Do you believe in Pentecostal Shouting?

[Dr. Vaughn]

I made that explanation in the other thread also!

What explanation?

[Michael Phelps]

Just for the record, BV, the Bible gives this Hebrew definition for one of usages of the word praise -

HALAL
1) to shine

a) (Qal) to shine (fig. of God's favour)

b) (Hiphil) to flash forth light

2) to praise, boast, be boastful

a) (Qal)

1) to be boastful

2) boastful ones, boasters (participle)

b) (Piel)

1) to praise

2) to boast, make a boast

c) (Pual)

1) to be praised, be made praiseworthy, be commended, be worthy of praise

d) (Hithpael) to boast, glory, make one's boast

e) (Poel) to make a fool of, make into a fool

f) (Hithpoel) to act madly, act like a madman


ALso, when David danced befor the ark, here's the definition:

KARAR:
(Pilpel) to whirl, dance

a) whirling, dancing (participle)

[theoldpaths]

Actually we have scriptural precedence for preaching styles,,, Paul was more of a teacher Phillip was evangelistic.. Timothy preached Pastorally.... so preaching style has merely to do with ones background and none of those styles are condemned so long as the Word is being preached

Would you care to respond to the whole Pentecostal DRUNK deception.. about this meaning people were shouting everywhere?

Well I'm not aware of the whole "Pentecostal DRUNK deception" - don't know what that is.

What I do know is this:

- the observers thought that the 120 were drunk
- it was noised abroad
- they were not drunk as THEY SUPPOSED

I will agree that there is no scripture that says they were shouting, but it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. Acts 8 doesn't say they spoke in tongues, but most if not all apostolics believe that they did - it just wasn't written.

Strong's - "Noised" - Probably akin to G5316 through the idea of disclosure; a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by implication an address (for any purpose), saying or language: - noise, sound, voice.

Whatever was "noised abroad" was loud enough to cause a multitude outside of the upper room to come together and observe what was going on. Either the upper room was big enough to hold all 120 + the multitude or they spilled outside of the upper room.

After Peter preached it said that the same day were added 3000 souls - that's a lot of people. However many people were in the original multitude that heard Peter's preaching and gladly rec'd his word and were baptized, it lead to 3,000 being added to the church in one day.

Believe what you want to, but I will not hinder or mock at someone who is shouting unto the Lord in a known tongue or in an unknown tongue, in control of their own tongue, or willing submitting their tongue to the Spirit of God for the Spirit of God to do with it whatever He wishes.

Me personally, I couldn't point to another apostolic in a church service and say - that's not God, but rather they are possessed and being involuntarily controlled by a devil; but perhaps someone else sees or knows something that I don't.

My personal opinion is that someone who is filled with the Spirit of God and has not left themselves swept, garnished, but EMPTY cannot be unwillingly and unknowingly possessed with a devil without committing sin; and even then I believe in a space given to repent first.

[Rev]

Well I'm not aware of the whole "Pentecostal DRUNK deception" - don't know what that is.

What I do know is this:

- the observers thought that the 120 were drunk
- it was noised abroad
- they were not drunk as THEY SUPPOSED

I will agree that there is no scripture that says they were shouting, but it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. Acts 8 doesn't say they spoke in tongues, but most if not all apostolics believe that they did - it just wasn't written.

Strong's - "Noised" - Probably akin to G5316 through the idea of disclosure; a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by implication an address (for any purpose), saying or language: - noise, sound, voice.

Whatever was "noised abroad" was loud enough to cause a multitude outside of the upper room to come together and observe what was going on. Either the upper room was big enough to hold all 120 + the multitude or they spilled outside of the upper room.

After Peter preached it said that the same day were added 3000 souls - that's a lot of people. However many people were in the original multitude that heard Peter's preaching and gladly rec'd his word and were baptized, it lead to 3,000 being added to the church in one day.

Believe what you want to, but I will not hinder or mock at someone who is shouting unto the Lord in a known tongue or in an unknown tongue, in control of their own tongue, or willing submitting their tongue to the Spirit of God for the Spirit of God to do with it whatever He wishes.

Me personally, I couldn't point to another apostolic in a church service and say - that's not God, but rather they are possessed and being involuntarily controlled by a devil; but perhaps someone else sees or knows something that I don't.

My personal opinion is that someone who is filled with the Spirit of God and has not left themselves swept, garnished, but EMPTY cannot be unwillingly and unknowingly possessed with a devil without committing sin.

(2Sa 6:14) And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

(Psa 149:3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

(Ps 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

(Ecc 3:4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

[Rev]

(2Sa 6:14) And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

(Psa 149:3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

(Ps 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

(Ecc 3:4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

(Lu 6:23) Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

[Felicity]

(2Sa 6:14) And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

(Psa 149:3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

(Ps 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

(Ecc 3:4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

:dancing

[Brad Murphy]

D. It is fine for people who wish to express their emotions that way, but should not be required or expected of others.

[Whole Hearted]

I hope and praying that Sunday night we have shouting, dancing, isle running, leaping, tongue talking church.

[Dr. Vaughn]

(2Sa 6:14) And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

(Psa 149:3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

(Ps 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

(Ecc 3:4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

Do you not understand the difference between the dancing of scriptures and the shouting of Pentecostals?

Go to Jerusalem, you will see... you would actually not be impressed probably... would remind you NOTHING of SHOUTING

[Dr. Vaughn]

I hope and praying that Sunday night we have shouting, dancing, isle running, leaping, tongue talking church.

That is sooooooooo sad.... and if your lucky the preacher wont preach,. no one will be corrected or matured in their walk with God and everyone can go to Chili's afterwards..... you said volumes

[Steve Epley]

Do you not understand the difference between the dancing of scriptures and the shouting of Pentecostals?

Go to Jerusalem, you will see... you would actually not be impressed probably... would remind you NOTHING of SHOUTING

I have been told by friends who have visited Orthodox Jewish services and they told me they danced and rolled in the floor and were very franic in their worship. They said it reminded them of Pentecostal services.

[Dr. Vaughn]

I have been told by friends who have visited Orthodox Jewish services and they told me they danced and rolled in the floor and were very franic in their worship. They said it reminded them of Pentecostal services.

Bro. Epley, we go twice a year and have never seen anything like you desribed.. their dances are very choreographed.. very drama oriented.... yes it is very intense such as Davids but it is nothing like we see in Pentecost.. they are in control of their faculties at all times

[Steve Epley]

Bro. Epley, we go twice a year and have never seen anything like you desribed.. their dances are very choreographed.. very drama oriented.... yes it is very intense such as Davids but it is nothing like we see in Pentecost.. they are in control of their faculties at all times

This was in South Florida among the Hasid sect.

