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View Full Version : Will Conservatives Self-Fulfill Phophecy in Nov.?


Hoovie
05-26-2008, 01:00 AM
This http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_dobson_evangelical/2008/05/18/97063.html?s=al&promo_code=6293-1 Newsmax article claims:

One unidentified source long-active in Christian politics told Novak that many evangelicals have embraced the concept that an Obama presidency "might be what the American people deserve."


That, writes Novak, "fits what has largely been a fringe position among evangelicals - that the pain of an Obama presidency is in keeping with the Bible's prophecy."

© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Could you sit out of a general election or even intentionally vote for someone you opposed, just to inflict a well deserved "Pain" on the country?

I can understand (sort of) voting third party if it matches ones ideals much better than the other choices.

But the idea of self-fulfilling doom is a bit weird to me.

pelathais
05-26-2008, 06:45 AM
This http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_dobson_evangelical/2008/05/18/97063.html?s=al&promo_code=6293-1 Newsmax article claims:

One unidentified source long-active in Christian politics told Novak that many evangelicals have embraced the concept that an Obama presidency "might be what the American people deserve."


That, writes Novak, "fits what has largely been a fringe position among evangelicals - that the pain of an Obama presidency is in keeping with the Bible's prophecy."

© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Could you sit out of a general election or even intentionally vote for someone you opposed, just to inflict a well deserved "Pain" on the country?

I can understand (sort of) voting third party if it matches ones ideals much better than the other choices.

But the idea of self-fulfilling doom is a bit weird to me.
It's a wrong headed notion, that's for sure. It seems to resonate with the "I'm in touch with God and if you don't agree with my every mood swing and hormonal imbalance that just proves you're going to burn in hell..." mindset.

People like this abdicated their moral gravitas long ago.

Sister Alvear
05-26-2008, 06:47 AM
America may face what she has never faced but to vote for him trying to fulfill prophecy seems a little far out in my mind...

ManOfWord
05-26-2008, 06:50 AM
If we get him, it may well be what we deserve....but it won't be because I voted for him, I can guarantee you that!! :D

Sister Alvear
05-26-2008, 07:15 AM
So true friend...America really needs to pray. I cannot see how any christian could vote for Obama...

OP_Carl
05-26-2008, 07:26 AM
This http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_dobson_evangelical/2008/05/18/97063.html?s=al&promo_code=6293-1 Newsmax article claims:

One unidentified source long-active in Christian politics told Novak that many evangelicals have embraced the concept that an Obama presidency "might be what the American people deserve."


That, writes Novak, "fits what has largely been a fringe position among evangelicals - that the pain of an Obama presidency is in keeping with the Bible's prophecy."

© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Could you sit out of a general election or even intentionally vote for someone you opposed, just to inflict a well deserved "Pain" on the country?

I can understand (sort of) voting third party if it matches ones ideals much better than the other choices.

But the idea of self-fulfilling doom is a bit weird to me.

I disagree with the premise that "the pain of an Obama presidency is in keeping with the Bible's prophecy."

I do, however, believe that a McCain presidency will take the Republican party in a direction unpalatable to we fundamental Christians. McCain isn't courting our vote because he knows we will calculate him to be the lesser of two evils come November. Some of us are becoming fed up with being taken for granted by the coalition. Very little action has followed the lip service played for our vote.

In addition, a McCain presidency will place the few remaining congressional conservatives in quite a pickle. They will fracture their own party. If Obama were president, the Rebublican legislators would at least unite to resist him.

I believe we are accountable to God for our votes, so I could not in good conscience make a "suicide vote." :nah But I've thought about it. :hmmm :uhoh

RevBuddy
05-26-2008, 08:20 AM
If we get him, it may well be what we deserve....but it won't be because I voted for him, I can guarantee you that!! :D


I agree with MOW!! If he is elected, it will not be because I voted for him as some sort of protest...that's a decidedly silly notion...

...but wait, that means I agree with MOW?!?!?! How in the world did that happen??!!?!?! It must be the end-time! :toofunny :toofunny

Esther
05-26-2008, 12:11 PM
So true friend...America really needs to pray. I cannot see how any christian could vote for Obama...


Amen Sister!!!!

I agree with MOW!! If he is elected, it will not be because I voted for him as some sort of protest...that's a decidedly silly notion...

...but wait, that means I agree with MOW?!?!?! How in the world did that happen??!!?!?! It must be the end-time! :toofunny :toofunny

Same here.

