Is the UPCI Expecting Too Much out of Television?

[SiblingRevelry]

I went to another church yesterday, and the pastor was talking about how they had a couple of commercials that they were going to start running soon on the Family Channel and FX. This thought occurred to me as I was listening to the pastor talk, "Are these people expecting too much out of television to bring people to church?" It just seemed to me there was a lot of naivety about what television could do, in part because the people who were making the decisions about advertising really didn't have (or aren't supposed to have) a lot of experience with TV. Or maybe I'm just naive? I don't think that being on TV is going to have the kind of effect that some people expect it to have.

I wonder what you all think of this--if I'm up in the night or if I'm on to something.

(Disclaimer: I have a 27 inch one-eyed Idol of Television downstairs in my living room. However I've found that I watch far more television of the sports variety with my father at my parents' house than I watch at home.)

[StillStanding]

Excellent thoughts! Some maybe are expecting too high a return on their TV advertising budget. Either way, at least they are trying another way to reach people with the message.

[Aquila]

The most television ads will do is give the church more exposure in the local community. More people will be able to say, "Oh, you go to the church I saw on tv." It's still going to take one on one evangelism. It might break the ice. I think we've all been there and done that when we were witnessing and someone said, "Apostolic? What's that?", or, "Apostolic Church? Where's that at?" A few people might be looking for a church and they may like the ad and visist. But it will never take the place of one on one evangelism.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Television advertising can do some good, but it can't replace other evangelism efforts.

[HeavenlyOne]

I went to another church yesterday, and the pastor was talking about how they had a couple of commercials that they were going to start running soon on the Family Channel and FX. This thought occurred to me as I was listening to the pastor talk, "Are these people expecting too much out of television to bring people to church?" It just seemed to me there was a lot of naivety about what television could do, in part because the people who were making the decisions about advertising really didn't have (or aren't supposed to have) a lot of experience with TV. Or maybe I'm just naive? I don't think that being on TV is going to have the kind of effect that some people expect it to have.

I wonder what you all think of this--if I'm up in the night or if I'm on to something.

(Disclaimer: I have a 27 inch one-eyed Idol of Television downstairs in my living room. However I've found that I watch far more television of the sports variety with my father at my parents' house than I watch at home.)

TV advertising has a great effect on everything from upcoming shows to what to buy for Christmas, to what detergent is better than another, and even prescription medications are advertised.

There are also lots of churches from various religions that advertise. If it didn't work, it would seem to me that they would have quit a long time ago.

And in this day and age, TV is more effective at communication than radio (except in the UPC).

TV is just a medium for advertising. It's no different at being effective than radio, newspaper, or a billboard.

[John Atkinson]

In a nutshell... Yeah. Probably.

It is a tool to get the word out. But personal evangelism wins souls. TV can be a means to get the church in front of the community. I wouldn't expect more than that.

[HeavenlyOne]

In a nutshell... Yeah. Probably.

It is a tool to get the word out. But personal evangelism wins souls. TV can be a means to get the church in front of the community. I wouldn't expect more than that.

You are correct. It's no different than radio, internet, or billboard evangelism. It's just a tool to reach out to others, but when you take them by the hand, that's where personal evangelism comes in.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

You are correct. It's no different than radio, internet, or billboard evangelism. It's just a tool to reach out to others, but when you take them by the hand, that's where personal evangelism comes in.

Programs for Evangelism seldom work.
I remember the McLain's and USAToday ads for Pentecost Sunday being decried as too expensive and so the whole Pentecost Sunday program seems to have been killed.

The UPCI does a very poor job on evangelism. Even training in personal evangelism is very sparse at best.

[TRFrance]

I have no issues with TV per se, but.. Dollar for dollar, television is probably one of the least cost-effective ways of reaching the community.

If churches have this idea that running ads on TV will cause a significant spike in church attendance numbers, they're probably going to be in for a rude awakening.

