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  #41  
Old 03-21-2008, 07:53 PM
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfette View Post
Does this mean that dresses should be worn to the ankle, not just below the knee? Also, if you think it is "OK" to wear pants, should they also be worn to the ankle? No capri style pants and no dresses just below the knee? I'm confused.
Im just posting the definitions and how the words are used during that time. Women all generally wore long dress like garments while men wore robe like garments but also wore shorter length ones (see a roman centurian)
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2008, 02:52 PM
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singrkel View Post
I guess for clarity I will explain myself. When I presented my Pastor with the hair/skirt issue, he told me that you can't use what the guy on actseighteen says because he uses the wrong translation, ie feminine and masculine. He says unless you understand the greek language, you shouldn't use strong's because you can twist things around to mean something that it's not. My husband and I are just more confused now than ever. Some people say one thing, and some people say another thing. How do I know who's got it right? If my mind can be changed from something that I once believed so strongly in, how do I know which side is right? When I used to pray or study this, it all just made sense. Now when I pray, I feel something totally different. I feel like I'm being torn in two. I just cried so hard all the way home from church last night. I keep trying not to think about this or talk about it, but I can't. I feel like I'm going to crack! My husband is a 5th generation pentecostal, and he's just as lost as I am....
These issues are not that important, sis. They are not vital issues. Major on the majors and become more concerned with following God's will and the issues of forgiveness and love and forebearance. I think the enemy gets us sidetracked by these lesser important issues.

I highly question any church that makes a person weep and cry over these issues. Something is seriously wrong with what is being made a priority.
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2008, 03:23 PM
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_PoMo View Post
Shouldn't use Strong's unless you know the Greek? Really?

I'm sorry this has been so difficult for you.
Personally I think you should know something about the greek.

I already gave this example but the word ONE in greek has masc, fem and neut genders...not only that words in greek also have case and number. All of these can affect the meaning or use of the word.

In the case of the number 1 I remember hearing Oneness preachers going to John 10:30 and declaring the greek word there is Heis and Heis means one in number only...because Strongs says so

Well I discovered that actually Strongs does not give a separate definition for Hen and Mia....what he does is give Heis and then lumps the other two under it but does not get into their definitions or how they can or are used. It can be very confusing but the greek word in John 10:30 is NOT Heis but Hen.

There are other tools to use besides Strongs and I would suggest everyone check them out. You won't have to shell out 400 for an expensive program or lexicon either.

Another old greek dictionary/lexicon is Joseph Thayers...his was actually a lexicon but they have a free dictionary version on the net you can use. Then you can look up words in something like International Standard Bible Encyclopedia which will also give the greek and hebrew and then there is Vines. Vines elaborates on where Strongs does not. Also neither one will help with pronouns and conjunctions and verbs like "is" or articles like "the"

I use Esword and for it I have all free stuff except for a paid version of the NETbible which comes with commentary and Zodhaites Greek Lexicon which is not the best but better than just using Strongs. I never paid more than 20 for either.

I have strongs, thayers, vines. I also have on it Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, which you will find a lot of others refer to.

http://books.google.com/books?id=V94...mbnail#PPP1,M1
I also have a NT greek concordance of actual greek words, not english. SO I can look at a specific word, not merely a grouping, and see where else it is used in the NT and see HOW it is used.

Here knowing a little greek or at least cheating by looking at the endings to see what the case is can help in comparisons.

For example the word LOGOS in greek is Word, thought, Idea, faculty of reasoning. Pros in greek is with but can also mean pertaining to.

Pros in Jn 1 is in the accusative I believe. Well in other examples like that it has been translated pertaining too. If you can look at the greek you can compare it to the lexicon of the accusative form and see other verses where it is also in the accusative. So some OPs have claimed in Jn 1 it should be "THe Logos was pertaining to God", rather than the Trinitarian favorite "The Logos was WITH God"..

In another case I have personally highlighted a pharisee is seen praying withIN himself (Pros) and is in the same form. And even if translated with, you still have one person not two. Pros then does not necessarily connect two persons together.

All this though is probably not necessary for personal devotion unless you are a very highly intellectual type person...not trying to put them down or those that are not that intellectual.