[stmatthew]

Weve dealt with the whole "Drunk" thing a million times... had NOTHING to do with how they were acting or their worship.. nothing had all.. only had to do with their ability to speak in foreign languages

I was gonna read the rest of the thread, but figured I would stop here first.



I had a few Mexicans come into the store today, and they were speaking Spanish to each other. One of them walks up and speaks to me in very plain, unaccented English. My first reaction, according to the good doctor, would be, "THIS GUY IS DRUNK!".

I will finish the thread now. :D

[Hoovie]

I was gonna read the rest of the thread, but figured I would stop here first.



I had a few Mexicans come into the store today, and they were speaking Spanish to each other. One of them walks up and speaks to me in very plain, unaccented English. My first reaction, according to the good doctor, would be, "THIS GUY IS DRUNK!".

I will finish the thread now. :D

No, but him and his buddies knew a few dozon languages, you might say,

"Wow! How did you guys learn so many languages? Whatever this new stuff is you are drinking... give me some of that!"

[Dr. Vaughn]

No, but him and his buddies knew a few dozon languages, you might say,

"Wow! How did you guys learn so many languages? Whatever this new stuff is you are drinking... give me some of that!"

Stephen, my point exactly... and the language barrier was much greater in those times..... thats why when the Sorcerer heard them breaking this barrier he wanted to buy this gift so he could amaze people and thus keep his business profitable.....

these guys just dont get it

[Steve Epley]

Stephen, my point exactly... and the language barrier was much greater in those times..... thats why when the Sorcerer heard them breaking this barrier he wanted to buy this gift so he could amaze people and thus keep his business profitable.....

these guys just dont get it

Sure don't.

[Dr. Vaughn]

I was gonna read the rest of the thread, but figured I would stop here first.



I had a few Mexicans come into the store today, and they were speaking Spanish to each other. One of them walks up and speaks to me in very plain, unaccented English. My first reaction, according to the good doctor, would be, "THIS GUY IS DRUNK!".

I will finish the thread now. :D

Dear friend,, lets take it a bit further to its true conclusion.... your best friend walked into the store.. he is chinese... you know he knows not ONE WORD of English and he walks in and says "Hey St. Matthew, what up man,,, beautiful morning isn't it" you stand there OK WHAT IS THIS DUDE ON?? HOW DID HE DO THAT..... you would be marvelled and amazed and in a lack of understanding you might say anything such as ...... dude.. how did you do that... man what are you smoking....

[Steve Epley]

Let me see if I understand? The multitude hearing and seeing them supposed they were drunk on new wine because folks drunk on new wine speak other languages? Evidently they appeared drunk to the onlookers that were present however you NOT being there understand better than those who were there?
I understand I guess well maybe not?:crazy

[Praxeas]

No, but him and his buddies knew a few dozon languages, you might say,

"Wow! How did you guys learn so many languages? Whatever this new stuff is you are drinking... give me some of that!"

Would you say "Wow, these guys are drunk"? Not me

[Dr. Vaughn]

Let me see if I understand? The multitude hearing and seeing them supposed they were drunk on new wine because folks drunk on new wine speak other languages? Evidently they appeared drunk to the onlookers that were present however you NOT being there understand better than those who were there?
I understand I guess well maybe not?:crazy

Elder I simply presented the scriptures in Chronological order.... and pointed out that the entire question about being drunk had nothing to do with worship it was strictly concerning tongues....

[stmatthew]

No, but him and his buddies knew a few dozon languages, you might say,

"Wow! How did you guys learn so many languages? Whatever this new stuff is you are drinking... give me some of that!"

How would I know Simon was speaking in German, and Peter was speaking in Italian, unless I understood both languages.

I am simply putting myself in the place of these folks that were there. If I saw a foreigner speaking in my native language, I would not think he was drunk. That is ridiculous. The only way I would consider someone drunk is by their actions (i.e. staggering, slurred speech, falling down).

Do I think they were flip flopping around? Probably not. But there is no doubt in my mind that the crowd supposed they were drunk. And just speaking in a native language in a city that had upwards of a million folks present would not even touch the suspicion radar. No, they thought they were drunk because there was an action taking place in the newly filled believers that caused them to believe they were drunk.

[Dr. Vaughn]

I bet StMark and some of you guys would consider this church dead..... when I see the total opposite

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhPU6V_HzXo&feature=related

[Steve Epley]

Elder I simply presented the scriptures in Chronological order.... and pointed out that the entire question about being drunk had nothing to do with worship it was strictly concerning tongues....

Sorry NO prize. I understood what you said but it was wrong. You claim we base our demonstative worship on assumption and I declare you base you argument on asummptions having to be read INTO the text. The text itself is clear. The onlookers thought they were drunk on new wine not linquists but drunkards. Again Peter said it was BOTH seen and heard v.33.

[stmatthew]

Dear friend,, lets take it a bit further to its true conclusion.... your best friend walked into the store.. he is chinese... you know he knows not ONE WORD of English and he walks in and says "Hey St. Matthew, what up man,,, beautiful morning isn't it" you stand there OK WHAT IS THIS DUDE ON?? HOW DID HE DO THAT..... you would be marvelled and amazed and in a lack of understanding you might say anything such as ...... dude.. how did you do that... man what are you smoking....

So now I am to surmise that in a group of over a million that descended into Jerusalem that all these folks KNEW that Peter and the 120 did not know their particular dialect?? You are comparing apples to watermelons here.

1. You have stated that the Chinese man IS MY BEST FRIEND. The Jews that were at Jerusalem for the Feast did not know the 120 from ADAM. They would not be amazed to here someone speaking in their language because any Jew from their specific land worth his salt would have made the journey to Jerusalem.


It was not that they heard them speaking in their own language. it was WHAT THEY WERE SPEAKING that caused the issue.

[Dr. Vaughn]

How would I know Simon was speaking in German, and Peter was speaking in Italian, unless I understood both languages.

I am simply putting myself in the place of these folks that were there. If I saw a foreigner speaking in my native language, I would not think he was drunk. That is ridiculous. The only way I would consider someone drunk is by their actions (i.e. staggering, slurred speech, falling down).

Do I think they were flip flopping around? Probably not. But there is no doubt in my mind that the crowd supposed they were drunk. And just speaking in a native language in a city that had upwards of a million folks present would not even touch the suspicion radar. No, they thought they were drunk because there was an action taking place in the newly filled believers that caused them to believe they were drunk.

but you fail to understand,,, the onlookers KNEW these folks could not speak their language... watch the verse carfefully

Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

THEY KNEW the Galilaeans could not speak their languages,, the Galiaeans were unlearned people......