Still, I think overall it could be a good thing, in terms of putting the apostolic church out in the public eye. Its still amazing to me how many adults out there have no idea what "Apostolic" even means. Its really time for us to move out of he shadows. If TV helps the Apostolic movement to move from the side alleys onto Main Street (as far as public awareness of us) that could well bear positive fruit in the long run.

[Pastor G]

I went to another church yesterday, and the pastor was talking about how they had a couple of commercials that they were going to start running soon on the Family Channel and FX. This thought occurred to me as I was listening to the pastor talk, "Are these people expecting too much out of television to bring people to church?" It just seemed to me there was a lot of naivety about what television could do, in part because the people who were making the decisions about advertising really didn't have (or aren't supposed to have) a lot of experience with TV. Or maybe I'm just naive? I don't think that being on TV is going to have the kind of effect that some people expect it to have.

I wonder what you all think of this--if I'm up in the night or if I'm on to something.

(Disclaimer: I have a 27 inch one-eyed Idol of Television downstairs in my living room. However I've found that I watch far more television of the sports variety with my father at my parents' house than I watch at home.)

If you had gone to that church and they announced that they were about to put a couple of billboards up in their city, would you have started a post, asking the question if they were expecting too much from billboard advertising?

When you call the TV advertising company in my city, they ask questions like: who are you trying to reach, women, men, kids or families? what is the point you are trying to get across? what goal are you trying to achieve with this add? Then they give you a couple of names of commercial producers to help you achieve that goal...

They don't have to have a lot of experience with TV to place effective commercials... I have done it and it works!!! And is actually a cheaper form of advertising in my area that billboards..

[HeavenlyOne]

I have no issues with TV per se, but.. Dollar for dollar, television is probably one of the least cost-effective ways of reaching the community.

If churches have this idea that running ads on TV will cause a significant spike in church attendance numbers, they're probably going to be in for a rude awakening.

Still, I think overall it could be a good thing, in terms of putting the apostolic church out in the public eye. Its still amazing to me how many adults out there have no idea what "Apostolic" even means. Its really time for us to move out of he shadows. If TV helps the Apostolic movement to move from the side alleys onto Main Street (as far as public awareness of us) that could well bear positive fruit in the long run.

Cable TV is better for cost effectiveness!

I lived in southern Illinois where small churches even advertised. Couldn't have been that expensive or they couldn't have afforded it.

[deltaguitar]

Cable TV is better for cost effectiveness!

I lived in southern Illinois where small churches even advertised. Couldn't have been that expensive or they couldn't have afforded it.

TV is not expensive. We are starting to air a 30 min broadcast at 11:30 on Saturdays. The cost is $125.00 per week. Sometimes the TV station will repeat the broadcast late at night. We will also be on cable which is $15 per week.

Just think of the cost of gas for knocking doors or even going out to eat after church on Sunday nights.

Do I think it is going to increase our attendance or membership? Not really. But it can be an outreach and maybe a blessing to someone in our community.

[SiblingRevelry]

TV is not expensive. We are starting to air a 30 min broadcast at 11:30 on Saturdays. The cost is $125.00 per week. Sometimes the TV station will repeat the broadcast late at night. We will also be on cable which is $15 per week.


Now, see, here's where I was naive. I honestly thought it would be more expensive than that! $125/week for 30 minutes is not very expensive at all.

(Looks forward to explosion of apostolic church services on cable...)

[Carpenter]

Based on what I heard this weekend, the church is being called for 30 days of prayer and fasting to determine IF and or HOW the church is going to engage in the TV advertising issue.

Either that or the 30 days of praying and fasting is to help the Pastor to make a decision or to respond appropriately to the goings on in Tulsa here soon.

The SIL, a well known and very conservative evangelist in the UPC movment I am sure is putting pressure on the situation.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Cable TV is better for cost effectiveness!

I lived in southern Illinois where small churches even advertised. Couldn't have been that expensive or they couldn't have afforded it.

Wait, this is a UPC church that advertised on television prior to this year?

