Be Perfect Be Pure

[Michael The Disciple]

For TK Burk and (hopefully) all others.

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Follow Up

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My latest video.

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[TK Burk]

Thanks!

I'll watch these and get back to you later...

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

For TK Burk and (hopefully) all others.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=53003

Follow Up

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=53039

My latest video.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=53044

I watched all three of your video teachings. Here's what I gathered:

1. a saint is to perfectly keep all that Jesus commanded
2. if a saint does not keep all Jesus commanded they are not perfect.
3. being perfect is more than what other preachers say it is
4. but you know what perfect actually means
5. perfect isn't just "complete" - it also means "obedience"
6. And unlike others, you keep all the commandments, thus, you are perfect.

Did I hear you correctly? If not, please explain.

[Evang.Benincasa]

https://tkburk.com/among-them-that-are-perfect/

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I watched all three of your video teachings. Here's what I gathered:

1. a saint is to perfectly keep all that Jesus commanded
2. if a saint does not keep all Jesus commanded they are not perfect.
3. being perfect is more than what other preachers say it is
4. but you know what perfect actually means
5. perfect isn't just "complete" - it also means "obedience"
6. And unlike others, you keep all the commandments, thus, you are perfect.

Did I hear you correctly? If not, please explain.

So in short, if you don’t believe everything Michael the Disabled believes, you are not perfect. Good grief.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

https://tkburk.com/among-them-that-are-perfect/

Bro. Benincasa's link goes to a study he has on my Website. This is his study:

Among Them that are Perfect

The Apostle Paul spoke intelligently to those who were “mature” in the faith. This would be to those who were complete in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that ARE PERFECT: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

As a result, it is safe to say that Paul knew that there were others who were spiritually mature in Christ. Yet, the Apostle Peter praises Paul for his level of understanding, indicating that as far as the Apostle Peter was concerned, Paul had mature understanding of the scriptures. Also, that Paul’s writings were equal with the same authority as the scriptures of the Hebrew Bible.

2 Peter 3:15-16
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

But, let us look at what Paul was saying to the Philippian church. Here the Apostle begins to give his qualifications, that he was a Hebrew of Hebrews, as concerning the Law blameless without fault, yet, he counted it all as nothing that he may obtain Christ. The Apostle Paul makes the statement that he didn’t count himself as having attained the level which he was looking for, which doesn’t mean, that he wasn’t spiritually mature, or at a higher level than others around him. Because the Apostle Paul then goes on to say….

Philippians 3:14-16
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have ALREADY ATTAINED, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Again, Paul points to those who he considered as spiritually mature in Christ, but then goes on to say (including himself) as to what they have attained they were to keep pressing on further towards that high calling in Christ. This they should do while always leaving behind carnal religious works and credentials, which amount to nothing. In Philippians 3:17, the Apostle Paul gives himself as an example to the Body of Christ. This example should be noted and followed.

Philippians 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Was the Apostle Paul mature, and spiritually complete? The scripture would indicate that he was, but he believed that he could go even farther. Therefore the Apostle encouraged all those in the Body of Christ to also go further, and reach towards a high level of spiritual maturity in Christ Jesus.

Did Jesus expect His followers to become complete and spiritually mature? Yes, because Jesus Himself told us to be perfect as the Father was perfect. If it couldn’t be attained, then why would He tell us to “be” something, which was impossible to reach?

The Apostle Paul tells us that when he was a child, he spake as a child, he understood as a child, he thought as a child: but when he became a man, he put away childish things. When he became a man, fully mature spiritually. There comes a time when we are no longer looking at a blurred self-image of ourselves in Christ, but we see as God sees us. Therefore, Paul taught that the duty of the ministry was to encourage those in the church to press on towards the high calling in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:28
Whom we preach, WARNING every man, and TEACHING every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man PERFECT in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 4:12
Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand PERFECT and COMPLETE in ALL the will of God.

Paul taught that we were to press on to be able to stand spiritually mature in all the will of God. Not our own human carnal will, but God’s will, His leading of His Spirit. Therefore, the Apostle goes on to say…..

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of JUST MEN MADE PERFECT,

We are told that the just will live by faith, and warned NOT to turn back.

Hebrews 10:38-39
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

So, obeying God, and following God without drawing back, while pressing on to the high calling in Christ Jesus brings believers to maturity. So, is it possible to attain? It most certainly is.

Did Paul reach spiritual maturity? The scripture seems to indicate that he did. Just that the Apostle believed he could go even higher.

Hebrews 13:20-21
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you PERFECT in EVERY good work to DO HIS WILL, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Copyright © 2012 DD Benincasa.

[TK Burk]

[Michael The Disciple]

TK Burk

I watched all three of your video teachings. Here's what I gathered:

a saint is to perfectly keep all that Jesus commanded

Amen. Note what Jesus said in Luke 17:7-10

7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

When we do all that is commanded by Jesus we are just doing what we should be doing.

.if a saint does not keep all Jesus commanded they are not perfect.

True. If they have sin in their life they are not perfect.

1 Cor. 15:34

34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

If one is sinning they are not "awake" to righteousness. Paul is shaming them so they will cease from sin. If they are not in righteousness neither the knowledge of God they are certainly not perfect.

being perfect is more than what other preachers say it is

I have listened to and talked with Preachers for the last 45 years. A tiny fraction of them understand the teaching of perfection. Some teach an "imputed righteousness" much different than the way Paul taught it. They say God does not see their sins he only sees Jesus.

but you know what perfect actually means

Well yes I do. But I never said anywhere NO ONE ELSE does. I said very few do.

perfect isn't just "complete" - it also means "obedience"

True. Complete needs definition. Paul said this:

12Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

A Christian is to be perfect and complete as concerning what?