Cindy
05-26-2008, 12:18 PM
I will not vote for him.

Grasshopper
05-26-2008, 09:33 PM
This http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_dobson_evangelical/2008/05/18/97063.html?s=al&promo_code=6293-1 Newsmax article claims:

One unidentified source long-active in Christian politics told Novak that many evangelicals have embraced the concept that an Obama presidency "might be what the American people deserve."


That, writes Novak, "fits what has largely been a fringe position among evangelicals - that the pain of an Obama presidency is in keeping with the Bible's prophecy."

© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Could you sit out of a general election or even intentionally vote for someone you opposed, just to inflict a well deserved "Pain" on the country?

I can understand (sort of) voting third party if it matches ones ideals much better than the other choices.

But the idea of self-fulfilling doom is a bit weird to me.

And what if Obama proves to be a relatively decent, though liberal, President?

I remember a wiley-eyed sister tell me President Clinton was Antichrist and assured me he'd declare martial law, stay in office, and lead our nation into global Beast government.

I look back at all that foolishness and realize that the conservative paranoia is down right laughable. Bush, a conservative Republican has proven to be the closest thing we've had to a dictator in America's history. While Bush didn't commit adultery...Bush is a war mongering, globalist, who's policies have nearly eviscerated Constitutional liberties via the Patriot Act. I think McCain is far more terrifying than Obama. Obama may not only make history...he may be our generations great orator like Abraham Lincoln. (Remember Lincoln was viewed by his political opponents as a radical liberal.)

Grasshopper
05-26-2008, 09:39 PM
So true friend...America really needs to pray. I cannot see how any christian could vote for Obama...

I can't see how any Christian can vote for any modern corporate lackey Republican who will just shaft the American people they more corporate cronyism. I like REAL discussion. Abortion and gay marriage is off the table because the Republicans don't plan on really addressing those issues. This is about rather you'll be able to afford health insurance. This is about rather you'll be able to afford groceries. This is if you'll keep your job so you can feed your family. This is about bread and butter issues. The Republicans have given corporations cart blanche permission to move more and more of American jobs overseas without upholding fair trade principles that protect foreign workers and domestic production.

Most loonies I know here who don't like Obama think he's a Muslim who won't say the Pledge. This has been thoroughly debunked by fact checkers but loonies still believe it because they're so gullible. If that's happening here in the U.S. ....I can only imagine what kind of insanity is being said about him in Brazil.

Rico
05-26-2008, 10:05 PM
And what if Obama proves to be a relatively decent, though liberal, President?

I remember a wiley-eyed sister tell me President Clinton was Antichrist and assured me he'd declare martial law, stay in office, and lead our nation into global Beast government.

I look back at all that foolishness and realize that the conservative paranoia is down right laughable. Bush, a conservative Republican has proven to be the closest thing we've had to a dictator in America's history. While Bush didn't commit adultery...Bush is a war mongering, globalist, who's policies have nearly eviscerated Constitutional liberties via the Patriot Act. I think McCain is far more terrifying than Obama. Obama may not only make history...he may be our generations great orator like Abraham Lincoln. (Remember Lincoln was viewed by his political opponents as a radical liberal.)

I remember hearing, when Clinton was running for office, that it had been prophesied over him that he would be elected governor of Arkansas, President of the USA, and that he'd usher in the anti-Christ. Like Meatloaf said, "Two out of three ain't bad!"

Cindy
05-27-2008, 12:21 AM
And what if Obama proves to be a relatively decent, though liberal, President?

I remember a wiley-eyed sister tell me President Clinton was Antichrist and assured me he'd declare martial law, stay in office, and lead our nation into global Beast government.

I look back at all that foolishness and realize that the conservative paranoia is down right laughable. Bush, a conservative Republican has proven to be the closest thing we've had to a dictator in America's history. While Bush didn't commit adultery...Bush is a war mongering, globalist, who's policies have nearly eviscerated Constitutional liberties via the Patriot Act. I think McCain is far more terrifying than Obama. Obama may not only make history...he may be our generations great orator like Abraham Lincoln. (Remember Lincoln was viewed by his political opponents as a radical liberal.)


