Are You Really Saved ?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Every time I read the title of this thread I think of this song...........

I'm saved and I know that I am
I'm saved and I know that I am
I'm saved and I know that I am
I'm so glad I know that I'm saved.


LOL! And we complain about repetition and simplicity of the lyrics of the new worship choruses we sing today. *roll eyes*

"I know I'm saved, and I'm so glad about it
I found the joy my spirit craves
It is so real that I could never doubt it
I'm happy now to know I'm saved"

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Chan

Even the Nicene Creed says

Sorry, you lost me here. Let's stick to God's word.

From God. There is only one "divinity" or "divine substance" and that substance belongs to God.

Out of that answer, I asked: was it a divinity separate and different from the Father?

another way to look at it is to understand the logos as the divine expression or God as He expresses Himself.

When God expressed Himself in voice, in pillar of fire, in cloud over the tabernacle, as a man to Abraham --- was that God, Chan? All of God?

You are trying to commingle Jesus' divnity with His humanity.

They can't be separated, my friend.

I did answer it: "His divinity is God's divinity; His humanity is not God."

No, you are not answering it, because you know what kind of conundrum you'll get into. IS JESUS CHRIST GOD, Chan? Yes or no, please.

You are confusing Jesus' divnity with His humanity and, in fact, are trying to mix the two together.

They can't be separated, my friend.

You appear to be suggesting the divine flesh heresy, i.e. that Jesus' humanity is itself divine.

No, I'm suggesting what scripture says: that the Lord God Almighty, YHVH, became a man. ALL of Him, not just part. Jesus Christ was not part God and part man. He was not God at one moment and man at the next. His divinity could not and cannot be separated from His humanity. THAT is the mystery (1 Timothy 3:16) and the key to opening your understanding.

Continue to make a freak out of the man, Jesus Christ. I do pray you will see this beautiful truth, Chan. I pray that all who don't see it will. That is, before it is forced upon you and them, when it will be too late.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Chan

So, you believe in the divine flesh heresy? Jesus was lying when He said He was going "to my God and to your God"?

Hi Chan,No I don't believe In divine flesh,as i pointed out before,the Son is the word of God and the divine Spirit of God is IN the flesh or In his word.So all of Jesus is God.We must understand that God is In Jesus as the Son and God is In heaven as the Father and God is in us as the Holy Ghost,One God seen in three ways.Was he not the same one God when he was seen as a burning bush ?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Chan

NO! It isn't the NAME "Jesus" that has the authority (since the Hebrew version of it "Yehoshua" is also the name of the man who led the children of Israel into the promised land), it's the particular man who was given that name, i.e. the One that was born in that manger in Bethlehem, that did miracles and taught the people, that died on the cross for our sins, and that rose again from the dead. HE has the authority, not just His name.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

Again, it's about the person having the authority. To say the authority is merely in the particular appellation turns the appellation into nothing more than a magical incantation and, thus, what one is doing is the sin of witchcraft.

You've answered your own question. Notice "the whole family in heaven and earth." The passage isn't talking about being given a surname (what we also call a last name or family name).

From GOD. Of course, you would have known that from reading the passage in context.

[B][COLOR=navy]
Meaning simply that He came in His Father's AUTHORITY!

Ok, Chan,I have heard what your teaching before.If the name Jesus connected with the Son of God for your salvation has no value,how does a person receive salvation in the word authority or name ? That makes no sence at all.I think your as bad as the trinties who satan has them not using the name Jesus because satan knows there is no salvation in no other,there is no other namd Jesus as the Son of God given under heaven where by you must be saved.Satan knows if you don't use the name you are lost,so he has you very deceived.You must believe in Jesus the Son of God for salvation.There is only One Jesus Son of God no matter how many other people has the name.If the name Jesus is not used in connection with the Son of God for your salvation for you to believe in,you have no salvation.

Originally Posted by Joelel

Ok, Chan,I have heard what your teaching before.If the name Jesus connected with the Son of God for your salvation has no value,how does a person receive salvation in the word authority or name ? That makes no sence at all.I think your as bad as the trinties who satan has them not using the name Jesus because satan knows there is no salvation in no other,there is no other namd Jesus as the Son of God given under heaven where by you must be saved.Satan knows if you don't use the name you are lost,so he has you very deceived.You must believe in Jesus the Son of God for salvation.There is only One Jesus Son of God no matter how many other people has the name.If the name Jesus is not used in connection with the Son of God for your salvation for you to believe in,you have no salvation.