ALL THE WILL OF GOD!

So yes one could say "be complete as a Christian". But if their definition of complete does not include doing Gods will it would leave the Christian in confusion.

And unlike others, you keep all the commandments, thus, you are perfect.

TK, would you tell me where I said this? Which video? The time on the video?

I dont believe I have ever made that statement so if its in my video please point it out.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

TK, would you tell me where I said this? Which video? The time on the video?

I dont believe I have ever made that statement so if its in my video please point it out.

You do and you also said it here:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have listened to and talked with Preachers for the last 45 years. A tiny fraction of them understand the teaching of perfection. Some teach an "imputed righteousness" much different than the way Paul taught it. They say God does not see their sins he only sees Jesus.

Many times you use wording making you 'more perfect' than them. In the above, you use: "A tiny fraction," "some teach," and "they say." You then differentiate that group from your more perfect understanding and your more perfect faith. Thus, "...unlike others, you keep all the commandments, thus, you are perfect."

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Bro. Benincasa's link goes to a study he has on my Website. This is his study:

Among Them that are Perfect

The Apostle Paul spoke intelligently to those who were “mature” in the faith. This would be to those who were complete in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that ARE PERFECT: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

As a result, it is safe to say that Paul knew that there were others who were spiritually mature in Christ. Yet, the Apostle Peter praises Paul for his level of understanding, indicating that as far as the Apostle Peter was concerned, Paul had mature understanding of the scriptures. Also, that Paul’s writings were equal with the same authority as the scriptures of the Hebrew Bible.

2 Peter 3:15-16
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

But, let us look at what Paul was saying to the Philippian church. Here the Apostle begins to give his qualifications, that he was a Hebrew of Hebrews, as concerning the Law blameless without fault, yet, he counted it all as nothing that he may obtain Christ. The Apostle Paul makes the statement that he didn’t count himself as having attained the level which he was looking for, which doesn’t mean, that he wasn’t spiritually mature, or at a higher level than others around him. Because the Apostle Paul then goes on to say….

Philippians 3:14-16
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have ALREADY ATTAINED, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Again, Paul points to those who he considered as spiritually mature in Christ, but then goes on to say (including himself) as to what they have attained they were to keep pressing on further towards that high calling in Christ. This they should do while always leaving behind carnal religious works and credentials, which amount to nothing. In Philippians 3:17, the Apostle Paul gives himself as an example to the Body of Christ. This example should be noted and followed.

Philippians 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Was the Apostle Paul mature, and spiritually complete? The scripture would indicate that he was, but he believed that he could go even farther. Therefore the Apostle encouraged all those in the Body of Christ to also go further, and reach towards a high level of spiritual maturity in Christ Jesus.

Did Jesus expect His followers to become complete and spiritually mature? Yes, because Jesus Himself told us to be perfect as the Father was perfect. If it couldn’t be attained, then why would He tell us to “be” something, which was impossible to reach?

The Apostle Paul tells us that when he was a child, he spake as a child, he understood as a child, he thought as a child: but when he became a man, he put away childish things. When he became a man, fully mature spiritually. There comes a time when we are no longer looking at a blurred self-image of ourselves in Christ, but we see as God sees us. Therefore, Paul taught that the duty of the ministry was to encourage those in the church to press on towards the high calling in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:28
Whom we preach, WARNING every man, and TEACHING every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man PERFECT in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 4:12
Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand PERFECT and COMPLETE in ALL the will of God.

Paul taught that we were to press on to be able to stand spiritually mature in all the will of God. Not our own human carnal will, but God’s will, His leading of His Spirit. Therefore, the Apostle goes on to say…..

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of JUST MEN MADE PERFECT,

We are told that the just will live by faith, and warned NOT to turn back.

Hebrews 10:38-39
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

So, obeying God, and following God without drawing back, while pressing on to the high calling in Christ Jesus brings believers to maturity. So, is it possible to attain? It most certainly is.

Did Paul reach spiritual maturity? The scripture seems to indicate that he did. Just that the Apostle believed he could go even higher.

Hebrews 13:20-21
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you PERFECT in EVERY good work to DO HIS WILL, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Copyright © 2012 DD Benincasa.

Better than most teaching I hear on perfection these days. I dont disagree with anything there really.

One can certainly be mature in Christ and still go deeper in him.

There are 2 levels of perfection. The one is "sinless" perfection. This is the one I probably point to the most. Why? Because I dont hear it taught. It needs to be heard. One wont enter Gods Kingdom with sin in their life.

The other perfection/maturity is going deeper in knowledge and experience in God. Thats what Paul meant here.

Phil. 3:7-11

7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

You would think Paul HAD attained to all he needed.

Phil. 3:12-16

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Paul says he is not perfect in verse12. We know that does NOT mean he had sin in his life.

Why? He told the Thessalonians:

1 Thess 2:10

10Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

So here Paul calls God for a witness that his life is blameless. We can be pretty sure he was not telling the Philippians he was not perfect as to having sin in his life.

What he means is he wants to KNOW CHRIST MORE FULLY. He has not experienced all the power of Christ he knows is available. He wants to be more conformed to his image. He had attained a lot but wanted more.

Even in this he does not feel he can slow down. He actually says he's doing all he is doing that he may ATTAIN TO THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD! Verse 11.

In verse 15 Paul says he and others ARE perfect. Tho its another Greek word they mean much the same. My view is he IS perfect in verse 15 means there is no sin in his life presently. Verse 12

He had attained to overcoming sin but theres more to the Christian life than JUST that. He had not yet attained to the resurrection because his race wasn't over. There were more experiences to be had. More of Gods power to walk in. More suffering to go through. More denying self.

His EXPERIENCE in Christ was not yet FULL.....in the sense of "complete" or "finished".