:toofunny

Grasshopper
05-27-2008, 05:41 AM
I wonder if the political hacks would prophesy such doom and gloom if we could stone them if they got it wrong? ;)

OP_Carl
05-27-2008, 03:14 PM
I wonder if the political hacks would prophesy such doom and gloom if we could stone them if they got it wrong? ;)

Absolutely. :winkgrin And meteorologists should only get paid for the days for which they correctly forecast the weather! :ranting :toofunny

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Absolutely. :winkgrin And meteorologists should only get paid for the days for which they correctly forecast the weather! :ranting :toofunny

If I was a weatherman my forecast for every single day would be as follows:


Folks, it might rain today. Then again, it might be sunny. It might be hot today. Then again, it might be cold.


:D:D

1Corinth2v4
05-27-2008, 03:55 PM
So true friend...America really needs to pray. I cannot see how any christian could vote for Obama...

Why is that Sister Alvear? How's the Amazon? How I long to get a lawn chair and sit in the middle of the jungles, in the midnight hours. I'm sure the sounds would be relaxing.



P.S. I would also have a 44mag on my lap :thumbsup

OP_Carl
05-27-2008, 04:01 PM
If I was a weatherman my forecast for every single day would be as follows:


Folks, it might rain today. Then again, it might be sunny. It might be hot today. Then again, it might be cold.


:D:D

Well then you wouldn't be a meteorologist, would you? You'd be a populist! :toofunny

tstew
05-27-2008, 04:06 PM
Well then you wouldn't be a meteorologist, would you? You'd be a populist! :toofunny

...or any politician for that matter...Republican or Democrat...:beatdeadhorse

OP_Carl
05-27-2008, 05:13 PM
...or any politician for that matter...Republican or Democrat...:beatdeadhorse

Maybe that kind of a catch-all forecast is a sign of a defeatist? :doh

scotty
05-27-2008, 05:37 PM
And what if Obama proves to be a relatively decent, though liberal, President? :toofunny

I remember a wiley-eyed sister tell me President Clinton was Antichrist and assured me he'd declare martial law, stay in office, and lead our nation into global Beast government.

Well, it did take him awhile to leave after Bush swore in. He threw himself that big party in the hanger at Andrews. :toofunny

I look back at all that foolishness and realize that the conservative paranoia is down right laughable. Bush, a conservative Republican has proven to be the closest thing we've had to a dictator in America's history. :crazywallsWhile Bush didn't commit adultery...Bush is a war mongering, globalist, who's policies have nearly eviscerated Constitutional liberties via the Patriot Act. :blahI think McCain is far more terrifying than Obama. Obama may not only make history..So we are supposed to look forward to that just because he will be the first black president? Now there is a sensable reason to run out and vote..he may be our generations great orator like Abraham Lincoln. (Remember Lincoln was viewed by his political opponents as a radical liberal.):toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

I can't see how any Christian can vote for any modern corporate lackey Republican who will just shaft the American people they more corporate cronyism. I like REAL discussion. Abortion and gay marriage is off the table because the Republicans don't plan on really addressing those issues. This is about rather you'll be able to afford health insurance. :crazywallsThis is about rather you'll be able to afford groceries. :blahThis is if you'll keep your job so you can feed your family. :blahThis is about bread and butter issues. :blahThe Republicans have given corporations cart blanche permission to move more and more of American jobs overseas without upholding fair trade principles that protect foreign workers and domestic production. Nope, the workers done that all by themselves. And don't forget, clinton sold us out to China long before any Trade Agreement.

Most loonies I know here who don't like Obama think he's a Muslim who won't say the Pledge. So we don't like Obama makes us a "loony" ? That's original, and mature to say the least. This has been thoroughly debunked by fact checkers but loonies still believe it because they're so gullible. If that's happening here in the U.S. ....I can only imagine what kind of insanity is being said about him in Brazil.

Isn't it funny though that the muslims are cheering for him to win ? No I don't think he is muslim, but I don't think he has the where-with-all to protect us, I think they cheer for him because they know if he gets elected then it will be a field day on Americans.

Say , are you kin to Christopher Hall ? or ...maybe......him in disguise ? :drama

Grasshopper
05-28-2008, 06:23 AM
:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Isn't it funny though that the muslims are cheering for him to win ? No I don't think he is muslim, but I don't think he has the where-with-all to protect us, I think they cheer for him because they know if he gets elected then it will be a field day on Americans.

I think they are cheering him because they know he’s not a warmonger. If you were a Muslim family living in the Middle East you’d also pray that a more diplomatic statesman become President of the United States. They don’t want this endless war…they know it will be their children being blown to pieces by American bombs.

