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  #1  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:44 PM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
The plight of the liberal is freedom. Who knows if or when one is a liberal, or whether or not they are acting liberal? The point is that they are with us; this plight is with us. It is with us as much as they are with us. Since the Fall in the Garden liberalism has been de-constructing what God originally designed and intended. Liberal thought is basically a thought pattern or intent to liberate man from certain standards or restrictions thereby increasing a sense of freedom. In some sense freedom is necessary for Truth to survive and become known.

For example, truth is the relationship between our thoughts and reality. If I called a friend and told him that I posted a particular thread on this forum and that, later, I wanted him to read that thread. My friend would only have my word and his thoughts until he got to his computer and went to JP and saw the reality. The reality that I indeed did post a particular thread. Truth is the relationship between thoughts and reality. Freedom then enables us to know truth. Thankfully we know the Truth of God's Word today because of freedom that we enjoy. Freedom that liberal thinking people took from tyranny. Liberal then is a bit relative.

The issue becomes absurd and confusing when freedom is conceived of as self-autonomy. Liberty without order is not liberty but soon to be infringement upon another person's freedom. In fact, to have liberty you must be willing to give it to others.



Those who overtly seek freedom from laws can become lawless and no longer be free. Their liberating conquest is now an enemy unto themselves and has bound them to the consequences of aloneness and self-governance. When one's liberties, like those of terrorism, begin to embark upon the liberties and freedoms of others then order must destroy that liberty to survive. There is and will always be a thin line between freedom and order; freedom and authority.

Voltaire once said, "man is free at the moment he wishes to be." In some sense this is true, yet man only becomes free from one taskmaster to become property of another.

Adam and Eve realized after the Fall that they could not hide from God within the leaves and cover of the Garden of Eden. God indeed found them. Now man seeks to hide within himself. Man, inwardly, is constantly wishing and wanting to be free from constraint...to be self-autonomous. In fact, in large part this is the plight of the atheist too. He does not want a God over him.

No human will be without the struggle of flesh and spirit. No human will find true happiness and contentment without following after God and yielding control to His Holy Spirit. Man cannot find Eden on His own. Eden is no longer a place on the map, it is a relationship with God.



Galatians 5 speaks of our freedom in Christ and to not turn to the yokes of slavery. Yet we must hold such words in contrast to vs. 24. Paul says we "belong" to Christ. Just three chapters earlier Paul stated:



No we are not slaves to this world, but we have indeed chosen to crucify ourselves. To die and then live again as Christ lives in us. We BELONG to Christ. Having it "your way" may work for fast-food but it does not work for the Apostolic lifestyle. We are in a race and in such a race let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. We must endure and finish the race. Sin will cause us to miss this mark.

Everyday man is in a battle with his humanity. In fact, humanity may once again, take control, reach its pinnacle and bring human thought and intellect back to its darkest times. When one tends toward liberalism, indeed if one ever feels the need for this plight, he should ask himself four questions.

1. Am I attempting to make more room for my flesh to glory?
2. How much room have I made to glorify God lately?
3. Will this liberty prove too heavy for me in this race?
4. Who is in control here? Me or God.

That is just psychobabble
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:48 PM
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JN Anderson JN Anderson is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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That is just psychobabble
If you'll hurry, I'll be glad to show you how it is not. First, I need you to show me why you believe otherwise. Can you manage?
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:24 PM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Exclamation Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
If you'll hurry, I'll be glad to show you how it is not. First, I need you to show me why you believe otherwise. Can you manage?

Not if you are looking for a fight or being condescending which is what I perceive about this.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:51 AM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Rhoni View Post
Not if you are looking for a fight or being condescending which is what I perceive about this.
Rhoni, I think you should know better. Don't shift here. Be still. If you would have read my post fully you would have understood my point better, instead you say it is psychobabble. I think I was trying to divert your jab to get to the point. So, stop swinging and answer this, where's the psychobabble?
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:57 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Rhoni View Post
That is just psychobabble
help me out somebody. am I the only one here who sees irony?
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:45 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Dan, if I was your enemy I would never be able to share anything of value with you most likely. If I am your friend we can at least dialogue. Friends have differences and I see there are a few between me and you. When you say that you know a thing, there is also how do you know what you know? If our epistemology is liberally centered, as yours must be since you take offense to my usage, then we will come to know certain things accordingly. However, we should be willing to temper ourselves and be guided as we are "coming to know" more each day.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:48 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
Dan, if I was your enemy I would never be able to share anything of value with you most likely. If I am your friend we can at least dialogue. Friends have differences and I see there are a few between me and you. When you say that you know a thing, there is also how do you know what you know? If our epistemology is liberally centered, as yours must be since you take offense to my usage, then we will come to know certain things accordingly. However, we should be willing to temper ourselves and be guided as we are "coming to know" more each day.
There are differences that I am willing to overlook ... how about you? Friends?

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Old 07-07-2008, 03:50 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
There are differences that I am willing to overlook ... how about you? Friends?

Is dialogue all about ignoring differences? Or is it learning to deal with them in some way?
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:52 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Is dialogue all about ignoring differences? Or is it learning to deal with them in some way?
Maybe a dab of both ...
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:46 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Well Rhoni ... you just didn't get it ...
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