Jesus forsaken? - Page 5

Praxeas · #1 01-24-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?

If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.

How can His deity leave His humanity? That goes against everything theological about him being God...Adoptionism in reverse

mfblume · #2 01-24-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How can His deity leave His humanity? That goes against everything theological about him being God...Adoptionism in reverse

Read my words more carefully. I said Deity did not physically leave Him.

Evang.Benincasa · #3 01-24-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Read my words more carefully. I said Deity did not physically leave Him.

Ok, what are you saying when you say spiritually separated?

Evang.Benincasa · #4 01-24-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?

If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.

I think we are missing your meaning because of what you're saying in the above. Please look closely.

Brother Blume, what you are trying to say above is doublespeak, it doesn't make sense.

Evang.Benincasa · #5 01-24-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?

What are you saying? When you say "comfort" are you speaking of the one who gives the comfort, as in "The Comforter?"

mfblume · #6 01-24-2009, 05:51 PM

Jesus was God and man at the same time. He is the only God there ever was. Deity was inside Him because His very person is God. But His soul and body were human. The deity in Christ withdrew the INFLUENCE of comfort to the human soul. The deity remained in Him, though. He never ceased being God. But the influence of the comfort of His deity was withdrawn from the humanity. His humanity was actually feeling forsaken. He was not quoting scripture as though what He said was not true of Him. He was not pretending when He cried this cry forth. But it was not as though the Spirit of God left that body to leave Him solely human. That is not possible. I already said He was always trhe fullness of the Godhead bodily.

He never ceased being God manifest in flesh. It's just that the INFLUENCE of the Deity UPON the human soul was pulled away, while the Deity remained in that Body.

Evang.Benincasa · #7 01-24-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Jesus was God and man at the same time. He is the only God there ever was. Deity was inside Him because His very person is God. But His soul and body were human. The deity in Christ withdrew the INFLUENCE of comfort to the human soul. The deity remained in Him, though. He never ceased being God. But the influence of the comfort of His deity was withdrawn from the humanity. His humanity was actually feeling forsaken. He was not quoting scripture as though what He said was not true of Him. He was not pretending when He cried this cry forth. But it was not as though the Spirit of God left that body to leave Him solely human. That is not possible. I already said He was always trhe fullness of the Godhead bodily.

He never ceased being God manifest in flesh. It's just that the INFLUENCE of the Deity UPON the human soul was pulled away, while the Deity remained in that Body.

So when you say that Jesus cried out, what are you saying?

Maybe this would be a good time for you to lay some Word on us.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

mfblume · #8 01-24-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So when you say that Jesus cried out, what are you saying?

Maybe this would be a good time for you to lay some Word on us.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I was saying He suffered.

Hebrews 5:7-10 KJV Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; (9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (10) Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Part of that crying forth is noted here in Hebrews 5, as well as the Garden crying.

His crying was His humanity actually suffering.

Evang.Benincasa · #9 01-24-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?

If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I was saying He suffered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

You offered us Hebrews 5:7-10, and the scripture says in the days, "plural" of His flesh. Then are you saying that Jesus was "abandoned by all support of His deity, without comfort whatsoever," prior to the cross?
Are you saying that your teaching that Jesus died spiritually, happened over the course of time, as in the "days" of His flesh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hebrews 5:7-10 KJV Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; (9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (10) Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Part of that crying forth is noted here in Hebrews 5, as well as the Garden crying.

Brother Blume, are you saying that Jesus' garden prayer, His meeting with the High Priest, Herod, Pilate and the walk to Golgotha He was being abandoned by all support of His deity, without comfort whatsoever? Jesus is the Garden, all the way to His physical death on the cross was Jesus spiritually dying?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

His crying was His humanity actually suffering.

What does that mean?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

rava61 · #10 01-24-2009, 10:56 PM

Hey, I'm just glad He did it for us you know - without that sacrifice we would not have a chance; but because of what He did, the door was opened to the whole world (which was really the initial plan from the beginning).

Don't forget to check out my video on Youtube.com - The Singing Chaplain.

RV