McCain Allows Daughter to Choose to Abort?

[Deep Threat]

New York Times, January 27, 2000

The Arizona senator appeared caught off guard when a reporter asked whether, if his 15-year-old daughter, Meghan, became pregnant, he would tell her that she could not have an abortion.

''No,'' Mr. McCain said. ''I would discuss this issue with Cindy and Meghan, and this would be a private decision that we would share within our family. Obviously I would encourage her to know that that baby would be brought up in a warm loving family. The final decision would be made by Meghan with our advice and counsel, and I think that's such a private matter.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E7DC123CF934A15752C0A9669C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all


“Family Conference” if daughter wanted an abortion

KEYES [to McCain]: What you would say if your daughter was ever in a position where she might need an abortion? You answered [earlier today] that the choice would be up to her and then that you’d have a family conference. That displayed a profound lack of understanding of the basic issue of principle involved in abortion. After all, if your daughter said she was contemplating killing her grandmother for the inheritance, you wouldn’t say, “Let’s have a family conference.” You’d look at her and say “Just Say No,“ because that is morally wrong. It is God’s choice that that child is in the womb. And for us to usurp that choice in contradiction of our declaration of principles is just as wrong.

McCAIN: I am proud of my pro-life record in public life, and I will continue to maintain it. I will not draw my children into this discussion. As a leader of a pro-life party with a pro-life position, I will persuade young Americans [to] understand the importance of the preservation of the rights of the unborn.

Source: (X-ref from Keyes) GOP Debate in Manchester NH Jan 26, 2000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQU0TF18ZfI

[Deep Threat]

Abortion vs. listening to rap?

Pick your poison.

Is McCain fit to be President if he cant tell his daughter straight out NO, it's wrong.

His NY Times quote tells me he is indeed Pro-Choice.

Why the waffle?

I know why. Votes.

[Cindy]

Your thread title is misleading to say the least.

[BrotherEastman]

I'd rather listen to rap than murder an unborn baby.

[Deep Threat]

I'd rather listen to rap than murder an unborn baby.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[vrblackwell]

McCain's voting record is what it is. You can see oit below.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

Not only does Barack Hussein Obama support partial birth abortion, he believes the woman has the right to have the baby murdered right after it is born, he held this position in his senate race.

[tamor]

Your thread title is misleading to say the least.

Yes it is. It alludes to the fact that she is pregnant and making that decision.

[Deep Threat]

Yes it is. It alludes to the fact that she is pregnant and making that decision.

No it asks a question and McCain gives his straight answer to a hypothetical to the press.

[Deep Threat]

John McCain on Abortion

--------------------------------

Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them

On “Meet the Press,” McCain said he had “come to the conclusion that the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother are legitimate exceptions” to an outright ban on abortions. “I don’t claim to be a theologian, but I have my moral beliefs.” If Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion outlawed, McCain said he believes doctors who performed abortions would be prosecuted. “But I would not prosecute a woman” who obtained an abortion. Source: Boston Globe, p. A9 Jan 31, 2000

“Family Conference” if daughter wanted an abortion

KEYES [to McCain]: What you would say if your daughter was ever in a position where she might need an abortion? You answered [earlier today] that the choice would be up to her and then that you’d have a family conference. That displayed a profound lack of understanding of the basic issue of principle involved in abortion. After all, if your daughter said she was contemplating killing her grandmother for the inheritance, you wouldn’t say, “Let’s have a family conference.” You’d look at her and say “Just Say No,“ because that is morally wrong. It is God’s choice that that child is in the womb. And for us to usurp that choice in contradiction of our declaration of principles is just as wrong. McCAIN: I am proud of my pro-life record in public life, and I will continue to maintain it. I will not draw my children into this discussion. As a leader of a pro-life party with a pro-life position, I will persuade young Americans [to] understand the importance of the preservation of the rights of the unborn.
Source: (X-ref from Keyes) GOP Debate in Manchester NH Jan 26, 2000

Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape

McCain was asked whether he would reinstate the Reagan era rule that prevents international family planning clinics that receive federal funds from discussing abortion. “I don’t believe they should advocate abortion with my tax dollars,” McCain said, adding that he opposed abortion except in cases of rape and incest. He was then asked how he would determine whether someone had in fact been raped. McCain responded, “I think that I would give the benefit of the doubt to the person who alleges that.” Source: New York Times, p. A17 Jan 25, 2000

Supports fetal tissue research; against over-intensity

McCain was asked how he could be anti-abortion and still vote to support fetal tissue research. He supports fetal-tissue research, McCain said, because it has helped make progress against Parkinson’s disease. McCain concluded that abortion rights and anti-abortion activists should cooperate on issues of foster care and adoption. He had made his decision on abortion, he said, “after a lot of study, consultation, and a lot of prayer.” He added, “I’d like to have less intensity on this issue.” Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000

Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions

McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger. Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000

