Tithing…Is it a command?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

tithing in itself isn't salvational, but being a spiritual led giver is.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

tithing in itself isn't salvational, but being a spiritual led giver is.

I agree.

[Sean]

I am convinced in the Holy Ghost that the day the oneness movement drops the word "tithe" from its doctrinal position, the Lord will entrust us with innumerable numbers of souls to our care. The less fault that these souls can find with us, the more chance they will continue fellowshipping with us all of their lives. We can put a stop to the huge revolving door and have the FULLNESS of the Holy Ghost moving and doing signs and wonders among us when we finally become pure and faultless in our doctrines.

[Sean]

This was an earlier post by Bro. Hall.....I thought it would be good to share.


ChristopherHall ChristopherHall is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,781
Re: Tithing…Is it a command?
Gloryseeker,

Right now the most painful debt we have is my student loan. Praise God we got the wife’s paid off. We’ve never had excessive credit card debt or anything like that. The cost in living is also eating us alive right now, not to mention we just had a baby over a year ago.

Gloryseeker, I’m not a health and wealth prosperity gospel preacher. I don’t believe in the “magic tithe”. God was speaking to Israel as a nation not as individuals and not to mention it was under the Old Covenant.

Many things can be found in the Old Testament and drug into the New Testament. However, we cannot base an argument from silence. We know Abraham tithed once. We know that Jacob tithed once. We know they understood the principle of tithing. However, we don’t see them “tithing” as a practice. But even if we wanted to assume they tithed as a practice, there wasn’t a Law requiring Abraham or Jacob to do so. They purposed to give out of a willing heart, not a requirement or commandment.

What we need is an example of a Christian in the New Testament Church (Post-Pentecost) “tithing” or a command to “tithe” to be mentioned in the Epistles by Paul, John, Peter, or someone. If it’s not there…it’s not commanded under the New Testament. We’re not talking about stories discussing an entirely different subject in an entirely different context where the tithe is just mentioned and the idea of a command inferred by the reader….we’re talking about solid, biblical, hermeneutic establishing the tithe as a command under the New Covenant.

Take in mind…we cannot impress our 21st century idea of church into 1st century biblical history. During the first 300 years of Christianity there weren’t any “church buildings” and Christians were typically establishing churches in homes, training new disciples, and then they were being dispatched into evangelism and were on the move. They didn’t settle down into a building with a building program and get a bunch of people to fill pews and provide a salary for the pastor. Instead these “churches” typically never numbered more than an average of between 20 to 30 people at most. They were rooted in homes and had multiple elders overseeing the assembly serving as teachers. All, including the elders, were expected to work for their living; however those who “preach the gospel” (evangelists) were to be sustained by offerings that would get them to their destination, supported by the local congregation founded there, and then offerings were provided by that congregation to get them to their next destination.

If the New Testament Church was expected to practice tithing, they would have tithed according to the Law. That means they would have tithed of monetary income, harvest, and livestock. None of this is recorded in the NT. In the OT the tithes were gathered and stored in the storehouse or in the treasury of the Temple. Where did the early church, who only gathered in homes (for the first 300 years), store all this stuff? It’s never mentioned and we have no idea if indeed they did tithe (which they didn’t). The NT church only knew and practiced generous love offerings. These offerings went to relieve the widows and to sustain those called to give their entire lives to evangelism.

Then there is the issue of the Gentiles. Gentiles weren’t familiar with Old Testament “tithing”. We are left asking, if the tithe was a commandment, believed and practiced in the early church, why don’t we see Paul or someone explaining or teaching these principles (to the Gentiles in the book of Acts or in the Epistles) who didn’t have and were not familiar with the OT?

I fear you’re unknowingly imposing our modern “churchianity” on the biblical New Testament Church.

All that is asked for is a single example or direct reference or command regarding “tithing” in the New Testament. Certainly it would be mentioned in a New Testament context.

Historically speaking theologians and historians can’t find any evidence of Christians “tithing” until it was mandated by the Catholic Church to support their Bishops, Cathedrals, and political projects. The idea of tithing was initially rejected. Eventually it was mentioned in councils at Tours in 567 and at Mâcon in 585. The teaching of tithing was finally formally recognized under Pope Adrian I in 787.

Let’s be careful not to impose our models and our systems into the 1st century biblical text.
__________________

[KeptByTheWord]

Very good post by Chris Hall... thanks for posting Sean!

The NT teaches giving with love... and there is never a set mandated amount, no matter how people try to twist the scriptures to intimate such.

Giving indeed is taught and upheld as a NT principle... if you want to use the 10% as an amount to give by... by all means do so... but do not make it a heaven/hell issue.

Remember too that giving in $$ is not the only way to give... Jesus said if you give a little child cold water to drink, there is a blessing and a reward in doing that.

[Rudy]

What about starting a petition and send it to Bro. Bernard? Stating the upci position whether it is salvational or not?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Rudy

What about starting a petition and send it to Bro. Bernard? Stating the upci position whether it is salvational or not?

You could try. I believe Bro. Bernard recognizes and knows this in his heart of hearts, because he is an intelligent and educated man... yet to go forward with the understanding that tithing is a matter of heart giving, instead of a mandated percentage... can you imagine the outcry against him?

Not only that... what about all the other hundreds, if not thousands of Christian organizations who depend on the tithing $$ to fund their lifestyles and buildings? It is a system that needs to come crashing down, but it will be at the expense of many who have built their lifestyles around the $$ that come in.

[good samaritan]

I have already stated my open mindedness concerning the tithe. I teach tithing in my church by example, but it is not an absolute % that is enforced on people heaven or hell.
Though, I am concerned for most people who have a problem committing such a small amount to the work of God. For those who totally argue against tithing I sometimes wonder how much they actually give.
I know we can give in many other ways than just dollars and cents, but in this nation of America it seems to be most important. I believe one of the top troubles in American married couples is finances. I have heard of people ending there lives because of financial stress and that shows the importance of money in our nation.
All that being said, wouldn't you think that God does care how much we give financially to his work. It has been said, that the church system as we know it needs to come crashing down. I agree with that statement in many ways, but it is not just church buildings and pastors who have fault. Many who complain how lavish churches and pastors live are not doing without too many luxuries themselves.
In a nutshell, don't tithe if you don't' want to. Whether or not the whole Church system needs to come crashing down? I would rather let God decide about that.
P.S. We will be feeding bus children from tough neighborhoods in our community tomorrow morning because, of people who pay tithes. We don't have a lavish building structure nor does the pastor receive a big salary, but we do love souls.

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God

[mfblume]

Tithing is not a command. It's a good system.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Tithing is not a command. It's a good system.

I agree. I believe we should be careful not to present tithes beyond what the scripture says, but it gives people an idea of what God expected in the law. People can decide on a personal level what they want to commit and God is who we all will answer to.