Goths

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by brodano

does not the word say be ye seperate come out from among them.. If we are living for the true and living God we are a new creation put off the old man..

Yeah the Word says that but if you're a preacher then get them to pose with you. Then parade them in front of other Christians to show the other Christians just how Christ like you are. Then I guess it's worth it for the photogenic preacher...SMILE!

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by HappyTown

I beleive it has to do with a heart issues, not outward one!

Are you saying that in the early Christian church that the European tribesmen would of continued in painting and tattooing themselves after they were baptized into the church? I thought they were to discontinue their paganism?

[xiangothdude]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I didn't consider Goth a religion, although it can be classified as being such.
Subcultures take on the aspect of religion, and therefore you can say that a subculture has its own music, language, attire, and behavior. You said yourself that a "Mall Goth" is not an actual Goth. Therefore you just showed us that within your Goth experience that you have separated yourself from those Goths who fit not the pattern that you and your group prescribe.
You called the "Mall Goths" posers, therefore if they are posers then they are hypocrites, a.k.a "poser."

I asked "Since you recognize that all life and things die, and realize death is apart of life, what is your view of an after life?"

Do you believe in speaking in tonngues and the Spirit gives the utterance?
Do you believe in the water baptism in Jesus name?

Do you paint your fingernails black?

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Yes I do believe in gift of tongues and other spiritual gifts, and yes I do believe in Water Baptism etc.

Have I painted my nails black? Once, for the first and probably last time a few months ago (to see if it looked good one me, it doesn't lol).

[HappyTown]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Are you saying that in the early Christian church that the European tribesmen would of continued in painting and tattooing themselves after they were baptized into the church? I thought they were to discontinue their paganism?

Believe it or not Evang.Benincasa, there are bible verses about nose rings. And you might be surprised by what the bible has to say.The first is in Genesis 24 where Abraham sends a servant to find a wife for his son, Isaac. The second passage is in Ezekiel 16 where God uses highly figurative language to describe how he chose Israel as his own possession.

Genesis 24:21-22
Without saying a word, the man watched her closely to learn whether or not the Lord had made his journey successful. When the camels had finished drinking, the man took out a gold nose ring weighing a beka and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels.

Ezekiel 16:9-14
I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put leather sandals on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.

The word , “pierce,” is in fact from a Hebrew word that means, “slash,” or “cut.” The nations around Israel and in the Promised Land where God was sending them had a funeral rite that involved using stones or knives to cut their flesh until it bled. That is what God commanded them not to do. Leviticus 19:28 has nothing to do with jewelry. “Do not cut your bodies for the dead…” The law is against cutting oneself as a means of showing grief or for funeral rites, see also Deuteronomy 14:1; Jeremiah 16:6, 48:37; and Mark 5:5.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

There is a couple here, @ NLC, who go to Goth concerts and witness to the attenders. They don't go inside, but they do actively talk to passersby. Here is a pic of them after they spoke to our youth. They love the Lord with all their heart and I would love to have 20 more just like them. You would not believe this guy's story of mental abuse as a school boy. It is a miracle that he is alive. We love he and his wife, Ruthy unconditionally and love the acceptance they receive from the folks @ NLC. I really do love these people. They have received the "cold shoulder" from more than one church for being different. They actually asked "permission" to attend and wondered if it would be all right if Goths got saved to bring them to church! So sad, they even had to ask. I told them, "God forbid that someone would come to church seeking Jesus that looks weird!" :

I have to admit, I lean toward the take of my old Tae Kwon Do teacher on this stuff.

I have seen him rip pony tails off and earrings out of men's ears...

... can't say I believe that is Christlike either though.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

There is a couple here, @ NLC, who go to Goth concerts and witness to the attenders.

MOW, what doctrine are they presenting to the concert goers? When I was in the world I had Bikers for Jesus witness to me, I thought they needed to 86 the Biker duds if they were going to be Christians. Imagine that, before Christ, before I ever walked into a Apostolic Pentecostal Church, I thought that if you were going to be a Holy Joe, you would at least not only stop cursing, drinking beer, breaking the law, but you would get rid of the outlaw look, and German helmet. Many others who rode with me shared my thoughts on the Biker Christians.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

They don't go inside, but they do actively talk to passersby.

