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Rhoni
05-10-2008, 11:38 AM
When the following clip came to my attention, I felt it was imperative to pass it on to others. Our country is in very dangerous place during this election year and we need to be aware of the facts concerning potential presidential candidates. Please view the following clip and then pass it on. It gives factual evidence of what Barak Hussein Obama is really all about—our liberties to serve God are at stake more than ever before.

It is time to pray for our nation—II Chronicles 7:14!






http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036 (http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036)

Esther
05-10-2008, 12:25 PM
When the following clip came to my attention, I felt it was imperative to pass it on to others. Our country is in very dangerous place during this election year and we need to be aware of the facts concerning potential presidential candidates. Please view the following clip and then pass it on. It gives factual evidence of what Barak Hussein Obama is really all about—our liberties to serve God are at stake more than ever before.

It is time to pray for our nation—II Chronicles 7:14!






http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036 (http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036)


Very, very scary!

I PRAY he does NOT get elected!

Sister Alvear
05-10-2008, 12:32 PM
It is more than I can understand why our nation wants that guy elected...I think I could tell you why he has so many votes but it would not be proper to do that...Wake up America...please, wake up.

Brother Price
05-10-2008, 12:33 PM
I am voting 3rd party, and this simply confirms it.

Esther
05-10-2008, 12:43 PM
A friend shared with me she had a dream in Feb that he won the election and was told "Now the fear begins".

Scary, scary. Odd that she told me this morning and then Rhoni post this today also.

I guess the Lord wants me to really get a grip on this.

I sincerely PRAY that we can stop this happening!

Ron
05-10-2008, 12:48 PM
I think this election for you guys it is a case of door # 1, #2, or #3 & behind each one is a
lousy choice with pain & suffering behind it.

Anyone up for some enie, meanie, miney, moe?:hypercoffee

Esther
05-10-2008, 12:53 PM
I think this election for you guys it is a case of door # 1, #2, or #3 & behind each one is a
lousy choice with pain & suffering behind it.

Anyone up for some enie, meanie, miney, moe?:hypercoffee

We have nothing worth choosing from this year for sure!

But I may have to make an effort to vote AGAINST Obama!

Sherri
05-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Very scary video! I've always been against Obama, just because he has too many ties to Muslims, and would be sympathetic toward them if there was a conflict.

Rhoni
05-10-2008, 01:33 PM
Very scary video! I've always been against Obama, just because he has too many ties to Muslims, and would be sympathetic toward them if there was a conflict.


Sis, Sherri,

This is the beginning of the end...don't you think? Things are falling into place to make it easy for the Anit-Christ to set up himself as the one to bring peace to the nations but just when we think all is well... We are in the time of the mark of the beast, one world government, and the chip in our hand or forehead to buy and sell. It is extremely possible for a cashless society to be set up and is being set up. The church needs to be aware.

Blessings, Rhoni

Sister Alvear
05-10-2008, 01:34 PM
Dito, Sherri...if only the Americans knew what we do about the foreign fields...

Sister Alvear
05-10-2008, 01:35 PM
Thanks Rhoni for posting...I see things shaping up...America does not know what is on her door steps...

Sherri
05-10-2008, 01:45 PM
Sis, Sherri,

This is the beginning of the end...don't you think? Things are falling into place to make it easy for the Anit-Christ to set up himself as the one to bring peace to the nations but just when we think all is well... We are in the time of the mark of the beast, one world government, and the chip in our hand or forehead to buy and sell. It is extremely possible for a cashless society to be set up and is being set up. The church needs to be aware.

Blessings, Rhoni
I totally agree.

Mrs. LPW
05-10-2008, 02:06 PM
2 Peter Chapter 3

Permit me to post the entire chapter. For those of you who don't like long scripture readings... you can skip this. :)
1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I'm looking for His coming.

Sam
05-10-2008, 02:10 PM
I am voting 3rd party, and this simply confirms it.

Third party?
what's that?

why would anyone vote FOR someone who has no chance to be elected when he/she could vote for someone who may not embody everything you believe/stand for but is by far closer than someone like the 2 "H's" Hillary and Hussein?

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 02:13 PM
The flag of Marxist Che Guevara in his Houston campaign office was interesting, to say the least. Notice how the media hasn't said much about that.

Now if there was a neo-Nazi or KKK flag hanging in one of John McCain's campaign offices, do you think the media would give him a free pass?

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 02:14 PM
Who knows.... It might actually be God's will that Obama wins.
Perhaps his presidency will hasten the downfall of our country, as punishment for its many sins.

The Lord does work in mysterious ways, they say.

Sam
05-10-2008, 02:33 PM
Who knows.... It might actually be God's will that Obama wins.
Perhaps his presidency will hasten the downfall of our country, as punishment for its many sins.

The Lord does work in mysterious ways, they say.

God has a plan and is working things out according to that plan.

For example, in Isaiah chapter 45, the prophet speaks of one to come who is named Cyrus and who is God's anointed person. Isaiah wrote and prophesied around 739 to 686 B.C. On October 29, 539 B.C. this man Cyrus defeated Babylon. According to tradition, Daniel showed the prophecy of Isaiah to Cyrus and he was impressed that the Hebrew Scriptures spoke of him by name almost 200 years before. He had defeated the Babylonians and allowed Israel to return to their land.

Habakkuk wrote about how God would use Babylon to chastise Israel and then would in turn suffer chastisement from YHVH.

In Daniel we read how God would work out His plan through Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome before some of those groups were world powers.

All we can do is work and vote against what we think is wrong (abortion, homosexuality, socialist type government, media based morality, etc) and trust that God will place in power the person through whom He can work our His plan. If the person we voted against gets in office, all we can do is accept that as the will of God and trust in His grace to help us meet the challenges that come our way.

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 02:37 PM
When the following clip came to my attention, I felt it was imperative to pass it on to others. Our country is in very dangerous place during this election year and we need to be aware of the facts concerning potential presidential candidates. Please view the following clip and then pass it on. It gives factual evidence of what Barak Hussein Obama is really all about—our liberties to serve God are at stake more than ever before.

It is time to pray for our nation—II Chronicles 7:14!






http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036 (http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036)

WOW...talk about a POLEMIC!

Seriously, there are good factual and honest reason to NOT vote for this man. He is a socialist. He is way too liberal compared to past Democratic presidents.

None of which are "his father was a muslim"...in fact his father was a secularist muslim...in other words he would even be an infidel to most Muslims. Obama was raised by his Christian grandparents.

I get tired of these kinds of polemics because they fire off in the wrong direction when the real reasons we should not vote for him are far more insidious than having a muslim background.

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 02:38 PM
I'd rather have Hillery than Obama honestly. I see Hillery taking a lot of shots by Conservatives too....if they were really on the ball they would focus more on Obama just in case McCain loses

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 02:58 PM
WOW...talk about a POLEMIC!

Seriously, there are good factual and honest reason to NOT vote for this man. He is a socialist. He is way too liberal compared to past Democratic presidents.

None of which are "his father was a muslim"...in fact his father was a secularist muslim...in other words he would even be an infidel to most Muslims. Obama was raised by his Christian grandparents.

I get tired of these kinds of polemics because they fire off in the wrong direction when the real reasons we should not vote for him are far more insidious than having a muslim background.

I hear you, Prax.
the Muslim thing is a non-issue with me personally, but that was a small part of the video. Did you watch the whole thing? its 13 minutes long.

Apart from the muslim thing, the video raised a lot of valid points.. such as... Jeremiah Wright, che Guevara's flag, his refusing to wear an American flag, not holding his hand over his heart while the national anthem was being sung... etc.. (Even if he feels he has legitimate reasons for it, the national anthem thing, and the flag pin thing show an astounding lack of judgment, since he must know full well that many Americans would find his behavior on this to be offensive)


These are legitimate issues that deserve consideration. Not to mention his association with former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, legitimate questions about his true feelings regarding Israel (http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-are-obamas-real-views-regarding.html), and other issues I'll not get into right now. The fact is, this guy has more baggage than a 747. Its just a question of how of this is going to become widely known, and how much the media will sweep under the rug.

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 03:10 PM
I hear you, Prax.
the Muslim thing is a non-issue with me personally, but that was a small part of the video. Did you watch the whole thing? its 13 minutes long.

Apart from the muslim thing, the video raised a lot of valid points.. such as... Jeremiah Wright, che Guevara's flag, his refusing to wear an American flag, not holding his hand over his heart while the national anthem was being sung... etc.. (Even if he feels he has legitimate reasons for it, the national anthem thing, and the flag pin thing show an astounding lack of judgment, since he must know full well that many Americans would find his behavior on this to be offensive)


These are legitimate issues that deserve consideration. Not to mention his association with former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, legitimate questions about his true feelings regarding Israel (http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-are-obamas-real-views-regarding.html), and other issues I'll not get into right now. The fact is, this guy has more baggage than a 747. Its just a question of how of this is going to become widely known, and how much the media will sweep under the rug.
Did Obama say with his own mouth that he refuses to wear a flag pin? And did Obama say with his own mouth that he refuses to salute the flag? See a polemic can make anyone look bad if done the right way. They took an isolated event where the camera supposedly catches him not covering his heart...does he do that all the time? Did he forget? I don't know.

The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=Iraq%20war&sid=breitbart.com) that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.
"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."
On Thursday, his campaign issued a statement: "We all revere the flag, but Senator Obama believes that being a patriot is about more than a symbol. It's about fighting for our veterans when they get home and speaking honestly with the American people about this disastrous war. (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=disastrous%20war&sid=breitbart.com)"

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2K3UO0&show_article=1

Mrs. LPW
05-10-2008, 03:37 PM
I could only watch a little bit of the video because of time restraints and even now can't get back to it right away, but I did see the part where Obama in an interview said he wouldn't wear the flag pin.. and I saw the video clip where he would not put his hand over his heart.

That would red flag me if I were an American. In Canada we don't usually put our hands over our hearts during the national athem... we stand at attention with hands at sides as a general rule. But if I were American.. where virtually everyone puts the hand over the heart, it would make me wonder.

I don't envy the United States and thier decision to be made. I do pray for you though.

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 03:51 PM
Not wearing a red flag is NOT an official snub of anything. How many of you Americans are wearing US flags right now on your shirts? Look, if he is a deceptive person why not just wear the flag to throw us all off? Why explain later

The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=Iraq%20war&sid=breitbart.com) that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.


"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."


On Thursday, his campaign issued a statement: "We all revere the flag, but Senator Obama believes that being a patriot is about more than a symbol. It's about fighting for our veterans when they get home and speaking honestly with the American people about this disastrous war. (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=disastrous%20war&sid=breitbart.com)"???

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 04:06 PM
Did Obama say with his own mouth that he refuses to wear a flag pin? And did Obama say with his own mouth that he refuses to salute the flag? See a polemic can make anyone look bad if done the right way. They took an isolated event where the camera supposedly catches him not covering his heart...does he do that all the time? Did he forget? I don't know.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2K3UO0&show_article=1

Again, I must ask if you actually watched the video.

1... Yes, he explained "from his own moth" why he does not wear an American flag pin. His decision to stop wearing it, was in part, over the Iraq war. Whether or not one is satisfied with his explanation is up the individual. His own words?: " I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest". You can check the link here (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000) for more detail on that.

2... and no, he never stated that he refuses to wear the flag. However, in the incident on camera, he stood throughout the entire anthem and didn't do it, even though the other 2 candidates on the platform with him had their hand on their hearts. You're telling me it was just an oversight? Even a 2nd grader knows its traditional to cover one's heart during the anthem, but a US senator doesn't know it? For most public officials, it's second nature! Or what do you think... that he forgot? Do you think he didn't see hundreds of people right in front of them who had their hand over their heart?

