Tithing…Is it a command?

[good samaritan]

=KeptByTheWord;1336769]Good Samaritan: Church is not to be run as a business. We are talking about the kingdom of heaven, not the kingdoms of man. So all your reasoning above simply applies as to how you would logically run a business.

Just for the record I don't teach tithing as a mandate and I don't teach a lot on financial giving although I may should more than what I do. As far as running the church building and operation like a business, I do. When the utilities come in I pay them, I advertise the church through flyers and business cards, and I try to plan things in advance. I do this in order to promote the heavenly kingdom in and outside of our local church building. God will move where I can't, but He doesn't expect for me to just sit by and wait for Him to do everything. Bro. Mueller had sometime expressed the needs of that orphanage in order for the community to reach out to it.

And... you provided no scriptural basis either, I might add.

Scriptural basis for what? I was not making a mandate you must tithe. I was simply suggesting a good system that works well. A system that is used in the OT which is a scriptural basis, but was set up in a totally different economy. An again I wasn't mandating it.

You might read up on this man by following link below... who certainly didn't follow logical business practices to do the Lord's will, and he left an incredible legacy behind him.

http://www.christianity.com/church/c...-11634869.html

Enjoyed the read and I don't disagree with the method. but I do believe I reserve the right to make suggestions and Paul too spoke by permission and not commandment. .

1 Cor.7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I

I see so many people trying to push on others to be the perfect example of how they believe the NT believers operated, but I don't see many people practicing what they preach.

Paul forsook all and went from place to place by the prompting of the Spirit, but do you?
The early church followers also sold everything they had and gave it to the collective church body, do you?

I never talk finances in a setting where sinners are present. I do teach straight from the scripture to born again believers when I feel like that is what God is prompting me to each on. I believe that teaching to be: weekly Spirit led giving as God has prospered. I bring tithes out as historically a good system and make my recommendations, but respect how others feel. In the end they will answer to God for whether or not they were led by His Spirit. It isn't for personal gain, but for the kingdom of God.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Just for the record I don't teach tithing as a mandate and I don't teach a lot on financial giving although I may should more than what I do. As far as running the church building and operation like a business, I do. When the utilities come in I pay them, I advertise the church through flyers and business cards, and I try to plan things in advance. I do this in order to promote the heavenly kingdom in and outside of our local church building. God will move where I can't, but He doesn't expect for me to just sit by and wait for Him to do everything. Bro. Mueller had sometime expressed the needs of that orphanage in order for the community to reach out to it.

I know that from your posts, you appear to be teaching giving closer to the NT principle than most who believe in tithing. And I really respect that! We are to be good stewards, and being a good steward indeed means paying your bills, and certainly Jesus taught that what belongs to Cesar should be your responsibility to make sure that gets paid to Cesar.

But, what I meant by the church not being a business, is that business decisions are based on monetary success generally. The more money coming in, the better things are. And this is where the church does not operate like a business. The more money one pays in should not make them more "worthy" or of higher esteem, but we all know it does. The higher tithe payers get more recognition than those who don't have much to contribute. This is where running a church like a business goes off track. Those who make more, pay more, receive more recognition, and position. Those who make less, and have little to offer, are often shoved off to the side in the rush to take the church to the top of the numbers and dollar ladder.

For the record, I am not against using 10% as a measuring stick whereby you give. But a far better one, is to give as the Lord has blessed and prospered you. Maybe one week you have much more to give and are far able to surpass the 10%, but the following week you may not be able to give as much. This is why the 10% mandate should never have been instituted, but it was instituted to bring about a certain amount of income to the church coffers.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Scriptural basis for what? I was not making a mandate you must tithe. I was simply suggesting a good system that works well. A system that is used in the OT which is a scriptural basis, but was set up in a totally different economy. An again I wasn't mandating it.

There is no NT scriptural support for or against 10% tithing, because it wasn't even in the NT radar, and didn't happen until 300 years later with the Catholics. What the NT church understood was sacrificial giving, and this is where it should still be today. They knew that the tithing system, along with all the other offerings that went to the temple had ceased with the death and resurrection of Jesus, and now instead of various and sundry methods demanded for giving in the OT, they understood giving to be as the Lord had prospered you, to give first to one another, and then to the work of the Lord. Certainly, nowhere in the NT can you find ANYTHING close to the mandated 10% tithing structure taught today.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Enjoyed the read and I don't disagree with the method. but I do believe I reserve the right to make suggestions and Paul too spoke by permission and not commandment.

1 Cor.7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I

I see so many people trying to push on others to be the perfect example of how they believe the NT believers operated, but I don't see many people practicing what they preach.

Paul forsook all and went from place to place by the prompting of the Spirit, but do you?
The early church followers also sold everything they had and gave it to the collective church body, do you?