Don't you think it's winning the World with the World? The Biker's for Jesus went to all our gatherings, Daytona, Sturgis, Laconia, and Biketoberfest.
Some individuals said sinner prayers and then I was drinking with them that same night. I saw people I knew on their knees shedding tears, and reciting the sinner's prayer, but later that night they would be sharing a beer with me.
Unchanged, and unmotivated to do anything with their new found religion.

I really began to think that those dudes were doing it more for themselves then doing it for us. They would tell me that Jesus would of been an outlaw if He was walking the earth today. I thought that was smoked, Jesus would of been an outlaw, and selling dope, extorting money from dancers? I started to consider these Bikers for Jesus, a little far removed from the Christ they claimed to represent. Some of those men who shared Jesus were sincere and saw through the other guys who wanted to notch their Bibles by getting their pictures with Bikers who had their heads bowed in prayer.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Here is a pic of them after they spoke to our youth.

Is that what it's all about? When I came to the Lord, and shaved my beard (no one told me) and got rid of my earrings (no one told me) put on a suit and pair of shoes instead of my engineer boots. Still, there were those who wanted me to focus on my past, and my tattoos. That world was behind me, and I wanted to keep it that way. I didn't want to be bearded, leather jacketed, boots and chains. I wanted to follow another leader, one who wasn't like those who notched their Bibles every time a tattooed bearded head was bowed in prayer.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

They love the Lord with all their heart and I would love to have 20 more just like them.

I hope you get your wish, and when that happens you will end up looking just like them. I wonder what you will look like in eye shadow and ear plugs?

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

You would not believe this guy's story of mental abuse as a school boy. It is a miracle that he is alive.

May the Lord bless him and lead him into all Truth.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

We love he and his wife, Ruthy unconditionally and love the acceptance they receive from the folks @ NLC. I really do love these people.

Unconditionally? No conditions? Then no one has to be a minister in your church to preach on Sunday. I guess you also share the tithes and offerings with everyone when they first come to church. Your phone must be ringing off the hook with people wanting their lights to be turned on. You must be loaded with individuals wanting their bills paid and rent paid? I understand that you just said the unconditional thing, because you want us to think of you as some ultra-nicer-than-Jesus Preacher.

Hey do you still take tithes and offerings from your people who come to your church?

Funny how there are those who blow off standards, but they never 86 tithes and offerings. Unless they are not a preacher, or should I say the "main" preacher.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

They have received the "cold shoulder" from more than one church for being different.

Cold shoulder from who? Come on, they should come down to Fort Lauderdale and Miami. They are mild compared to what is strolling into churches down here. They would be able to attend church at Calvary Chapel, and Coral Ridge, any of the Pentecostal churches down here without any kind of problem.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

They actually asked "permission" to attend and wondered if it would be all right if Goths got saved to bring them to church!

Keep us up to date on all the Goths that these two bing to your church.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

So sad, they even had to ask. I told them, "God forbid that someone would come to church seeking Jesus that looks weird!" :

The song says "come as you are" not, stay as you is.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I have to admit, I lean toward the take of my old Tae Kwon Do teacher on this stuff.

I have seen him rip pony tails off and earrings out of men's ears...

... can't say I believe that is Christlike either though.

Hey! your Tae Kwon Do teacher must of learned that from my father!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by HappyTown

Believe it or not Evang.Benincasa, there are bible verses about nose rings. And you might be surprised by what the bible has to say.The first is in Genesis 24 where Abraham sends a servant to find a wife for his son, Isaac. The second passage is in Ezekiel 16 where God uses highly figurative language to describe how he chose Israel as his own possession.

Genesis 24:21-22
Without saying a word, the man watched her closely to learn whether or not the Lord had made his journey successful. When the camels had finished drinking, the man took out a gold nose ring weighing a beka and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels.

Ezekiel 16:9-14
I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put leather sandals on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.

The word , “pierce,” is in fact from a Hebrew word that means, “slash,” or “cut.” The nations around Israel and in the Promised Land where God was sending them had a funeral rite that involved using stones or knives to cut their flesh until it bled. That is what God commanded them not to do. Leviticus 19:28 has nothing to do with jewelry. “Do not cut your bodies for the dead…” The law is against cutting oneself as a means of showing grief or for funeral rites, see also Deuteronomy 14:1; Jeremiah 16:6, 48:37; and Mark 5:5.

