Summoning spirits? Who did the Witch of Endor see?

SDG · #1 02-11-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

What about Samuel called upon by the witch of Endor? The Bible did not say it was a fake Samuel, but an actual Samuel. We simply read the bible comment on it and say it was Samuel!

1 Samuel 28:12 KJV And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

Did the Bible lie to us?

I re-read this account in 1 Samuel yesterday and your question is valid. I also read Josephus account of the ancient history ... and I think it's safe to infer that in the Jewish tradition they believed it was really Samuel.

Hmmm?

berkeley · #2 02-11-2009, 03:04 PM

hmmm???

TJJJ · #3 02-11-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I re-read this account in 1 Samuel yesterday and your question is valid. I also read Josephus account of the ancient history ... and I think it's safe to infer that in the Jewish tradition they believed it was really Samuel.

Hmmm?

With all due respect Dan,

The problem with reading any other thing into this, except that it was Samuel, is reading more into the Word. The Word says Samuel answered, Samuel spoke and etc.

You have to realize that Samuel was in the grave. Short and simple. Everyone in the OT went to the grave. David went to the grave, Adam went to the grave, they all went to the grave except Elijah and possibly Enoch and Moses.

That was why Samuel was able to tell Saul that that very day Saul would be with Samuel. Where was Samuel, in the grave.

The devil controlled the grave in the OT. When Jesus resurrected he brought with Him the keys to death, hell and the GRAVE. Jesus wrested back control of what Adam had lost.

The witch really brought Samuel up. I believe that she was expecting a spirit, because she was suprised when Samuel came.

For whatever reason, God allowed that in the OT to happen.

The New Testament is different because of the cross and the resurrection. Jesus changed it all.

SDG · #4 02-11-2009, 03:16 PM

Jimbo, I think we should be careful about reading more into the Word than we should .... but ...

Not nitpicking but Jesus said he held the keys to Hades and Death ...

Revelation 1:18

Josephus who in no way is "inspired" writes that Samuel complained after being brought up from Hades.

Again, I think only a persuasive argument to how some Jewish thinkers saw it.

I know the KJV refers to Hades as hell several times ... and Hades as the grave ... I think only once.

Yet the NASB, ESV and Reina Valera ... and I assume the Greek .... reads Hades ... for Rev. 1:18

Scott Hutchinson · #5 02-11-2009, 03:22 PM

If the Bible says the woman saw Samuel then so be it.
This could mean perhaps she saw the spirit of Samuel ?
But it sounds like she saw a visible physical form.
If the bible says she saw Samuel then she saw Samuel.

TJJJ · #6 02-11-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

If the Bible says the woman saw Samuel then so be it.
This could mean perhaps she saw the spirit of Samuel ?
But it sounds like she saw a visible physical form.
If the bible says she saw Samuel then she saw Samuel.

Kinda hard to argue with the Word. When we go to interpolating things into the Word we can interpolate and infer anything we want.

Sorry, it was Samuel

Scott Hutchinson · #7 02-11-2009, 03:27 PM

She saw Samuel,the question could be asked what form was Samuel in though ?
Did she see the Spirit of Samuel or did she see Samuel the Human being ?

SDG · #8 02-11-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Kinda hard to argue with the Word. When we go to interpolating things into the Word we can interpolate and infer anything we want.

Sorry, it was Samuel

So if we accept that it is Samuel ...

Samuel did tell Saul tha he and his sons would join him where?

The grave? Hades? Hell?

1 Samuel 28

19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you(U) and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."