Support adoption & foster care; work together on abortion

Q: Should Republicans encourage pro-choice voters to support their candidates?
A: We must begin a dialogue and a discussion on the issue of abortion. Both pro-life & pro-choice people believe very strongly that we need to eliminate abortion. I and my wife, Cindy, are proud adoptive parents. We need to encourage adoption in America. We need to improve foster care dramatically. We can work together. We can have respectful disagreements on specific issues, and we can work together on this one. Source: Republican Debate at Dartmouth College Oct 29, 1999

Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it

McCain said, “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” A spokesman said that McCain “has a 17-year voting record of supporting efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade. He does that currently, and will continue to do that as president.” Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999

Opposes partial-birth abortions & public financing

In a letter to the National Right to Life Committee, McCain detailed a long anti-abortion record, including his sponsorship of the effort to overturn President Clinton’s veto of a bill banning late-term procedures called “partial birth” abortions. He also has opposed public financing of abortions, except in cases of rape, incest or a threat to the mother’s life. Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999

Nominate justices based on experience, and values

On the issue of nominating Supreme Court justices based on an abortion litmus-test, “McCain has said that he will nominate justices based on their experience, and those who share his values,” said a spokesman. Source: Associated Press Jun 14, 1999

Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding

1. McCain supports the following statements:
2. Abortions should be legal only when the pregnancy resulted from incest, rape, or when the life of the woman is endangered.
3. Prohibit the late-term abortion procedure known as “partial-birth” abortion.
4. Prohibit public funding of abortions and public funding of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.

Source: Project Vote Smart, 1998, www.vote-smart.org Jul 2, 1998

Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions.

Vote on a motion to table [kill] an amendment that would repeal the ban on privately funded abortions at overseas military facilities. Bill S 2549 ; vote number 2000-134 on Jun 20, 2000

Voted YES on allowing partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion.

Status: Bill Passed Y)63; N)34; NV)3 Reference: Partial Birth Abortion Ban; Bill S. 1692 ; vote number 1999-340 on Oct 21, 1999

------------------------------------------------------------------
Will the Real John McCain please stand up.

This chameleon has more colors than a drag queen parading at Mardis Gras!!!

[rgcraig]

I think we need a separate political section!

[tamor]

No it asks a question and McCain gives his straight answer to a hypothetical to the press.

Your title is still misleading.

[Deep Threat]

Your title is still misleading.

And yours is still an opinion.

[tamor]

And yours is still an opinion.

So is yours.

[Deep Threat]

So is yours.

I know but you're the one fussing.

[Deep Threat]

McCain's voting record is what it is. You can see oit below.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

Not only does Barack Hussein Obama support partial birth abortion, he believes the woman has the right to have the baby murdered right after it is born, he held this position in his senate race.

You are either

a. gullible
b. ignorant on this matter
c. being deceitful
d. drinking kegs of KOOLAID.

This is a man who has been speaking on both sides of his mouth on the abortion issue for political expediency for years. In 2000, he blasted Bush for taking a a full-fledged pro-life stance and has made contradictory statements on Roe v. Wade when on camera or in front of a crowd.

None of his votes in the Senate in anyway could overturn Roe v Wade because it would take a constitutional amendment -- which in 2000 he did not support.

Refusing to expand abortion or fund certain aspects of it does not a PRO-LIFER make.

That is why James Dobson until now will not endorse him although is reconsidering his position. Dobson went as far as saying he will not cast a vote in November because he could not in good conscience vote for McCain.

He has stated he's pro-choice in the case of his daughter. That tells me enough on where he stands.

Do his multiple views on the issue mean anything to you? Does being principled matter to you? Or are you a GOP sycophant?

[tamor]

I know but you're the one fussing.

I'm not fussing. Stating my opinion. Learn the difference.

[Deep Threat]

I'm not fussing. Stating my opinion. Learn the difference.

You're still fussing. :bigbaby

[tamor]

You're still fussing. :bigbaby

So are you. :snapout

[rgcraig]

You're still fussing. :bigbaby

:snapout

[vrblackwell]

I'm not fussing. Stating my opinion. Learn the difference.


Are you kidding, he can't even tell the difference between an anti-American Socialist and an American Patriot. :tease

[tamor]

:snapout

:toofunny :toofunny

Same thought!!

[Deep Threat]

Are you kidding, he can't even tell the difference between an anti-American Socialist and an American Patriot. :tease

And you can't even tell when you're supporting a chameleon who supports a women's right to choose in his own heart.

I know I peeked. :tease

[vrblackwell]

And you can't even tell when you're supporting a chameleon who supports a women's right to choose in his own heart.

I know I peeked. :tease

I admit that McCain has flaws, he was not my first choice. But he is much, much better and closer to biblical beliefs then what Barack Hussein Obama is.

:snapout

[Deep Threat]

I admit that McCain has flaws, he was not my first choice. But he is much, much better and closer to biblical beliefs then what Barack Hussein Obama is.

:snapout

Right would that include having affairs while still married to his first wife who stuck through his tour in Vietnam and raised 3 kids while he stuck close to his and your biblical beliefs? Or was it his flip-flops on same sex marriage that sealed the deal for you, VB?

What does your bible say of a double-minded person?