They also fear Bush like he’s a madman, a militaristic dictator. In their eyes he invaded Iraq unjustly and the invasion has now taken over 80,000 Iraqi civilian lives. They want this thing over, it’s destabilizing their already volatile region.


Say , are you kin to Christopher Hall ? or ...maybe......him in disguise ? :drama[/QUOTE]

Yes, I’m Chris. Let me tell you a story. I was on another forum and I was denigrated, called Communist, and worse. Well, a few brothers in the church I used to attend read some of my comments and what others said about me. They decided to confront me for some things I said about Bush (this was during the 2004 elections). The confrontation almost turned physical. One even called me a “terrorist”. While I got shoved around a little, thankfully it didn’t come to blows. As I posted here I realized that the labels and insults you, Ferd, and DT were using against me for politically disagreeing with you could open me up to more confrontation from right wing nutcases in the future. In a recent thread I think Baron referred to me as “young grasshopper”. So I took that handle so that I can feel safer. With people calling me Communist, baby killer, Red, and worse because I don’t agree with the Republican mantra I thought it best to be as anonymous as possible. I have a son now, so I need to think about keeping myself relatively safe.

Baron1710
05-28-2008, 06:49 AM
I think they are cheering him because they know he’s not a warmonger. If you were a Muslim family living in the Middle East you’d also pray that a more diplomatic statesman become President of the United States. They don’t want this endless war…they know it will be their children being blown to pieces by American bombs.

They also fear Bush like he’s a madman, a militaristic dictator. In their eyes he invaded Iraq unjustly and the invasion has now taken over 80,000 Iraqi civilian lives. They want this thing over, it’s destabilizing their already volatile region.



The problem is people believe the lie that there are tolerant, peace loving Muslims. I sit across from one of those "moderate" Muslims 5 days a weak, and I assure you he is anything but moderate, in my view. He would love to see Sharia law enforced throughout the world. When I asked him why Muslims thought it was ok to oppress and kill people from other religions he insisted he believed in freedom of religion, until you questioned him further. This didn't include Muslims being allowed to convert, Oh no they should be killed, but he would be merciful because he is moderate and give them 3 chances to recant. Oh and those Christians that want to practice well as long as they do it in the privacy of their home then its OK.

This is the peaceful moderate Muslim.

We must never give place to this bloody religion for even a moment they only want peace when they are weak.

Pressing-On
05-28-2008, 07:09 AM
The problem is people believe the lie that there are tolerant, peace loving Muslims. I sit across from one of those "moderate" Muslims 5 days a weak, and I assure you he is anything but moderate, in my view. He would love to see Sharia law enforced throughout the world. When I asked him why he Muslims thought it was ok to oppress and kill people from other religions he insisted he believed in freedom of religion, until you questioned him further. This didn't include Muslims being allowed to convert, Oh no they should be killed, but he would be merciful because he is moderate and give them 3 chances to recant. Oh and those Christians that want to practice well as long as they do it in the privacy of their home then its OK.

This is the peaceful moderate Muslim.

We must never give place to this bloody religion for even a moment they only want peace when they are weak.

Excellent post. I totally agree!

This article by Cal Thomas is so on point!!!

A few of the highlights:

Obama - See no Evil
Cal Thomas

Obama's only foreign policy strategy seems to be diplomacy, not the defeat of evil. Such an approach when not supported by a credible threat of military power is bound to encourage more evil, not less.

and especially this point!:

Obama's "strategy" for dealing with evil is the progeny of a secular age that sees everything bad as curable through counseling, good intentions masquerading as wishful thinking and/or pharmaceutical intervention. Prosperity and a sense of entitlement have dulled our senses to what evil looks like. These days, evil is the political party to which you don't belong and the ideology to which you do not subscribe.

Evil has a definition. Dictionary.com calls it: "morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked." There is a presumption contained in this definition. It is that a standard exists by which evil (and its opposite, good) may be judged. Too many of us have been taught in government schools and by contemporary culture that such notions belong to another, less sophisticated era. In the Internet age "evil" has become extinct.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/CalThomas/2008/05/28/obama_see_no_evil?page=1

DividedThigh
05-28-2008, 08:34 AM
Excellent post. I totally agree!

This article by Cal Thomas is so on point!!!

A few of the highlights:



and especially this point!:

good points press, cal thomas is right on, dt