[ManOfWord]

Having done TV advertising before, even if you air a 30 sec spot and get the spots down to $12 per, you still need a "saturation" airing if you expect it to do any good. We couldn't afford a saturation airing and 6yrs ago had a $300/mo budget for TV. It wasn't near enough.

Still, it gave us "product awareness" but it wasn't a big boon.

Our recent radio spots brought more results than out TV did. However, we aired them quite a bit on 3 stations at once and had a good saturation rate as well. That was $500/mo and it was well worth it. :D

[TRFrance]

Having done TV advertising before, even if you air a 30 sec spot and get the spots down to $12 per, you still need a "saturation" airing if you expect it to do any good. We couldn't afford a saturation airing and 6yrs ago had a $300/mo budget for TV. It wasn't near enough.

Still, it gave us "product awareness" but it wasn't a big boon.

Our recent radio spots brought more results than out TV did. However, we aired them quite a bit on 3 stations at once and had a good saturation rate as well. That was $500/mo and it was well worth it. :D

Frankly, I seriously doubt the effectiveness of 30-or 60 second spots.
I think churches are better off getting a 1/2 hour spot on Public Access cable TV (free in most areas, as far as I know) and letting people see the church in action... the worshiping, singing, and some preaching. Hopefully the church would have a website, and they could have the church's web address at the bottom of the screen during the whole program.

Then, in effect you have a 1/2 hour "advertisement" for the church and the gospel, which will probably have a lot more impact than a bunch of 30-second ad spots.

[RandyWayne]

Frankly, I seriously doubt the effectiveness of 30-or 60 second spots.
I think churches are better off getting a 1/2 hour spot on Public Access cable TV (free in most areas, as far as I know) and letting people see the church in action... the worshiping, singing, and some preaching. Hopefully the church would have a website, and they could have the church's web address at the bottom of the screen during the whole program.

Then, in effect you have a 1/2 hour "advertisement" for the church and the gospel, which will probably have a lot more impact than a bunch of 30-second ad spots.

Our free 30 minute spots have had a great effect over the years!

[TRFrance]

Our free 30 minute spots have had a great effect over the years!

A great effect?
Sounds good.
Tell us about it.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Frankly, I seriously doubt the effectiveness of 30-or 60 second spots.
I think churches are better off getting a 1/2 hour spot on Public Access cable TV (free in most areas, as far as I know) and letting people see the church in action... the worshiping, singing, and some preaching. Hopefully the church would have a website, and they could have the church's web address at the bottom of the screen during the whole program.

Then, in effect you have a 1/2 hour "advertisement" for the church and the gospel, which will probably have a lot more impact than a bunch of 30-second ad spots.

Our free 30 minute spots have had a great effect over the years!


I have a CD the General Youth Division produced one year of hard hitting Radio spots. Another good idea that was never brought to pass.

TRFrance, I would invest in Radio promos in drive time before any other advertising except door knocking and personal contact.

[TRFrance]

TRFrance, I would invest in Radio promos in drive time before any other advertising except door knocking and personal contact.

I hear you, but if the local cable company is giving free 1/2 hour spots on Public Access TV, then I'd say GRAB IT.

[Hoovie]

I have never expected much from TV - or an ad in a glossy coffee table magazine for that matter - HOWEVER, the fact that the UPC took a step towards consistency is a wonderful thing!

I know... go ahead, make my day!

[TRFrance]

I have never expected much from TV - or an ad in a glossy coffee table magazine for that matter - HOWEVER, the fact that the UPC took a step towards consistency is a wonderful thing!


I agree. This should have been done years ago. Some of the UC's might get mad, but in principle, this is the reasonable move to make.

Good to see the UPCI leaders making a principled stand, even if it means alienating some of the UC's. Those who choose to leave... we'll miss them, but they're free to go. The Lord's work will go on.

[mizpeh]

They don't have to have a lot of experience with TV to place effective commercials... I have done it and it works!!! And is actually a cheaper form of advertising in my area that billboards..