For me though I had to study this stuff for apologetics. In fact I am still thinking of taking extended greek classes. I don't want to spend a lot of money though since having a degree in greek isn't going to do me much lol
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  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
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  #44  
Old 03-22-2008, 03:26 PM
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singrkel View Post
I guess for clarity I will explain myself. When I presented my Pastor with the hair/skirt issue, he told me that you can't use what the guy on actseighteen says because he uses the wrong translation, ie feminine and masculine. He says unless you understand the greek language, you shouldn't use strong's because you can twist things around to mean something that it's not. My husband and I are just more confused now than ever. Some people say one thing, and some people say another thing. How do I know who's got it right? If my mind can be changed from something that I once believed so strongly in, how do I know which side is right? When I used to pray or study this, it all just made sense. Now when I pray, I feel something totally different. I feel like I'm being torn in two. I just cried so hard all the way home from church last night. I keep trying not to think about this or talk about it, but I can't. I feel like I'm going to crack! My husband is a 5th generation pentecostal, and he's just as lost as I am....
I'd have to have more information. You don't need to completely understand the greek, but you should know somethings. And you can! You can learn some things on your own. You can buy a book by Vines on learning NT greek. It is cheap, fairly easy but will not make you an expert. You can also find websites to help too.

However I don't know what you mean here by masculine and feminine...what words exactly are we speaking of? Which verse? Which translation? Which translation of what word?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #45  
Old 03-22-2008, 03:53 PM
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Im not sure which article on that page you are referring to, but the hair one....here are the definitions according to Zodhaites

Shorn
κείρω
keírō; fut. kerṓ. To shear, especially to shave the head. (Act_18:18, "having shorn his head," indicates that possibly Paul had taken a Nazarite vow, which signifies the consecration of the body to God. The fact that his head was shorn would indicate that the period of his special vow was over. It was customary at the end of the vow period to have the head shaved at the door of the tabernacle. Act_21:24 also associates the shorn head with the taking of a vow.) See 1Co_11:6, which indicates that cutting the hair very short was the custom of prostitutes so that they could be easily identified by potential customers (Sept.: 2Sa_14:26; Job_1:20; Jer_7:29). Used trans. in regard to sheep (Act_8:32 from Isa_53:7).

ξυράω
xuráō; contracted xurṓ, fut. xurḗsō, from xurón (n.f.), a razor. To shave or shear the locks or beard; in the mid. xuráomai (Act_21:24, "that they may shave their heads," meaning let them be shorn); in the pass. part. fem. exurēménē (1Co_11:5-6, "shorn" or shaven; Sept.: Gen_41:14; Num_6:9, Num_6:19).
Ant.: komáō (G2863), to let the hair grow long.

Note the last part? Komao...that is the greek word for long hair.

The thing to me here really is what does Paul have in mind by a veil or covering? Fabric or her hair?

For even if these two words can only mean shave close or bald, still Paul is saying if she will not be covered or veiled, she might as well shave it all off. Still the question many Apostolics have is with what is the veil?

The veil is either a fabric covering according to some or it is her long hair.

Some say the veil is a fabric covering but because Paul also teaches the woman should have long (Komao) hair that she should be veiled at all times with her hair but wear a special fabric veil when in church

Not the contrasts? Man is not to be covered but also is NOT to have long hair but short hair.

Woman IS to be covered AND to have long hair..

1Co 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,
1Co 11:5 but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as if her head were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
1Co 11:8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
1Co 11:10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman;
1Co 11:12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.
1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,
1Co 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
1Co 11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.

A man should not have komao hair but if a woman does it is her glory and nature teaches that her hair should be komao...he does not elaborate on that though

This is Zodhaites take
κομάω
komáō; contracted komṓ, fut. komḗsō, from kómē (G2864), hair. To have long hair (1Co_11:14-15). Paul teaches that a woman's hair ought to be different from a man's, and that a woman's hair is equivalent to a peribólaion (G4018), something that is wrapped around, a veil or mantle. From the context, it seems that the woman's hair ought to be distinct from a man's hair, not only in length, but also in ornamentation.

Vines
<B-1,Verb,2863,komao>
signifies "to let the hair grow long, to wear long hair," a glory to a woman, a dishonor to a man (as taught by nature), 1Co_11:14-15.