You can vote for the Obama-nable candidate if you want to, but I believe this man is dangerous to America.

DanielR
05-10-2008, 05:57 PM
2... and no, he never stated that he refuses to wear the flag. However, in the incident on camera, he stood throughout the entire anthem and didn't do it, even though the other 2 candidates on the platform with him had their hand on their hearts. You're telling me it was just an oversight? Even a 2nd grader knows its traditional to cover one's heart during the anthem, but a US senator doesn't know it? For most public officials, it's second nature! Or what do you think... that he forgot? Do you think he didn't see hundreds of people right in front of them who had their hand over their heart?

You can vote for the Obama-nable candidate if you want to, but I believe this man is dangerous to America.

I am not an Obama fan, but I get so tired of hearing about Obama standing at attention instead holding his hand over his heart...both are very acceptable practices and standing at attention is the method of choice for people that have been in the military.

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 06:28 PM
1... Yes, he explained "from his own moth" why he does not wear an American flag pin. His decision to stop wearing it, was in part, over the Iraq war. Whether or not one is satisfied with his explanation is up the individual. His own words?: " I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest". You can check the link here (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000) for more detail on that.

Did you even read my post? I already quoted what he said and posted it twice now. His reasoning was that he felt there were better ways than to express patriotism. Anyone can wear a flag and it does not make them an American. Nor does NOT wearing a flag make one NOT american


2... and no, he never stated that he refuses to wear the flag. However, in the incident on camera, he stood throughout the entire anthem and didn't do it, even though the other 2 candidates on the platform with him had their hand on their hearts. You're telling me it was just an oversight? Even a 2nd grader knows its traditional to cover one's heart during the anthem, but a US senator doesn't know it? For most public officials, it's second nature! Or what do you think... that he forgot? Do you think he didn't see hundreds of people right in front of them who had their hand over their heart?

I will tell you what...how many national anthems do you think he sat or stood through? (BTW he was standing)? You think none of them were on camera? Surely they can come up with more than that one instance. And as I said, if Obama was wanting to pull the wool over our eyes he would have FOR SURE put his hand over his heart and wear a flag just to fool us.


You can vote for the Obama-nable candidate if you want to, but I believe this man is dangerous to America.
You are clearly not a very objective person. If you were you would have actually read my posts and saw that I NEVER indicated he was not dangerous. I indicated he WAS but for far better reasons than this polemic. Anyone can make a video making ANYONE look bad.

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 06:28 PM
I am not an Obama fan, but I get so tired of hearing about Obama standing at attention instead holding his hand over his heart...both are very acceptable practices and standing at attention is the method of choice for people that have been in the military.

Subjective people don't want to hear that. They want to believe whatever they want to believe despite the lack of proof. They love these kinds of polemics

Praxeas
05-10-2008, 06:31 PM
Seriously, there are good factual and honest reason to NOT vote for this man.

He is a socialist. He is way too liberal compared to past Democratic presidents.

None of which are "his father was a muslim"...in fact his father was a secularist muslim...in other words he would even be an infidel to most Muslims. Obama was raised by his Christian grandparents.

I get tired of these kinds of polemics because they fire off in the wrong direction when the real reasons we should not vote for him are far more insidious than having a muslim background.

I'd rather have Hillery than Obama honestly. I see Hillery taking a lot of shots by Conservatives too....if they were really on the ball they would focus more on Obama just in case McCain loses


You can vote for the Obama-nable candidate if you want to, but I believe this man is dangerous to America.

Sigh........

brotherjason
05-10-2008, 06:37 PM
I kinda figured he was dangerous as soon as I heard his earlier schooling was in a madras. I don't care if I'm politically incorrect or seem like I'm not being fair but the guy has too many ties to the muslim faith and apparently the wacko "nation of Islam" friends too. Regardless of who says what, in general the old saying is true, "birds of a feather flock together". He spent 20 years in the church in Chicago, don't tell me he didn't agree with the hate the white man religion that was coming across the pulpit!

mfblume
05-10-2008, 06:40 PM
Forgive me, I'm Canadian and I am not aware of all the details of the men and women involved in the political arena.

Obama's name includes HUSSEIN?

Folks, this is going to be a joke in the eyes of the world if he gets in. LOL. Wow.

America, get with it!

The Obama/Osama thing is one thing. Hussein too?

JaneEyre
05-10-2008, 06:52 PM
Very scary video! I've always been against Obama, just because he has too many ties to Muslims, and would be sympathetic toward them if there was a conflict.

Exactly. Hillary would be a much better choice for the Democrats.

As unhappy as people are with the choice of the Republicans, I think we have no choice but to get behind John McCain and help him with his campaign.

JaneEyre
05-10-2008, 06:54 PM
Thanks Rhoni for posting...I see things shaping up...America does not know what is on her door steps...

The Bible tells us that in the Last Days, people will call evil good and good evil. It is happening now.

Barb
05-10-2008, 07:20 PM
I sent the link to one of my brothers in Illinois and he was not surprised. He said that Obama has done nothing for their state...

Sam
05-10-2008, 08:15 PM
Forgive me, I'm Canadian and I am not aware of all the details of the men and women involved in the political arena.

Obama's name includes HUSSEIN?

Folks, this is going to be a joke in the eyes of the world if he gets in. LOL. Wow.

America, get with it!

The Obama/Osama thing is one thing. Hussein too?

Yes, his name is Barack Hussein Obama.

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 08:17 PM
Did you even read my post? I already quoted what he said and posted it twice now. His reasoning was that he felt there were better ways than to express patriotism. Anyone can wear a flag and it does not make them an American. Nor does NOT wearing a flag make one NOT american

You are clearly not a very objective person. If you were you would have actually read my posts and saw that I NEVER indicated he was not dangerous. I indicated he WAS but for far better reasons than this polemic. Anyone can make a video making ANYONE look bad.

Our posts got crossed, and thats why I didn't see it while I was posting mine. Simple explanation. Anyway...

Something tells me your word of the day is "polemic". I've never seen the word used so repetitiously on a single thread....but anyway...

If you cant see through Obama's weak and transparent "reasoning" about the flag pin, then maybe there's a blind spot there, Prax. Its one thing for a man to say he'll choose other ways to express his patriotism than a flag pin. And no one is stupid enough to imply that not wearing a flag pin is un-American in and of itself. You're so totally missing the crux of the issue. The he issue here is, he used to wear one, then he decided to stop. Why did he stop? The man himself said, he thought the prevalence of flag pins during the lead-up to the Iraq war (often by conservatives/right wingers) displayed a sense of false patriotism. You yourself acknowledge that the man is a socialist (aka left winger). Obama being a leftist, has long played to the anti-war left, and he chose to distance himself from the American flag as a political statement. Many of those on the hard-left despised those who wore those flag pins ["flag-wavers", conservatives, "Bush-supporters", etc], and they themselves wouldn't be caught dead wearing one, so as not to be "on the same page" as those people. His decision to stop wearing a flag pin was a statement, as he chose to pander to the hard left.


And no... I'm not politically objective. I am subjective. I am a conservative and I am no fan of liberals or liberalism. However, objectivity is not necessarily required when it comes to politics. Truthfulness is. If you see anything there thats not factually true, then feel free to say that. But this man making a video of someone he opposes politically does not require "objectivity". As a matter of fact, subjectivity and personal bias are a natural part of the process. Many political ads/campaigns etc, are supposed to highlight the flaws of the other guy. That's just how it works.

I am not an Obama fan, but I get so tired of hearing about Obama standing at attention instead holding his hand over his heart...both are very acceptable practices and standing at attention is the method of choice for people that have been in the military.
Did you see the video, Daniel? I'm guessing you didn't....
The man was not "standing at attention" by any definition.

Sam
05-10-2008, 08:19 PM
I sent the link to one of my brothers in Illinois and he was not surprised. He said that Obama has done nothing for their state...

It is my understanding that Barack Hussein Obama won his Senate seat because his opponent dropped out of the race. Then, within days of taking office in the Senate, he began running for President.

If you want to see what kind of a person he is or how he stands, check out how he voted on each issue. That information should be available some where. From my understanding, he refused to take a stand on many issues, just voted "present" instead of "yes" or "no." It is also my understanding that when he has voted, he is one of, if not the one, most liberal person in the Senate.

Sam
05-10-2008, 08:21 PM
...
Did you see the video, Daniel? I'm guessing you didn't....
The man was not "standing at attention" by any definition.

It wasn't quite as bad as the Rosanne Barr action associated with the National Anthem a few years ago.

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 08:24 PM
It wasn't quite as bad as the Rosanne Barr action associated with the National Anthem a few years ago.
No, not by any means.
But some Obama-defenders have claimed that he was "standing at attention". It's strange that they would say that, because anyone who's seen the pics or video can see that he certainly was not .

pelathais
05-10-2008, 08:29 PM
I am voting 3rd party, and this simply confirms it.
Bill, by voting "third party" you may be helping to elect Obama. We need to rally together against this guy (and Hillary) and will take a broad coalition to defeat them.

That means voting with people we may not entirely agree with in order to prevent those who are completely off the charts from holding power.

Rhoni
05-10-2008, 08:40 PM
I wish we had a more conservative Republican running...*sigh**

TRFrance
05-10-2008, 08:43 PM
I wish we had a more conservative Republican running...*sigh**

Even the Republicans have become less and less of a conservative party over the years.

I look for that trend to only continue.

Rhoni
05-10-2008, 08:45 PM
The Bible talks about the old men dreaming dreams and the young men seeing visions in the last days...do we see this happening?

DanielR
05-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Did you see the video, Daniel? I'm guessing you didn't....
The man was not "standing at attention" by any definition.

No, I didn't bother to see "this" video. Over the past year I've seen so many photocrop jobs trying to prove him to be so evil that quite frankly, I tired of it. So there is no need for me to see this video because it isn't going to effect my vote anyway. I'm still voting for an underdog candidate because I vote for the right person even if nobody else does.

pelathais
05-10-2008, 09:12 PM
No, I didn't bother to see "this" video. Over the past year I've seen so many photocrop jobs trying to prove him to be so evil that quite frankly, I tired of it. So there is no need for me to see this video because it isn't going to effect my vote anyway. I'm still voting for an underdog candidate because I vote for the right person even if nobody else does.
It wasn't a "photocrop job" and Barak looked like he was rather slouched and uncomfortable. He appeared to be just "getting it over with" while Hillary came off looking prim and perky.

I'm concerned about having a guy in the White House who believes that HIV was "created by the U.S. government." Barak's "spiritual mentor" rails about that. Anybody that looney would be dangerous around the stuff that the U.S. government really has created!

Sam
05-10-2008, 11:05 PM
I wish we had a more conservative Republican running...*sigh**


Well, so do I and many others but we can certainly agree with John McCain much much more than with either Hillary or Hussein.

Sam
05-10-2008, 11:07 PM
The Bible talks about the old men dreaming dreams and the young men seeing visions in the last days...do we see this happening?

careful there, Sis, when you talk about old men

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 12:54 AM
The he issue here is, he used to wear one, then he decided to stop. Why did he stop? The man himself said, he thought the prevalence of flag pins during the lead-up to the Iraq war (often by conservatives/right wingers) displayed a sense of false patriotism.
WHO cares why he stopped. Do you wear a flag pin? I don't. As I said there are better VALID reasons to NOT vote for him

You yourself acknowledge that the man is a socialist (aka left winger). Obama being a leftist, has long played to the anti-war left, and he chose to distance himself from the American flag as a political statement.
He is a leftest because of jhis socialist agenda NOT because he does not wear a flag pin. As I said there are REAL reasons to not vote for him rather than trying to invent things let's just look at his record.