[vrblackwell]

Right would that include having affairs while still married to his first wife who stuck through his tour in Vietnam and raised 3 kids while stuck close to his biblical beliefs? Or was it his flip-flops on same sex marriage that sealed the deal for you, VB?

What does your bible say of a double-minded person?

I'm sure he has repented and it is under the blood. However, Barack Hussein Obama continues to live in the sinful muck and mire that he seems to love so much. :snapout

[Mrs. LPW]

Yes it is. It alludes to the fact that she is pregnant and making that decision.

That is immediately what I thought.




As for a waffle, I didn't see one in those quotes.

[Deep Threat]

I'm sure he has repented and it is under the blood. However, Barack Hussein Obama continues to live in the sinful muck and mire that he seems to love so much. :snapout

You forgot he repented at the Western wall. When is the last evidence of a McCain repentance?

Oh, when he became a conservative pro-life candidate again after his failed 2000 Presidential bid.

[Sassy]

You forgot he repented at the Western wall. When is the last evidence of a McCain repentance?

Oh, when he became a conservative pro-life candidate again after his failed 2000 Presidential bid.

Ha...do you really think you can count that? My oppinion...it was for show.

[Deep Threat]

That is immediately what I thought.




As for a waffle, I didn't see one in those quotes.

Gulp. Gulp. Gulp.

Clean, icy, refreshing Koolaid.

Good thing Dr. Dobson, at least for now, sees the double-mindedness in McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yDro-hy3TU

But then again Dr. D is not an Apostolic discerner of hearts.

[vrblackwell]

You forgot he repented at the Western wall. When is the last evidence of a McCain repentance?

Oh, when he became a conservative pro-life candidate again after his failed 2000 Presidential bid.

No, that was not a repentance prayer by Barack Hussein Obama. That was politically staged stunt. He still thinks it is OK to kill a baby in the womb, partially out of the womb, and completely out of the womb.

He still thinks it is ok for George and George or Lucy and Lucy to get married and sleep together.

He still thinks that "the white folks greed runs a world of need".

He does not sound very repentant to me.:largehalo

[rgcraig]

Well, if there was any doubt who DT was....doubt there is now.

[Deep Threat]

Dr. James Dobson, February 2008

I am deeply disappointed the Republican Party seems poised to select a nominee who did not support a Constitutional amendment to protect the institution of marriage, voted for embryonic stem cell research to kill nascent human beings, opposed tax cuts that ended the marriage penalty, has little regard for freedom of speech, organized the Gang of 14 to preserve filibusters in judicial hearings, and has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene language.

I am convinced Sen. McCain is not a conservative, and in fact, has gone out of his way to stick his thumb in the eyes of those who are. He has sounded at times more like a member of the other party. McCain actually considered leaving the GOP caucus in 2001, and approached John Kerry about being Kerry’s running mate in 2004. McCain also said publicly that Hillary Clinton would make a good president. Given these and many other concerns, a spoonful of sugar does NOT make the medicine go down. I cannot, and will not, vote for Sen. John McCain, as a matter of conscience.

But what a sad and melancholy decision this is for me and many other conservatives. Should Sen. McCain capture the nomination as many assume, I believe this general election will offer the worst choices for president in my lifetime. I certainly can't vote for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama based on their virulently anti-family policy positions. If these are the nominees in November, I simply will not cast a ballot for president for the first time in my life. These decisions are my personal views and do not represent the organization with which I am affiliated. They do reflect my deeply held convictions about the institution of the family, about moral and spiritual beliefs, and about the welfare of our country.

[vrblackwell]

You don't seem to get it. We are not saying that McCain is without flaw. We wanted a stronger conservitive.

However, he is much better then Barack Hussein Obama. You cannot deny that. Also, their voting record is what it is. I forgot that though, Barack Hussein Obama does not have much of a record, "just words".

[Mrs. LPW]

Gulp. Gulp. Gulp.

Clean, icy, refreshing Koolaid.
.

I'm not drinking any Koolaid and I'm not discerning any hearts. It's not my election to vote... those first two quotes though, I didn't see some big waffle... just didn't see it.

If someone asked me the same question, I could say the same thing and not feel badly about it.





(if I were going to set up an alter ego, I'd change the tenor of my posting style as well :D

[Sassy]

Dr. James Dobson, February 2008

I am deeply disappointed the Republican Party seems poised to select a nominee who did not support a Constitutional amendment to protect the institution of marriage, voted for embryonic stem cell research to kill nascent human beings, opposed tax cuts that ended the marriage penalty, has little regard for freedom of speech, organized the Gang of 14 to preserve filibusters in judicial hearings, and has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene language.

I am convinced Sen. McCain is not a conservative, and in fact, has gone out of his way to stick his thumb in the eyes of those who are. He has sounded at times more like a member of the other party. McCain actually considered leaving the GOP caucus in 2001, and approached John Kerry about being Kerry’s running mate in 2004. McCain also said publicly that Hillary Clinton would make a good president. Given these and many other concerns, a spoonful of sugar does NOT make the medicine go down. I cannot, and will not, vote for Sen. John McCain, as a matter of conscience.