The NET bible commentary points out some of the arguments against the veil in the first part being the covering spoken of later
6 sn No word for veil or head covering occurs in 1Co_11:3-14 (see the note on authority in 1Co_11:10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in 1Co_11:15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. 1Co_11:10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. 1Co_11:5; 1Co_11:6; 1Co_11:7; 1Co_11:10; 1Co_11:13). If head covering = long hair, then what does 1Co_11:6 mean ("For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair")? This suggests that the covering is not the same as the hair itself.

A.T. Robertson says
Have long hair (komāi). Present active subjunctive of komaō (from komē, hair), old verb, same contraction (̇aēîāi) as the indicative (aei ̂ āi), but subjunctive here with ean in third class condition. Long hair is a glory to a woman and a disgrace to a man (as we still feel). The long-haired man! There is a papyrus example of a priest accused of letting his hair grow long and of wearing woollen garments.
For a covering (anti peribolaiou). Old word from periballō to fling around, as a mantle (Heb_1:12) or a covering or veil as here. It is not in the place of a veil, but answering to (anti, in the sense of anti in Joh_1:16), as a permanent endowment (dedotai, perfect passive indicative).

Some more info from the ISBE
If Hebrew men paid much attention to their hair, it was even more so among Hebrew women. Long black tresses were the pride of the Jewish maiden and matron (Son_7:5; Joh_11:2; 1Co_11:5, 1Co_11:6, 1Co_11:15), but many of the expressions used in connection with the “coiffures” of women do not convey to us more than a vague idea. The “locks” of the King James Version in Son_4:1, Son_4:3; Son_6:7; Isa_47:2 (צמּה, cēmmāh) probably do not refer to the hair, but should be translated (as does the Revised Version (British and American), which follows the Septuagint) by “veil.” דּלּה, dallāh (Son_7:5), signifies the slender threads which represent the unfinished web in the loom (compare Isa_38:12), and thence the flowing hair of women (the Revised Version (British and American) “hair”). רהטים, rehāṭīm (the Revised Version (British and American) “tresses”), in the same verse of the Song of Songs means literally the “gutters” at which the flocks were watered (compare Gen_30:38, Gen_30:41), and thus the long plaits of the maiden with which the lover toys and in which he is held captive. The braiding or dressing of woman's hair is expressed in 2Ki_9:30 and Judith 10:3. In New Testament times Christian women are warned against following the fashionable world in elaborate hairdressing (1Ti_2:9; 1Pe_3:3).

Eastons
4.) Among the Hebrews the natural distinction between the sexes was preserved by the women wearing long hair (Luk_7:38; Joh_11:2; 1Co_11:6), while the men preserved theirs as a rule at a moderate length by frequent clipping.
Baldness disqualified any one for the priest's office (Lev. 21).
Elijah is called a “hairy man” (2Ki_1:8) from his flowing locks, or more probably from the shaggy cloak of hair which he wore. His raiment was of camel's hair.
Long hair is especially noticed in the description of Absalom's person (2Sa_14:26); but the wearing of long hair was unusual, and was only practiced as an act of religious observance by Nazarites (Num_6:5; Jdg_13:5) and others in token of special mercies (Act_18:18).
In times of affliction the hair was cut off (Isa_3:17, Isa_3:24; Isa_15:2; Isa_22:12; Jer_7:29; Amo_8:10). Tearing the hair and letting it go disheveled were also tokens of grief (Ezr_9:3). “Cutting off the hair” is a figure of the entire destruction of a people (Isa_7:20). The Hebrews anointed the hair profusely with fragrant ointments (Rth_3:3; 2Sa_14:2; Psa_23:5; Psa_45:7, etc.), especially in seasons of rejoicing (Mat_6:17; Luk_7:46).
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #46  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:31 PM
jaxfam6 jaxfam6 is offline
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Im not sure which article on that page you are referring to, but the hair one....here are the definitions according to Zodhaites

Shorn
κείρω
keírō; fut. kerṓ. To shear, especially to shave the head. (Act_18:18, "having shorn his head," indicates that possibly Paul had taken a Nazarite vow, which signifies the consecration of the body to God. The fact that his head was shorn would indicate that the period of his special vow was over. It was customary at the end of the vow period to have the head shaved at the door of the tabernacle. Act_21:24 also associates the shorn head with the taking of a vow.) See 1Co_11:6, which indicates that cutting the hair very short was the custom of prostitutes so that they could be easily identified by potential customers (Sept.: 2Sa_14:26; Job_1:20; Jer_7:29). Used trans. in regard to sheep (Act_8:32 from Isa_53:7).