Many of those on the hard-left despised those who wore those flag pins ["flag-wavers", conservatives, "Bush-supporters", etc], and they themselves wouldn't be caught dead wearing one, so as not to be "on the same page" as those people. His decision to stop wearing a flag pin was a statement, as he chose to pander to the hard left.
There are not enough to the far left to get him voted into office. He would be better pandering to the left and centrist and the undecided independents. As I said...this topic is about being fooled by Obama. If I was a leftest and I wanted to fool you I would keep wearing the flag pin etc etc...the flag pin is a non-issue as was the National Anthem issue. There are far better issues and it would make for a much better argument to focus on them than to appeal to these non issues. They just make IMO these kinds of stories less credible to people that are objective and intelligent.

And no... I'm not politically objective. I am subjective. I am a conservative and I am no fan of liberals or liberalism.
I can decide to NOT be a liberal and be a conservative based on objective evidence rather than on my feelings or personal opinion. I am a conservative. I am also not a fan of liberals, but I don't see how that has anything to do with being conservative or subjective.

However, objectivity is not necessarily required when it comes to politics. Truthfulness is.

That is almost oxymoronic.
Objective
not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

Truth is factual and based on facts. It is NOT subjective or subject to the whims of personal feelings.

If you see anything there thats not factually true, then feel free to say that. But this man making a video of someone he opposes politically does not require "objectivity". As a matter of fact, subjectivity and personal bias are a natural part of the process. Many political ads/campaigns etc, are supposed to highlight the flaws of the other guy. That's just how it works
You can't deal in factual truth and NOT be objective but be subjective.

Personal bias based on feelings or inner opinions are NOT the same thing as a personal bias based on the facts. You want to be OBJECTIVE and decide Obama is not the right candidate based on FACTS. And there ARE facts as I said some REAL facts that are WORTH considering. Just because I say this is a polemic and that the issue of the pin and the anthem are non issues does NOT make me for Obama or a liberal.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 01:08 AM
2... and no, he never stated that he refuses to wear the flag. However, in the incident on camera, he stood throughout the entire anthem and didn't do it, even though the other 2 candidates on the platform with him had their hand on their hearts. You're telling me it was just an oversight? Even a 2nd grader knows its traditional to cover one's heart during the anthem, but a US senator doesn't know it?
A second grader knows it is a tradition to put your hand over your heart during the PLEDGE of allegiance...not during the singing of the national anthem. Some people might do it, but not all. Usually most people sing along and Obama was doing just that and standing.

At ball games they say "Ladies and gentlemen, please stand for the singing of the national anthem" and he did that.

Esther
05-11-2008, 09:55 AM
Not wearing a red flag is NOT an official snub of anything. How many of you Americans are wearing US flags right now on your shirts? Look, if he is a deceptive person why not just wear the flag to throw us all off? Why explain later

The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=Iraq%20war&sid=breitbart.com) that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.


"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."


On Thursday, his campaign issued a statement: "We all revere the flag, but Senator Obama believes that being a patriot is about more than a symbol. It's about fighting for our veterans when they get home and speaking honestly with the American people about this disastrous war. (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=disastrous%20war&sid=breitbart.com)"???

Sorry I don't buy into this propraganda. Any true patriot will where a flag.

Rico
05-11-2008, 10:01 AM
Sorry I don't buy into this propraganda. Any true patriot will where a flag.

I don't wear a flag. Nor do I own one. Does that mean I am not patriotic?

Esther
05-11-2008, 10:04 AM
I don't wear a flag. Nor do I own one. Does that mean I am not patriotic?

Does it?

I don't wear one everywhere I go either. But the difference is I am willing too, are you? Obama is not.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 02:03 PM
Sorry I don't buy into this propraganda. Any true patriot will where a flag.
Is that a joke? So I am not a true patriot because sitting here in my sweats I don't have a flag pin stuck to me? Seriously? A true Patriot WILL wear a flag on their clothes at all times? Are you wearing one now?

Rico
05-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Does it?

I don't wear one everywhere I go either. But the difference is I am willing too, are you? Obama is not.

I don't wear any kind of jewelry, including pins, so that means I am not willing to wear a flag pin either. I also think it's dumb to put my hand over my heart when the national anthem is being sung.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Does it?

I don't wear one everywhere I go either. But the difference is I am willing too, are you? Obama is not.
Who made up that rule? I am not willing to wear a flag pin to prove to a bunch of elites that I am as patriotic as they are. That is absurd.

In fact I would say wearing a flag does not prove 1 ounce of patriotism. Anyone can wear a flag. That's like saying holiness standards proves someone is Holy when we all know inside they can be messed up.

I don't judge whether someone is a patriot or not because of a flag pin. What marketing genius came up with that? Whoever it was is making bucks selling flag pins.

It reminds me of the Christians that have to wear a cross just so you know they are true Christians....there are a lot of crips and bloods in LA that wear them too...despite selling drugs, robbing people and killing people.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't wear any kind of jewelry, including pins, so that means I am not willing to wear a flag pin either. I also think it's dumb to put my hand over my heart when the national anthem is being sung.
It's not a requirement and most people that I see at games and such don't do it. It's when reciting the pledge of allegiance that it everyone usually does it...except JWs

JaneEyre
05-11-2008, 02:14 PM
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. -- United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sec_36_00000301----000-.html

TITLE 36 > Subtitle I > Part A > CHAPTER 3 > § 301
Prev | Next
§ 301. National anthem
How Current is This?
(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Esther
05-11-2008, 02:43 PM
Is that a joke? So I am not a true patriot because sitting here in my sweats I don't have a flag pin stuck to me? Seriously? A true Patriot WILL wear a flag on their clothes at all times? Are you wearing one now?

NO, you miss my point. No, I am not wearing one. The difference is I am not ashamed to wear one.

It is not a matter of do I have one, or IF I had one would I be willing to wear it. But a man that is running for the highest office of our land saying he will NOT wear one, gives me great cause for concern. However, they are much more evidence of things I am more or just as concerned about.

To ME he is saying he doesn't believe not support our nation!

Esther
05-11-2008, 02:46 PM
Who made up that rule? I am not willing to wear a flag pin to prove to a bunch of elites that I am as patriotic as they are. That is absurd.

In fact I would say wearing a flag does not prove 1 ounce of patriotism. Anyone can wear a flag. That's like saying holiness standards proves someone is Holy when we all know inside they can be messed up.

I don't judge whether someone is a patriot or not because of a flag pin. What marketing genius came up with that? Whoever it was is making bucks selling flag pins.

It reminds me of the Christians that have to wear a cross just so you know they are true Christians....there are a lot of crips and bloods in LA that wear them too...despite selling drugs, robbing people and killing people.

Prax I think you are missing our concerns here. Don't judge him by your own actions. You may have a valid reason to not want to wear the flag, but hopefully you don't want to burn the flag. And MY opinion of Obama, I'm not sure he wouldn't be just as happy to burn our flag.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 02:46 PM
NO, you miss my point. No, I am not wearing one. The difference is I am not ashamed to wear one.

It is not a matter of do I have one, or IF I had one would I be willing to wear it. But a man that is running for the highest office of our land saying he will NOT wear one, gives me great cause for concern. However, they are much more evidence of things I am more or just as concerned about.

To ME he is saying he doesn't believe not support our nation!
We went from "not wearing a flag pin" to "refuses to wear one" to "being ashamed to wear one"...don't you guys see yet how this works?

There are FAR BETTER reason to NOT vote for a man other than he refuses to wear a flag pin. That is rather petty IMO

Esther
05-11-2008, 02:47 PM
We went from "not wearing a flag pin" to "refuses to wear one" to "being ashamed to wear one"...don't you guys see yet how this works?

There are FAR BETTER reason to NOT vote for a man other than he refuses to wear a flag pin. That is rather petty IMO

I don't think it is petty at all. But I do agree with you on there are definitely other issues that are just as sobering.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 02:48 PM
Prax I think you are missing our concerns here. Don't judge him by your own actions. You may have a valid reason to not want to wear the flag, but hopefully you don't want to burn the flag. And MY opinion of Obama, I'm not sure he wouldn't be just as happy to burn our flag.
That is a great example of subjectiveness,

There are PLENTY OF OBJECTIVE reasons to NOT vote for the man than our subjective feelings that he would want to burn our own flag.

Esther
05-11-2008, 02:50 PM
That is a great example of subjectiveness,

There are PLENTY OF OBJECTIVE reasons to NOT vote for the man than our subjective feelings that he would want to burn our own flag.

I agree, but to ME that is high on my list of someone wanting to hold the highest office of our land yet refusing to salute the flag or even wear it???

NOT for ME!!!

I don't trust the man, period!

TRFrance
05-11-2008, 03:26 PM
That is almost oxymoronic.
Objective
not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

Truth is factual and based on facts. It is NOT subjective or subject to the whims of personal feelings.

You can't deal in factual truth and NOT be objective but be subjective.



Really?
Prax, before you give me a lecture on what the word subjectivity means [especially as contrasted with objectivity], you might want to become aware of what it actually means.

You state that objective mean "based on the facts"... as if to imply that subjective means "not based on the facts. That is fallacious logic to say the least. Yes, objectivity means based solely on facts. But subjectivity does not necessarily mean the facts are not taken into account. Subjectivity can involve a person's personal interpretation of the facts, or personal observation of those facts. An example of this would be a boxing judge who scores the match based on his personal observation, even though the judge sitting beside him might look at the same facts in front of them, but judge it differently. On the contrary, a sport like track athletics would be administered objectively, since the runners win, lose, or place based on their time, a simple empirical measurement, rather than on the judgement (subjectivity) of individual judges. Thus, boxing, (like figure skating, synchronized swimming, and quite a few others) is a sport that can not be judged 100% "objectively" because it is always subject to personal interpretation of the judges.

Its the same with the 'game' of politics . We all have personal biases, which play into our interpretation of what we see. Total objectivity is desirable, but not always possible. Subjectivity is a natural part (and a big part), of the process.

Thus, your statement that "a person can not deal with factual truth and NOT be objective, but be subjective" totally flies in the face of the facts.
You want to be OBJECTIVE and decide Obama is not the right candidate based on FACTS. And there ARE facts as I said some REAL facts that are WORTH considering.
Same point as above. A computer can mechanically analyzing facts and figures, and that's all that's needed. But any individual making decisions regarding political candidates, personal interpretation will invariably come into play; thus.. subjectivity.

Just because I say this is a polemic and that the issue of the pin and the anthem are non issues does NOT make me for Obama or a liberal.
Ok... so you think the flag pin thing is a non-issue. Other people might think its an issue, which speaks regarding his judgment. If some people want to consider it an issue, why not let them decide for themselves if its a "non-issue" or not?

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 05:10 PM
Really?
Subjectivity can involve a person's personal interpretation of the facts, or personal observation of those facts. An example of this would be a boxing judge who scores the match based on his personal observation, even though the judge sitting beside him might look at the same facts in front of them, but judge it differently. On the contrary, a sport like track athletics would be administered objectively, since the runners win, lose, or place based on their time, a simple empirical measurement, rather than on the judgement (subjectivity) of individual judges. Thus, boxing, (like figure skating, synchronized swimming, and quite a few others) is a sport that can not be judged 100% "objectively" because it is always subject to personal interpretation of the judges.