But what a sad and melancholy decision this is for me and many other conservatives. Should Sen. McCain capture the nomination as many assume, I believe this general election will offer the worst choices for president in my lifetime. I certainly can't vote for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama based on their virulently anti-family policy positions. If these are the nominees in November, I simply will not cast a ballot for president for the first time in my life. These decisions are my personal views and do not represent the organization with which I am affiliated. They do reflect my deeply held convictions about the institution of the family, about moral and spiritual beliefs, and about the welfare of our country.

[tamor]

(if I were going to set up an alter ego, I'd change the tenor of my posting style as well :D

:toofunny :toofunny

[Deep Threat]

You don't seem to get it. We are not saying that McCain is without flaw. We wanted a stronger conservitive.

However, he is much better then Barack Hussein Obama. You cannot deny that. Also, their voting record is what it is. I forgot that though, Barack Hussein Obama does not have much of a record, "just words".

More disingenuous blather.

Tell me when your done reading through Obama's voting record.

Reams of it.

http://obama.senate.gov/votes/

[Deep Threat]

I am deeply disappointed the Republican Party seems poised to select a nominee who did not support a Constitutional amendment to protect the institution of marriage, voted for embryonic stem cell research to kill nascent human beings, opposed tax cuts that ended the marriage penalty, has little regard for freedom of speech, organized the Gang of 14 to preserve filibusters in judicial hearings, and has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene language.

I am convinced Sen. McCain is not a conservative, and in fact, has gone out of his way to stick his thumb in the eyes of those who are. He has sounded at times more like a member of the other party. McCain actually considered leaving the GOP caucus in 2001, and approached John Kerry about being Kerry’s running mate in 2004. McCain also said publicly that Hillary Clinton would make a good president. Given these and many other concerns, a spoonful of sugar does NOT make the medicine go down. I cannot, and will not, vote for Sen. John McCain, as a matter of conscience.

But what a sad and melancholy decision this is for me and many other conservatives. Should Sen. McCain capture the nomination as many assume, I believe this general election will offer the worst choices for president in my lifetime. I certainly can't vote for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama based on their virulently anti-family policy positions. If these are the nominees in November, I simply will not cast a ballot for president for the first time in my life. These decisions are my personal views and do not represent the organization with which I am affiliated. They do reflect my deeply held convictions about the institution of the family, about moral and spiritual beliefs, and about the welfare of our country.


We all know that Democrats don't have family values.

Where is that El Toro pic.

[Mrs. LPW]

Well, if there was any doubt who DT was....doubt there is now.

;)

He's gotta stop using those big words and that Koolaid analogy.

[philjones]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Unfortunately, Obamamama would allow his daughter to do both!

Now what do you say? :D

Your arguments are specious and without merit! Full of the volumes of emptiness that characterize every word out of Obama's cavernous mouth! :)

[Deep Threat]

Unfortunately, Obamamama would allow his daughter to do both!

Now what do you say? :D

At least he's not double-minded.

God regurgitates when one is neither hot or cold.

Now what do YOU SAY?

[Mrs. LPW]

At least he's not double-minded.

God regurgitates when one is neither hot or cold.

Now what do YOU SAY?

So much for the moderates.
















:toofunny

[tstew]

You don't seem to get it. We are not saying that McCain is without flaw. We wanted a stronger conservitive.

However, he is much better then Barack Hussein Obama. You cannot deny that. Also, their voting record is what it is. I forgot that though, Barack Hussein Obama does not have much of a record, "just words".

(From an article)
McCain's voting record, or lack thereof
Senator Ted Kennedy, who suffers from a life-threatening brain tumor that requires daily treatment, has now officially voted more times in the last few months than John McCain. And Kennedy's only voted once since being diagnosed on May 20.

Kennedy wanted to make the Senate vote on the recent Medicare bill—which halted a 10% pay cut for physicians who accept Medicare—so badly that he supposedly flew from Massachusetts to DC after the day's treatment, walked onto the Senate floor to a standing ovation, belted out an "Aye," and then flew home immediately after the vote.

McCain? He hasn't showed up to vote since April 8, missing a total of 76 votes.

And we're not talking about inconsequential votes or voting margins large enough for his vote to be inconsequential. When the Senate took up the Medicare bill two weeks ago, it fell short by one vote, and Kennedy and McCain were the only absent Senators.

Here's the attendance record for the 110th Congress according to the Washington Post's database:

John McCain: Missed 374 votes (61.8% of total)
Barack Obama: Missed 263 votes (43.5% of total)

As I've said before, missing a few votes when you're running for president is understandable. But at some point you have to at least attempt to do the job you were elected to do.

My biggest problem with a lot of these discussions is that people are just parroting what they hear or just taking wild guesses. The same institute that we use to label Obama as the most Liberal voter also stated that they were unable to grade McCain in the same time period because he had missed too many votes to register in their format.

[philjones]

At least he's not double-minded.

God regurgitates when one is neither hot or cold.

Now what do YOU SAY?

I say God is very busy throwing up right now. Thankfully he is every where present at once so while he hurling over the pitiful choices the US folks have for their president he is also still ruling in the kingdoms of men and I am covered by His wings and upheld by the strength of His hands!

