I have a question about the UPC

[Amanah]

Are there churches in the UPC that don't preach holiness "standards"

that do believe that salvation is a Repentance

that believe that baptism is unto the remission of sins (not for the remission of sins)

that believe you are saved at repentance

and that you are saved before you receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues

Are there churches in the UPC that preach/teach the above? and if so, how many?

[TGBTG]

kinda off topic here (but still on topic...lol)

I wonder why people mention "baptism for the remission of sins" As in Peter said repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. So I see both the repentance and the baptism going together for the remission of sins...

Just my observation anyways...

[berkeley]

You will not get accurate info as many are afraid to express their real views.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

kinda off topic here (but still on topic...lol)

I wonder why people mention "baptism for the remission of sins" As in Peter said repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. So I see both the repentance and the baptism going together for the remission of sins...

Just my observation anyways...

you are saying that repentance and baptism together remits sins?

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

kinda off topic here (but still on topic...lol)

I wonder why people mention "baptism for the remission of sins" As in Peter said repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. So I see both the repentance and the baptism going together for the remission of sins...

Just my observation anyways...

BECAUSE "for the remission of sins" points to "repent," it does not point to "and be baptized."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Are there churches in the UPC that don't preach holiness "standards"

There are some that don't preach them but still abide by them. By that I mean it's rarely taught or preached and they are not as fanatical about them as others

There are some perhaps that don't abide by them at all but they probably won't remain longer in the UPC

that do believe that salvation is a Repentance

That salvation occurs by faith at repentance? I know there were some. Many left because the UPC was too conservative...which is ironic since the conservatives left because the UPC is too liberal

that believe that baptism is unto the remission of sins (not for the remission of sins)

Not sure what the distinction is you are trying to make

and that you are saved before you receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues

Or can be saved before...I know from personal experience there are many that believe you can be saved before

Are there churches in the UPC that preach/teach the above? and if so, how many?

You'll never get a number

There are many pastors that believe a person can be saved, or rather God can save someone despite not being baptized in Jesus name, particularly if they have received the baptism with tongues

[Praxeas]

The UPC articles of faith says sins are forgiven at or when we genuinely repent

[Amanah]

ok

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Amanah

you are saying that repentance and baptism together remits sins?

I was just making on observation on the verse itself...

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I'm not a scholar, so maybe the antecedent for "remission of sins" is only "be baptized" and does not include "repent".

However, since Peter also said in Acts 10:43
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(FYI: I don't see repenting any different than believing. I think they go hand in hand as per Acts 20:21)

Based on Acts 10:43 ALONE, we'd say that believing in him remits our sins. But then we see that Peter told them to be baptized because Jesus himself COMMANDED water baptism.

Now, traditional protestant teaching is that baptism is an outward sign of an inward work. I have come to disagree with that in the last few days because Peter obviously knew that the gentiles had received the HolyGhost. So, Peter obviously knew the inward work had taken place. Nevertheless, they were commanded to be baptized.

So putting Acts 2:38 together with Acts 10:43-48 and Acts 16:31-33, I see repentance and baptism going hand-in-hand for the remission of sins.

In any case, if a person repents and trusts in Christ they will be baptized.
If a person is baptized without repentance, the person is obviously NOT saved. So therefore, I believe that repentance is the CRUCIAL part of the whole story.

I guess I have just talked myself into being a one-stepper...lol

[Praxeas]

Water baptism is a number of things, including an outward sign of an inward work, but the bible never actually says that is what it is for or limits to that.

Baptism was a practice of discipleship. If you were to be someone's disciple he baptized you. If he gives you authority to make disciples in His name you went out and made disciples to the Master and baptized them in place of the Master doing so in His name. John's disciples were baptized by John

Disciples of Jesus are baptized by His messengers in His stead and in His name