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01-24-2009, 04:14 PM
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Registered Member
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Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
What is spiritual death, Praxeas? Did he or did he not suffer what we suffer due to sins? I am not talking about hell. lol
Do you not believe His cry of forsakenness on the cross was evident of what any human being with sin experiences?
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-24-2009, 04:18 PM
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Some say the cry meant: My God! my God! to what sort of persons hast thou left me?
As though He was forsaken to be left with such wicked people.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-24-2009, 04:21 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?
If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-24-2009, 04:56 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
What is spiritual death, Praxeas? Did he or did he not suffer what we suffer due to sins? I am not talking about hell. lol
Do you not believe His cry of forsakenness on the cross was evident of what any human being with sin experiences?
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I've said what spiritual death is already, separation from God.
He suffered physically.
He was not separated from God while on the cross. Again I addressed that. If that is true then this is what results depending on your theology
He became a second person.
He ceased being God.
He died or should have died right there...
God is the life. God is the person. God is the Deity. If God LEFT or separated from Christ, then Christ became either nothing more than a dead body or, as he kept living, he must have become a second person and just a man.
Christ was quoting David. David felt God forsaken because of his circumstances...which were that his people turned their backs on him and persued him to try to kill him.
Christ empathized with David.
It was not only a statement of Empathy but it also was a final statement to those Jews...just as you turned on David, rejected him and tried to kill him (Your fathers did), so did you do to me, your own Messiah
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-24-2009, 04:57 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?
If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.
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How can His deity leave His humanity? That goes against everything theological about him being God...Adoptionism in reverse
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-24-2009, 05:01 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
How can His deity leave His humanity? That goes against everything theological about him being God...Adoptionism in reverse
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Read my words more carefully. I said Deity did not physically leave Him.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-24-2009, 05:17 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,798
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
What is spiritual death, Praxeas? Did he or did he not suffer what we suffer due to sins? I am not talking about hell. lol
Do you not believe His cry of forsakenness on the cross was evident of what any human being with sin experiences?
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Brother Blume, could you explain your thoughts in a clearer way?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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01-24-2009, 05:18 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,798
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Read my words more carefully. I said Deity did not physically leave Him.
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Ok, what are you saying when you say spiritually separated?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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01-24-2009, 05:23 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,798
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?
If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.
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I think we are missing your meaning because of what you're saying in the above. Please look closely.
Brother Blume, what you are trying to say above is doublespeak, it doesn't make sense.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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01-24-2009, 05:29 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,798
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Re: Jesus forsaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?
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What are you saying? When you say "comfort" are you speaking of the one who gives the comfort, as in "The Comforter?"
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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