That is what i say! :D

[philjones]

So much for the moderates.
















:toofunny

ROFL!!!!!!

[vrblackwell]

At least he's not double-minded.

God regurgitates when one is neither hot or cold.

Now what do YOU SAY?

Obama has changed his position as much if not more then McCain. All politicians do this, that's why we look at their voting record. That will tell you their true beliefs.

[Deep Threat]

(From an article)
McCain's voting record, or lack thereof
Senator Ted Kennedy, who suffers from a life-threatening brain tumor that requires daily treatment, has now officially voted more times in the last few months than John McCain. And Kennedy's only voted once since being diagnosed on May 20.

Kennedy wanted to make the Senate vote on the recent Medicare bill—which halted a 10% pay cut for physicians who accept Medicare—so badly that he supposedly flew from Massachusetts to DC after the day's treatment, walked onto the Senate floor to a standing ovation, belted out an "Aye," and then flew home immediately after the vote.

McCain? He hasn't showed up to vote since April 8, missing a total of 76 votes.

And we're not talking about inconsequential votes or voting margins large enough for his vote to be inconsequential. When the Senate took up the Medicare bill two weeks ago, it fell short by one vote, and Kennedy and McCain were the only absent Senators.

Here's the attendance record for the 110th Congress according to the Washington Post's database:

John McCain: Missed 374 votes (61.8% of total)
Barack Obama: Missed 263 votes (43.5% of total)

As I've said before, missing a few votes when you're running for president is understandable. But at some point you have to at least attempt to do the job you were elected to do.

My biggest problem with a lot of these discussions is that people are just parroting what they hear or just taking wild guesses. The same institute that we use to label Obama as the most Liberal voter also stated that they were unable to grade McCain in the same time period because he had missed too many votes to register in their format.

If Rush and Hannity say it then it's got to be bible.

Way too many parrots.

I remember when Rush hated McCain.

[Cindy]

I think we need a separate political section!

I think we need a separate Daniel section.:whistle
Where he can debate himself.

[Deep Threat]

Obama has changed his position as much if not more then McCain. All politicians do this, that's why we look at their voting record. That will tell you their true beliefs.

You have been basing your latest posts on family values, VB.

The McCain flip-flops deal with moral issues important to the conservative base.

Of course, politicians should evolve when dealing with policies dealing with economics and other things that are fluid.

I would hope they can react to the markets and new information in making decisions even if they have to change their previous stance.

But when one changes moral views like PP changes screen names there is a problem with character. When even true conservatives like James Dobson see this double-mindedness how can one trust him when in office to represent what you think he represents today?

We know where Obama has stood on these moral issues for years. McCain, who knows?

[philjones]

You have been basing your latest posts on family values, VB.

The McCain flip-flops deal with moral issues important to the conservative base.

Of course, politicians should evolve when dealing with policies dealing with economics and other things that are fluid.

I would hope they can react to the markets and new information in making decisions even if they have to change their previous stance.

But when one changes moral views like PP changes screen names there is a problem with character. When even true conservatives like James Dobson see this double-mindedness how can one trust him when in office to represent what you think he represents today?

We know where Obama has stood on these moral issues for years. McCain, who knows?

You make a valid point... Obama has ALWAYS been immoral in his positions so that is a good reason to support him... consistency thou art a jewel! :)

[Deep Threat]

You make a valid point... Obama has ALWAYS been immoral in his positions so that is a good reason to support him... consistency thou art a jewel! :)

We should ask McCain's former mistresses about their take on the matter.

[tstew]

I'm curious as to why in light of the voting info that I posted, noone has any comment or criticism on McCain's serious lack of voting. This same perceived shortcoming in Obama was being heralded as something seriously wrong. When I point out that McCain has been significantly worse in this exact same area, there was no negative response. This is what I'm talking about when I reference the serious subjectivity that has almost undone the true democratic nature of our system. It's like "if you do it I'll roast you but if my boy does it I'll look the other way or decide it is somehow no longer important". I believe in accountability over blind loyalty in the political process.

[Deep Threat]

I'm curious as to why in light of the voting info that I posted, noone has any comment or criticism on McCain's serious lack of voting. This same perceived shortcoming in Obama was being heralded as something seriously wrong. When I point out that McCain has been significantly worse in this exact same area, there was no negative response. This is what I'm talking about when I reference the serious subjectivity that has almost undone the true democratic nature of our system. It's like "if you do it I'll roast you but if my boy does it I'll look the other way or decide it is somehow no longer important". I believe in accountability over blind loyalty in the political process.

Maybe because followers laying prostrate at the altar of McShame have no shame?

[vrblackwell]

(From an article)
McCain's voting record, or lack thereof
Senator Ted Kennedy, who suffers from a life-threatening brain tumor that requires daily treatment, has now officially voted more times in the last few months than John McCain. And Kennedy's only voted once since being diagnosed on May 20.