Its the same with the 'game' of politics . We all have personal biases, which play into our interpretation of what we see. Total objectivity is desirable, but not always possible. Subjectivity is a natural part (and a big part), of the process.

Thus, your statement that "a person can not deal with factual truth and NOT be objective, but be subjective" totally flies in the face of the facts.

Same point as above. A computer can mechanically analyzing facts and figures, and that's all that's needed. But any individual making decisions regarding political candidates, personal interpretation will invariably come into play; thus.. subjectivity.


Ok... so you think the flag pin thing is a non-issue. Other people might think its an issue, which speaks regarding his judgment. If some people want to consider it an issue, why not let them decide for themselves if its a "non-issue" or not?

Here is a good example of Objectivity and Subjectivity
In philosophy, an objective fact means a truth that remains true everywhere, independently of human thought or feelings. For instance, it is true always and everywhere that '2 and 2 make 4'. A subjective fact is a truth that is only true in certain times, places or people. For instance, 'That painting is good' may be true for someone who likes it, but it is not necessarily true that it is a good painting pure and simple, and remains so always no matter what people think of it. If the painting could claim this, someone who thought the painting was bad would be completely wrong, in the same way someone who says the sun goes around the earth is wrong. So the reliability of mathematics is an objective truth, whereas the beauty of paintings is probably a subjective one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(philosophy)

Subjectivity
Subjectivity refers to a subject's perspective, particularly feelings, beliefs, and desires. It is often used casually to refer to unjustified personal opinions, in contrast to knowledge and justified belief. In philosophy, the term is often contrasted with objectivity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28philosophy%29)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjectivity

And on the flag thing...why not let them decide for themselves? IS this not a discussion? I can have an opinion too just like you. Why not let me have mine then?

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 05:11 PM
I agree, but to ME that is high on my list of someone wanting to hold the highest office of our land yet refusing to salute the flag or even wear it???

NOT for ME!!!

I don't trust the man, period!
I don't trust him either, but for better reasons than he won't make a fashion statement about patriotism

Sam
05-11-2008, 06:13 PM
...
It reminds me of the Christians that have to wear a cross just so you know they are true Christians....there are a lot of crips and bloods in LA that wear them too...despite selling drugs, robbing people and killing people.

Jesus told us how His true followers are identified in John 13:35.

Sam
05-11-2008, 06:17 PM
Well, let's hope he learns how many states there are some time before he becomes President.

check out
http://www.mightyrighty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199717&postcount=3

Sam
05-11-2008, 06:19 PM
speaking of propaganda, have y'all seen this?

Sam
05-11-2008, 06:21 PM
or have y'all seen this?

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 06:22 PM
Well, let's hope he learns how many states there are some time before he becomes President.

check out
http://www.mightyrighty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199717&postcount=3

lol....

rgcraig
05-11-2008, 06:27 PM
Well, let's hope he learns how many states there are some time before he becomes President.

check out
http://www.mightyrighty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199717&postcount=3

Now that's just down right pitiful!

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 06:42 PM
Now that's just down right pitiful!
it is...it sounds like something Dubya would do lol...

Rhoni
05-11-2008, 08:12 PM
I think that we all need to pray. Things are getting set up for destiny to be fulfilled. Let us pray therefore the Lord of the Harvest that He would send forth laborers into the harvest.

In Jesus name.

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 08:15 PM
I think that we all need to pray. Things are getting set up for destiny to be fulfilled. Let us pray therefore the Lord of the Harvest that He would send forth laborers into the harvest.

In Jesus name.
Maybe the problem is we should have BEEN praying.

Rhoni
05-11-2008, 08:18 PM
Maybe the problem is we should have BEEN praying.

Many of us are and have been praying for a long time. I always pray that God would help others to be prayer warriors. We need more of them. We are not fighting against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers...AND spiritual wickedness in high places!

Praxeas
05-11-2008, 08:20 PM
Many of us are and have been praying for a long time. I always pray that God would help others to be prayer warriors. We need more of them. We are not fighting against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers...AND spiritual wickedness in high places!
Well you said "I think we need to pray" which implies we are not all praying. So I state matter of factly maybe the problem is we should have already BEEN praying. It's part of our nature and unfortunately now a part of the American psyche to do nothing until it is too late or almost too late

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 08:05 AM
well i will pray, as i have been and vote for someone else besides obama, i never thought he should be president, no matter what chris hall said, lol,dt

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 08:47 AM
well i will pray, as i have been and vote for someone else besides obama, i never thought he should be president, no matter what chris hall said, lol,dt


Thank-you...prayer is what we all need to be doing for this election. Too many things weighing in the balance!

Blessings, Rhoni

Rico
05-12-2008, 08:56 AM
If Obama was so evil, as some of you imply, then you should vote for him to hasten the coming of the Lord. What better thing to have the Lord say to you than, "Well done, my child. Your voting for BO guaranteed that he was elected and opened the door for me to return, as I promised so long ago." Y'all have your priorities mixed up. You want the Lord to come back, but you do everything in your power to make sure He doesn't!

Esther
05-12-2008, 09:12 AM
If Obama was so evil, as some of you imply, then you should vote for him to hasten the coming of the Lord. What better thing to have the Lord say to you than, "Well done, my child. Your voting for BO guaranteed that he was elected and opened the door for me to return, as I promised so long ago." Y'all have your priorities mixed up. You want the Lord to come back, but you do everything in your power to make sure He doesn't!

Good grief!

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 09:13 AM
If Obama was so evil, as some of you imply, then you should vote for him to hasten the coming of the Lord. What better thing to have the Lord say to you than, "Well done, my child. Your voting for BO guaranteed that he was elected and opened the door for me to return, as I promised so long ago." Y'all have your priorities mixed up. You want the Lord to come back, but you do everything in your power to make sure He doesn't!

rico my man you are pretty silly sometimes, lol,dt:bliss

Esther
05-12-2008, 09:14 AM
Well you said "I think we need to pray" which implies we are not all praying. So I state matter of factly maybe the problem is we should have already BEEN praying. It's part of our nature and unfortunately now a part of the American psyche to do nothing until it is too late or almost too late

Saying we need to do something does not in any way imply you haven't been doing what needs to be done. It is simply stating what needs to be done.

There gotcha! :bliss

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 09:21 AM
Saying we need to do something does not in any way imply you haven't been doing what needs to be done. It is simply stating what needs to be done.

There gotcha! :bliss

Thank-you Esther,

Some people get so defensive and I might not have stated it correctly. Thank-you for clarifying.

Blessigns, Rhoni

Esther
05-12-2008, 09:25 AM
Thank-you Esther,

Some people get so defensive and I might not have stated it correctly. Thank-you for clarifying.

Blessigns, Rhoni

Your welcome.

It is hard to ever catch Praxeas in a mistake. Although what he said could be "implied" as well, [but let's not tell him that] but so could your side. :)

Rico
05-12-2008, 09:29 AM
Vote For Obama!

and Help The Lord Return

StillStanding
05-12-2008, 09:39 AM
The folks who put out these videos have an agenda. Quotes and video are taken out of context and spun to create an illusion of truth. I don't come to conclusions by watching these videos. They are interesting to watch, though! :)

Rico
05-12-2008, 09:52 AM
The folks who put out these videos have an agenda. Quotes and video are taken out of context and spun to create an illusion of truth. I don't come to conclusions by watching these videos. They are interesting to watch, though! :)

Yes, it is interesting to see the spin put on comments that are captured on video. As soon as I saw the video started with his name, I pretty much knew it was going to be more of the same stuff we've already seen.

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 10:07 AM
video, schmideo, i would not vote for someone who wants abortion or to raise taxes, they are the back breakers for me, do what you guys want, but as for me and my house, we be doin it, lol,dt:bliss

TRFrance
05-12-2008, 10:36 AM
If Obama was so evil, as some of you imply, then you should vote for him to hasten the coming of the Lord. What better thing to have the Lord say to you than, "Well done, my child. Your voting for BO guaranteed that he was elected and opened the door for me to return, as I promised so long ago." Y'all have your priorities mixed up. You want the Lord to come back, but you do everything in your power to make sure He doesn't!
Vote For Obama!

and Help The Lord Return


That's an interesting twist.
Or, one might say... OBAMA = END TIME REVIVAL!!!

Light
05-12-2008, 10:43 AM
The most important attribute that an apostolic has is their word. If our word is tarnished then any thing we say about the apostolic truth is unbelievable.

Apostolic go on line and post things (lies sometimes) that someone else has said or posted without verifying the truth of the matter. Truth must not matter if one is to lazy to verifier the facts . To post something you have not verified as being truthful is a lie. Apostolic are not suppose to lie.

It does not matter if you are for or against a candidate to post something that is a lie makes you a liar.
Shame on those that are retelling these lies

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 10:48 AM
listen friend, i dotn need a video to tell me that bo, is not a good candidate and does not deserve my vote, as a matter of fact, i did not watch the video clip, it is old news, dt:blah

Esther
05-12-2008, 10:50 AM
The most important attribute that an apostolic has is their word. If our word is tarnished then any thing we say about the apostolic truth is unbelievable.

Apostolic go on line and post things (lies sometimes) that someone else has said or posted without verifying the truth of the matter. Truth must not matter if one is to lazy to verifier the facts . To post something you have not verified as being truthful is a lie. Apostolic are not suppose to lie.

It does not matter if you are for or against a candidate to post something that is a lie makes you a liar.
Shame on those that are retelling these lies

A bit of a stretch here I think.

ChristopherHall
05-12-2008, 10:50 AM
I hear you, Prax.
the Muslim thing is a non-issue with me personally, but that was a small part of the video. Did you watch the whole thing? its 13 minutes long.

Apart from the muslim thing, the video raised a lot of valid points.. such as... Jeremiah Wright, che Guevara's flag, his refusing to wear an American flag, not holding his hand over his heart while the national anthem was being sung... etc.. (Even if he feels he has legitimate reasons for it, the national anthem thing, and the flag pin thing show an astounding lack of judgment, since he must know full well that many Americans would find his behavior on this to be offensive)


These are legitimate issues that deserve consideration. Not to mention his association with former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, legitimate questions about his true feelings regarding Israel (http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-are-obamas-real-views-regarding.html), and other issues I'll not get into right now. The fact is, this guy has more baggage than a 747. Its just a question of how of this is going to become widely known, and how much the media will sweep under the rug.

Check this out:

FactCheck:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

Summary
If these two nasty e-mail messages are any indication, the 2008 presidential campaign is becoming a very dirty one.

One claims that Obama is "certainly a racist" by virtue of belonging to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, which it says "will accept only black parishoners" and espouses a commitment to Africa. Actually, a white theology professor says he's been "welcomed enthusiastically" at the church, as have other non-blacks.

Another e-mail claims that Obama "is a Muslim," attended a "Wahabi" school in Indonesia, took his Senate oath on the Koran, refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and is part of an Islamic plot to take over the U.S. Each of these statements is false.

These false appeals to bigotry and fear remind us of the infamous whispering campaign of eight years ago, when anonymous messages just before the South Carolina primary falsely accused Republican candidate John McCain of fathering an illegitimate child by a black woman.

Also review:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_say_the_national_anthem_conveys.html

The more I hear against Obama the more outrageous it all becomes.

Rico
05-12-2008, 10:53 AM
That's an interesting twist.
Or, one might say... OBAMA = END TIME REVIVAL!!!

That's the spirit! All together now!!!! OBAMA=END TIME REVIVAL!!!!

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 10:54 AM
none of us need a pack of falsehoods to tell us that voting for obama is a mistake, none of us, dt

Light
05-12-2008, 10:55 AM
A bit of a stretch here I think.

