Bill Clinton Loses Temper, Lashes Out at Pro-Lifer

[Ferd]

Chris keeps saying it. I still dont see it.

A democrat that opposes abortion is about as useful as a football bat.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Chris keeps saying it. I still dont see it.

A democrat that opposes abortion is about as useful as a football bat.

The Republican measures to limit Partial Birth abortions couldn't have been passed without the support of Pro-Life Democrats.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Chris keeps saying it. I still dont see it.

A democrat that opposes abortion is about as useful as a football bat.

02/10/2008 Pro-Life Democrats Praised in Tennessee
http://www.lifenews.com/state2847.html

1/22/2008 - Pro-Life MN House Members Intdroduce Pregnant Women and Parent Support Act
http://www.democratsforlife.org/inde...d=319&Itemid=2

State Representative Mary Ellen Otremba
State Representative Patti FritzState Representative Al DotyNews Release Contact: Charlene BrinerMinnesota House of Representatives (651) 296-5809District 11B (651) 296-3201 charlene.briner@house.mn 445 State Office Building, St. Paul, MN 55155 January 22, 2008 PRO-LIFE DFL HOUSE MEMBERS INTRODUCE PREGNANT WOMENT AND PARENT SUPPORT ACT A group of pro-life DFL House members unveiled a package of legislative proposals today that offers a concrete set of practical solutions to the challenges Minnesota women experience when faced with an unplanned pregnancy.Called the "Pregnant Women and Parent Support Act," the legislation encourages and supports a woman’s decision to have a child by removing some of the economic hardships faced by new parents."So often today, women are forced to make an agonizing choice between moral suffering and economic hardship," said Representative Mary Ellen Otremba (DFL-Long Prairie). "These proposals offer common ground to legislators and Minnesotans from all points of view that will result in more women choosing life for their unborn child."Among the proposals are several provisions that offer assistance with economic hardships imposed by restrictive health insurance policies, including:

* Eliminating health insurance waiting periods for maternity benefits, children's health supervision, and prenatal care services;
* Stopping pre-existing condition discrimination on the basis of pregnancy;
* Preventing insurance companies from penalizing pregnant women to ensure a woman feels able and free to choose life.

A grant program for parenting supports to assist college students in creating healthy and strong families is also included. "College students who find themselves facing an unplanned pregnancy shouldn't have to decide between having a child or completing their education," said Representative Pattie Fritz, (DFL-Faribault). "This legislation offers students a way to do both, through practical support on parenting, encouragement, and most importantly, on-campus childcare services."The bill also supports and encourages adoption through a $1,000 tax credit for adoption-related expenses and requires improved adoption referral information. Other provisions include:

* Provisions for clear and unbiased information concerning alpha-fetoprotein tests (used primarily to determine the presence/severity of birth defects)
* Provisions for clear and unbiased information regarding adoption options
* Creates a new toll-free support number to ensure there is a list of support resources available for first-time parents who choose to carry their child to term – including those new parents lacking access to the Internet.
* State matching funds for the Women Infant Children (WIC) program, which offers nutritious foods, nutrition education and access to health care for low-income pregnant women.

"There are many great parts in this bill that could stand on their own, " said Representative Al Doty (DFL-Royalton). "Taken together, they should go a long way in easing many of the problems a woman currently faces when she is choosing life after an unplanned pregnancy.”-30-
Last Updated ( Jan 31, 2008 at 01:54 PM )

Only a Republican would play partisan politics with the lives of the unborn and disregard Democratic measures that are on the side of life.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Chris keeps saying it. I still dont see it.

A democrat that opposes abortion is about as useful as a football bat.

FERD, there are plenty of Republicans these days that are pro abortion too did you know that ?? CA. governor is one of them, Romney was too until he decided to run for President.

I will agree with one thing, it is disheartening that so many posters here who claim to be saved are Pro Death. unbelievable !

[ChristopherHall]

Here's a passage that has always disturbed me. When a woman is suspected of being unfaithful she is to undergo a trial by ordeal. Here is a more dynamic translation of the ordeal....

" 21 “At this point the priest must put the woman under oath by saying, ‘May the people know that the Lord’s curse is upon you when he makes you infertile, causing your womb to shrivel[d] and your abdomen to swell. 22 Now may this water that brings the curse enter your body and cause your abdomen to swell and your womb to shrivel.[e]’ And the woman will be required to say, ‘Yes, let it be so.’ 23 And the priest will write these curses on a piece of leather and wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He will make the woman drink the bitter water that brings on the curse. When the water enters her body, it will cause bitter suffering if she is guilty.

