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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


View Poll Results: Do you believe and/or teach that standards are heaven or hell issues?
Absolutely. I believe and teach that standards are heaven or hell issues. 11 19.30%
I believe that standards should be followed, but they do not necessarily affect salvation. 10 17.54%
I do not believe standards are salvational, but I teach them in compliance with the organization. 3 5.26%
I do not believe or teach that standards are salvational. 21 36.84%
I teach that standards are matters of consecration, but are not salvational. 11 19.30%
I don't know. 1 1.75%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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  #71  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:19 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGIA View Post
I agree, PO, but there is a part of our outward appearance (esp. women) that attracts the world and let's them know "something is different about that one!"
BUt that was never stated in scripture to be the purpose of modesty. It is simply to be modest. Never does the bible say the way we dress is our sign to believers of our Christianity. And I do not think we should take it to be so. It leads to error.

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I work in a hospital. I can spot the housekeepers from the nurses and them from the doctors.....WHEN they are dressed according to our system's standards. If I were to need a doctor, I'd KNOW (if they are dressed per "standards") who to run to. When they are walking around dressed any ol' way they chose, you can't tell one from the other (some- or most times).

Along those lines, I've always used this example (and pardon me that it works best with, but not exclusively with, women): if you desperately needed prayer at a car accident and two women were walking your way and one was dressed "worldly" and the other like an Apostolic who holds to the stricter standards of dress, who would you run to first?
But it still stands that clothes are never stated in scripture to show who we are. Love is the only thing. And love handles all the rest anyway. If you have genuinbe love, you will dress right. But if we emphasize dress and not love, then we may dress right, but not be genuinbe believers.

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Please don't assume I think outward dress saves anyone, but there is a place for it in the world. There may not be time for someone to see your fruit, even though I think that is the best indicator to the world of who is a Christian.

Just a thought.
Fruit is fruit. It is what people see. That is the context of the thought when speaking about fruit in Matthew 7 and Gal 5. If it is not seen, it is not fruit. And the fruit can ever only be love and joy and peace, etc.

I am all for modesty. But not for modesty to be our "fruit" and indication to our salvation. Never.
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  #72  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:20 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
Sooooo.....PP wasn't so far off by stating that some have replaced Jesus with standards, huh?
You wanna believe it!
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  #73  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:21 PM
OGIA OGIA is offline


 
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
I am all for modesty. But not for modesty to be our "fruit" and indication to our salvation. Never.
I agree.
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  #74  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:21 PM
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Ferd Ferd is offline
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I voted number 1.

I belive that standards are a heaven and hell isssue.

the question for me is what standards are?

you cant get drunk and fall down and go to heaven. that is a standard.

you cant be saved and walk around nekked every day. that is a standard

you cant watch porn and be saved. that is a standard.

but watching a baseball game on TV in a pair of shorts will not send you to hell. these are not standards.
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  #75  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:21 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I voted number 1.

I belive that standards are a heaven and hell isssue.

the question for me is what standards are?

you cant get drunk and fall down and go to heaven. that is a standard.

you cant be saved and walk around nekked every day. that is a standard

you cant watch porn and be saved. that is a standard.

but watching a baseball game on TV in a pair of shorts will not send you to hell. these are not standards.
VERY GOOD POINT. True standards of the bible are heaven or hell. Either it's the work of the cross, or it is hell.

But we know what they mean by "standards". --->Clothes.
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  #76  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:22 PM
OGIA OGIA is offline


 
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Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
That's just nuts~!
Don't know what to tell you. I think it's quite accurate. Maybe not perfect, but..........

The world, for the most part, knows what a godly woman looks like....especially in times of need.
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  • Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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  #77  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:25 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Originally Posted by OGIA View Post
I agree.
However, I disagree with saying clothing is to be considered as to whether or not we are Christians. Like I said, it leads to error in many cases. The Bible said anything about clothing being our indicators, and God obviously had a good reason why. All these theories of how we recognize officials in the way they dress are not biblical reasons for modesty.

Let's just leave it as the need for modesty and that is ALL. That way, we will not get into error. I truly believe that if we propose standards of dress as indicators of who is saved or not, MANY WILL GET INTO LEGALISM and make it their salvation. And many have. It's bound to happen. But when you leave it as an issue of modesty alone, and propose the fruit of the Spirit ALONE indicates who is saved, the error is avoided. Let's emphasize everything exactly the way the bible did, and that includes NOT saying clothing tells the world who we are.
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  #78  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:27 PM
John Atkinson John Atkinson is offline
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I voted option 1, ummmm, squeemishly. Holiness is a heaven or hell issue. Standards and holiness aren't necessarily the same thing.
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  #79  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:29 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Originally Posted by John Atkinson View Post
I voted option 1, ummmm, squeemishly. Holiness is a heaven or hell issue. Standards and holiness aren't necessarily the same thing.
But the poll never used the term HOLINESS, just STANDARDS.

How "holiness" ever became synonymous with clothing is beyond me. NO ONE reading the bible would ever come up with that unless they were primed and pumped from outward emphasizers. Because I know what most who read the polls think of "holiness" I voted 2.
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  #80  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:29 PM
CupCake
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Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
Sooooo.....PP wasn't so far off by stating that some have replaced Jesus with standards, huh?
Yep, I agree with him, many have made it another gospel other then Grace~
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