Wow checking your facts to make sure you tell the truth so as not to lie a stretch. A lie is a lie if said with the mouth or with a post. If you repeat a lie you are a liar period.

ChristopherHall
05-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Here's what I find funny...Hillary doesn't stand a chance because the GOP has demonized her and her husband for nearly 16 years. Now America rejects her...for the more liberal candidate! ROFL

If Obama becomes President...thank the likes of Rush Limbaugh! :lol

Sean Hannity had the "Stop Hillary Express" going long before the primaries began. When he saw her loosing and Obama gaining he slammed on the breaks..."Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk!" Um....no....now it's the "Stop Obama Express". :toofunny

If I were Obama...I'd send Cox Radio a thank you letter. :bliss

TRFrance
05-12-2008, 11:13 AM
A bit of a stretch here I think.
I would agree.

Wow checking your facts to make sure you tell the truth so as not to lie a stretch. A lie is a lie if said with the mouth or with a post. If you repeat a lie you are a liar period.
Whoa! Slow down there, cowboy/cowgirl.

If a person has reason to believe the information is inaccurate,then they do have an obligation to try to verify the info. But if they pass on some information that they honestly and reasonably believe to be true, then they have not LIED. They may have been careless, or in error... but to call them a LIAR is a bit over-the-top.

Calm it down a bit, please.

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 11:27 AM
The most important attribute that an apostolic has is their word. If our word is tarnished then any thing we say about the apostolic truth is unbelievable.

Apostolic go on line and post things (lies sometimes) that someone else has said or posted without verifying the truth of the matter. Truth must not matter if one is to lazy to verifier the facts . To post something you have not verified as being truthful is a lie. Apostolic are not suppose to lie.

It does not matter if you are for or against a candidate to post something that is a lie makes you a liar.
Shame on those that are retelling these lies

I understand your black and white mentality but there are a lot of gray areas in life. Total truth is only contained within the word of God and the problem with that is that men try to interpret it to fit their agenda.:crazywalls

Blessings, Rhoni

ChristopherHall
05-12-2008, 11:31 AM
I don't think that if someone sincerely forwards false information that they're liars...however, it does prove how gullible and uninformed regarding the issues they truly are.

Esther
05-12-2008, 11:31 AM
Wow checking your facts to make sure you tell the truth so as not to lie a stretch. A lie is a lie if said with the mouth or with a post. If you repeat a lie you are a liar period.


Unless you KNOW something is a lie and you repeat it is not lying in my opinion.

Most folks don't have time or the resources to verify everything they hear.

Although silence is golden is it not?

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 11:33 AM
Unless you KNOW something is a lie and you repeat it is not lying in my opinion.

Most folks don't have time or the resources to verify everything they hear.

Although silence is golden is it not?

silence is golden for sure, it is, lol, dt:blah

Light
05-12-2008, 11:35 AM
I would agree.


Whoa! Slow down there, cowboy/cowgirl.

If a person has reason to believe the information is inaccurate,then they do have an obligation to try to verify the info. But if they pass on some information that they honestly and reasonably believe to be true, then they have not LIED. They may have been careless, or in error... but to call them a LIAR is a bit over-the-top.

Calm it down a bit, please.
A lie is a lie, is a lie no matter how you cut it. It seems people in the church are like the politicians and news commentators, truth doesn't matter. On Fox news this morning a republican talking head said Obama refuses to salute the flag as a clip was playing with him saluting the flag. The clip didn't faze her at all.
There has been enough time for people on this site who post this trash to find the facts. They continue even after it is proven the statement is a lie.
Apostolic if you don't like the guy that's OK just tell the truth. Don't vote for him.

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 11:36 AM
silence is golden for sure, it is, lol, dt:blah


:toofunnyIsn't it ironic that people who disagree with a thing try to distract from the subject to keep people off-guard and focus off the real issues?:gaga

TRFrance
05-12-2008, 11:40 AM
A lie is a lie, is a lie no matter how you cut it. It seems people in the church are like the politicians and news commentators, truth doesn't matter. On Fox news this morning a republican talking head said Obama refuses to salute the flag as a clip was playing with him saluting the flag. The clip didn't faze her at all.
There has been enough time for people on this site who post this trash to find the facts. They continue even after it is proven the statement is a lie.
Apostolic if you don't like the guy that's OK just tell the truth. Don't vote for him.

Good grief.
If someone passes along an "Obama is a Muslim" email, believing that it's true, that doesn't make them a liar.

I think you really need to get some balance and perspective in how you view things.

Anyway...lets just agree to disagree on this, and move on.

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 11:41 AM
:toofunnyIsn't it ironic that people who disagree with a thing try to distract from the subject to keep people off-guard and focus off the real issues?:gaga

yes it is, it does not take to long to figure who they are and what they are about, dont let them bother you, they claimed that gwb lied too, but he just believed what the rest of them did, and even said, but no it was just him of course cause it fits there little schtick to say that, dt

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 12:00 PM
yes it is, it does not take to long to figure who they are and what they are about, dont let them bother you, they claimed that gwb lied too, but he just believed what the rest of them did, and even said, but no it was just him of course cause it fits there little schtick to say that, dt

DT,
It stopped bothering me years ago...I was just pointing out the obvious:gaga
Blessings, Rhoni

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 12:06 PM
DT,
It stopped bothering me years ago...I was just pointing out the obvious:gaga
Blessings, Rhoni

go girl, dt:happydance

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 12:11 PM
go girl, dt:happydance

:highfive

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 12:25 PM
:happydance:bliss:highfive

:bliss:bliss:yourock:thumbsup

Praxeas
05-12-2008, 12:30 PM
Thank-you Esther,

Some people get so defensive and I might not have stated it correctly. Thank-you for clarifying.

Blessigns, Rhoni
How is clarifying what you said being defensive?

I simply pointed out we should have already BEEN praying and that makes me defensive rather than clarifying it was something we should have been doing?

The truth is we were NOT all doing it and my point remains valid....sounds more like you are the one being defensive over your original statement lol

Praxeas
05-12-2008, 12:32 PM
Your welcome.

It is hard to ever catch Praxeas in a mistake. Although what he said could be "implied" as well, [but let's not tell him that] but so could your side. :)
I implied WE...meaning those that already were and those that were NOT already praying for Obama and others and for this nation, should have already been praying. Thank you Praxeas for clarifying your statement for those that are already or have already been defensive. Why you are welcome my dear friends. Go thou and do likewise.

Rico
05-12-2008, 12:32 PM
A Vote For McCain

Will Bring You Shame!!!

VOTE FOR OBAMA!!

And Hasten The Return Of The Lord!

Praxeas
05-12-2008, 12:35 PM
I understand your black and white mentality but there are a lot of gray areas in life. Total truth is only contained within the word of God and the problem with that is that men try to interpret it to fit their agenda.:crazywalls

Blessings, Rhoni
Esther, can you please clarify this statement. I fear Rhoni may have just said there are no "total" truths outside of the bible....perhaps she needs to explain what she means by "total" but a truth is anything that is not untrue. It can be a factual and actual TRUTH that Obama hates the American flag or it can be a lie...an untruth. And I have to agree that it would be sad for people who are Christians to not only believe willingly a lie about anyone but to propagate that same lie

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 12:35 PM
you are so lost rico, lol,dt:blah

Praxeas
05-12-2008, 12:37 PM
Unless you KNOW something is a lie and you repeat it is not lying in my opinion.

Most folks don't have time or the resources to verify everything they hear.

Although silence is golden is it not?
That may be true, yes. However if someone told me a lie about you and it was damaging and I believed it about you and went around and told it to others....how about that make me without first checking the facts and seeing if it was true? In which case I probably should not tell anyone anyways even if it was true but it is the same principle.

Praxeas
05-12-2008, 12:38 PM
Good grief.
If someone passes along an "Obama is a Muslim" email, believing that it's true, that doesn't make them a liar.

I think you really need to get some balance and perspective in how you view things.

Anyway...lets just agree to disagree on this, and move on.
It might make them irresponsible to not check it out first....

Rico
05-12-2008, 12:39 PM
you are so lost rico, lol,dt:blah

Ahhhh shuddup already! Yer in the way of God's will!! MOVE IT! MOVE IT!!


















:D

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 12:40 PM
Ahhhh shuddup already! Yer in the way of God's will!! MOVE IT! MOVE IT!!


well time will tell, you are funny buddy, dt:blah:blah:blah















:D

funny

ChristopherHall
05-12-2008, 01:24 PM
We've all been guilty of sharing something incorrect. What's important is turning around and admitting that we were wrong and correcting the record.

So sharing information that's incorrect is clearly a demonstration of gullibility and being uninformed. Let's be merciful to one another.

DividedThigh
05-12-2008, 01:29 PM
who is we all pilgrim , you dont speak for me, and i dont participate in the sharing of that stuff, lol,dt

Rico
05-12-2008, 01:49 PM
We've all been guilty of sharing something incorrect. What's important is turning around and admitting that we were wrong and correcting the record.

So sharing information that's incorrect is clearly a demonstration of gullibility and being uninformed. Let's be merciful to one another.

Beating each other half to death is soooooooooo much more fun though!!!! :boxing

Rhoni
05-12-2008, 02:44 PM
Esther, can you please clarify this statement. I fear Rhoni may have just said there are no "total" truths outside of the bible....perhaps she needs to explain what she means by "total" but a truth is anything that is not untrue. It can be a factual and actual TRUTH that Obama hates the American flag or it can be a lie...an untruth. And I have to agree that it would be sad for people who are Christians to not only believe willingly a lie about anyone but to propagate that same lie


:reactionGet over it Prax.

Blessings, Rhoni

Rico
05-12-2008, 03:58 PM
Here ya go all you naysayers!!! Take that! VOTE FOR OBAMA and hasten the return of the Lord!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080512/ap_on_el_pr/democrats;_ylt=Ar7UHhmXxBwCJM_Dlihv75ms0NUE

TRFrance
05-12-2008, 04:16 PM
Here ya go all you naysayers!!! Take that! VOTE FOR OBAMA and hasten the return of the Lord!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080512/ap_on_el_pr/democrats;_ylt=Ar7UHhmXxBwCJM_Dlihv75ms0NUE
I've never seen the movie The Manchurian Candidate, but all the Obama/Manchurian Candidate references I keep hearing make me want to check the movie out.

Besides, I keep hearing its a great movie anyway.

Sam
05-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Now that the Rev. J. Wright is retired and moving to a gated community, Barack Hussein Obama has a new pastor. You can read about him at:
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_Reverend_Otis_Moss/2008/05/08/94416.html

Praxeas
05-12-2008, 07:48 PM
:reactionGet over it Prax.

Blessings, Rhoni
stop beating a dead horse Rhoni :drama

Rico
05-12-2008, 07:48 PM
I've never seen the movie The Manchurian Candidate, but all the Obama/Manchurian Candidate references I keep hearing make me want to check the movie out.

Besides, I keep hearing its a great movie anyway.

It's a good movie, but it's fantasy.

TRFrance
05-12-2008, 08:03 PM
I've never seen the movie The Manchurian Candidate, but all the Obama/Manchurian Candidate references I keep hearing make me want to check the movie out.

Besides, I keep hearing its a great movie anyway.

It's a good movie, but it's fantasy.

Well...so is Obama's campaign.

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 05:39 AM
Fox and Friends were talking this morning saying the only reason Hillary has gotten this far is the cross-over voting of the republicans. This is ridiculous. The media has driven Barak Obama to where he is and if is on the coattails of personality and not substance.

