Jesus would stone homosexuals News Story

[Disciple4life]

Pastor says "Jesus would stone homos". This link is to the blaze.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...ee-to-believe/

[KeptByTheWord]

We do not know that. Surely there were "homos" in Jesus day, and there is no record of Him doing that. Instead, no doubt Jesus would have brought deliverance to the lives of those in that bondage, instead of stoning them.

[MissBrattified]

Not a chance. He didn't stone the adulterous woman; why would He stone a homosexual?

[Disciple4life]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Not a chance. He didn't stone the adulterous woman; why would He stone a homosexual?

That is what I thought.

[Aquila]

Some bible scholars would say that Jesus actually had much mercy upon a man and his who had a male "servant" (Grk. "pais"), healing the servant upon the man's request. They note that in extra-biblical literature the term "pais" often denotes a male servant who was commonly both a servant and lover for Roman centurions and aristocrats:

Matthew 8:5-10
5 When he had entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him, 6 “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.” 7 And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” 8 But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.

Now, is this true? They say this is why the Roman centurion felt unworthy for Jesus (a Jew) to come under his roof.

Luke's depiction is as follows:

Luke 7:1-10
English Standard Version (ESV)
1 After he had finished all his sayings in the hearing of the people, he entered Capernaum. 2 Now a centurion had a servant[a] who was sick and at the point of death, who was highly valued (entimos) by him. 3 When the centurion[b] heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4 And when they came to Jesus, they pleaded with him earnestly, saying, “He is worthy to have you do this for him, 5 for he loves our nation, and he is the one who built us our synagogue.” 6 And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends, saying to him, “Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. 7 Therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. 8 For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.” 10 And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the servant well.

Many say that since the centurion assisted with the building of a synagogue and loved the Jewish people, he couldn't have been in an illicit relationship with his servant (pais). But rather he refused to have Jesus come under his roof because he was a Gentile. However, others argue that just as in our day, a person can be of a religious orientation, friendly to a given church, and still be living in a sinful lifestyle that is customary in the world. The servant (pais) is regarded as being "entimos", or of "intimate" value, or lovingly "dear" to him.

Eh, I'll let the Bible scholars battle it out. However, if one even considers it at least a remote possibility... we see great mercy shown by Jesus towards even the most sinful pagans. And even the traditional understanding demonstrates Christ's mercy and compassion towards those considered "unclean" by the law's standard.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Some bible scholars would say that Jesus actually had much mercy upon a man and his who had a male "servant" (Grk. "pais"), healing the servant upon the man's request. They note that in extra-biblical literature the term "pais" often denotes a male servant who was commonly both a servant and lover for Roman centurions and aristocrats:

Matthew 8:5-10
5 When he had entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him, 6 “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.” 7 And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” 8 But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.

Now, is this true? They say this is why the Roman centurion felt unworthy for Jesus (a Jew) to come under his roof.

Luke's depiction is as follows:

Luke 7:1-10
English Standard Version (ESV)
1 After he had finished all his sayings in the hearing of the people, he entered Capernaum. 2 Now a centurion had a servant[a] who was sick and at the point of death, who was highly valued (entimos) by him. 3 When the centurion[b] heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4 And when they came to Jesus, they pleaded with him earnestly, saying, “He is worthy to have you do this for him, 5 for he loves our nation, and he is the one who built us our synagogue.” 6 And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends, saying to him, “Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. 7 Therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. 8 For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.” 10 And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the servant well.

Many say that since the centurion assisted with the building of a synagogue and loved the Jewish people, he couldn't have been in an illicit relationship with his servant (pais). But rather he refused to have Jesus come under his roof because he was a Gentile. However, others argue that just as in our day, a person can be of a religious orientation, friendly to a given church, and still be living in a sinful lifestyle that is customary in the world. The servant (pais) is regarded as being "entimos", or of "intimate" value, or lovingly "dear" to him.

Eh, I'll let the Bible scholars battle it out. However, if one even considers it at least a remote possibility... we see great mercy shown by Jesus towards even the most sinful pagans. And even the traditional understanding demonstrates Christ's mercy and compassion towards those considered "unclean" by the law's standard.

I didn't see any "Bible Scholarship" in your post. Have a reference?

[Praxeas]

NET bible
13 tn The Greek term here is παῖς (pais), often used of a slave who was regarded with some degree of affection, possibly a personal servant (Luk_7:7 uses the more common term δοῦλος, doulos). See L&N 87.77.

Note it says affection, not sexual relation

Zodhaites Word Study
παίς
país; gen. paidós, masc.-fem. noun. A child in relation to descent; a boy or girl in relation to age; a manservant, attendant, maid in relation to cultural condition. Spoken of all ages from infancy up to full-grown youth (Mat_2:16; Act_20:12 [cf. Act_20:9]).