What were your results?

[HeavenlyOne]

Frankly, I seriously doubt the effectiveness of 30-or 60 second spots.
I think churches are better off getting a 1/2 hour spot on Public Access cable TV (free in most areas, as far as I know) and letting people see the church in action... the worshiping, singing, and some preaching. Hopefully the church would have a website, and they could have the church's web address at the bottom of the screen during the whole program.

Then, in effect you have a 1/2 hour "advertisement" for the church and the gospel, which will probably have a lot more impact than a bunch of 30-second ad spots.

Does it take you 30 minutes to witness to others? I mean, just to tell them about your church?

I've often only had a minute or two to tell someone about God. That's all it takes to plant a seed.

[Praxeas]

I went to another church yesterday, and the pastor was talking about how they had a couple of commercials that they were going to start running soon on the Family Channel and FX. This thought occurred to me as I was listening to the pastor talk, "Are these people expecting too much out of television to bring people to church?" It just seemed to me there was a lot of naivety about what television could do, in part because the people who were making the decisions about advertising really didn't have (or aren't supposed to have) a lot of experience with TV. Or maybe I'm just naive? I don't think that being on TV is going to have the kind of effect that some people expect it to have.

I wonder what you all think of this--if I'm up in the night or if I'm on to something.

(Disclaimer: I have a 27 inch one-eyed Idol of Television downstairs in my living room. However I've found that I watch far more television of the sports variety with my father at my parents' house than I watch at home.)
I don't read anywhere in your post where you quoted the pastors expectation....therefore I can't comment on anyone as to whether they expect too much or not

[Praxeas]

Does it take you 30 minutes to witness to others? I mean, just to tell them about your church?

I've often only had a minute or two to tell someone about God. That's all it takes to plant a seed.
that's not witnessing. Thats advertisement via word of mouth for your church

[Praxeas]

I have never expected much from TV - or an ad in a glossy coffee table magazine for that matter - HOWEVER, the fact that the UPC took a step towards consistency is a wonderful thing!

I know... go ahead, make my day!
Hoover....has TV changed you much? I mean since the "show"...are you different?

[ManOfWord]

What someone really needs to do, is have a marketing plan. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. If you want them to come to your church and LISTEN to what you have to say, then you have to give them a reason.

Our "No Religion Zone" commercials really got people's attention. That is how we are "branding" our church differently than all the other churches in our area. We're not condemning any other church or mentioning any other church. We just tell people, "If you're looking for religion, don NOT attend New Life Church." That is our brand. If fact, my avatar is our trademark.

A church can choose to use anything it want to "brand" itself: i.e. "We're the church who speaks with tongues" "We're the church who shockamoos" etc, just make sure that it strikes a chord with John Q. Sinner.

If we have the greatest message the world has heard, then we need to, by all means, bring them in to hear it!

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k187/manofword/DVD2.jpg

Here is something I made. It is a mini-DVD that I give out like a business card and also leave around town wherever I go. It is about a 12 min video talking about religion vs relationship, our nursery, G-Force etc.

[Hoovie]

Hoover....has TV changed you much? I mean since the "show"...are you different?

Oh, I did not mean my post as a reference to our TV stint.

But to answer your question... It has changed me a bit, I can honestly say it has held me accountable - while not so often as six months ago, people still recognize me/us and want to talk about the show. Almost without exception we discuss the Lord, family, and value systems etc.

[pelathais]

I went to another church yesterday, and the pastor was talking about how they had a couple of commercials that they were going to start running soon on the Family Channel and FX. This thought occurred to me as I was listening to the pastor talk, "Are these people expecting too much out of television to bring people to church?" It just seemed to me there was a lot of naivety about what television could do, in part because the people who were making the decisions about advertising really didn't have (or aren't supposed to have) a lot of experience with TV. Or maybe I'm just naive? I don't think that being on TV is going to have the kind of effect that some people expect it to have.