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 05:40 AM
stop beating a dead horse Rhoni :drama

Sore loser:crazywalls

ChristopherHall
05-13-2008, 05:45 AM
Fox and Friends were talking this morning saying the only reason Hillary has gotten this far is the cross-over voting of the republicans. This is ridiculous. The media has driven Barak Obama to where he is and if is on the coattails of personality and not substance.

Rhoni...as you know I have a VERY Democratic family. Most Democrats I know don't like Hillary. The media is only reporting the news. Most Democrats feel Hillary is too polarizing. Most Republicans have been programmed to hate her guts by the talk radio circuit. The field was wide open for Obama. And after Bush's near illiteracy, a man who can speak and has charisma is really appealing. Of course those aren't reasons to elect him...but it does explain some of his popularity.

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 12:23 PM
Rhoni...as you know I have a VERY Democratic family. Most Democrats I know don't like Hillary. The media is only reporting the news. Most Democrats feel Hillary is too polarizing. Most Republicans have been programmed to hate her guts by the talk radio circuit. The field was wide open for Obama. And after Bush's near illiteracy, a man who can speak and has charisma is really appealing. Of course those aren't reasons to elect him...but it does explain some of his popularity.

I think that the dislike of Hillary is the fact she is a woman. She is knowledgeable and has enough history in the White House and in politics to be an asset as President, but as we all know...strong, capable, and well educated women are seen as threatening, and agressive to men. They'd rather have a man with no plan, no credible political history, and with little to no Christian values than allow a woman to rule over men:)

Blessings, Rhoni

Rico
05-13-2008, 12:54 PM
I think that the dislike of Hillary is the fact she is a woman.



HOGWASH!!

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 01:18 PM
Sore loser:crazywalls
Still beating that dead horse I see Rhoni. I thought it was over. Did you lose sleep over it last night? Replay some "choice" words you'd give me an earful of if only the rules did not forbid it? :boxing

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 01:20 PM
Rhoni...as you know I have a VERY Democratic family. Most Democrats I know don't like Hillary. The media is only reporting the news. Most Democrats feel Hillary is too polarizing. Most Republicans have been programmed to hate her guts by the talk radio circuit. The field was wide open for Obama. And after Bush's near illiteracy, a man who can speak and has charisma is really appealing. Of course those aren't reasons to elect him...but it does explain some of his popularity.
Well. I am not a Replumbercan but ifin I was I'd choose Hillery over Obama if I had the choice. Hillery is closer to center. In fact since Obama is so far right I don't see HOW he can not be polarfishing...or polarizing

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 01:21 PM
I think that the dislike of Hillary is the fact she is a woman. She is knowledgeable and has enough history in the White House and in politics to be an asset as President, but as we all know...strong, capable, and well educated women are seen as threatening, and agressive to men. They'd rather have a man with no plan, no credible political history, and with little to no Christian values than allow a woman to rule over men:)

Blessings, Rhoni
I'd prefer a strong educated woman...Im so tired of the weak stupid ones that seem to be the majority.

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 01:23 PM
I'd prefer a strong educated woman...Im so tired of the weak stupid ones that seem to be the majority.

Yes, that is what they all say until they are faced with one.:toofunny

I never lose sleep over AFF...I am so over the drama. I prefer PEACE.

Blessings, Rhoni

TRFrance
05-13-2008, 01:24 PM
Most Democrats feel Hillary is too polarizing. Most Republicans have been programmed to hate her guts by the talk radio circuit. The field was wide open for Obama. And after Bush's near illiteracy, a man who can speak and has charisma is really appealing. Of course those aren't reasons to elect him...but it does explain some of his popularity.
huh??!

GW Bush has a BA from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard and he's "near illiterate"? What utter nonsense. OK...he's not a great public speaker, but to call him near-illiterate is just dumb.

CH, you try to portray yourself as being a liberal who is fair-minded... but making ignorant remarks like this don't help your case at all. Saying stuff like this makes you sound like the those idiotic loonies on the left who've made Bush-bashing into a sport these last 8 years.

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 01:29 PM
Yes, that is what they all say until they are faced with one.:toofunny

I never lose sleep over AFF...I am so over the drama. I prefer PEACE.

Blessings, Rhoni
I've only known one...no wait two....neither were members of this forum. Neither one threatened me. In fact they enjoyed having an intelligent man to talk to.

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 01:30 PM
huh??!

GW Bush has a BA from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard and he's "near illiterate"? What utter nonsense. OK...he's not a great public speaker, but to call him near-illiterate is just dumb.

CH, you try to portray yourself as being a liberal who is fair-minded... but making ignorant remarks like this don't help your case at all. Saying stuff like this makes you sound like the those idiotic loonies on the left who've made Bush-bashing into a sport these last 8 years.
I think near illiterate is a buzz word for getting tongue tied maybe?

DividedThigh
05-13-2008, 01:33 PM
i dont have a prob with smart women, i prefer them, but hilary aint one of them, and it is a joke to think that is why people oppose her, i dont like her ideas at all, that is why i dont like her, dt

Esther
05-13-2008, 01:34 PM
I think near illiterate is a buzz word for getting tongue tied maybe?

Agreed. I seriously doubt anyone near illiterate could make it to President of the most powerful nation.

DividedThigh
05-13-2008, 01:35 PM
ch i am trying to believe you believe what you say, but the fact is to say what you do about gwb just emphasises your feelings, which are not based on fact, and having barack obama espouse his ideas articulately is no advantage to america since his policies are socialist lunacy, dt

Esther
05-13-2008, 01:38 PM
I think that the dislike of Hillary is the fact she is a woman. She is knowledgeable and has enough history in the White House and in politics to be an asset as President, but as we all know...strong, capable, and well educated women are seen as threatening, and agressive to men. They'd rather have a man with no plan, no credible political history, and with little to no Christian values than allow a woman to rule over men:)

Blessings, Rhoni

I don't trust her nor Bill nor Obama! Has nothing to do with her being a woman.

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 01:55 PM
I don't trust her nor Bill nor Obama! Has nothing to do with her being a woman.

You're not a guy:):gaga

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 01:58 PM
I've only known one...no wait two....neither were members of this forum. Neither one threatened me. In fact they enjoyed having an intelligent man to talk to.


I can relate. Nothing better or more stimulating than talking to an intelligent man. I have a few friends, who are male, that make my life much brighter.:happydance

But I also have some very strong intelligent women that are friends also, and I value them.

Blessings, Rhoni

DividedThigh
05-13-2008, 02:00 PM
I can relate. Nothing better or more stimulating than talking to an intelligent man. I have a few friends, who are male, that make my life much brighter.:happydance

But I also have some very strong intelligent women that are friends also, and I value them.

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni my friend, i think you are one of the smart ones that i enjoy talking to, dt:bliss

TRFrance
05-13-2008, 02:21 PM
I think near illiterate is a buzz word for getting tongue tied maybe?
Maybe, but then again, not really.
To me, it's still insulting, and inappropriate. The idea is to imply stupidity.
(Referring to someone as "getting tongue tied" is not an insult... calling a President "near illiterate" is.)

Moreover, it just feeds into the left-wing and media-fed stereotype that the man is stupid, which he is not.

It's simply incorrect. I remember seeing an interview he did on Fox News once, and he spoke very well, and had a clear command of the issues. I must say it was eye-opening to me, because he showed he was clearly not the dummy the media and the hard-left have portrayed him to be. The Left has just done such a smear campaign against the man for so long (Bush=Hitler, Bush is a moron, etc) and it just irritates me to no end.

I'm not a fan of everything the man has done, but comments the one CH made just grate on me whenever I see them, because to me they represent more of a caricature of the man, than the man himself.

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 02:22 PM
Rhoni my friend, i think you are one of the smart ones that i enjoy talking to, dt:bliss

Thank-you, and ditto:tiphat

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 02:24 PM
Maybe, but then again, not really.
To me, it's still insulting, and inappropriate.
(Referring to someone as "getting tongue tied" is not an insult... calling a President "near illiterate" is.)

Moreover, it just feeds into the left-wing stereotype that the man is stupid, which he is not.

It's simply incorrect. I remember seeing an interview he did on Fox News once, and he spoke very well, and had a clear command of the issues. I must say it was eye-opening to me, because he showed he was clearly not the dummy the media and the hard-left have portrayed him to be. The Left has just done such a smear campaign against the man for so long (Bush=Hitler, Bush is a moron, etc) and it just irritates me to no end.

I'm not a fan of everything the man has done, but comments the one CH made just grate on me whenever I see them, because to me they represent more of a caricature of the man, than the man himself.

Just like most leaders that make a decision that is difficult, Bush has paid for making the decision to join the war against terrorism.

There is nothing illiterate about him, only those who would make such a comment.

Blessings, Rhoni

Sam
05-13-2008, 06:47 PM
I think that the dislike of Hillary is the fact she is a woman. ...

I agree that much of the dislike for Hillary is that she is a woman
but,
there's enough about her to dislike and distrust which is not associated with her gender, things like:
she would be another "Clinton" in the White House
she is way too liberal
can anyone believe anything she says? (remember her "vast right wing conspiracy explanation? her lies about the missing Whitewater papers?)

Sam
05-13-2008, 06:54 PM
... And after Bush's near illiteracy, a man who can speak and has charisma is really appealing...

I hardly think it's correct to call President Bush "illiterate."
That sounds like something the Hollywood and Media crowd say.

I remember right after George W. Bush's election, some one said something about his not being a smooth speaker and the answer was, "We had 8 years of a smooth speaker." A snake oil salesman or a televangelist or a used car salesman or a con artist might be able to speak and have charisma but there is more to being President than that.

OnTheFritz
05-13-2008, 07:22 PM
New to the site. Late to this conversation.

Overly dramatic propaganda video, in my opinion. After reading through this thread, I agree with some and disagree with others (obviously), but it's just interesting how polarized we become when we talk about politics. There is no middle ground. Either he is the anti-hrist, or he's brilliant. I wrote an article a few weeks ago about how our opinions as Christians seem to become "packaged" based on our political leanings. Be curious to hear your thoughts:

http://www.halfwritings.com/2008/04/29/advocate/

I personally like Obama's charisma, though I do think he is dangerously liberal on many issues. I'm tired of the Bushes and Clintons, and I hate to be so shallow, but I'm kind of tired of the "good 'ol white boy network" running the country.

I know, I know.... I'm sure I'll get blasted, but what can I say

Not a great way to introduce myself to the group. ;)

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 07:38 PM
I agree that much of the dislike for Hillary is that she is a woman
but,
there's enough about her to dislike and distrust which is not associated with her gender, things like:
she would be another "Clinton" in the White House
she is way too liberal
can anyone believe anything she says? (remember her "vast right wing conspiracy explanation? her lies about the missing Whitewater papers?)
What are the evidences that the dislike for Hillary is that she is a woman? Why not say the dislike for Obama is because he is black? That is absurd, particularly since it's the Democratic party that is voting for him and not her...Repulibans don't like her same reason they don't like any democrat.

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 07:39 PM
New to the site. Late to this conversation.

Overly dramatic propaganda video, in my opinion. After reading through this thread, I agree with some and disagree with others (obviously), but it's just interesting how polarized we become when we talk about politics. There is no middle ground. Either he is the anti-hrist, or he's brilliant. I wrote an article a few weeks ago about how our opinions as Christians seem to become "packaged" based on our political leanings. Be curious to hear your thoughts:

http://www.halfwritings.com/2008/04/29/advocate/

I personally like Obama's charisma, though I do think he is dangerously liberal on many issues. I'm tired of the Bushes and Clintons, and I hate to be so shallow, but I'm kind of tired of the "good 'ol white boy network" running the country.