(I) Particularly and generally (Mat_2:16; Mat_21:15); sing. ho país (Mat_17:18; Luk_2:43; Luk_9:42; Joh_4:51; Act_20:12 [cf. Act_20:9 neanías {G3494}, a young man]); sing. fem hē país (Luk_8:51, Luk_8:54 [cf. Luk_8:42 thugátēr {G2364}, daughter]); Sept.: Gen_24:28, Gen_24:57; Gen_34:12; Rth_2:6).

(II) Boy, servant.
(A) Particularly and generally, equivalent to doúlos (G1401), a servant, slave (Mat_8:6, Mat_8:8, Mat_8:13 [cf. Mat_8:9, doúlos]; Luk_7:7 [cf. Luk_7:3]; Luk_12:45; Luk_15:26; Sept.: Gen_9:26-27; Gen_24:2; Gen_26:15).

(B) An attendant, minister, as of a king (Mat_14:2; Sept.: Gen_41:38; Jer_36:24).
(C) The servant
of God, spoken of a minister or ambassador of God, called and beloved of God, and sent by Him to perform any service, e.g., of David (Luk_1:69; Act_4:25); of Israel (Luk_1:54 [cf. Sept.: Isa_41:8-9; Isa_44:1-2; Isa_45:4]); of Jesus the Messiah (Mat_12:18 in allusion to Isa_42:1; Act_3:13, Act_3:26; Act_4:27, Act_4:30; Sept.: Isa_49:6; Isa_50:10; Isa_52:13).

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

NET bible
13 tn The Greek term here is παῖς (pais), often used of a slave who was regarded with some degree of affection, possibly a personal servant (Luk_7:7 uses the more common term δοῦλος, doulos). See L&N 87.77.

Note it says affection, not sexual relation

Zodhaites Word Study
παίς
país; gen. paidós, masc.-fem. noun. A child in relation to descent; a boy or girl in relation to age; a manservant, attendant, maid in relation to cultural condition. Spoken of all ages from infancy up to full-grown youth (Mat_2:16; Act_20:12 [cf. Act_20:9]).

(I) Particularly and generally (Mat_2:16; Mat_21:15); sing. ho país (Mat_17:18; Luk_2:43; Luk_9:42; Joh_4:51; Act_20:12 [cf. Act_20:9 neanías {G3494}, a young man]); sing. fem hē país (Luk_8:51, Luk_8:54 [cf. Luk_8:42 thugátēr {G2364}, daughter]); Sept.: Gen_24:28, Gen_24:57; Gen_34:12; Rth_2:6).

(II) Boy, servant.
(A) Particularly and generally, equivalent to doúlos (G1401), a servant, slave (Mat_8:6, Mat_8:8, Mat_8:13 [cf. Mat_8:9, doúlos]; Luk_7:7 [cf. Luk_7:3]; Luk_12:45; Luk_15:26; Sept.: Gen_9:26-27; Gen_24:2; Gen_26:15).

(B) An attendant, minister, as of a king (Mat_14:2; Sept.: Gen_41:38; Jer_36:24).
(C) The servant
of God, spoken of a minister or ambassador of God, called and beloved of God, and sent by Him to perform any service, e.g., of David (Luk_1:69; Act_4:25); of Israel (Luk_1:54 [cf. Sept.: Isa_41:8-9; Isa_44:1-2; Isa_45:4]); of Jesus the Messiah (Mat_12:18 in allusion to Isa_42:1; Act_3:13, Act_3:26; Act_4:27, Act_4:30; Sept.: Isa_49:6; Isa_50:10; Isa_52:13).

Some try to project their thoughts into scripture, especially now days, and especially regarding homosexuality. They would love to try and find a scripture where Jesus had a beloved homosexual friend or healed one.

I read some blog a while back claiming David and Jonathan were lovers. And of course, David being a man after God's own heart and all....

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by n david

Some try to project their thoughts into scripture, especially now days, and especially regarding homosexuality. They would love to try and find a scripture where Jesus had a beloved homosexual friend or healed one.

I read some blog a while back claiming David and Jonathan were lovers. And of course, David being a man after God's own heart and all....

At the same time, we need to remember that we are 2000+ years away from the events in the Bible. We live in a completely different culture, and it is extremely difficult not to look at things through the filter of our modern times, our nation, our gender, our religious affiliation and our life experiences.

The truth is, that given what we known of ancient Roman and Greek culture, male homosexuality was common. I read a great book once called The History of the Wife, and I remember it talking about how in Roman Upper Classes it was believed that only two men were capable of true love and affection, and that women were for the necessary evil of procreation.

So knowing that it is perfectly reasonable to assume that there might have been gay people mentioned in the Bible stories, and to try to understand the stories of Jesus and His parables in context.

However, I tend to believe that if it was important, it would be explicitly mentioned, and there would be no need for conjecture. (Unless of course, there was a mass conspiracy! LOL)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't see any "Bible Scholarship" in your post. Have a reference?

Just Google the extensive usage of "pais" in Greek and Roman literature.