Kennedy wanted to make the Senate vote on the recent Medicare bill—which halted a 10% pay cut for physicians who accept Medicare—so badly that he supposedly flew from Massachusetts to DC after the day's treatment, walked onto the Senate floor to a standing ovation, belted out an "Aye," and then flew home immediately after the vote.

McCain? He hasn't showed up to vote since April 8, missing a total of 76 votes.

And we're not talking about inconsequential votes or voting margins large enough for his vote to be inconsequential. When the Senate took up the Medicare bill two weeks ago, it fell short by one vote, and Kennedy and McCain were the only absent Senators.

Here's the attendance record for the 110th Congress according to the Washington Post's database:

John McCain: Missed 374 votes (61.8% of total)
Barack Obama: Missed 263 votes (43.5% of total)

As I've said before, missing a few votes when you're running for president is understandable. But at some point you have to at least attempt to do the job you were elected to do.

My biggest problem with a lot of these discussions is that people are just parroting what they hear or just taking wild guesses. The same institute that we use to label Obama as the most Liberal voter also stated that they were unable to grade McCain in the same time period because he had missed too many votes to register in their format.

No doubt he has missed a lot of votes while campaigning.

However, that does not change the fact that Obama, while voting, cast the wrong vote.

[philjones]

We should ask McCain's former mistresses about their take on the matter.

Go ahead... I have already said we have sickening choice in our presidential candidates. I make no secret of that. I will say, though, that Obama is just an empty shell of a man who is possessed of rhetoric and a call for change with absolutely no substance and I find the thought of such an empty head sitting upon the shoulders of such a great nation reprehensible. He has done NOTHING... Says NOTHING and, in my biased opinion, IS NOTHING... NOTHiNG short of a rabble rouser with the intent to further weaken the patriotism of America and destroy every foundation upon which our nation has been built... all in the name of change and his skewed vision of hope.

I am done...

AFF needs a focused political arena so we who really dislike all this junk aren't tempted to jump in and offend folks! :D

[Cindy]

I'm curious as to why in light of the voting info that I posted, noone has any comment or criticism on McCain's serious lack of voting. This same perceived shortcoming in Obama was being heralded as something seriously wrong. When I point out that McCain has been significantly worse in this exact same area, there was no negative response. This is what I'm talking about when I reference the serious subjectivity that has almost undone the true democratic nature of our system. It's like "if you do it I'll roast you but if my boy does it I'll look the other way or decide it is somehow no longer important". I believe in accountability over blind loyalty in the political process.

Mostly because this thread is not about McCain or Obama's voting record. It is about mis-information of both sides.
I will not vote because of anything posted on this forum anway.
I will not vote for either of these candidates.

[tstew]

No doubt he has missed a lot of votes while campaigning.

However, that does not change the fact that Obama, while voting, cast the wrong vote.

Doesn't fly...due to the amount of time when McCain locked up the nomination as opposed to Obama, McCain has had considerable more time to vote than Obama. Obama has been involved in an active, intense campaign process for so long that it is almost unprecedented.

Secondly, the study that we use to label the nature of the votes that McCain did not qualify for, was well before the campaign cycle.

[vrblackwell]

Go ahead... I have already said we have sickening choice in our presidential candidates. I make no secret of that. I will say, though, that Obama is just an empty shell of a man who is possessed of rhetoric and a call for change with absolutely no substance and I find the thought of such an empty head sitting upon the shoulders of such a great nation reprehensible. He has done NOTHING... Says NOTHING and, in my biased opinion, IS NOTHING... NOTHiNG short of a rabble rouser with the intent to further weaken the patriotism of America and destroy every foundation upon which our nation has been built... all in the name of change and his skewed vision of hope.

I am done...

AFF needs a focused political arena so we who really dislike all this junk aren't tempted to jump in and offend folks! :D

Very well said. it is obvious who the look-aid drinkers are. We have admitted that the choices for president or poor, that McCain has problems that we do not like. However, he is much better then Obama.

You who support the "chosen one" can find no fault with him. It is obvious that you do not have the ability or will to lay out both candidates and choose the best of the two.

That is a shame, I can only pray that the majority of Americans still love the principles of capitalism, and the principles of God that has made this country great. Because if not, they with your help, will elect a twit that seeks to destroy those great principles.

I am tired of arguing as well. Facts are what they are. Good Day.

[tstew]

Mostly because this thread is not about McCain or Obama's voting record. It is about mis-information of both sides.
I will not vote because of anything posted on this forum anway.
I will not vote for either of these candidates.

Cn, I was just pointing out the fact that on this thread as well as in others, Obama's perceived propensity to skip votes was specifically pointed to as a serious flaw. When I pointed out that McCain was significantly more deficient in this exact same area, it seemed that the significance of that area of governance diminished. All I'm saying is that if you are going to roast someone for doing something, at least have the balance to roast the other if they are significantly worse in the exact same area.

[vrblackwell]

Doesn't fly...due to the amount of time when McCain locked up the nomination as opposed to Obama, McCain has had considerable more time to vote than Obama. Obama has been involved in an active, intense campaign process for so long that it is almost unprecedented.

Secondly, the study that we use to label the nature of the votes that McCain did not qualify for, was well before the campaign cycle.