I know, I know.... I'm sure I'll get blasted, but what can I say

Not a great way to introduce myself to the group. ;)
Summed up...I like him cuz he is cute and black....that's not a good way to choose a candidate.

OnTheFritz
05-13-2008, 08:22 PM
Summed up...I like him cuz he is cute and black....that's not a good way to choose a candidate.

Okay, okay.

But respectfully, that's not what I said. But since we're summing things up...

Let me sum up the video... his middle name is Hussein - must be a terrorist.

We chose Bush for a lot of legitimate reasons, right? Look how that turned out. :reaction

BrotherEastman
05-13-2008, 08:28 PM
Well, I was going to try and stay away from the general election this year; however, I guess I'm going to have to vote for McCain. Not that I want to, but when I consider the alternatives, it appears that I have no choice.

BrotherEastman
05-13-2008, 08:31 PM
Okay, okay.

But respectfully, that's not what I said. But since we're summing things up...

Let me sum up the video... his middle name is Hussein - must be a terrorist.

We chose Bush for a lot of legitimate reasons, right? Look how that turned out. :reaction
So, we couldn't do no worse? You've got to be kidding? I am almost inclined to believe that if Obama gets into office, there just might be a revolution.

OnTheFritz
05-13-2008, 08:54 PM
So, we couldn't do no worse? You've got to be kidding? I am almost inclined to believe that if Obama gets into office, there just might be a revolution.

Is there ever really a revolution based on which president is in office? Nah. Let's face it, won't change much of anything...

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 09:06 PM
Is there ever really a revolution based on which president is in office? Nah. Let's face it, won't change much of anything...

That is just what the devil wants you to believe. Apathy is a laodician attitude sir!

OnTheFritz
05-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Not apathy, just reality. How did your life change when Clinton was in office....?

Rhoni
05-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Not apathy, just reality. How did your life change when Clinton was in office....?

I don't think you should personalize this...I like the Chinese culture that is aways about the welfare of the whole group and not just one individual.

A better question might be to ask...how or what change did he institute while in office that made American life better?

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 09:42 PM
Okay, okay.

But respectfully, that's not what I said. But since we're summing things up...

Let me sum up the video... his middle name is Hussein - must be a terrorist.

We chose Bush for a lot of legitimate reasons, right? Look how that turned out. :reaction
I never supported the video. But it does seem odd that the two points you made were essentially he is charazmatic (does not mean he will make the right decisions) and he is not white....

What are the good reasons for choosing Obama?

Sam
05-13-2008, 09:47 PM
What are the evidences that the dislike for Hillary is that she is a woman? Why not say the dislike for Obama is because he is black? That is absurd, particularly since it's the Democratic party that is voting for him and not her...Repulibans don't like her same reason they don't like any democrat.

All right, I don't have any statistics, but, it is my opinion that many would not vote for Hillary because she is a woman and many would not vote for Hussein Obama because he is African American.

Although, years ago, a man who was a strong Democrat and Union member, a man I respected as a Christian and who is now dead, said, "I'd vote for a N... if they ran him on the Democrat ticket."

Sam
05-13-2008, 09:50 PM
...
We chose Bush for a lot of legitimate reasons, right? Look how that turned out. :reaction

I voted for George Bush twice.
After almost 8 years, I still don't think he is a bad president.

Sam
05-13-2008, 09:52 PM
Well, I was going to try and stay away from the general election this year; however, I guess I'm going to have to vote for McCain. Not that I want to, but when I consider the alternatives, it appears that I have no choice.

In my opinion, it is better to vote for McCain than to refuse to vote or to vote for some third party candidate who has no chance of winning.

We may not agree 100 percent with John McCain but we would agree with him much more than we would with Hillary of Hussein.

Praxeas
05-13-2008, 10:04 PM
All right, I don't have any statistics, but, it is my opinion that many would not vote for Hillary because she is a woman and many would not vote for Hussein Obama because he is African American.

Although, years ago, a man who was a strong Democrat and Union member, a man I respected as a Christian and who is now dead, said, "I'd vote for a N... if they ran him on the Democrat ticket."
That is not evidence, obviously. I see no evidence that the reason "many" don't like her is that she is a woman.

OnTheFritz
05-13-2008, 10:04 PM
I never supported the video. But it does seem odd that the two points you made were essentially he is charazmatic (does not mean he will make the right decisions) and he is not white....

What are the good reasons for choosing Obama?

Good reasons for voting for him are the same reasons you would vote for any Democrat. If you agree with the Democrats - he's a typical one. Just look on Wikipedia for a thorough analysis of his stances. To go point by point on that wouldn't be much different than it would be for Hillary. You either fall in that category or you don't.

All of those stances being relatively equal, and if you lean to the left, then it may come down to admittedly less important things like communication skills and forthrightness. Those aren't THE reasons, obviously.

Honestly, I don't like anybody all that much. I just like the Republicans a little less. The way the Republicans cater to the Christian Right in order to get the vote just rubs me wrong. I agree with many of the far right issues, but the blending of politics with Christianity is a real turn-off.

Sam
05-13-2008, 10:12 PM
That is not evidence, obviously. I see no evidence that the reason "many" don't like her is that she is a woman.

Well, like I said, I have no proof, evidence, or statistics.
It is my opinion that many do not like her because she is a woman.
I think it's part of being a "gob" (good old boy) the same attitude that has tried to keep women down or "in their place" for years. Maybe some men feel threatened by her.

The attached cartoon is not intended to offend but I think it shows the "gob" mentality.

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 05:00 AM
Well, like I said, I have no proof, evidence, or statistics.
It is my opinion that many do not like her because she is a woman.
I think it's part of being a "gob" (good old boy) the same attitude that has tried to keep women down or "in their place" for years. Maybe some men feel threatened by her.

The attached cartoon is not intended to offend but I think it shows the "gob" mentality.

ABSOLUTELY! There always has been a glass ceiling on leadership positions in and out of the church...women have to work twice as hard, produce twice, as much as a man in the same position and she is always seen as being aggressive, out of her place, and an ogre.

Do you think this was what God meant when he put the curse on Eve? Or do you think is is just man's fallen nature that wants to beat up on women instead of loving them?

Esther
05-14-2008, 06:16 AM
ABSOLUTELY! There always has been a glass ceiling on leadership positions in and out of the church...women have to work twice as hard, produce twice, as much as a man in the same position and she is always seen as being aggressive, out of her place, and an ogre.

Do you think this was what God meant when he put the curse on Eve? Or do you think is is just man's fallen nature that wants to beat up on women instead of loving them?

I have seen this in the work place as well, not limited to just churches.

BrotherEastman
05-14-2008, 06:46 AM
Is there ever really a revolution based on which president is in office? Nah. Let's face it, won't change much of anything...
I hope you're right, but I doubt it.

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 07:08 AM
I have seen this in the work place as well, not limited to just churches.

LOL...read my post again:)
Originally Posted by Rhoni http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forum/NewBlueDefault/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=463735#post463735)
ABSOLUTELY! There always has been a glass ceiling on leadership positions in and out of the church...women have to work twice as hard, produce twice, as much as a man in the same position and she is always seen as being aggressive, out of her place, and an ogre.

Do you think this was what God meant when he put the curse on Eve? Or do you think is is just man's fallen nature that wants to beat up on women instead of loving them?

Antipas
05-14-2008, 10:33 AM
Christians loose their Christianity when it comes to politics. Good men full of the Holy Ghost will perpetuate lies/propaganda and attack fellow saints of God who disagree. Maybe the early Amish and Minnonites were right by abstaining from participation in politics to focus on Christian living. Today most Christians are just pawns for the right or for the left. A sad state of affairs indeed.

Ron
05-14-2008, 10:37 AM
Christians loose their Christianity when it comes to politics. Good men full of the Holy Ghost will perpetuate lies/propaganda and attack fellow saints of God who disagree. Maybe the early Amish and Minnonites were right by abstaining from participation in politics to focus on Christian living. Today most Christians are just pawns for the right or for the left. A sad state of affairs indeed.

So true!

Up in Canada, while we don't have a clause in our Constitution that states a separation of Church and state, Churches or more importantly, non profit entities are not supposed to be political.

In Canada, if one candidate/party is endorsed from the pulpit, they are in danger of losing thier tax exempt status.

DividedThigh
05-14-2008, 10:38 AM
I always vote my heart, that puts His spirit in the lead in my life and politics, dt

Antipas
05-14-2008, 10:39 AM
Just last night I was at a brother's house and he showed me a video about a candidate that had some significant distortions. I didn't endorce any candidate, I just pointed out the distortions and advised he review factschecker websites in the internet. He raised his voice at me and began to interrupt everything I had to say and questioned my devotion to the Lord. When I got the chance I told him that I wasn't willing to be abused and told him that our friendship was over. I left, my wife was virtually in tears because she loves this family. That's what politics has turned us into.

DividedThigh
05-14-2008, 10:40 AM
i would like to say also that i agree to an extent with you antipas, and dont spend much time with politics as a discussion at church, dt

tstew
05-14-2008, 10:45 AM
All right, I don't have any statistics, but, it is my opinion that many would not vote for Hillary because she is a woman and many would not vote for Hussein Obama because he is African American.

Although, years ago, a man who was a strong Democrat and Union member, a man I respected as a Christian and who is now dead, said, "I'd vote for a N... if they ran him on the Democrat ticket."

Kind of off topic, but I find it interesting that someone who is "respected as a Christian (Christ-like)" would make a comment like that. That is a reason that of the criticisms that are leveled at mainstream Christianity by some people does get traction.

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 11:14 AM
All right, I don't have any statistics, but, it is my opinion that many would not vote for Hillary because she is a woman and many would not vote for Hussein Obama because he is African American.

Although, years ago, a man who was a strong Democrat and Union member, a man I respected as a Christian and who is now dead, said, "I'd vote for a N... if they ran him on the Democrat ticket."

Did you still respect him "as a Christian" after he made that comment?

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 11:39 AM
Did you still respect him "as a Christian" after he made that comment?
Culturally, in the past, the term was used as a term of identity and not degrogatory as it would be used today.

Rico
05-14-2008, 11:42 AM
Culturally, in the past, the term was used as a term of identity and not degrogatory as it would be used today.

It's always been a derogatory term, Rhoni.

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 11:44 AM
It's always been a derogatory term, Rhoni.

Actually in the deep south it was a term of endearment to African American friends/acquaintences. At least this was my understanding. I was raised in Ohio and I would never/have never used the term but my first introduction to this was Florida in the early 70's.

Ron
05-14-2008, 11:46 AM
Actually in the deep south it was a term of endearment to African American frieds. At least this was my understanding. I was raised in Ohio and I would never/have never used the term but my first introduction to this was Florida in the early 70's.

My Pastor is an African American from Ohio & he said that the "N" word has never been anything but derogatory!

Baron1710
05-14-2008, 11:47 AM
It's always been a derogatory term, Rhoni.

You mean like when Kanye West says...

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke n*****

Rico
05-14-2008, 11:49 AM
You mean like when Kanye West says...

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke n*****

Walk up to a black man and call him one. See what happens.

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 11:49 AM
Culturally, in the past, the term was used as a term of identity and not degrogatory as it would be used today.

Um... I think not, Rhoni.

When they were lynching blacks in the early 1900's and calling them n*****s, that wasn't simply a matter of "identity".

