherit the earth, Paul said Abraham was chosen by God to inherit the whole world, and also that the saints shall judge (rule) the world. All of these promises were future.

To deny the material, "physical" aspect of the Kingdom of God is to relegate Christianity to a mere moral suasion of no definite, concrete effects in this universe - the exact error of consistent preterism.

I find it ironic that you object to the consistent preterist doctrine by claiming they "leave evil in the world forever", yet this is essentially what you are doing in a roundabout way, yourself.

If the Resurrection is a bodily resurrection, a "physical" resurrection, then the Kingdom is a "physical" kingdom, at least in part.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Eliseus my friend are doing ok ?
Let me know when you get your tracts done.

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Eliseus my friend are doing ok ?
Let me know when you get your tracts done.

Brother, I've been under a lot of pressure lately from work and other things.

I will let you know, however I have to get a new printer. The one I have... the ink cartridges cost the same as the printer, brand new!!!!! Arggghhh!!!

I pray all is well with you and your family?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Yes my friend we are making it , I miss your posts.