Is Father a name?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Actually no Praxeas, Isaiah 9:6 is speaking of the SON; 'a Son is given' and it then states that the name of this Son who is given is Father!

YOu didn't read what I said appearently. I never said this is not speaking of the Son. I never said it says a father is given. Dialog with you is so tedious when you persist in rewording and reinterpreting everything we say

Originally Posted by Praxeas

YOu didn't read what I said appearently. I never said this is not speaking of the Son. I never said it says a father is given. Dialog with you is so tedious when you persist in rewording and reinterpreting everything we say

OK who then is given at Isaiah 9:6; is it the Father or the Son?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

OK who then is given at Isaiah 9:6; is it the Father or the Son?

The Son is Given and HIS NAME shall be called "Wonderful Counselor,Mighty God, Everlasting Father,Prince of Peace"

I never said otherwise

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

In our 21st Century Western Culture the title 'Father' is not a name. However, we have to try to instead understand the Bible within the cultural context in which it was written, which is first century and Jewish for the New Testament. So God being sovereign, can and sometimes does take words which we wouldn't normally as accept as 'proper names' as his name, for instance the verb; 'to be' in the first person singular continuous tense is used as a proper name at Exodus 3:14-15. Moses asked God what his name is, and the reply is;'I AM THAT I AM. Now in our culture that's crazy as this is a verb and not a proper name. However, God is sovereign and if he chooses to take this as his name, then he's free to do so, by the way the name Yahweh (Jehovah) is a derivation of 'I AM THAT I AM,' so to reject the former as Gods name is to consequently reject the latter.

The Roman Emperor took a mere title; Caesar, which means King or ruler and then choose for many generations to use this as a proper name. But hey it was his choice and we have no right to point the finger from our 21st century Western standpoint and then demand that Caesar isn’t a proper name but is a title. It was a title, but the Emperor choose to use it as a proper name.

The same is true with regard to the names ‘Father’ and ‘Son,’ I agree heartily that these in our culture are titles and not names. However, God has chosen to adopt these titles as his own names, and being God who are we, mere mortals to tell him that we can’t do this because it disagrees with our shallow and highly literalised Oneness Pentecostal theology. At Luke 11:2 the Lord’s prayer tells us that Father is his name, we never read here; ‘Our father which art in heaven hallowed be thy title,’ which we should read if Father were a title.

Furthermore, throughout the Old Testament, many other people used the designation ‘father’ as a part of their names; As an example of a few Hebrew constructs; ‘abi-asaph’ (2nd Samuel 23:21), literally reads the ‘father of strength,’ and thus means a strong man. ‘Abi-tub’ (1st Chronicles 8:8-11), literally reads, ‘the father of goodness’ and so means one who is good. ‘Abi-el’ (1st Samuel 9:1) means the ‘father of God’, and so implies that he was a Godly man. You see if you don’t attempt to try to understand the Bible within the cultural context in which it was written, then you’ll end up forcing your 21st century literalised American views upon the text of Scripture.

Finally, at Hebrews 1:4; “having become so much better than the angels, as He has obtained a more excellent name than they” (Hebrews 1:4, NKJV), Jesus Christ inherits a name which signifies his position as the father’s heir! What is this name, well the next verse (Hebrews 1:5, quoting Psalm 2:7) tells us that this name is SON. So please let’s lay aside the temptation to point the finger at God and to tell him what he must call himself, in accordance with our own predetermined theology, God is sovereign and we should be humble enough to be teachable.

What shallow trinitarian would come up with a notion that "Father" is a name?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Father is not a proper name. YHWH is God's name in the OT. Jesus, a derivative of YHWH. is God's name in the NT. Jesus came in his Father's name, which is not Father. Noone called Jesus, Father.

The more excellent name, the name above all names, even all divine names of God, is Jesus.

Read this: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=89

exactly

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

if yahweh wishes to call himself 'Father' who are you to tell him that he can't do this Mizpeh? Jesus himself told us that Father is a name and not a title at Luke 11:2; 'Our FATHER which art in heaven hallowed be thy NAME.'

Seems to me He was addressing God, sometimes when I'm in prayer, I'll call him father. If I'm praying for someone, I do not say "in the name of the father", I say "in the name of Jesus!"

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Well Ogia, I believe that All of us should be humble and teachable, myself included. Sadly many people approach the Bible with a pre-determined set of beleifs which they are never prepaired to allow to be challenged. It's not just most Oneness folk who have this attitude most Trinitarians and almost all JWs and Mormons also refuse to think things out for themselves. I guess at the end of the day it's all about Prayer and to that end, I'll remember the names of a few folk more diligently in prayer.

I have read many of your posts, and you come here with a pre-detemined idea to teach us, and not to be taught. It reeks with contempt in how you present your trinitarian ideas and arguments. I'll be honest with you, it seems that your thoughts are well articulated for the most part, however, you are biased.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Sister Phyllis

Sometimes I use this little illustration .

I am a mother, a wife and a grandmother but my name is Phyllis. If I go to the bank to cash a check I have to sign that check. The bank will not allow me to sign it as mother, or wife , or grandmother I have to use my right name which is Phylls or they wont cash the check.

It is the same with salvation We cant get saved in any other name then Jesus. We have to apply God's right name to us and we do that by being bapized in the name of Jesus not in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost formular. God's name is Jesus .

I know this is a simple illustration but it makes sense to me .

God bless
sister phyllis

Sometimes even the simplest explanations do no good. I appreciate your post Sis, and I understand what you are saying. I'm sorry he doesn't.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Hello Phyllis, your illustration breaks down in that the Bible tells us that God chooses to use the titles; 'Father' and 'Son' as names at Luke 11:2 and Hebrews 1:4. Throughout the NT Father and Son are used a proper names and not as mere titles, I think that we have to accept what God has chosen, even if we don't like it - he uses Father and Son as personal names.

Does he????? Tell me, what kind of logic is that?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

The text of Luke 11:2 doesn't say; 'Our Father what is your name,' instead it states that Father IS his name.

'Our Father which art in heaven Hallowed be thy NAME.'

How is this verse declaring that Father is Gods name?????