Ring in the nose of a woman was a pagan practice of the Chadians, as was earrings. Abram came out of the Ur of the Chaldees, he was a pagan the son of pagans, who worshiped a goat headed deity, as many other deities.
Abram came out from among them to be separate, and then was named Abraham.

I understand the practice of using stones and knives in mourning, but the practice of tattooing was used in the ancient times to identify with one's tribe, position in the tribe or culture, and to worship their devils.

Jewelry was primarily used to worship gods, or ward off unclean spirits.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by xiangothdude

Yes I do believe in gift of tongues and other spiritual gifts, and yes I do believe in Water Baptism etc.

Have I painted my nails black? Once, for the first and probably last time a few months ago (to see if it looked good one me, it doesn't lol).

Thank you for answering some of my questions. Do you water baptize in the name of Jesus Christ as it says in Acts 2:38? Also what would be the etc?

Again, thank you for your kindness.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

MOW, what doctrine are they presenting to the concert goers? When I was in the world I had Bikers for Jesus witness to me, I thought they needed to 86 the Biker duds if they were going to be Christians. Imagine that, before Christ, before I ever walked into a Apostolic Pentecostal Church, I thought that if you were going to be a Holy Joe, you would at least not only stop cursing, drinking beer, breaking the law, but you would get rid of the outlaw look, and German helmet. Many others who rode with me shared my thoughts on the Biker Christians.




Don't you think it's winning the World with the World? The Biker's for Jesus went to all our gatherings, Daytona, Sturgis, Laconia, and Biketoberfest.
Some individuals said sinner prayers and then I was drinking with them that same night. I saw people I knew on their knees shedding tears, and reciting the sinner's prayer, but later that night they would be sharing a beer with me.
Unchanged, and unmotivated to do anything with their new found religion.

I really began to think that those dudes were doing it more for themselves then doing it for us. They would tell me that Jesus would of been an outlaw if He was walking the earth today. I thought that was smoked, Jesus would of been an outlaw, and selling dope, extorting money from dancers? I started to consider these Bikers for Jesus, a little far removed from the Christ they claimed to represent. Some of those men who shared Jesus were sincere and saw through the other guys who wanted to notch their Bibles by getting their pictures with Bikers who had their heads bowed in prayer.



Is that what it's all about? When I came to the Lord, and shaved my beard (no one told me) and got rid of my earrings (no one told me) put on a suit and pair of shoes instead of my engineer boots. Still, there were those who wanted me to focus on my past, and my tattoos. That world was behind me, and I wanted to keep it that way. I didn't want to be bearded, leather jacketed, boots and chains. I wanted to follow another leader, one who wasn't like those who notched their Bibles every time a tattooed bearded head was bowed in prayer.



I hope you get your wish, and when that happens you will end up looking just like them. I wonder what you will look like in eye shadow and ear plugs?




May the Lord bless him and lead him into all Truth.





Unconditionally? No conditions? Then no one has to be a minister in your church to preach on Sunday. I guess you also share the tithes and offerings with everyone when they first come to church. Your phone must be ringing off the hook with people wanting their lights to be turned on. You must be loaded with individuals wanting their bills paid and rent paid? I understand that you just said the unconditional thing, because you want us to think of you as some ultra-nicer-than-Jesus Preacher.

Hey do you still take tithes and offerings from your people who come to your church?

Funny how there are those who blow off standards, but they never 86 tithes and offerings. Unless they are not a preacher, or should I say the "main" preacher.



Cold shoulder from who? Come on, they should come down to Fort Lauderdale and Miami. They are mild compared to what is strolling into churches down here. They would be able to attend church at Calvary Chapel, and Coral Ridge, any of the Pentecostal churches down here without any kind of problem.




Keep us up to date on all the Goths that these two bing to your church.



The song says "come as you are" not, stay as you is.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Truth is, I really don't care what you think about it, and knew that you would have plenty to say from your side of the fence. You have every right to do as you see fit. God bless you. I'll take your criticism as a blessing. I have no need to dress like them. That is not me nor my calling. I might do it for an illustration for a message, but that is not me. I don't have to be like anyone else. I am secure in whose I am.

I would love to have 20 more just like this guy and the OB/GYN who attends as well, whom we just recently baptized. He looks and dresses like a Dr. NLC is very diverse! I do not preach that a person is saved IN their sin. I preach they are saved FROM their sin. The Christian bikers I know don't cuss, drink, smoke or carouse around. Sorry you had bad examples.