I beg you go back to the 2nd chapter of Acts and TELL ME WHAT THEY WAS AMAZED ABOUT... tell me why they asked in they were drunk..... please

[Steve Epley]

I bet StMark and some of you guys would consider this church dead..... when I see the total opposite

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhPU6V_HzXo&feature=related

The guy leading is toooooooooooooo emotional.:whistle I certainly would NOT think that was dead. Worship has many moods.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Sorry NO prize. I understood what you said but it was wrong. You claim we base our demonstative worship on assumption and I declare you base you argument on asummptions having to be read INTO the text. The text itself is clear. The onlookers thought they were drunk on new wine not linquists but drunkards. Again Peter said it was BOTH seen and heard v.33.


Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

They marvelled not at their worship Elder,, they marvelled at Galilaens speaking in their own languages which they KNEW the Galileans did not know.. and at this amazement,, NOTHING MORE ELDER,, they asked.. HOW ARE THEY DOING THIS.. is this some sort of NEW WINE giving them this ability?

[Steve Epley]

Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

They marvelled not at their worship Elder,, they marvelled at Galilaens speaking in their own languages which they KNEW the Galileans did not know.. and at this amazement,, NOTHING MORE ELDER,, they asked.. HOW ARE THEY DOING THIS.. is this some sort of NEW WINE giving them this ability?

YOU are saying nothing more the text is NOT saying that. Folks were SEEING something also. v.33

[Hoovie]

How would I know Simon was speaking in German, and Peter was speaking in Italian, unless I understood both languages.

I am simply putting myself in the place of these folks that were there. If I saw a foreigner speaking in my native language, I would not think he was drunk. That is ridiculous. The only way I would consider someone drunk is by their actions (i.e. staggering, slurred speech, falling down).

Do I think they were flip flopping around? Probably not. But there is no doubt in my mind that the crowd supposed they were drunk. And just speaking in a native language in a city that had upwards of a million folks present would not even touch the suspicion radar. No, they thought they were drunk because there was an action taking place in the newly filled believers that caused them to believe they were drunk.

Guess that is my point. I have no reason to think they were "flipping out".

I AM NOT saying they were not demonstrative - I am sure they were praying out loud and actively praising and worshipping God.

[Dr. Vaughn]

The guy leading is toooooooooooooo emotional.:whistle I certainly would NOT think that was dead. Worship has many moods.

Actually about half way through this video,, the sweetest presence of the Lord filled my office... it brought such an anointing that tears came to my eyes... these people are so precious

[Dr. Vaughn]

So now I am to surmise that in a group of over a million that descended into Jerusalem that all these folks KNEW that Peter and the 120 did not know their particular dialect?? You are comparing apples to watermelons here.

1. You have stated that the Chinese man IS MY BEST FRIEND. The Jews that were at Jerusalem for the Feast did not know the 120 from ADAM. They would not be amazed to here someone speaking in their language because any Jew from their specific land worth his salt would have made the journey to Jerusalem.


It was not that they heard them speaking in their own language. it was WHAT THEY WERE SPEAKING that caused the issue.

Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Although they didnt know them personally,, they knew their race,, and they KNEW the unlearned Galilaens did not know all of these languages

[stmatthew]

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

The issue is spoken of at the end of the text.

[Dr. Vaughn]

all the house where they were sitting... doesnt sound too Pentecostal to me

[Hoovie]

YOU are saying nothing more the text is NOT saying that. Folks were SEEING something also. v.33

That's easy. They SAW those who were speaking were Galileans.

They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking (H)Galileans?

8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?

Also they possibly SAW the fire that fell on each of them...

They witnessed it visually and audibly.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

The issue is spoken of at the end of the text.

Again,, I will try ...... The purpose of Pentecost was REACHING THE NATIONS.. beginning at JERUSALEM..... why did God send these 120 the ability to break the language barrier? So they could sit around and talk to each other.. no so they could go among the people and tell them the WONDERFUL WORKS OF GOD in other languages..... not shouting and screaming.. simply TELLING the onlookers about Jesus.. the wonderful work of God....... still sounds nothing like a Pentecostal Church to me

[Dr. Vaughn]

That's easy. They SAW those who were speaking were Galileans.

They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking (H)Galileans?

8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?

Also they possibly SAW the fire that fell on each of them...

They witnessed it visually and audibly.

Stephen,, that is an excellent point I have never considered... it is very possible that this was a visible fire that sat upon them.. that would definitly cause it to be noised abroad

[Hoovie]

Stephen,, that is an excellent point I have never considered... it is very possible that this was a visible fire that sat upon them.. that would definitly cause it to be noised abroad

I never thought it was not visible - like I think the mighty rushing wind was audible ... but was it still there when the crowd arrived? I don't know.

[Dr. Vaughn]

I never thought it was not visible - like I think the mighty rushing wind was audible ... but was it still there when the crowd arrived? I don't know.

Whether it was still there are not... isnt important.. the crowds had to have seen it when it fell

[grace_seeker]

Well, if people thought that those Crazy people were drunk then why should we remove all doubt? Bring on the shouting! :)

[Rev]

Whether it was still there are not... isnt important.. the crowds had to have seen it when it fell

Where is the scripture for what you have said.

You better hope that this Holy Ghost shouting is not of God. Because if it is..


(Mar 3:29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

[Dr. Vaughn]

Where is the scripture for what you have said.

You better hope that this Holy Ghost shouting is not of God. Because if it is..


(Mar 3:29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Oh yes Rev.. we dare not touch the golden calf.. I'm sorry I thought the Holy Ghost was love, joy & peace.. .didnt know it was shouting

[Dr. Vaughn]

Someone care to tell me how this flesh show glorifies God.. a PENTECOSTAL CHURCH

Welcome to Pentecost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHcqgB1xoH8&feature=related

[Dr. Vaughn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29phZwBIdS4&NR=1

My GOSH this is soooo sad that this is the immaturity the church has come to

[Dr. Vaughn]

So more of that Day of Pentecost examples???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cuQozJ2WQ&feature=related

[Rev]

Oh yes Rev.. we dare not touch the golden calf.. I'm sorry I thought the Holy Ghost was love, joy & peace.. .didnt know it was shouting

Why are you trying to discuss something of which you obviously know nothing?

Do you baptize according to Acts 2:38?

If you don't and can't understand the bible on that subject what makes you think you understand the rest of the bible?

[StMark]

Folks,

There are people here who are bent on Tearing down
and degrading the Apostolic faith and worship.

If you say anything about their DOCTRINE They are
hurt though.

NO NAMES

[Rev]

Oh yes Rev.. we dare not touch the golden calf.. I'm sorry I thought the Holy Ghost was love, joy & peace.. .didnt know it was shouting

You might know a little about the word but do you have this?

(I Co 4:19) But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
(I Co 4:20) For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
(I Co 4:21) What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?


(Act 1:8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

(Act 3:12) And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Do you have the power of God working through you or do you just have a little knowledge of the letter of the word?

[Dr. Vaughn]

You might know a little about the word but do you have this?

(I Co 4:19) But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
(I Co 4:20) For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
(I Co 4:21) What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?