We are doing our best to live as closely to the NT model of church as we can. We meet in a home fellowship with elders as our leaders. We give to each other, and to other charities in our community as the Lord prospers us. We support and help family members, our fellow fellowship families, and other people who we know are struggling. We don't have a set percentage to give, but giving is a way of life for us. Giving is a blessing for us, we do it not because someone tells us we have to, but because we love the Lord enough to give to those in need as He has prospered us.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I never talk finances in a setting where sinners are present. I do teach straight from the scripture to born again believers when I feel like that is what God is prompting me to each on. I believe that teaching to be: weekly Spirit led giving as God has prospered. I bring tithes out as historically a good system and make my recommendations, but respect how others feel. In the end they will answer to God for whether or not they were led by His Spirit. It isn't for personal gain, but for the kingdom of God.

I am so glad to hear that you teach giving as the Lord has prospered you. I do believe the Lord will bless your efforts in the kingdom by taking this step of faith. God Bless You and the work for His kingdom!

[Originalist]

I wonder if someone who has 1800 a month in GENUINE expenses, but only makes 1200 a month currently, and never takes his family even to the park to save gas, and couldn't afford to celebrate his wife and daughter's birthday would be considered "greedy" by the tithe teachers.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I wonder if someone who has 1800 a month in GENUINE expenses, but only makes 1200 a month currently, and never takes his family even to the park to save gas, and couldn't afford to celebrate his wife and daughter's birthday would be considered "greedy" by the tithe teachers.

One faithful brother of a Local church in our area was run off by a jealous pastor for buying a camper for his family to do events...(Pastor said... "could have been used for the worka God")

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Sean

One preacher of one of our mega churches told the saints to try tithing on what you want to make(think of the implications).

What a joke....

heard it, done it, and may have even taught it...

[Rudy]

Now what do we do?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Now what do we do?

Just keep spreading the "good news" that tithing is not a New Testament doctrine for the saints to endure.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Sean

Just keep spreading the "good news" that tithing is not a New Testament doctrine for the saints to endure.

They will pressure them until they leave or be lead out by their ear. If we remove their support system they will need an alternative.

[good samaritan]

For you pro-tithes people, if a member does not have their tithes this month, can they pay it by cutting the grass or something else?

I don't think you can actually say you pay your tithes by mowing the church yard. To tithe means to give a tenth of something. If you have spent all your money including the tenth part then the tithe is gone. I do think though if I were on hard times and and couldn't financially support my family not to mention pay tithes I personally would want to try to give in another way like you mentioned. There was a time a while back that I got in some financial hardship and my pastor knew of my hardship and gave me odd jobs around the church for payment and the church helped me get through the hard time.

I tithed before my hardship and during my hardship and the church helped me also. You can speak so negatively about tithing, but if you don't support your local church weekly, generously, and as the Lord has prospered you it is wrong. And the NT does say for us to do that.(may not say tithing but it is a similar concept).

Do you really think most pastors are after a poor family's maybe $100 a month. I sincerely believe most teach to tithe because they feel it will bless the giver and giving is at the core of our salvation. Jesus gave His life for you and I. If you feel like you attend a greedy church find another one. If giving is that big and issue with people they may need to do an inventory of their own heart. Whether or not tithing is a salvation issue or not I have never met anyone who couldn't do it. It is a simple process if you get $1 dollar give ten cents before you spend it.

If you feel like tithing isn't for today you still have to answer for all the other NT testament teaching on giving. If you are being led by the Spirit of God in everything you do I don't believe you'll have to worry about a thing. Ten percent is easy for most people who love to give no matter their financial status. Matter of fact sometimes givers have to be careful that they don't get too carried away and forget to provide for their families.

I do think it is the heart that God is looking at and not just the number 10. Problem is that people can't see the heart so a lot of times they judge by the number.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't think you can actually say you pay your tithes by mowing the church yard. To tithe means to give a tenth of something. If you have spent all your money including the tenth part then the tithe is gone. I do think though if I were on hard times and and couldn't financially support my family not to mention pay tithes I personally would want to try to give in another way like you mentioned. There was a time a while back that I got in some financial hardship and my pastor knew of my hardship and gave me odd jobs around the church for payment and the church helped me get through the hard time.

I tithed before my hardship and during my hardship and the church helped me also. You can speak so negatively about tithing, but if you don't support your local church weekly, generously, and as the Lord has prospered you it is wrong. And the NT does say for us to do that.(may not say tithing but it is a similar concept).
Do you really think most pastors are after a poor family's maybe $100 a month. I sincerely believe most teach to tithe because they feel it will bless the giver and giving is at the core of our salvation. Jesus gave His life for you and I. If you feel like you attend a greedy church find another one. If giving is that big and issue with people they may need to do an inventory of their own heart. Whether or not tithing is a salvation issue or not I have never met anyone who couldn't do it. It is a simple process if you get $1 dollar give ten cents before you spend it.

If you feel like tithing isn't for today you still have to answer for all the other NT testament teaching on giving. If you are being led by the Spirit of God in everything you do I don't believe you'll have to worry about a thing. Ten percent is easy for most people who love to give no matter their financial status. Matter of fact sometimes givers have to be careful that they don't get too carried away and forget to provide for their families.

I do think it is the heart that God is looking at and not just the number 10. Problem is that people can't see the heart so a lot of times they judge by the number.

Brother, I think what you might be trying to say is give what you can.....it all depends of your circumstance. Tithing is non negotiable