What exactly is it that you think I'm teaching here?

It's about the ONE who has the name, not the name itself. Remember Joshua in the Old Testament? His name is the same as Jesus. It isn't about using the name as some sort of magical incantation (the sin of witchcraft), it's about having the authority of Jesus the Christ, God's only begotten Son. In other words, it's in the person of Jesus the Christ and not merely the appellation assigned to Him.

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Chan,No I don't believe In divine flesh,as i pointed out before,the Son is the word of God and the divine Spirit of God is IN the flesh or In his word.So all of Jesus is God.We must understand that God is In Jesus as the Son and God is In heaven as the Father and God is in us as the Holy Ghost,One God seen in three ways.Was he not the same one God when he was seen as a burning bush ?

The logos (word) was not begotten (unless you believe in a sort of figurative begetting similar to how one might beget one's thoughts and words, but I don't see evidence of that in scripture). The logos did not have a beginning. The SON, on the other hand, was begotten and, thus, had a beginning. By saying that ALL of Jesus is God is to say that Jesus' flesh is God (a form of the divine flesh heresy). The flesh can't be God because the flesh had a beginning. You are doing what the Council at Chalcedon did: commingling Jesus' divinity with His humanity, the result of which being that it was God that died on the cross, God that suffered, etc.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Chan

It's about the ONE who has the name, not the name itself. It isn't about using the name as some sort of magical incantation (the sin of witchcraft), it's about having the authority of Jesus the Christ, God's only begotten Son. In other words, it's in the person of Jesus the Christ and not merely the appellation assigned to Him.

AMEN, brother!! We finally agree!!

Now if I could get you to agree with this: the "person of Jesus Christ" is the eternal God of the OT.

Originally Posted by Chan

The logos (word) was not begotten (unless you believe in a sort of figurative begetting similar to how one might beget one's thoughts and words, but I don't see evidence of that in scripture).

True, the logos was made/became flesh. I don't see anyone saying the logos is not eternal.

The flesh can't be God because the flesh had a beginning.

God has chosen to permanently manifest Himself in the body of the man Jesus Christ. It's not the FLESH we consider God; it's the MAN we consider God. Big difference, but one you won't appreciate, so I expect objection.

Originally Posted by OGIA

AMEN, brother!! We finally agree!!

Now if I could get you to agree with this: the "person of Jesus Christ" is the eternal God of the OT.

His divinity is. His humanity is not.

True, the logos was made/became flesh. I don't see anyone saying the logos is not eternal.

But to say that the logos is itself "the Son" is to say that it is not eternal because "the Son" was begotten and, thus, had a beginning.

God has chosen to permanently manifest Himself in the body of the man Jesus Christ. It's not the FLESH we consider God; it's the MAN we consider God. Big difference, but one you won't appreciate, so I expect objection.

The MAN is the flesh. The MAN is not God. The MAN said He was going "to my God and to your God."

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Chan

His divinity is. His humanity is not.

Oh, back to the ol' "only part of the Christ was God" theory, eh?

But to say that the logos is itself "the Son" is to say that it is not eternal because "the Son" was begotten and, thus, had a beginning.

I agree. The logos was made flesh. That flesh was humanity. That humanity was a man. That man was the Son of God. That Son of God was the Almighty God. That man IS Jesus Christ.

The MAN is the flesh. The MAN is not God. The MAN said He was going "to my God and to your God."

Precisely. The MAN that God became had a God, just like you and I do. That man had/has flesh. God has/had flesh. We will see it and Him one day soon, and then the world will know why the Lord said "When you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and why "IF YOU HAD KNOWN ME, you should have known my Father also" will then apply. Let the first and don't let the last statement apply to you, Chan.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Chan

What exactly is it that you think I'm teaching here?

It's about the ONE who has the name, not the name itself. Remember Joshua in the Old Testament? His name is the same as Jesus. It isn't about using the name as some sort of magical incantation (the sin of witchcraft), it's about having the authority of Jesus the Christ, God's only begotten Son. In other words, it's in the person of Jesus the Christ and not merely the appellation assigned to Him.

OK Chan,Your teaching the name of God has no authority(power).You tell me,If you have any authority or power at all how do you know where it comes from ? How do you know who your salvation comes from if you don't know your God's name.Your authority or power may be comming from the god of this world if you don't connect him with a name.In other words you know not what god you serve.