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| Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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03-22-2007, 03:40 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
There is not a significant degree of difference between the trinity doctrine of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed and some versions of oneness.
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Other than the "persona" of the Son being eternal. That, my friend, is a big difference.
__________________
- And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
- Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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03-22-2007, 03:52 PM
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just lurking...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,808
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Oh goodness...why I am lost THIS time?
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03-22-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGIA
Other than the "persona" of the Son being eternal. That, my friend, is a big difference.
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No, that really isn't the difference at all. The difference is that oneness says "There is one God, Jesus" while the Creed states "We believe in one God, the Father." There is some argument as to whether "begotten before all ages" (or worlds) means the same thing as the Roman Catholic "eternally begotten" (I don't believe it does but I've heard Eastern Orthodox priests say that it does).
The Creed says regarding Jesus' divinity that it is homoousion "the same substance" or "one in substance" with the Father.
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03-22-2007, 04:57 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
No, that really isn't the difference at all.
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Yes, it is, Chan. The eternal Son was made flesh, not the eternal Father.
Big difference.
As can only be true of the trinitarian doctrine -- another person died for the world other than the One who created it. My earthly father wouldn't have allowed that and neither did my heavenly One.
__________________
- And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
- Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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03-23-2007, 04:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tx.
Posts: 2,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGIA
Yes, it is, Chan. The eternal Son was made flesh, not the eternal Father.
Big difference.
As can only be true of the trinitarian doctrine -- another person died for the world other than the One who created it. My earthly father wouldn't have allowed that and neither did my heavenly One.
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Ogia, There was no eternal Son before the eternal father's word became the Son.The word of the father became flesh or son.
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03-23-2007, 08:28 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelel
Ogia,There was no eternal Son before the eternal father's word became the Son.The word of the father became flesh or son.
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I agree. I was pointing out the difference to Chan, not stating a fact. 
__________________
- And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
- Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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03-23-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGIA
Yes, it is, Chan. The eternal Son was made flesh, not the eternal Father.
Big difference.
As can only be true of the trinitarian doctrine -- another person died for the world other than the One who created it. My earthly father wouldn't have allowed that and neither did my heavenly One.
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Since the SON was begotten (born), He cannot be eternal. Jesus' status as the Son applies ONLY to His humanity, which had a beginning. As for the silly notion that God did not send someone ELSE to die for our sins, John 3:16 says that God sent "his only begotten Son" - that's someone else. You are confusing Jesus' divinity (the logos of John 1:1) with His humanity.
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03-23-2007, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
Since the SON was begotten (born), He cannot be eternal.
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Quote:
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As for the silly notion that God did not send someone ELSE to die for our sins, John 3:16 says that God sent "his only begotten Son" - that's someone else.
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YOUR god may have made another person die for his creation, but mine did not. He's more responsible than any earthly father ever thought of being, and no decent earthly father would send another person to die for what he created.
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You are confusing Jesus' divinity (the logos of John 1:1) with His humanity.
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As I've stated numerous times to you: they cannot be separated with some theological zipper you (and, unfortunately, many others) seem to possess.
The divinity that became flesh is the very divinity that is the Father. Spirit took on humanity. No separating the two, Chan. Jesus Christ is not some pull-apart doll for you (and, unfortunately, many others) to dissect for your own theological rumination.
Jesus Christ is THE Almighty God. There is no other. I pray you get this revelation before He reveals Himself as such. You gonna' be right there with the Jews shaking your head and wondering why you didn't ask Him for this understanding. 
__________________
- And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
- Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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03-23-2007, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGIA
YOUR god may have made another person die for his creation, but mine did not. He's more responsible than any earthly father ever thought of being, and no decent earthly father would send another person to die for what he created.
As I've stated numerous times to you: they cannot be separated with some theological zipper you (and, unfortunately, many others) seem to possess.
The divinity that became flesh is the very divinity that is the Father. Spirit took on humanity. No separating the two, Chan. Jesus Christ is not some pull-apart doll for you (and, unfortunately, many others) to dissect for your own theological rumination.
Jesus Christ is THE Almighty God. There is no other. I pray you get this revelation before He reveals Himself as such. You gonna' be right there with the Jews shaking your head and wondering why you didn't ask Him for this understanding.
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I will let the scripture speak for itself (bolded text is for emphasis):
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" ( John 3:16-17).
"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" ( Galatians 4:4).
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him" ( 1 John 4:9).
Those things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to His humanity and those things pertaining to His humanity do not pertain to His divinity.
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03-23-2007, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
I will let the scripture speak for itself (bolded text is for emphasis):
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" ( John 3:16-17).
"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" ( Galatians 4:4).
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him" ( 1 John 4:9). |
I believe every one of those verses, Chan!!
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Those things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to His humanity and those things pertaining to His humanity do not pertain to His divinity.
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Such as?
__________________
- And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
- Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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