Last reply. Go check out obama's voting record in the state senate. He voted present on all tough issues. A poor voting record.

[tstew]

Very well said. it is obvious who the look-aid drinkers are. We have admitted that the choices for president or poor, that McCain has problems that we do not like. However, he is much better then Obama.

You who support the "chosen one" can find no fault with him. It is obvious that you do not have the ability or will to lay out both candidates and choose the best of the two.

That is a shame, I can only pray that the majority of Americans still love the principles of capitalism, and the principles of God that has made this country great. Because if not, they with your help, will elect a twit that seeks to destroy those great principles.

I am tired of arguing as well. Facts are what they are. Good Day.

Vr the point is that it is just as possible to have Republican koolaid drinkers. I know because I used to be one. One that bought into the lip-service played to the things that I hold to be sacred and moral. The evidence of kool aid drinking on either side is when you can see a flaw in one and not recognize the exact same flaw in the other.

[Cindy]

Cn, I was just pointing out the fact that on this thread as well as in others, Obama's perceived propensity to skip votes was specifically pointed to as a serious flaw. When I pointed out that McCain was significantly more deficient in this exact same area, it seemed that the significance of that area of governance diminished. All I'm saying is that if you are going to roast someone for doing something, at least have the balance to roast the other if they are significantly worse in the exact same area.

I really don't think many voters look at this Brother Stewart. They just follow what they see on TV, read in the newspapers. In other words, allow the media to choose who they will vote for. And we all know how unbiased the media is.

[BrotherEastman]

Gulp. Gulp. Gulp.

Clean, icy, refreshing Koolaid.

Good thing Dr. Dobson, at least for now, sees the double-mindedness in McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yDro-hy3TU

But then again Dr. D is not an Apostolic discerner of hearts.
A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. LOL!:ursofunny Not to worry deap, I clearly see the inconsistency; however, Obama is still not my choice. I will not vote for either of the canidates.

[tstew]

Last reply. Go check out obama's voting record in the state senate. He voted present on all tough issues. A poor voting record.

Last reply as well...compare the two objectively when it comes to voting missed.

[tstew]

I really don't think many voters look at this Brother Stewart. They just follow what they see on TV, read in the newspapers. In other words, allow the media to choose who they will vote for. And we all know how unbiased the media is.

My problem is that that is the undoing of the true democratic process. You end up with people who vote one way because they are Black and a party knows how to pay lip service to them. You also end up with people who vote one way because they believe the Bible and one party pays lip service to that. I wish to God that the Republicans that I have supported my entire life had created the kind of America that I want. The issue is that they don't actually have to do anything significant to enjoy die-hard support either way. There are plenty of kool-aid drinkers on both sides...one being poured by a man, the other by an entire political party.

[Deep Threat]

Vr the point is that it is just as possible to have Republican koolaid drinkers. I know because I used to be one. One that bought into the lip-service played to the things that I hold to be sacred and moral. The evidence of kool aid drinking on either side is when you can see a flaw in one and not recognize the exact same flaw in the other.

Post of the day

[BrotherEastman]

Vr the point is that it is just as possible to have Republican koolaid drinkers. I know because I used to be one. One that bought into the lip-service played to the things that I hold to be sacred and moral. The evidence of kool aid drinking on either side is when you can see a flaw in one and not recognize the exact same flaw in the other.
Exactly why I will no longer support the GOP that I do notconsider a viable option. I still refuse to support a Democrat though.

[vrblackwell]

Vr the point is that it is just as possible to have Republican koolaid drinkers. I know because I used to be one. One that bought into the lip-service played to the things that I hold to be sacred and moral. The evidence of kool aid drinking on either side is when you can see a flaw in one and not recognize the exact same flaw in the other.

I have to respond. lol, last one.

I vote for issues, not because someone tells me. I study each candidate and choose them according to their policies. If they have a fault,, I will tell you.

We all have two choices in an election. One is a democrat, one is a republican. I am a conservative. The republican party's platform at this time is closer to sharing the principles that I hold.

Does that mean their are not some who hold the republican name that go against some of my principles, of course not.

Obama openly says he is for gay marriage, that he is for abortion in all stages, even after the baby is born. He is against drilling for oil, he is against the free market that has made America the strongest economy in the world. He is for higher taxes, he is for punishing those who have worked hard and done well.

He is for rewarding those who are lazy and refuse to do better by taking from the unlazy. He is for a socialistic economy, you cannot argue that fact. A socialistic economy does not work, never has, never will.

John McCain is for lower taxes, smaller government, stronger military, drilling for our own oil, and he is for a capitalistic economy which works, it has made us the greatest nation in the world.

He is against abortion, he believes the definition of marriage stay the way it is. he would support Supreme court judges who will not legislate from the bench, Obama will not.


I did not get my principles from Rush or Hannity, though I share many of the same principles that they do. I study issues, I stay informed and make my own decisions.

When looking at these two candidates, it is clear they are both flawed, but one is better then the other. Ones policies would destroy the principles that has made America great.

Therefore the only choice I have is to vote for McCain, not because he is perfect, but because he is closer to perfect then what Obama is.

