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Old 03-25-2008, 12:17 PM
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Question The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

This was posted by Avahat Elohim on Synadelfos ... under the title the The Ten Commandments Were Never Intended for the Gentiles:

What say ye?

Quote:
There have been many opinions expressed on this topic here. Especially in regard to keeping Shabbat.

May I present the Jewish perspective?

God loves us all. "Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" (Sanhedrin 105a). He does not leave anyone, Jew or non-Jew without guidance. To the non-Jew He has given the Seven Commandments.

After the flood which killed everyone but Noah and his family, God sealed a covenant with Noah with the following seven admonitions:

1. Prohibition of Idolatry: You shall not have any idols before God.
2. Prohibition of Murder: You shall not murder.
3. Prohibition of Theft: You shall not steal.
4. Prohibition of Sexual Promiscuity: You shall not commit adultery.
5. Prohibition of Blasphemy: You shall not blaspheme God's name.
6. Prohibition of Cruelty to Animals: Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
7. Requirement to have just Laws: You shall set up an effective judiciary to fairly judge observance of the preceding six laws

These Seven Laws of Noah are a set of seven moral imperatives which, according to the Talmud, were given by God to Noah as a binding set of laws for all mankind. Judaism states any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile and is assured of a place in the world to come. Adherents are often called "B'nei Noah" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and often network in Jewish synagogues.

In Judaism, the ten commandments given Moses and the resulting 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore only binding upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. Some Rabbinic opinion holds that not only are non-Jews not obligated to adhere to all the laws of the Torah, but they are actually forbidden to observe them. Rabbinic Judaism AND its modern-day descendants discourage proselytization. The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.

The Talmud states a non-Jew who keeps the Noahide Law in all its details is said to attain the same spiritual and moral level as Israel's own Kohen Gadol (high priest). In a similar statement Maimonides states in his work Mishneh Torah that a non-Jew who is precise in the observance of these Seven Noahide commandments is considered to be a "Righteous Gentile" and has earned a place in the world to come.

Some such as Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Chabad Lubavitch world Jewish movement believe that the Noahide Laws observance by all humankind will bring about universal peace and the Messianic Redemption.

(However, according to Maimonides, a gentile is considered righteous only if a person follows the Noahide laws specifically because he or she considers them to be of divine origin, through the Torah, and not if they are merely considered to be intellectually compelling or good rules for living.)

From the perspective of traditional halakhah, if a non-Jew keeps all of the laws covered by the Seven Noahide commandments, then he or she is considered a Ger Toshav "Sojourning Alien" amid the people of Israel. A "Ger Toshav" is the only kind of non-Jew who Jewish law permits to live among the Jewish people in the Land of Israel when the land is run according to Halacha and there is Sanhedrin/Temple.

(A Ger Toshav should not be confused with a Ger Tzedek who is a person who prefers to proceed to total conversion to Judaism, a procedure that is traditionally discouraged by Judaism and allowed to take place only after much thought and deliberation over converting.)

At this point I am sure there are others better qualified who would like to take up the discussion on the following topic:

It my understanding that the main disagreement among the early “apostles” was because the gentiles converts to Yeshua where considered by some to be Ger Tzedek and therefore should also obey all the mitzvot, but one Apostle Paul argued that Christianity was not just a division of Judaism and the gentiles should not bring themselves under the law, but were instead saved by “grace.”

(Perhaps part of the reason some thought the gentile coverts to Christianity to be Ger Tzedek may have been in part because of the baptism rituals practiced by Christians, which so closely mirrored those followed by gentiles who converted to Judaism, but that will be a different article).

Shalom
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:25 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

Be careful with these reasonings! lol

The issue of implementing NOAHIDE laws into the USA has been serious in the last few years. Many are fighting it, but not for reasons some might think, which we ought to consider. According to Jews who believe this reasoning, Noahide Laws should be implemented in society for Gentiles, but the Christians violate the Noahide Laws through committing idolatry. The idea that God is manifest in flesh is idolatrous to them. This breaks the first Noahide Law in their estimation. Both Jews and Muslims agree Christians thereby commit idolatry. So if these laws WERE implemented, Christianity would be illegal. Really.