ξυράω
xuráō; contracted xurṓ, fut. xurḗsō, from xurón (n.f.), a razor. To shave or shear the locks or beard; in the mid. xuráomai (Act_21:24, "that they may shave their heads," meaning let them be shorn); in the pass. part. fem. exurēménē (1Co_11:5-6, "shorn" or shaven; Sept.: Gen_41:14; Num_6:9, Num_6:19).
Ant.: komáō (G2863), to let the hair grow long.

Note the last part? Komao...that is the greek word for long hair.

The thing to me here really is what does Paul have in mind by a veil or covering? Fabric or her hair?

For even if these two words can only mean shave close or bald, still Paul is saying if she will not be covered or veiled, she might as well shave it all off. Still the question many Apostolics have is with what is the veil?

The veil is either a fabric covering according to some or it is her long hair.

Some say the veil is a fabric covering but because Paul also teaches the woman should have long (Komao) hair that she should be veiled at all times with her hair but wear a special fabric veil when in church

Not the contrasts? Man is not to be covered but also is NOT to have long hair but short hair.

Woman IS to be covered AND to have long hair..

1Co 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,
1Co 11:5 but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as if her head were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
1Co 11:8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
1Co 11:10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman;
1Co 11:12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.
1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,
1Co 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
1Co 11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.

A man should not have komao hair but if a woman does it is her glory and nature teaches that her hair should be komao...he does not elaborate on that though

This is Zodhaites take
κομάω
komáō; contracted komṓ, fut. komḗsō, from kómē (G2864), hair. To have long hair (1Co_11:14-15). Paul teaches that a woman's hair ought to be different from a man's, and that a woman's hair is equivalent to a peribólaion (G4018), something that is wrapped around, a veil or mantle. From the context, it seems that the woman's hair ought to be distinct from a man's hair, not only in length, but also in ornamentation.

Vines
<B-1,Verb,2863,komao>
signifies "to let the hair grow long, to wear long hair," a glory to a woman, a dishonor to a man (as taught by nature), 1Co_11:14-15.

The NET bible commentary points out some of the arguments against the veil in the first part being the covering spoken of later
6 sn No word for veil or head covering occurs in 1Co_11:3-14 (see the note on authority in 1Co_11:10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in 1Co_11:15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. 1Co_11:10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. 1Co_11:5; 1Co_11:6; 1Co_11:7; 1Co_11:10; 1Co_11:13). If head covering = long hair, then what does 1Co_11:6 mean ("For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair")? This suggests that the covering is not the same as the hair itself.

A.T. Robertson says
Have long hair (komāi). Present active subjunctive of komaō (from komē, hair), old verb, same contraction (̇aēîāi) as the indicative (aei ̂ āi), but subjunctive here with ean in third class condition. Long hair is a glory to a woman and a disgrace to a man (as we still feel). The long-haired man! There is a papyrus example of a priest accused of letting his hair grow long and of wearing woollen garments.
For a covering (anti peribolaiou). Old word from periballō to fling around, as a mantle (Heb_1:12) or a covering or veil as here. It is not in the place of a veil, but answering to (anti, in the sense of anti in Joh_1:16), as a permanent endowment (dedotai, perfect passive indicative).