(Act 1:8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

(Act 3:12) And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Do you have the power of God working through you or do you just have a little knowledge of the letter of the word?

Since I was 12 years old,, anything else?

[Rev]

Oh yes Rev.. we dare not touch the golden calf.. I'm sorry I thought the Holy Ghost was love, joy & peace.. .didnt know it was shouting

By the way, if you really understood (Acts 1:8) you might also understand worshipping God in spirit and in truth!

[Rev]

Since I was 12 years old,, anything else?

I think I will just doubt that statement!

[Dr. Vaughn]

By the way, if you really understood (Acts 1:8) you might also understand worshipping God in spirit and in truth!

I love it... you dont even use the orignal wording for Acts 1:8 and then you tell me.. :if I understood Acts 1:8

Why dont you try to understand it.. the word POWER is actuallly not even in that verse.. it should be ABILITY

You Pentecostals love the word POWER but in Acts 1:8.. ye shall receive ABILITY FROM ON HIGH>...now go try and read it in the original... sounds totally different when you do and a lot less Pentecostal

[Rico]

Where is the scripture for what you have said.

You better hope that this Holy Ghost shouting is not of God. Because if it is..


(Mar 3:29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

He's already compared pentecostals to hogs and said shouting was like lusting. May as well go the rest of the way and say we have a devil.

[B_Kendrick]

He's already compared pentecostals to hogs and said shouting was like lusting. May as well go the rest of the way and say we have a devil.

It's also hard to argue with somebody about the Bible when they twist scripture and try to dissect so far to where it doesn't make sense. Also when they feel like they know more than an elder...

And saying that some scripture should say something other than what is written!!! Not power, but ability? Oh, i apologize on behalf of the Peter! He really should have know better...

[Dr. Vaughn]

It's also hard to argue with somebody about the Bible when they twist scripture and try to dissect so far to where it doesn't make sense. Also when they feel like they know more than an elder...

And saying that some scripture should say something other than what is written!!! Not power, but ability? Oh, i apologize on behalf of the Peter! He really should have know better...

B Kendrick... one only emarasses themselves when they deny the original meaning of a word....

So I will make it plain for you.. the word used in the Bible is ABILITY... you shall receive ABILITY from on High,, the English Translators used the word Power....

But in its ORIGINAL - You shall received Ability from on high

[stmatthew]

B Kendrick... one only emarasses themselves when they deny the original meaning of a word....

So I will make it plain for you.. the word used in the Bible is ABILITY... you shall receive ABILITY from on High,, the English Translators used the word Power....

But in its ORIGINAL - You shall received Ability from on high



Yes, it is rather embarrassing for someone to try and take away part of the definition of a word. The word "POWER" in this verse encompasses the "force" necessary, AND the "ability" to perform.




dynamis (dü'-nä-mēs)


1) strength power, ability

a) inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth

b) power for performing miracles

c) moral power and excellence of soul

d) the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth

e) power and resources arising from numbers

f) power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces, hosts



The word "Virtue" in the following is also the same Greek word used for "Power"

Mar 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

I would thing that a "force" and not just an ability, went out of Jesus when the woman was healed. But that is just me.



Again, the word "Strengthened" in the verse below is the same Greek word used for "Power".

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

...to be "abilitied" with might by his Spirit in the inner man???? I don't think so.

[Dr. Vaughn]

When asking Jesus how they would reach the nations as he commanded them..... how would they be able to speak the languages of the world....

Go and tarry at Jerusalem until the ability from on high ..... the ability to do what? OBEY HIS COMMISSION he had just given unto them.. to reach the nations.. they didnt need ROCKET POWER for that.. they needed a divine ability....

It's rather simple

[stmatthew]

When asking Jesus how they would reach the nations as he commanded them..... how would they be able to speak the languages of the world....

Go and tarry at Jerusalem until the ability from on high ..... the ability to do what? OBEY HIS COMMISSION he had just given unto them.. to reach the nations.. they didnt need ROCKET POWER for that.. they needed a divine ability....

It's rather simple



It is rather simple. I gave the Greek definition for the word used, and you rejected it for your own interpretation. Carry on.

[Steve Epley]

DV has thinking has been colored by Branhamism that is the problem and to the rest it is odd when you shout or whatever you call it then it is a spiritual experience but when anyone else does it then it becomes an emotional frenzy.

[Whole Hearted]

That is sooooooooo sad.... and if your lucky the preacher wont preach,. no one will be corrected or matured in their walk with God and everyone can go to Chili's afterwards..... you said volumes

What is sad is that one doesn't want a move of the Holy Ghost.

I am the preacher/pastor and I want a move of God. We will still have preaching after the worship, but it no the Holy Ghost can do more in a few minutes that a man can do in a life time.

I think that if one is yielding to the Holy Ghost they will grow. the letter killeth but the Spirit maketh alive.


And by the way we have no Chili's here. the closest place to eat is a DQ 12 miles away.

I am praying for a real move of the Holy Ghost tonight. You can go ahead and have all the dead, dry so called church that you want to, but I want something that is alive.

[Michael Phelps]

What is sad is that one doesn't want a move of the Holy Ghost.

I am the preacher/pastor and I want a move of God. We will still have preaching after the worship, but it no the Holy Ghost can do more in a few minutes that a man can do in a life time.

I think that if one is yielding to the Holy Ghost they will grow. the letter killeth but the Spirit maketh alive.


And by the way we have no Chili's here. the closest place to eat is a DQ 12 miles away.

I am praying for a real move of the Holy Ghost tonight. You can go ahead and have all the dead, dry so called church that you want to, but I want something that is alive.

I never thought I would say this, but I agree with WH on this point - the Holy Ghost can do more in a minute than we can do in a lifetime.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Oh yeah guys.. there you go... SHOUTING & RUNNING THE ISLES can do more for people than the WORD OF GOD... gotta love it

[rgcraig]

Oh yeah guys.. there you go... SHOUTING & RUNNING THE ISLES can do more for people than the WORD OF GOD... gotta love it
Oh please......

[Michael Phelps]

Oh yeah guys.. there you go... SHOUTING & RUNNING THE ISLES can do more for people than the WORD OF GOD... gotta love it

Did I say that?

Read my post again.

[Kay B]

I never thought I would say this, but I agree with WH on this point - the Holy Ghost can do more in a minute than we can do in a lifetime.

I agree with WH also except for somewhere to eat after services. :D
Only one place here on the island on Sunday and it is way spendy $$$$. has to be a SPECIAL occasion to eat out. lol :tease

[Dr. Vaughn]

Oh please......

Did you have a point?

[Dr. Vaughn]

Did I say that?

Read my post again.