The Jews reason that if Christians believe God is manifest in flesh, then they commit idolatry by worshiping flesh -- a physical thing. The fact is Oneness does not worship the flesh since God did not BECOME flesh but MANIFESTED IN flesh. Big difference. Jesus even said His flesh profited nothing, but the Words He spoke were Spirit and life. John 6:63.

Something to consider.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:47 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

very interesting.
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:10 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Be careful with these reasonings! lol

The issue of implementing NOAHIDE laws into the USA has been serious in the last few years. Many are fighting it, but not for reasons some might think, which we ought to consider. According to Jews who believe this reasoning, Noahide Laws should be implemented in society for Gentiles, but the Christians violate the Noahide Laws through committing idolatry. The idea that God is manifest in flesh is idolatrous to them. This breaks the first Noahide Law in their estimation. Both Jews and Muslims agree Christians thereby commit idolatry. So if these laws WERE implemented, Christianity would be illegal. Really.

The Jews reason that if Christians believe God is manifest in flesh, then they commit idolatry by worshiping flesh -- a physical thing. The fact is Oneness does not worship the flesh since God did not BECOME flesh but MANIFESTED IN flesh. Big difference. Jesus even said His flesh profited nothing, but the Words He spoke were Spirit and life. John 6:63.

Something to consider.
So then if this explanation is given to them, would they then consider us to be rightgeous gentiles?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:28 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

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Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen View Post
So then if this explanation is given to them, would they then consider us to be rightgeous gentiles?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
If they truly understood Oneness, then yes. But they do not, and therefore they group us all as idolators. But how else would they respond to Jesus Christ? He is their arch enemy in their minds.
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:57 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

Daniel . that was the whole counsel of God thru the apostles in Acts 15:28-29. The Noahide laws is all that was required of new Gentile Christians.

It was natural order for the Jewish apostles to come up with this ruling as it was an extension of their own Jewish faith, that any gentile could have a part in the life to come by following the simple laws of the noahide.

Gentiles were never encouraged to attemp to follow the entire mizvot (613 laws of the torah) In fact they were commande NOT TO .

Many do not realize that by going to Duet 22:5 and imposing a false interptretation, we trangress the teaching of the new testament.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:00 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
Daniel . that was the whole counsel of God thru the apostles in Acts 15:28-29. The Noahide laws is all that was required of new Gentile Christians.

It was natural order for the Jewish apostles to come up with this ruling as it was an extension of their own Jewish faith, that any gentile could have a part in the life to come by following the simple laws of the noahide.

Gentiles were never encouraged to attemp to follow the entire mizvot (613 laws of the torah) In fact they were commande NOT TO .

Many do not realize that by going to Duet 22:5 and imposing a false interptretation, we trangress the teaching of the new testament.
If Deut. 22:5 is a moral law are we not commanded to keep it? Can Christians condone and allow cross-dressing?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:02 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen View Post
If Deut. 22:5 is a moral law are we not commanded to keep it? Can Christians condone and allow cross-dressing?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Crossdressing is the false intrepretation of that scrtpture.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:08 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

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Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
Crossdressing is the false intrepretation of that scrtpture.
Then what does men wearing garments pertaining unto women and women wearing garments pertaining unto men, being an abomination mean?
There may be have been a direct context for that law then, but even now it carries a certain weight and truth that is prudent to follow. I'm not saying we need to be legalistic about dress standards, but women wearing breeches is not acceptable if she is saved and being sanctified.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:16 PM
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Re: The Ten Commandments Are Not for Gentiles?

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Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen View Post
Then what does men wearing garments pertaining unto women and women wearing garments pertaining unto men, being an abomination mean?
There may be have been a direct context for that law then, but even now it carries a certain weight and truth that is prudent to follow. I'm not saying we need to be legalistic about dress standards, but women wearing breeches is not acceptable if she is saved and being sanctified.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
Get out Strongs and look up the word "man" in Dt 22:5 then look up the very few other places that hebrew "geber" was used in the OT.

You should be able to figure it out.

Let me know if you get stuck.
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