It was derogatory. And always has been.

http://www.ngbiwm.com/Exhibits/Lynching%20in%20the%20United%20States%20-%20Wikipedia,%20the%20free%20encyclopedia_files/300px-Lynching-of-lige-daniels.jpg

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 11:54 AM
I'm sorry if I understood it incorrectly. Thank-you for calling it to my attention.

Blessings, Rhoni

Baron1710
05-14-2008, 11:56 AM
Walk up to a black man and call him one. See what happens.

If it is always a derogatory term then why do I hear young black mean referring to each other in that way almost daily?

Rico
05-14-2008, 12:11 PM
If it is always a derogatory term then why do I hear young black mean referring to each other in that way almost daily?

Because it is acceptable to them to call each other that name. If a white man does it, it's fightin' words. I'm not saying that makes sense, but that's the way it is.

DividedThigh
05-14-2008, 12:23 PM
true rico that is the way it is, the n word is a degogatory mean degrading term used to put people down, fact is there is a double standard, depending on whom is talking, i believe it is evil and wrong, and should be for all, dt:blah:blah

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 12:32 PM
true rico that is the way it is, the n word is a degogatory mean degrading term used to put people down, fact is there is a double standard, depending on whom is talking, i believe it is evil and wrong, and should be for all, dt:blah:blah

Because it is acceptable to them to call each other that name. If a white man does it, it's fightin' words. I'm not saying that makes sense, but that's the way it is.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense when understood in social context. A black man using it is different from a while man using it, because there's no derogatory intent. And it's like that with a variety of social groups. For example,I've seen where one Puerto Rican man jokingly called his other Puerto Rican buddy a silly "spic" <--- (a slang term generally considered derogatory toward PR's.) . Everyone there kinda chuckled, but those who were not Puerto Rican understood that we couldn't say that without it being a problem. Its just how it is.

Its the same thing with women and the b word, for example. A woman using it is different from a man using it. A woman might say something like "You know I'm a tough b____ when people get on my nerves". But she'd never want a man EVER calling her that by any means, or them's fightin' words.

Its not a matter of it being a double-standard, as some might say. The fact is, a word can be taken as being offensive or not-so-offensive based on situational context. I think we all know that.

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 12:35 PM
By the way...did you guys see the new Obama campaign ads in Kentucky?

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/375071.aspx
http://race42008.com/2008/05/12/barack-obamas-pitch-in-kentucky/

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll30/EconGradStud/Obama.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll30/EconGradStud/Barack.jpg

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 12:41 PM
I wonder if the media is gong to make a big deal over this with Obama... they way the wanted to rake Mike Huckabee over the coals for [supposedly] having a "cross image" in this Christmas ad last year?

http://www.goatstar.org/HuckabeeAd.jpg

Somehow, I think not.

DividedThigh
05-14-2008, 12:44 PM
the ads are interesting, by the way my opinion is that if using a racial slur is wrong then it is wrong for all, period, dt:blah

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 12:56 PM
the ads are interesting, by the way my opinion is that if using a racial slur is wrong then it is wrong for all, period, dt:blah

Well, your opinion is noted.

And my opinion is that the "slur" is not contained solely in the word itself, but also depends on the intent of the speaker in that context. That's where balance and context come into play when looking at these things. Anyway, people will still be debating this same issue 20 years from now, so.... it is what it is.

DividedThigh
05-14-2008, 12:58 PM
Well, your opinion is noted.

And my opinion is that the "slur" is not contained solely in the word itself, but also depends on the intent of the speaker in that context. That's where balance and context come into play when looking at these things. Anyway, people will still be debating this same issue 20 years from now, so.... it is what it is.

agreed bro, that context thing that is the rub, and judging intent, better left up to god, lol,dt

tstew
05-14-2008, 02:51 PM
agreed bro, that context thing that is the rub, and judging intent, better left up to god, lol,dt

I don't like the word at all due to the historical content in our history, but it's kind of like how the "You know you're a redneck if..." enterprise is different coming from a self-proclaimed redneck, than from anyone else whether black or white.

Rico
05-14-2008, 02:55 PM
I don't like the word at all due to the historical content in our history, but it's kind of like how the "You know you're a redneck if..." enterprise is different coming from a self-proclaimed redneck, than from anyone else whether black or white.

Thanks to Foxworthy, it is now cool to be a redneck! :happydance

Sam
05-14-2008, 03:39 PM
Did you still respect him "as a Christian" after he made that comment?

Yes, I didn't agree with his use of the "n" word but I considered him a good man. He, and all of us, are influenced by many things throughout our life. His mother never learned to read and ran away from her family in Virginia as a young woman to escape being worked like a field hand. His father was an Apostolic preacher. I never heard his father use the "n" word but he was from Virginia also (not West Virginia ---old Virginia). If these people were still alive they would be well over 100 years old. They were a product of the culture of their times.

By the way, these folks had gone to "colored" (the term used back then) Pentecostal churches and fellowshipped them. The "n" word used by the man was meant in a derogatory way. He would probably say something about there being "colored" people who were fine people but then there were some n....s also.

I'm not comfortable using the "n" word. I don't use it. I'm just trying to show that over the years, and even today there is a lot of prejudice. I think we are all tainted by it. It's something that God has to work on us about.

Antipas
05-14-2008, 03:39 PM
I wonder if the media is gong to make a big deal over this with Obama... they way the wanted to rake Mike Huckabee over the coals for [supposedly] having a "cross image" in this Christmas ad last year?

http://www.goatstar.org/HuckabeeAd.jpg

Somehow, I think not.

I don't remember Huck's advertisement being that much of an issue. I do remember how it was asked if he was trying to specifically appeal to Religious conservatives with the use of symbolism.

I think in our culture people fear conservatives, especially religious conservatives. Americans are a freedom loving, "to each his own", people. Religious conservatives have a reputation for wanting to control or teach religion to others using government, especially in the areas of education and marriage. They also see more discriminatory attitudes among religious conservatives. So they see it like it's an effort to motivate a mass of people who will vote to restrict liberty not protect it. In their minds it's dangerous. Now a religious liberal can be as personally conservative or liberal as they like...but they will typically stand for civil rights and individual liberties by restricting religious teachings/doctrines from being taught in public schools and allow individuals to marry who they like...even if it's personally viewed as immoral. So the don't really fear religious liberals. Also religious conservatives have a tendency to be the pawns of free market advocates who have the reputuation of trampling worker's rights, living wages, benefits, environmental protections, etc. to increase profit margin. So again, they fear religious conservatives. A religious liberal will typically fight to strengthn worker's rights, wages, benefits, environmental standards, etc. So they see them as protectors and feel safe with them.

So I think the world has a tendency to be more concerned with a conservative politician's use of religion than a liberal's.

TRFrance
05-14-2008, 04:14 PM
I don't remember Huck's advertisement being that much of an issue. I do remember how it was asked if he was trying to specifically appeal to Religious conservatives with the use of symbolism.


I remember it was, if only for several days.... which is why MH had to "clarify" and explain himself that it was not some subliminal attempt to put a "Christian message" out there. But of course many of the media pundits and commentators were a bit skeptical,(specifically on MSNBC, as I seem to remember it) to say the least.


I think in our culture people fear conservatives, especially religious conservatives. Americans are a freedom loving, "to each his own", people. Religious conservatives have a reputation for wanting to control or teach religion to others using government, especially in the areas of education and marriage. They also see more discriminatory attitudes among religious conservatives. So they see it like it's an effort to motivate a mass of people who will vote to restrict liberty not protect it. In their minds it's dangerous. Now a religious liberal can be as personally conservative or liberal as they like...but they will typically stand for civil rights and individual liberties by restricting religious teachings/doctrines from being taught in public schools and allow individuals to marry who they like...even if it's personally viewed as immoral.
So I think the world has a tendency to be more concerned with a conservative politician's use of religion than a liberal's.

Well, the news media is hypocritical on the issue when it comes to Conservatives and Liberals and religion. Democrats can campaign in churches all day long "to round up the vote" (they seem to do it in black churches a lot) and nobody bats an eye or talks about violation of IRS rules on religious organizations, separation of church from politics, etc. But let a Republican try to do the same thing, and we'll hear how it's inappropriate, he's being a tool of the religious right, he's possibly violating IRS rules, etc.

And I'm particularly disgusted by these so-called pastors who pimp out their pulpits to local & national politicians during election season, letting these people use the "house of the Lord" as just another stop on the campaign trail.

OnTheFritz
05-14-2008, 04:14 PM
I don't remember Huck's advertisement being that much of an issue. I do remember how it was asked if he was trying to specifically appeal to Religious conservatives with the use of symbolism.

I think in our culture people fear conservatives, especially religious conservatives. Americans are a freedom loving, "to each his own", people. Religious conservatives have a reputation for wanting to control or teach religion to others using government, especially in the areas of education and marriage. They also see more discriminatory attitudes among religious conservatives. So they see it like it's an effort to motivate a mass of people who will vote to restrict liberty not protect it. In their minds it's dangerous. Now a religious liberal can be as personally conservative or liberal as they like...but they will typically stand for civil rights and individual liberties by restricting religious teachings/doctrines from being taught in public schools and allow individuals to marry who they like...even if it's personally viewed as immoral. So the don't really fear religious liberals. Also religious conservatives have a tendency to be the pawns of free market advocates who have the reputuation of trampling worker's rights, living wages, benefits, environmental protections, etc. to increase profit margin. So again, they fear religious conservatives. A religious liberal will typically fight to strengthn worker's rights, wages, benefits, environmental standards, etc. So they see them as protectors and feel safe with them.

So I think the world has a tendency to be more concerned with a conservative politician's use of religion than a liberal's.

Very well said.

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 05:45 PM
I remember it was, if only for several days.... which is why MH had to "clarify" and explain himself that it was not some subliminal attempt to put a "Christian message" out there. But of course many of the media pundits and commentators were a bit skeptical,(specifically on MSNBC, as I seem to remember it) to say the least.



Well, the news media is hypocritical on the issue when it comes to Conservatives and Liberals and religion. Democrats can campaign in churches all day long "to round up the vote" (they seem to do it in black churches a lot) and nobody bats an eye or talks about violation of IRS rules on religious organizations, separation of church from politics, etc. But let a Republican try to do the same thing, and we'll hear how it's inappropriate, he's being a tool of the religious right, he's possibly violation IRS rules, etc.

And I'm particularly disgusted by these so-called pastors who pimp out their pulpits to local & national politicians during election season, letting these people use the "house of the Lord" as just another stop on the campaign trail.


Absolutely! Great insight TRF!

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 07:16 PM
Do you think that John Edward's support of Obama is timely? Do you think he wants Vice President seat?

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 07:18 PM
Fox & Friends was talking tonight about the fact that Clinton is losing only due to sexism in among the male population. Interesting things happening now.

I really don't think that Obama can win an election...the dirt will really fly when/if he becomes the nominee.

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 07:48 PM
*bump*

Praxeas
05-14-2008, 08:06 PM
Fox & Friends was talking tonight about the fact that Clinton is losing only due to sexism in among the male population. Interesting things happening now.

I really don't think that Obama can win an election...the dirt will really fly when/if he becomes the nominee.
how did they establish that as a fact?

Also doesn't that then mean most Democratic men are sexist?

Rhoni
05-14-2008, 08:44 PM
how did they establish that as a fact?

Also doesn't that then mean most Democratic men are sexist?

No, nothing was proven - just speculation. It would seem that we aren't the only ones who think that Clinton might be sabotogued related to her being a woman.

jaxfam6
05-24-2008, 07:34 AM
Speaking of Obama, here is a little something from off of Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp