The definition of compromise is exactly what was done when the upic supported the internet.
The 2005 upci manual almost word for word says the same thing about television and the internet except the internet was accepted and television wasn't.
The same principle for television should apply to the internet. Legalism favorite two words is "Yeah, but....".
Compromise does not always mean one goes back on what one believes. Compromise also means to sacrifice one's principles for the sake of convenience. That is what the legalists did with the internet. Biggest mistake legalists ever made was to support internet. It opened the door for the passing of the tv resolution.
Not only that, the "argument" that "we need internet for work etc etc, but not TV" is really an admission that "Yes we recognize the Internet is just as bad as TV....but we are willing to make a compromise since we are not willing to work Jobs that don't have to use the Internet"...which is still beside the point since most of the time they are using the internet it seems it is not for work but for the purpose of entertainment or fellowship or arguing or debating or attacking or whatever else goes on in forums like this one
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Exactly what about his post do you think is dumb, Boomm?
I'd have to agree with Sheltie that if the only thing holding the UPC together was the rule against television, that it's a pretty weak organization, and probably needs to disband.
Of this statement you are indeed correct.
Let's look at the real world on what happens. The Guy 450 miles away is not exactly someone you are fond of. So the prospect of TV gets a grip and they start doing this massive campaign. Now, the away dude has some not so conventional methods that work- like meetings with some Trinitarians and those not fully in agreement with you for lifestyle. In the editing and "great production" * we see instead he portrays every church in the area as being about 1/2 step of either Jim Jones or David Koresh (pick your flavor for the issue). He is not like his broadcast at all. The real world problem is when the signal 450 miles away is now broadcast into your town and your members lives, and those you know in the community now ask you your views on what they have perceived to be the teaching of your church.
It is larger than Television indeed.
*view many webcasts and see that TV editing will be poor at best.
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I am not a member here -Do not PM me please?
Let's look at the real world on what happens. The Guy 450 miles away is not exactly someone you are fond of. So the prospect of TV gets a grip and they start doing this massive campaign. Now, the away dude has some not so conventional methods that work- like meetings with some Trinitarians and those not fully in agreement with you for lifestyle. In the editing and "great production" * we see instead he portrays every church in the area as being about 1/2 step of either Jim Jones or David Koresh (pick your flavor for the issue). He is not like his broadcast at all. The real world problem is when the signal 450 miles away is now broadcast into your town and your members lives, and those you know in the community now ask you your views on what they have perceived to be the teaching of your church.
It is larger than Television indeed.
*view many webcasts and see that TV editing will be poor at best.
Boomm,
I kind of think I may know what you're saying in the above paragraph, and if I do,
I'm not denying that what you've mentioned above happens in rare cases, but again, in my experience, they have been isolated cases. And for years, these types of things have been happening WITHOUT the aid of television.
I'm referring strictly to Sheltie's point about the UPCI being held together by its stance on television.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
HUH? Pants are just considered underwear if there is a skirt over them? I hope you're kidding........
And, a fake beard is ok, but a real beard isn't? Is a fake tattoo ok? Are ear rings acceptable if they are only clip ons? Is it ok to drink non-alchoholic drinks that look like real drinks. in a public place if you preach that we should abstain from alcohol? Kind of blows the old "Avoid the very appearance of evil" concept that is preached so stronlgy.
And, as far as the incosistencies and people's faith being shaken by observing others, I would agree that people need to have their faith in God, but not in man. However, if it weren't important to show consistency, why does the Bible speak so often about letting our light shine BEFORE MEN, not God, so that others will see our good works? We preach so strongly that many of our outward standards are there for the sake of not offending others, or being a witness, etc. And yet, you pretty much just said that people shouldn't be swayed by our actions or appearance.
Come on, M, you've just illustrated some of the very inconsistencies of which I speak.
So tell me this, what side of the fence are you on with this?
Do you think beards and pants and the other things you mentioned are OK or not OK?
So tell me this, what side of the fence are you on with this?
Do you think beards and pants and the other things you mentioned are OK or not OK?
My personal beliefs are inconsequential to this conversation.
This conversation centers around inconsistencies, and I've pointed several of those out.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
If one strengthens ones beliefs it is not compromise. If one goes back on their beliefs, it IS compromise.
If you were to discover at some point that the best internet filters were no longer good enough -- the technology can't keep up with the purveyors of filth who try to break through -- would you strengthen your beliefs and add the internet to the list of Don'ts?
Does nothing ever get through, even now? If a few things get by, how many is too many?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The symptoms where ignore, just like many people do, until it is too late.
I cancer is detected early it can be dealt with and the person might be saved, but if ignored it kills.
This is what has happened in the UPC. There were some that voiced concerns, but they were told that it was nothing to worry about. Now we see that the UPC was sick and now maybe even unto death.
The UPC needs a HEALER AND MAYBE NEEDS TO BE RESERECTED.
12But many of the priests and Levites and chief of the fathers, who were ancient men, that had seen the first house, when the foundation of this house was laid before their eyes, wept with a loud voice; and many shouted aloud for joy:
13So that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people: for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the noise was heard afar off.
With any change there will be weepers and rejoicers. I guess it just depends on whether your vision is in the past or in the future.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
Not only that, the "argument" that "we need internet for work etc etc, but not TV" is really an admission that "Yes we recognize the Internet is just as bad as TV....but we are willing to make a compromise since we are not willing to work Jobs that don't have to use the Internet"
No it isn't, not anything of the sort. See, you are assuming that everyone who has an issue with TV believes that TV is evil, and you're going to burn if you touch one. You forget the fact that the reason we have an issue with TV is because of SOME of the content that's on it. Content that seems to be hard to reliably filter and keep clean.(now I understand some have said there are devices available now that will do so. I have not checked into them yet, so for now my opinion on TV still stands.)
Again, you have to draw the line somewhere, and since the Internet is easily controlled/filtered/censored and one can easily take part in the good of the web without being exposed to the bad, some of us have no issue with it.
Folks, make up your own minds. Make your own salvation sure. To many are too busy whining about a standard that has been set, and bashing anyone who believes in the standard, that they can't see the forest for the trees.
Is the gospel preached? Are lost souls being reached? Then why have a hanky stomping hissy fit over a standard? Get your pentecostal panties out of a bunch, and focus on the JOY of the Holy Ghost before you have an aneurysm!
So not everyone sees things like you do! Big fat hairy deal! Are they a brother? A sister? Then why get all uptight because someone chooses to live a little stricter than you
I am new to this forum, and I am sure it happens both ways, but so far I have only seen the people who choose a lesser standard having issue with those who choose a stricter standard.
Why? Is Buford going to hell because he chooses to be a little more conservative than you? Is your little world going to end because Gertrude
wants to wear skirts that drag the ground and not watch TV?
I am hearing a lot of people having issue with a standard, but not many people stating where they stand on the standard. If you believe it, stand up and claim it.
(note, the "you" in the above 6 paragraphs is aimed at none in particular, but everyone as a whole)
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...which is still beside the point since most of the time they are using the Internet it seems it is not for work but for the purpose of entertainment or fellowship or .............
OK, so if a person has drawn their line, their conviction, at TV and are OK with the web, what is so wrong with them using it for things other than work?
Does the Bible say we are not to do anything for entertainment?
12But many of the priests and Levites and chief of the fathers, who were ancient men, that had seen the first house, when the foundation of this house was laid before their eyes, wept with a loud voice; and many shouted aloud for joy:
13So that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people: for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the noise was heard afar off.
With any change there will be weepers and rejoicers. I guess it just depends on whether your vision is in the past or in the future.
I have a vision for the future, but I'm not so sure dividing over this issue is going to conquer much.
But then again, I keep hearing that that issue isn't really the issue so I don't know...I just don't know...
Linear Mode