Did you not say that? when you agreed with a Poster that would rather see people doing HUckaJucks rather than being matured in the Word... because 5 minutes of mayhem and flesh can do more than the Preaching of the Word... again.. welcome to Pentecost

[mizpeh]

hallejuiah!

[Whole Hearted]

I'd rather have 5 minutes of shouting and worship to God than two hours of false doctrine such as the serpent seed doctrine.

[rgcraig]

Oh yeah guys.. there you go... SHOUTING & RUNNING THE ISLES can do more for people than the WORD OF GOD... gotta love it

Oh please......

Did you have a point?

Yes, that your point was silly.

No one said shouting and running the aisle can do more for people than the Word of God. I believe what was said was I never thought I would say this, but I agree with WH on this point - the Holy Ghost can do more in a minute than we can do in a lifetime.

[Steve Epley]

I'd rather have 5 minutes of shouting and worship to God than two hours of false doctrine such as the serpent seed doctrine.

Or 2 hours of out of order foolishness than 2 minutes of Branham doctrine.

[Whole Hearted]

Or 2 hours of out of order foolishness than 2 minutes of Branham doctrine.

Amen elder

[Michael Phelps]

Did you not say that? when you agreed with a Poster that would rather see people doing HUckaJucks rather than being matured in the Word... because 5 minutes of mayhem and flesh can do more than the Preaching of the Word... again.. welcome to Pentecost

Apparently your reading skills are being hampered a bit today, so I'll refresh your memory - I said the Holy Ghost can do more in 5 minutes than men can in a lifetime.

Now, if you want to get up there and craft your words the way you do here, so that you are the only authority, and if you want to quench the moving of the Spirit, be my guest, but I'd much rather let God move on people, and if that moves them to dance - it's scriptural.

If it moves them to twirl about while they worship - it's scriptural.

If it moves them to have a Holy Ghost fit - it's scriptural.

Now, please don't ask me to give you the scriptures again, I've already posted the Hebrew words in this thread.

[Michael Phelps]

Or 2 hours of out of order foolishness than 2 minutes of Branham doctrine.

Man, can it be??????

I'm agreeing with WholeHearted AND Elder Epley??????????

I may be on the verge of crossing over to the other side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:dance

[Steve Epley]

Man, can it be??????

I'm agreeing with WholeHearted AND Elder Epley??????????

I may be on the verge of crossing over to the other side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:dance

God is working but who will let?????????????????????:tease

[Michael Phelps]

God is working but who will let?????????????????????:tease

Well, according to Dr. Vaughn, I don't have a choice!:dance

[Steve Epley]

Well, according to Dr. Vaughn, I don't have a choice!:dance

That is the truth. I have a brother-in-law who is still in that mess tell me I am afraid you have blasphemed the H.G. because I called Branham a false prophet. I told him I was predestined to do it so I could not help it. He looked confused(and he was).
All the folks running and dancing were foreordained to do it thus GOD MADE them do it. Thus it has to be the will of God if He made them do it.:tease

[Michael Phelps]

That is the truth. I have a brother-in-law who is still in that mess tell me I am afraid you have blasphemed the H.G. because I called Branham a false prophet. I told him I was predestined to do it so I could not help it. He looked confused(and he was).
All the folks running and dancing were foreordained to do it thus GOD MADE them do it. Thus it has to be the will of God if He made them do it.:tease

Hahahaha, good one!:ursofunny

Reminds me of the story of a Rev. Dabney, who was a chaplain in the Civil War, if memory serves. I think he was on the Confederate side, but he was one who taught the theory of predestination quite staunchly.

He would tell his soldiers, "When you get into the heat of the battle, don't run and hide, because if you are predestined to live that day, a bullet can't find you, and if you are predestined to die, a bullet can't miss you, no matter where you hide!"

Well, as luck would have it, one day HE was caught in a fire fight, and the troops looked up in time to see him hotfooting it to a huge tree to take cover.

Well, after the fight was over, and the smoke had cleared, the understandably confused soldiers cornered him and demanded an explanation! "Rev Dabney, you always tell us not to run and hide, but we saw you running to hide behind that huge oak tree! What gives?"

He looked at them and said, "Fellows, you obviously don't understand all the theories and principles of predestination - you see, I was predestined to run behind that tree!"

[B_Kendrick]

DV has thinking has been colored by Branhamism that is the problem and to the rest it is odd when you shout or whatever you call it then it is a spiritual experience but when anyone else does it then it becomes an emotional frenzy.

Absolutely Elder!

[B_Kendrick]

I never thought I would say this, but I agree with WH on this point - the Holy Ghost can do more in a minute than we can do in a lifetime.

Hey, anytime where I can agree with MP and Prax, you know that its getting bad! HA HA! J/K guys! :friend

[B_Kendrick]

Oh yeah guys.. there you go... SHOUTING & RUNNING THE ISLES can do more for people than the WORD OF GOD... gotta love it

I think they said the Holy Ghost! Oh wait a minute, are you saying that is the Holy Ghost?

[B_Kendrick]

I'd rather have 5 minutes of shouting and worship to God than two hours of false doctrine such as the serpent seed doctrine.

WWWHOOOAAA!!! That was powerful...

[B_Kendrick]

God is working but who will let?????????????????????:tease

Ok, Ok! I'm converted! I might actually run the ailes tonight! Or maybe do the huck a buck! WHOO!

[B_Kendrick]

That is the truth. I have a brother-in-law who is still in that mess tell me I am afraid you have blasphemed the H.G. because I called Branham a false prophet. I told him I was predestined to do it so I could not help it. He looked confused(and he was).
All the folks running and dancing were foreordained to do it thus GOD MADE them do it. Thus it has to be the will of God if He made them do it.:tease

I need to read a little bit about this fellow, but it sounds like to like it's going against Galations 1:8-9! I think DV needs to just go to church and let the word of God talk to his spirit! It'll reveal itself because I believe the Bible says that grace is a teacher! So sooner or later it will come!

[Dr. Vaughn]

Yes, that your point was silly.

No one said shouting and running the aisle can do more for people than the Word of God. I believe what was said was

For context sake... go back and look at what their calling a move of the Holy Ghost.. it is in quotes.... ISLE RUNNING>> SHOUTING

[Rev]

Or 2 hours of out of order foolishness than 2 minutes of Branham doctrine.

Ouch Ouch Ouch

[Dr. Vaughn]

Or 2 hours of out of order foolishness than 2 minutes of Branham doctrine.

Some folks would say "or 2 minutes of Pentecostal Doctrine"

You see Elder, to each is own

[Dr. Vaughn]

Apparently your reading skills are being hampered a bit today, so I'll refresh your memory - I said the Holy Ghost can do more in 5 minutes than men can in a lifetime.

Now, if you want to get up there and craft your words the way you do here, so that you are the only authority, and if you want to quench the moving of the Spirit, be my guest, but I'd much rather let God move on people, and if that moves them to dance - it's scriptural.

If it moves them to twirl about while they worship - it's scriptural.

If it moves them to have a Holy Ghost fit - it's scriptural.

Now, please don't ask me to give you the scriptures again, I've already posted the Hebrew words in this thread.

A Holy Ghost fit is scriptural.. interesting... of course I won't ask for the scriptures because I know its impossible to provide it.. because having a HOLY GHOST FIT doesnt exist in the scriptures

[Dr. Vaughn]

That is the truth. I have a brother-in-law who is still in that mess tell me I am afraid you have blasphemed the H.G. because I called Branham a false prophet. I told him I was predestined to do it so I could not help it. He looked confused(and he was).
All the folks running and dancing were foreordained to do it thus GOD MADE them do it. Thus it has to be the will of God if He made them do it.:tease

your exactly.. some vessels are made for destruction

[Michael Phelps]

A Holy Ghost fit is scriptural.. interesting... of course I won't ask for the scriptures because I know its impossible to provide it.. because having a HOLY GHOST FIT doesnt exist in the scriptures

Demonstrative praise, where one twirls like a helicopter, dances, claps their hands, and shouts with a loud voice IS in the scripture, my insensate friend.....all one has to do is look.

And, I've even posted some of the words for you in this thread. See if you can find them!

[Dr. Vaughn]

Demonstrative praise, where one twirls like a helicopter, dances, claps their hands, and shouts with a loud voice IS in the scripture, my insensate friend.....all one has to do is look.

And, I've even posted some of the words for you in this thread. See if you can find them!

Shout with a loud voice all you want.. its scriptural of course..... but dont ever have a fit.. where your out of control of your own Body and blame such fleshim on the gentleman, the Holy Spirit

[Michael Phelps]

Shout with a loud voice all you want.. its scriptural of course..... but dont ever have a fit.. where your out of control of your own Body and blame such fleshim on the gentleman, the Holy Spirit

It's scriptural to dance and shout, my friend. Argue all you want, but you're arguing against scripture.

I rest my case.

[Dr. Vaughn]

It's scriptural to dance and shout, my friend. Argue all you want, but you're arguing against scripture.

I rest my case.

Would you mind describing the word shout for me? I realize one version of shouting is in the scriptures... VOCAL PRAISE.... but I'm still lookng for that other one... and I'm looking really hard in the NT for it.... but if you wish to reach to the OT for your scriptural references.. go ahead and grab a few more scriptures.. maybe where its a sin to eat pork... or a few others.. so lets bring this closer to home.. in our GUIDE for church doctrine and order.. the NT... can you show any instances of church services with out of control conditions? I CAN - the Corinthian church.. and it angered Paul so much they way.. each one wanted to be seen and everyone was speaking in tongues and the place was wild.. he REBUKED THEM

Wonder what he would do at your church tonight?

[Michael Phelps]

Would you mind describing the word shout for me? I realize one version of shouting is in the scriptures... VOCAL PRAISE.... but I'm still lookng for that other one... and I'm looking really hard in the NT for it.... but if you wish to reach to the OT for your scriptural references.. go ahead and grab a few more scriptures.. maybe where its a sin to eat pork... or a few others.. so lets bring this closer to home.. in our GUIDE for church doctrine and order.. the NT... can you show any instances of church services with out of control conditions? I CAN - the Corinthian church.. and it angered Paul so much they way.. each one wanted to be seen and everyone was speaking in tongues and the place was wild.. he REBUKED THEM

Wonder what he would do at your church tonight?

Well, sorry for using the OT, I thought you espoused the OT doctrinal backup method, based on your example of Hosea and Gomer, and quite a few other OT references you've used to back up your viewpoints.

Or, is that just when it's convenient for your theology?

[rgcraig]

For context sake... go back and look at what their calling a move of the Holy Ghost.. it is in quotes.... ISLE RUNNING>> SHOUTING

Dr., I belive that would be aisle running.

[Rev]

Would you mind describing the word shout for me? I realize one version of shouting is in the scriptures... VOCAL PRAISE.... but I'm still lookng for that other one... and I'm looking really hard in the NT for it.... but if you wish to reach to the OT for your scriptural references.. go ahead and grab a few more scriptures.. maybe where its a sin to eat pork... or a few others.. so lets bring this closer to home.. in our GUIDE for church doctrine and order.. the NT... can you show any instances of church services with out of control conditions? I CAN - the Corinthian church.. and it angered Paul so much they way.. each one wanted to be seen and everyone was speaking in tongues and the place was wild.. he REBUKED THEM

Wonder what he would do at your church tonight?

You do take your liberty with words don't you! Seems rather wild to me!

[Michael Phelps]

You do take your liberty with words don't you! Seems rather wild to me!

Lol, I'm more interested in finding out when you DO use the OT for precedence, and when you DON'T.

I"m confused.

[Rev]

Would you mind describing the word shout for me? I realize one version of shouting is in the scriptures... VOCAL PRAISE.... but I'm still lookng for that other one... and I'm looking really hard in the NT for it.... but if you wish to reach to the OT for your scriptural references.. go ahead and grab a few more scriptures.. maybe where its a sin to eat pork... or a few others.. so lets bring this closer to home.. in our GUIDE for church doctrine and order.. the NT... can you show any instances of church services with out of control conditions? I CAN - the Corinthian church.. and it angered Paul so much they way.. each one wanted to be seen and everyone was speaking in tongues and the place was wild.. he REBUKED THEM

Wonder what he would do at your church tonight?


(1Co 14:18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

That's what he would do, and more!

[Dr. Vaughn]

Dr., I belive that would be aisle running.

Dont go there... I was in a hurry.... trust

[B_Kendrick]

Would you mind describing the word shout for me? I realize one version of shouting is in the scriptures... VOCAL PRAISE.... but I'm still lookng for that other one... and I'm looking really hard in the NT for it.... but if you wish to reach to the OT for your scriptural references.. go ahead and grab a few more scriptures.. maybe where its a sin to eat pork... or a few others.. so lets bring this closer to home.. in our GUIDE for church doctrine and order.. the NT... can you show any instances of church services with out of control conditions? I CAN - the Corinthian church.. and it angered Paul so much they way.. each one wanted to be seen and everyone was speaking in tongues and the place was wild.. he REBUKED THEM

Wonder what he would do at your church tonight?

All things should be done in decency and in order! But you really just hit the mark there for us doc, when he said that they wanted to be seen by everyone! What about those who are doing it for God? Not trying to do some cute little dance! And why don't you use the OT as a part of your doctrine? Jesus did! And BTW, will He even BE at your church tonight?