I wonder what you all think of this--if I'm up in the night or if I'm on to something.

(Disclaimer: I have a 27 inch one-eyed Idol of Television downstairs in my living room. However I've found that I watch far more television of the sports variety with my father at my parents' house than I watch at home.)
I don't know if the UPCI as whole is "expecting too much." There's probably a range of opinions, and given how close the voting is on this issue it's probably not correct to characterize the entire fellowship one way or the other.

TV ministry and advertising has to be targeted to be effective, unless you've got a lot of resources. In that case you can begin to "sow seeds," or try to use your programming to influence public opinion and public perception of your message and issue that are important to you. In the realm of influence you may not see results initially and have to be patient. And that's where the "resources" are needed as well.

If you're simply looking to attract people to your local assembly, then there's better ways to do that; and more cost effective ways. Though given the relative low costs of cable advertising, you might be able to have a successful campaign at an affordable price.

I think the UPCI has an opportunity right now to redefine "tele-evangelism." They could really make an impact. Most people think of "tele-evangelism" in rather negative terms. Being a "fresh face," the UPC could shake things up in the right sort of way if they did things right. If they just follow the crowd that has gone before, they will have blown an incredible opportunity.

[stmatthew]

I don't know if the UPCI as whole is "expecting too much." There's probably a range of opinions, and given how close the voting is on this issue it's probably not correct to characterize the entire fellowship one way or the other.

TV ministry and advertising has to be targeted to be effective, unless you've got a lot of resources. In that case you can begin to "sow seeds," or try to use your programming to influence public opinion and public perception of your message and issue that are important to you. In the realm of influence you may not see results initially and have to be patient. And that's where the "resources" are needed as well.

If you're simply looking to attract people to your local assembly, then there's better ways to do that; and more cost effective ways. Though given the relative low costs of cable advertising, you might be able to have a successful campaign at an affordable price.

I think the UPCI has an opportunity right now to redefine "tele-evangelism." They could really make an impact. Most people think of "tele-evangelism" in rather negative terms. Being a "fresh face," the UPC could shake things up in the right sort of way if they did things right. If they just follow the crowd that has gone before, they will have blown an incredible opportunity.

I am not a tv advocate. But I was thinking the other day of the old tv programs of Oral Robert, AA Allen, and others. What would it do to the community if the local church televised healings, deliverance, and miracles to the community. I am not talking about planted folks, but legitimate healings. Could a real showing of the real power and glory of a mighty God touch some of those that would otherwise not be touched?

[Pastor G]

What were your results?


Over 100 guest for the event I advertised....

[Jekyll]

My quick take - Religious TV ads do one of two things - they make the slob in the recliner change the channel or they make the grandmas send in the money.

[PastorD]

My quick take - Religious TV ads do one of two things - they make the slob in the recliner change the channel or they make the grandmas send in the money.

Or...they cause over 100 first time guests come to G's church for event.

[HeavenlyOne]

My quick take - Religious TV ads do one of two things - they make the slob in the recliner change the channel or they make the grandmas send in the money.

I suppose we can take a wild guess as to which of the two you are....

[TRFrance]

Does it take you 30 minutes to witness to others? I mean, just to tell them about your church?

I've often only had a minute or two to tell someone about God. That's all it takes to plant a seed.

No, heavenly one, I'm not saying it takes me 30 minutes to witness to someone (although, yes ...depending on the conversation and situation, sometimes it can take hat long or longer).

My point is, that a longer program will give people more of a message that can impact them more deeply than a 30 second spot. The bible does say that by the foolishness of preaching God saves them that believe. So rather than rely on 30 second sound bites and slogans and the church name/address/phone number in a short ad, ... why not focus on giving them something more substantial if we can, especially if it can be done free (as it is in most parts of the country)?

[Jekyll]

I suppose we can take a wild guess as to which of the two you are....
Guilty...I even have a red suit... :santaclaus lol

BUT I DON'T EVEN OWN A DV!!