25 “The priest will take the jealousy offering from the woman’s hand, lift it up before the Lord, and carry it to the altar. 26 He will take a handful of the flour as a token portion and burn it on the altar, and he will require the woman to drink the water. 27 If she has defiled herself by being unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings on the curse will cause bitter suffering. Her abdomen will swell and her womb will shrink [f], and her name will become a curse among her people. 28 But if she has not defiled herself and is pure, then she will be unharmed and will still be able to have children." - Numbers 5:25-28 (NLT)

The obvious implication is that she would be left barren. However some rabbis have written that the purpose of the woman's womb shriveling under the judgment of God was twofold. First, to destroy the unborn seed resulting from her sin. And second, to render her barren.

That's always bothered me.

What are some of your thoughts on this?

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Here's a passage that has always disturbed me. When a woman is suspected of being unfaithful she is to undergo a trial by ordeal. Here is a more dynamic translation of the ordeal....

" 21 “At this point the priest must put the woman under oath by saying, ‘May the people know that the Lord’s curse is upon you when he makes you infertile, causing your womb to shrivel[d] and your abdomen to swell. 22 Now may this water that brings the curse enter your body and cause your abdomen to swell and your womb to shrivel.[e]’ And the woman will be required to say, ‘Yes, let it be so.’ 23 And the priest will write these curses on a piece of leather and wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He will make the woman drink the bitter water that brings on the curse. When the water enters her body, it will cause bitter suffering if she is guilty.

25 “The priest will take the jealousy offering from the woman’s hand, lift it up before the Lord, and carry it to the altar. 26 He will take a handful of the flour as a token portion and burn it on the altar, and he will require the woman to drink the water. 27 If she has defiled herself by being unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings on the curse will cause bitter suffering. Her abdomen will swell and her womb will shrink [f], and her name will become a curse among her people. 28 But if she has not defiled herself and is pure, then she will be unharmed and will still be able to have children." - Numbers 5:25-28 (NLT)

The obvious implication is that she would be left barren. However some rabbis have written that the purpose of the woman's womb shriveling under the judgment of God was twofold. First, to destroy the unborn seed resulting from her sin. And second, to render her barren.

That's always bothered me.

What are some of your thoughts on this?

Chris, would you mind starting a new thread on this?

I'm asking because I'm afraid it will get lost on this thread, and I also don't see how it has relevance to the topic here.

But I would like to know where you are going with the above post.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Chris, would you mind starting a new thread on this?

I'm asking because I'm afraid it will get lost on this thread, and I also don't see how it has relevance to the topic here.

But I would like to know where you are going with the above post.

It was just a passage that bothered me when researching the topic of the unborn in the Bible. The term "the curse" is speaking of vaginal bleeding as is seen with menstruation. The term "thigh to rot" in the King James is better translated out of the Hebrew as being, "uterus to drop", or "womb to discharge", indicating miscarriage. Since there is absolutely no consideration for the adulteress should she be pregnant, rabbis who offered commentary indicated that it would appear that God would destroy the unborn of the sinful union as well as rendering the woman barren.

The other point they made is how the law required a death sentence for an adulteress, without exception, even if she were pregnant. There appears to be only one consideration for the right of the unborn and that is found in Exodus,

"22If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life," - Exodus 21:22-23

However in the above passage the issue isn't abortion, it's the negligent killing of a woman and/or her unborn child by men in physical confrontation. For example if in the midst of a robbery a woman is injured and looses her child the perpetrator(s) are to be charged with murder.

It all just bothered me.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

It was just a passage that bothered me when researching the topic of the unborn in the Bible. The term "the curse" is speaking of vaginal bleeding as is seen with menstruation. The term "thigh to rot" in the King James is better translated out of the Hebrew as being, "uterus to drop", or "womb to discharge", indicating miscarriage. Since there is absolutely no consideration for the adulteress should she be pregnant, rabbis who offered commentary indicated that it would appear that God would destroy the unborn of the sinful union as well as rendering the woman barren.

The other point they made is how the law required a death sentence for an adulteress, without exception, even if she were pregnant. There appears to be only one consideration for the right of the unborn and that is found in Exodus,

"22If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life," - Exodus 21:22-23

However in the above passage the issue isn't abortion, it's the negligent killing of a woman and/or her unborn child by men in physical confrontation.

It all just bothered me.

Christopher, there are places in scripture where God pronounced lethal judgment on everyone, children included, yet there are still prohibitions from His Word against murder. Is that equally contradictory or bothersome?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Christopher, there are places in scripture where God pronounced lethal judgment on everyone, children included, yet there are still prohibitions from His Word against murder. Is that equally contradictory or bothersome?

I don't think it's contradictory. I just found it disturbing. I couldn't imagine ordering a woman to drink something that would cause her to begin bleeding and her womb to discharge under the judgment of God should she be guilty of adultery. In my mind's eye I could see blood and a fetus dropping on the floor of the temple while she wailed in agony. It just bothered me. Thank God for the blood of Jesus.