[Rev]

Would you mind describing the word shout for me? I realize one version of shouting is in the scriptures... VOCAL PRAISE.... but I'm still lookng for that other one... and I'm looking really hard in the NT for it.... but if you wish to reach to the OT for your scriptural references.. go ahead and grab a few more scriptures.. maybe where its a sin to eat pork... or a few others.. so lets bring this closer to home.. in our GUIDE for church doctrine and order.. the NT... can you show any instances of church services with out of control conditions? I CAN - the Corinthian church.. and it angered Paul so much they way.. each one wanted to be seen and everyone was speaking in tongues and the place was wild.. he REBUKED THEM

Wonder what he would do at your church tonight?


I just figured out what your problem is. You were in a bar one night and just thought you were in a pentecostal service!

[Dr. Vaughn]

Lol, I'm more interested in finding out when you DO use the OT for precedence, and when you DON'T.

I"m confused.

The problem Michael, in debate the OT can be used as the double hoof or more commonly the double wittness... you cannot use it alone for doctrine... for example if there is an OT shadow that is completed in NT it can be referenced...

your example of fit throwing in church has NO NT foundation at all.. for you to reach now to the OT without a double wittness.. is not exegesis but isogesis

[B_Kendrick]

I just figured out what your problem is. You were in a bar one night and just thought you were in a pentecostal service!

No, no, no! They weren't drunk or acting drunk, or something! I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE!!!!! :snapout

[BrotherEastman]

Your joking right... when eludes to a scripture.. he is GIVING SCRIPTURE

Pauls in teaching an out of control church,, explains to them that its time to calm down.., its time to get in order.... lets a visitor would think they had lost their minds,, they way they were acting
The problem is you aren't actually giving scripture that specifically addresses shouting. This is what I'm waiting on, not your opinion about what you think Paul is saying. Did Paul actually address shouting? No he didn't. You keep adressing how Paul was talking about order, this isn't the same doc. Paul did not address the moving of God's Spirit because you cannot govern how God moves.

[Michael Phelps]

The problem Michael, in debate the OT can be used as the double hoof or more commonly the double wittness... you cannot use it alone for doctrine... for example if there is an OT shadow that is completed in NT it can be referenced...

your example of fit throwing in church has NO NT foundation at all.. for you to reach now to the OT without a double wittness.. is not exegesis but isogesis

Ah, but my friend, you keep using the term "fit throwing". I am using the terms "Shouting, dancing, clapping of hands".

All have NT basis.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Ah, but my friend, you keep using the term "fit throwing". I am using the terms "Shouting, dancing, clapping of hands".

All have NT basis.

and that basis is found where?

[Michael Phelps]

and that basis is found where?

Groan........I"m done with this conversation.

Get a Strong's.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Groan........I"m done with this conversation.

Get a Strong's.

Michael,, how can you be done?

You asked me to answer a simple question about my degree....

So what is your answer to the question.. Where in the NT do you have scriptural support for SHOUTING IN CHURCH... HUMPJUMPING.. BUCKSNORTING and ROLLING IN THE FLOOR?

[Michael Phelps]

Michael,, how can you be done?

You asked me to answer a simple question about my degree....

So what is your answer to the question.. Where in the NT do you have scriptural support for SHOUTING IN CHURCH... HUMPJUMPING.. BUCKSNORTING and ROLLING IN THE FLOOR?

DV, those are your words, not mine.

I refuse to even discuss this with you any further, because you constantly misquote me, and tend toward your fatalistic viewpoint.

[Rev]

Michael,, how can you be done?

You asked me to answer a simple question about my degree....

So what is your answer to the question.. Where in the NT do you have scriptural support for SHOUTING IN CHURCH... HUMPJUMPING.. BUCKSNORTING and ROLLING IN THE FLOOR?

You seem to be avoiding the Herodia thread. WHY?

[BrotherEastman]

Some folks would say "or 2 minutes of Pentecostal Doctrine"

You see Elder, to each is own
Problem is, you're not actually speaking Pentecostal doctrine.

[Dr. Vaughn]

DV, those are your words, not mine.

I refuse to even discuss this with you any further, because you constantly misquote me, and tend toward your fatalistic viewpoint.

How am I misquoting you?/ You said SHOUTING and then tried to use a verse thats referring to VERBAL praise... Shouting in Pentecostal churches is PHYSICAL ESTATIC MOVEMENT under some influence that causes one to lose control of their body.. is it not?

If so,, please describe shouting to us
and then provide scriptural support with a double wittness of scripture

[Dr. Vaughn]

Problem is, you're not actually speaking Pentecostal doctrine.

Dear bro,, you missed the whole point

[RandyWayne]

My only other comment on this issue -not directed to anyone in particular, is the issue I had growing up in the church where dancing was forbidden (be it ballroom or square dance in the high school gym) and yet so many ladies in church looked no different than the Haitian voodoo dancer (as seen on National Geographic) the way they danced...... Just to play devils advocate, isn't appearance everything? Isn't this the reason UC's put down "rock music" -because of its similarities to music used in various rituals around the globe?

[BrotherEastman]

Shout with a loud voice all you want.. its scriptural of course..... but dont ever have a fit.. where your out of control of your own Body and blame such fleshim on the gentleman, the Holy Spirit
Again, I must ask the question; When one is yeilded to the Holy Ghost are they out of control? I think not.

[BrotherEastman]

Dr., I belive that would be aisle running.
You've noticed the doc misspellings as well?

[Dr. Vaughn]

My only other comment on this issue -not directed to anyone in particular, is the issue I had growing up in the church where dancing was forbidden (be it ballroom or square dance in the high school gym) and yet so many ladies in church looked no different that Haitian voodoo dancer as seen on National Geographic the way they danced...... Just to play devils advocate, isn't appearance everything? Isn't this the reason UC's put down "rock music" -because of its similarities to music used in various rituals around the globe?

I say PREACH NOW

[Dr. Vaughn]

Again, I must ask the question; When one is yeilded to the Holy Ghost are they out of control? I think not.

Is that what it is brother?

Tell you what brother.. explain to the board why the Holy Spirit,, a gentleman,, doesnt behave himseld unseemly would throw a godly young lady into a frenzy, her losing all composure and femininity...

[BrotherEastman]

Note to reader: According to the doc, we should not shout in church because we are out of order according to what he believes Paul has said to the Corinthian church in his second letter to them; however, if that is the case, then ALL Christianity needs to take another look on how we go to church because early Christianity did not go to a church building. And because these church buildings were not mentioned anywhere in the NT, we are all going to hell in a hand basket. LOL! Doc Vaughn, a church building is mentioned just as many times as shouting in the NT: Should we stop going to a church building for services?

[Michael Phelps]

How am I misquoting you?/ You said SHOUTING and then tried to use a verse thats referring to VERBAL praise... Shouting in Pentecostal churches is PHYSICAL ESTATIC MOVEMENT under some influence that causes one to lose control of their body.. is it not?

If so,, please describe shouting to us
and then provide scriptural support with a double wittness of scripture

Sorry, DV, not biting.

