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09-28-2008, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
I think you are seriously in error on this point. Paul is telling people they will not make the kingdom of Heaven that is coming. There are other similar portions of scripture that say the same thing.
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I strongly disagree. It is like Israel being the people of God but not in Israel due to sin. They were in bondage. The kingdom is here now. It is not coming. Jesus told us to pray for the kingdom to come before the day of pentecost.
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Also I would say almost all Preachers and Christians at least in effect believe the "finished work" message.
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I disagree. Check out theoldpaths' words.
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I would like to see the balance begin to get a serious hearing. You know like the requirements of discipleship.
25: And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27: And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28: For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29: Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30: Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
31: Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32: Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33: So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:25-26
Instead Saints have a steady diet that there is nothing they can do.
Jesus did not go around preaching to people "Theres nothing you can do to be my disciple".
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We are not talking about what to do to be a disciple. We are talking about people who think they have to do something to become righteous.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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09-28-2008, 09:36 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
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Originally Posted by JTULLOCK
Good thoughts.
The Bible talks about hungering and thirsting "after" righteousness. It doesn't say "after" you OBTAIN righteousness.
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VERY GOOD POINT!
We will find legalism amongst someone on this forum through this issue, for this issue is the crux of the entire difference between legalism and true righteousness.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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09-28-2008, 03:31 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
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Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Many people have a hard time with concept because they think it means easy believism. It means nothing of the sort. It means He paid all that He could for all that I need. I don't need to and can't do anything to improve upon it or to earn it in any way. That does NOT mean that I ignore what He did and live a licentious life thinking that "It is finished" means eternal security from a Calvanistic viewpoint.  |
Strong language here. A very hard saying indeed!
I agree wholeheartedly! 
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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09-28-2008, 04:40 PM
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
Amen, Bro Hoover!
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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09-28-2008, 04:48 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
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Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Many people have a hard time with concept because they think it means easy believism. It means nothing of the sort. It means He paid all that He could for all that I need. I don't need to and can't do anything to improve upon it or to earn it in any way. That does NOT mean that I ignore what He did and live a licentious life thinking that "It is finished" means eternal security from a Calvanistic viewpoint. |
Someone has said salvation is 95% God and 5% us. While I agree in premise and somewhat in theory however there are way too many scriptures on admonitions-commandments-warnings to think man has NOTHING to co-operate in our salvation.
He is the Saviour not I but I must accept His redemption thus He does NOT force me or make me serve Him. I choose to serve Him of my own free-will.
He is the Sanctifier I cannot sanctify myself without HIs blood-Spirit-Word-ministry He provides that I must apply what He has provided.
He is my Keeper I must allow Him to keep me. He does not save me without my compliance and He does not keep me without my compliance.
NONE of my compliance takes anything away from Him who is All in All.
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09-28-2008, 05:04 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
My contribution to the salvation of my soul is about the same as my contibution to my wifes' peach pie recipe... it is pretty much limited to me opening my mouth and recieving it!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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09-28-2008, 05:08 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
My contribution to the salvation of my soul is about the same as my contibution to my wifes' peach pie recipe... it is pretty much limited to me opening my mouth and recieving it!
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Bro. Hoover while I understand what you are saying we are NOT taking away anything from Jesus and His mercy and grace in repeating what Him and his Apostles instructs us TO DO in His Word.
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09-28-2008, 05:18 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Bro. Hoover while I understand what you are saying we are NOT taking away anything from Jesus and His mercy and grace in repeating what Him and his Apostles instructs us TO DO in His Word.
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Indeed - and even that is Christ working in and through us.
I think many of us holiness people fear if we don't mandate everything in detail we fail to remain a people who are separate from the world. In some regard it also effects our view of salvation.
For example; instead of acknowledging baptism is a part of Christian initiation and moving on, we often get focused of the finer points to the neglect of discipleship and Christian maturity.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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09-28-2008, 05:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Indeed - and even that is Christ working in and through us.
I think many of us holiness people fear if we don't mandate everything in detail we fail to remain a people who are separate from the world. In some regard it also effects our view of salvation.
For example; instead of acknowledging baptism is a part of Christian initiation and moving on, we often get focused of the finer points to the neglect of discipleship and Christian maturity.
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Help me enlarge more on this?
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09-28-2008, 05:34 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Thoughts on the Finished work of the cross?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Help me enlarge more on this?
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I will keep it general since there is a risk of derailing the thread.
Regardless of ones' precise soteriological positions concerning Christian initiation, it is imperative that it always be presented to be all about Christ and the cross where he purchased our salvation.
The testimonies that always start with with "I am so glad I have been baptised in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues...." need to be revised. The good news is the Christ suffered and died for my sins - paying a debt he did not owe and I could not pay! This is cause to rejoice!
That I testify publicly to this fact is evidence that I have recieved and followed through with Christian initiation.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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