[Jekyll]

Or...they cause over 100 first time guests come to G's church for event.
Oh, that's toooo easy...

[Jekyll]

Yeah, those ads for the LDS really have you going...until you realize they are the Moro...I mean the Mormons...

[HeavenlyOne]

No, heavenly one, I'm not saying it takes me 30 minutes to witness to someone (although, yes ...depending on the conversation and situation, sometimes it can take hat long or longer).

My point is, that a longer program will give people more of a message that can impact them more deeply than a 30 second spot. The bible does say that by the foolishness of preaching God saves them that believe. So rather than rely on 30 second sound bites and slogans and the church name/address/phone number in a short ad, ... why not focus on giving them something more substantial if we can, especially if it can be done free (as it is in most parts of the country)?

Takes a lot more money and time for a 30 minute slot than a 30 second one.

If someone is searching, they don't need the 30 minute sermon on TV. They just need to know where to go. Other religions advertise in this manner also.

If I'm looking for a deal, bargain, or new store, I'm not looking for a virtual tour. However, an advertisement will catch my eye everytime!!

Maybe it's because I'm a woman, I don't know.....

[Jekyll]

Over 100 guest for the event I advertised....
Congrats, BTW

[HeavenlyOne]

Guilty...I even have a red suit... :santaclaus lol

BUT I DON'T EVEN OWN A DV!!

ROFL!!

I just couldn't resist you stepping right into that one!

[TRFrance]

Takes a lot more money and time for a 30 minute slot than a 30 second one.

If someone is searching, they don't need the 30 minute sermon on TV. They just need to know where to go. Other religions advertise in this manner also.

If I'm looking for a deal, bargain, or new store, I'm not looking for a virtual tour. However, an advertisement will catch my eye everytime!!

Maybe it's because I'm a woman, I don't know.....

Heavenly, do they have free Public Access cable in your town? I'm assuming they do, because a 1984 law requires it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_access)of all Cable companies nationwide. All you need is someone to videotape the church service (or just the sermon itself) , and then have someone edit the tape down to 30 minutes... and the cable companies are required to provide training in the media/video technology needed to produce the actual programs. I remember inquiring at a New York cable company when I was living there, and they had classes for people to sign up and learn video editing, etc on behalf of their community organization..

To me, its a no-brainer: If you run a regular 30 second ad on commercial TV, you have to pay for it of course, but if you run a non-profit program on Public Access, theres no cost. So isn't that a pretty good deal?

Not saying for 30 second spots is a bad idea, but if the govt has provided a way for us to get 30 minute programs on for free, why not take advantage of it? Frankly, this is probably something we should have been doing a long time ago.

[HeavenlyOne]

Heavenly, do they have free Public Access cable in your town? I'm assuming they do, because a 1984 law requires it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_access)of all Cable companies nationwide. All you need is someone to videotape the church service (or just the sermon itself) , and then have someone edit the tape down to 30 minutes... and the cable companies are required to provide training in the media/video technology needed to produce the actual programs. I remember inquiring at a New York cable company when I was living there, and they had classes for people to sign up and learn video editing, etc on behalf of their community organization..

To me, its a no-brainer: If you run a regular 30 second ad on commercial TV, you have to pay for it of course, but if you run a non-profit program on Public Access, theres no cost. So isn't that a pretty good deal?

Not saying for 30 second spots is a bad idea, but if the govt has provided a way for us to get 30 minute programs on for free, why not take advantage of it? Frankly, this is probably something we should have been doing a long time ago.

I can agree with that, but not every church is interested in videoing their services but are happy with a 30 second commercial ad instead.

For instance, the church my kids attend don't have many people in church, so videotaping wouldn't be a good idea. An ad sure would be nice, however.

With larger churches, videotaped services are quite interesting, and I've watched them online and have enjoyed myself.

What works for one might not work for another, but it's all good in the end, and if results are seen, let's do it, right? ;)