Some more info from the ISBE
If Hebrew men paid much attention to their hair, it was even more so among Hebrew women. Long black tresses were the pride of the Jewish maiden and matron (Son_7:5; Joh_11:2; 1Co_11:5, 1Co_11:6, 1Co_11:15), but many of the expressions used in connection with the “coiffures” of women do not convey to us more than a vague idea. The “locks” of the King James Version in Son_4:1, Son_4:3; Son_6:7; Isa_47:2 (צמּה, cēmmāh) probably do not refer to the hair, but should be translated (as does the Revised Version (British and American), which follows the Septuagint) by “veil.” דּלּה, dallāh (Son_7:5), signifies the slender threads which represent the unfinished web in the loom (compare Isa_38:12), and thence the flowing hair of women (the Revised Version (British and American) “hair”). רהטים, rehāṭīm (the Revised Version (British and American) “tresses”), in the same verse of the Song of Songs means literally the “gutters” at which the flocks were watered (compare Gen_30:38, Gen_30:41), and thus the long plaits of the maiden with which the lover toys and in which he is held captive. The braiding or dressing of woman's hair is expressed in 2Ki_9:30 and Judith 10:3. In New Testament times Christian women are warned against following the fashionable world in elaborate hairdressing (1Ti_2:9; 1Pe_3:3).

Eastons
4.) Among the Hebrews the natural distinction between the sexes was preserved by the women wearing long hair (Luk_7:38; Joh_11:2; 1Co_11:6), while the men preserved theirs as a rule at a moderate length by frequent clipping.
Baldness disqualified any one for the priest's office (Lev. 21).
Elijah is called a “hairy man” (2Ki_1:8) from his flowing locks, or more probably from the shaggy cloak of hair which he wore. His raiment was of camel's hair.
Long hair is especially noticed in the description of Absalom's person (2Sa_14:26); but the wearing of long hair was unusual, and was only practiced as an act of religious observance by Nazarites (Num_6:5; Jdg_13:5) and others in token of special mercies (Act_18:18).
In times of affliction the hair was cut off (Isa_3:17, Isa_3:24; Isa_15:2; Isa_22:12; Jer_7:29; Amo_8:10). Tearing the hair and letting it go disheveled were also tokens of grief (Ezr_9:3). “Cutting off the hair” is a figure of the entire destruction of a people (Isa_7:20). The Hebrews anointed the hair profusely with fragrant ointments (Rth_3:3; 2Sa_14:2; Psa_23:5; Psa_45:7, etc.), especially in seasons of rejoicing (Mat_6:17; Luk_7:46).
I do not know which is scarier the fact that I actually read all that or the fact that I actually followed it and understood. Then again I have studied this particular subject in the past.
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:34 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxfam6 View Post
I do not know which is scarier the fact that I actually read all that or the fact that I actually followed it and understood. Then again I have studied this particular subject in the past.
Well if you understood it you must be a greek scholar
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  #48  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:35 PM
jaxfam6 jaxfam6 is offline
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

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Originally Posted by jaxfam6 View Post
I do not know which is scarier the fact that I actually read all that or the fact that I actually followed it and understood. Then again I have studied this particular subject in the past.
I don't know about that. When I first studied it this is what I looked like.
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:53 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

My personal view is that Paul teaches women are to have long hair and that means they are to let it grow to as long as they can get it....my other question is if there is no difference between shorn or shaven (the greek words), why be redundant. The greek for shaven means literally a razer.....

So could it be that Paul is teaching to be close shaven is a shame and in fact you should not even cut your hair (the razer)?

Or is he teaching that it is a shame to have short hair and in fact she should let her hair grow long (but not necessarily never trim it)?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


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  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Singrkel Singrkel is offline
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Re: Masculine or Feminine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I'd have to have more information. You don't need to completely understand the greek, but you should know somethings. And you can! You can learn some things on your own. You can buy a book by Vines on learning NT greek. It is cheap, fairly easy but will not make you an expert. You can also find websites to help too.

However I don't know what you mean here by masculine and feminine...what words exactly are we speaking of? Which verse? Which translation? Which translation of what word?
Well, he was just saying that some of the things that Jason Young was saying wasn't true because he wasn't using the right translation. He really didn't elaborate on it much, other than saying that there are masculine and feminine versions of the words and Jason didn't use the right ones. Like I said, he plans on opening up a bible study once a month on a Wed. to specifically address this issue, so I suppose he will elaborate more on this then. He really didn't give me anything concrete, other than he says he has proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible is referring to uncut hair and skirts. However, through the grapevine I heard another couple went and talked to him someone in the leadership, and he said with tears in his eyes Pastor said that he doesn't want to put anything on us that isn't necessary because he knows that this
christian walk is already hard enough, but he feels like it's there and it is necessary.
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