YOU put the words humpjumping, bucksnorting and rolling in the floor into my mouth, those weren't my words.

I do NOT endorse people acting out of order, but I DO endorse people worshipping with voices lifted in praise, clapping of hands, leaping, and expressing the deep joy that they feel in their spirits.

If memory serves, that's how the man who was healed at the Temple Gate entered the temple, so there's your NT backing.

Now, give me some scripture that forbids what I just said.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Note to reader: According to the doc, we should not shout in church because we are out of order according to what he believes Paul has said to the Corinthian church in his second letter to them; however, if that is the case, then ALL Christianity needs to take another look on how we go to church because early Christianity did not go to a church building. And because these church buildings were not mentioned anywhere in the NT, we are all going to hell in a hand basket. LOL! Doc Vaughn, a church building is mentioned just as many times as shouting in the NT: Should we stop going to a church building for services?

Wrong again,, they ministerd daily in the temple AND from house to house..

they went to the temple the first day of the week... my Lord brother

[BrotherEastman]

Is that what it is brother?

Tell you what brother.. explain to the board why the Holy Spirit,, a gentleman,, doesnt behave himseld unseemly would throw a godly young lady into a frenzy, her losing all composure and femininity...
Is that we we are calling the Holy Ghost nowadays, a gentleman? I suppose you have scripture for that one as well?:tease

[Dr. Vaughn]

Sorry, DV, not biting.

YOU put the words humpjumping, bucksnorting and rolling in the floor into my mouth, those weren't my words.

I do NOT endorse people acting out of order, but I DO endorse people worshipping with voices lifted in praise, clapping of hands, leaping, and expressing the deep joy that they feel in their spirits.

If memory serves, that's how the man who was healed at the Temple Gate entered the temple, so there's your NT backing.

Now, give me some scripture that forbids what I just said.

Why would I do that when I perfectly agree with your first statement

I also agree with "lifting your voice in praise" "Clapping of hands" all scriptural,,, all in perfect order.. nothing out of order there.... but why stop there? Why not go as far as the Pentecostal take it....

Slinging arms wildly
Head jerking
Running like mad men....on and on and on.... it has gone beyond the confines of scripture.. it has gone beyond the confines of order

[BrotherEastman]

Sorry, DV, not biting.

YOU put the words humpjumping, bucksnorting and rolling in the floor into my mouth, those weren't my words.

I do NOT endorse people acting out of order, but I DO endorse people worshipping with voices lifted in praise, clapping of hands, leaping, and expressing the deep joy that they feel in their spirits.

If memory serves, that's how the man who was healed at the Temple Gate entered the temple, so there's your NT backing.

Now, give me some scripture that forbids what I just said.
He claims that we do endorse people acting out of order. I think he's giving too many hypothetical situations.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Is that we we are calling the Holy Ghost nowadays, a gentleman? I suppose you have scripture for that one as well?:tease

Your saying he's not gentle?

[Michael Phelps]

Why would I do that when I perfectly agree with your first statement

I also agree with "lifting your voice in praise" "Clapping of hands" all scriptural,,, all in perfect order.. nothing out of order there.... but why stop there? Why not go as far as the Pentecostal take it....

Slinging arms wildly
Head jerking
Running like mad men....on and on and on.... it has gone beyond the confines of scripture.. it has gone beyond the confines of order

Well, I won't argue the point that some people take it too far, but then it's the pastor's responsibility to teach them. I had to do it a few times when I pastored.

However, the converse is to limit it completely, which in my opinion is VERY unscriptural.

There needs to be a mix of "spirit and truth", "worship and preaching".

Someone once said "Truth without spirit makes you DRY up, spirit without truth makes you BLOW up, but truth WITH spirit makes you GROW up"

[BrotherEastman]

You tell me what I'm saying, you seem to be doing a pretty good job of that doc.

[BrotherEastman]

Gotta go doc, love ya!

[StMark]

I'd rather have 5 minutes of shouting and worship to God than two hours of false doctrine such as the serpent seed doctrine.


Co Sign !!




POST OF THE DAY!!!!!



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[RandyWayne]

I the poll question had an option between 1 and 2 that said "Yes, when in order", a whole lot of debate would have ended right then and there. That is what I would have chosen instead of "No".

[Rev]

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Co Sign !!




POST OF THE DAY!!!!!



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Go over to the Herodia thread and see the junk that dr is puting out!

[Rico]

Oh yeah guys.. there you go... SHOUTING & RUNNING THE ISLES can do more for people than the WORD OF GOD... gotta love it


In the words of Carlos Mencia, Dee dee dee!

[Whole Hearted]

Well dooooooccccttttoooorrrrrr you have all the dead, dry, so called church you want to. I guess it is hard to have good church with so much false doctrine being preached.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Well dooooooccccttttoooorrrrrr you have all the dead, dry, so called church you want to. I guess it is hard to have good church with so much false doctrine being preached.

Blessings

[B_Kendrick]

Well, I won't argue the point that some people take it too far, but then it's the pastor's responsibility to teach them. I had to do it a few times when I pastored.

However, the converse is to limit it completely, which in my opinion is VERY unscriptural.

There needs to be a mix of "spirit and truth", "worship and preaching".

Someone once said "Truth without spirit makes you DRY up, spirit without truth makes you BLOW up, but truth WITH spirit makes you GROW up"

BINGO!!! Good point. :whistle

[B_Kendrick]

I the poll question had an option between 1 and 2 that said "Yes, when in order", a whole lot of debate would have ended right then and there. That is what I would have chosen instead of "No".

I agree with you on that! There are people who are out there who have seen some people who have done it that havn't been in the right, and now they have a myoptic view of pentecostal shouting! When it's right, then go for it, otherwise, SIT 'EM DOWN!!

[Dr. Vaughn]

I agree with you on that! There are people who are out there who have seen some people who have done it that havn't been in the right, and now they have a myoptic view of pentecostal shouting! When it's right, then go for it, otherwise, SIT 'EM DOWN!!

then where lies our disagreement?

[B_Kendrick]

then where lies our disagreement?

Oh brother... I believe in Pentecostal when in decency and in order! You... Don't believe in it at all! Unless we have now convinced you otherwise!! :whistle

[theoldpaths]

Sorry NO prize. I understood what you said but it was wrong. You claim we base our demonstative worship on assumption and I declare you base you argument on asummptions having to be read INTO the text. The text itself is clear. The onlookers thought they were drunk on new wine not linquists but drunkards. Again Peter said it was BOTH seen and heard v.33.

Very good point elder.

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

If was NOT just what they heard - it was ALSO what they saw. Not one BOTH.

If one claims it was just what they HEARD after reading the scripture above, then they are willfully ignoring what the word of God says.

God's word is truth - Let God be true and every man a liar.