[tstew]

Exactly why I will no longer support the GOP that I do notconsider a viable option. I still refuse to support a Democrat though.

For me it is not even an issue of who you support, it's just that if you do things like that you lose credibilty with someone who is objectively trying to find facts. The biggest problem with that approach is that whole new generation of voters is becoming very involved in the political process in unprecedented numbers and they have been raised in the information age and have been raised to question everything. That is evident both in politics and in church these days. Cliches, lip service, and double talk will not fly in either arena if you are trying to win those people.

[tstew]

I have to respond. lol, last one.

I vote for issues, not because someone tells me. I study each candidate and choose them according to their policies. If they have a fault,, I will tell you.

We all have two choices in an election. One is a democrat, one is a republican. I am a conservative. The republican party's platform at this time is closer to sharing the principles that I hold.

Does that mean their are not some who hold the republican name that go against some of my principles, of course not.

Obama openly says he is for gay marriage, that he is for abortion in all stages, even after the baby is born. He is against drilling for oil, he is against the free market that has made America the strongest economy in the world. He is for higher taxes, he is for punishing those who have worked hard and done well.

He is for rewarding those who are lazy and refuse to do better by taking from the unlazy. He is for a socialistic economy, you cannot argue that fact. A socialistic economy does not work, never has, never will.

John McCain is for lower taxes, smaller government, stronger military, drilling for our own oil, and he is for a capitalistic economy which works, it has made us the greatest nation in the world.

He is against abortion, he believes the definition of marriage stay the way it is. he would support Supreme court judges who will not legislate from the bench, Obama will not.


I did not get my principles from Rush or Hannity, though I share many of the same principles that they do. I study issues, I stay informed and make my own decisions.

When looking at these two candidates, it is clear they are both flawed, but one is better then the other. Ones policies would destroy the principles that has made America great.

Therefore the only choice I have is to vote for McCain, not because he is perfect, but because he is closer to perfect then what Obama is.

I can buy that, but the problem is that so many people are so entrenched that they cannot be objective enough in conversation to even appear balanced. That is what gives the appearance of a koolaid drinker on either side.

[vrblackwell]

I can buy that, but the problem is that so many people are so entrenched that they cannot be objective enough in conversation to even appear balanced. That is what gives the appearance of a koolaid drinker on either side.

On this we agree!

[tstew]

On this we agree!

To be honest I think that you would be surprised to find out how much we do agree on. I am much more conservative than I come across in these discussions because I tend to end up more aligned in these debates with the liberals. My problem is that I feel too strongly about my conservative moral ideals to allow them to become a campaign tool that leads nowhere.

Have a good day. (and I'll check out the vid when I get to the office)

[Rico]

(From an article)
McCain's voting record, or lack thereof
Senator Ted Kennedy, who suffers from a life-threatening brain tumor that requires daily treatment, has now officially voted more times in the last few months than John McCain. And Kennedy's only voted once since being diagnosed on May 20.

Kennedy wanted to make the Senate vote on the recent Medicare bill—which halted a 10% pay cut for physicians who accept Medicare—so badly that he supposedly flew from Massachusetts to DC after the day's treatment, walked onto the Senate floor to a standing ovation, belted out an "Aye," and then flew home immediately after the vote.

McCain? He hasn't showed up to vote since April 8, missing a total of 76 votes.

And we're not talking about inconsequential votes or voting margins large enough for his vote to be inconsequential. When the Senate took up the Medicare bill two weeks ago, it fell short by one vote, and Kennedy and McCain were the only absent Senators.

Here's the attendance record for the 110th Congress according to the Washington Post's database:

John McCain: Missed 374 votes (61.8% of total)
Barack Obama: Missed 263 votes (43.5% of total)

As I've said before, missing a few votes when you're running for president is understandable. But at some point you have to at least attempt to do the job you were elected to do.

My biggest problem with a lot of these discussions is that people are just parroting what they hear or just taking wild guesses. The same institute that we use to label Obama as the most Liberal voter also stated that they were unable to grade McCain in the same time period because he had missed too many votes to register in their format.


OOOOOOPS! :lol

[Rico]

Go ahead... I have already said we have sickening choice in our presidential candidates. I make no secret of that. I will say, though, that Obama is just an empty shell of a man who is possessed of rhetoric and a call for change with absolutely no substance and I find the thought of such an empty head sitting upon the shoulders of such a great nation reprehensible. He has done NOTHING... Says NOTHING and, in my biased opinion, IS NOTHING... NOTHiNG short of a rabble rouser with the intent to further weaken the patriotism of America and destroy every foundation upon which our nation has been built... all in the name of change and his skewed vision of hope.

I am done...

AFF needs a focused political arena so we who really dislike all this junk aren't tempted to jump in and offend folks! :D

:D Brother, I really wish you'd quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think! :D

[Rico]

Very well said. it is obvious who the look-aid drinkers are. We have admitted that the choices for president or poor, that McCain has problems that we do not like. However, he is much better then Obama.

You who support the "chosen one" can find no fault with him. It is obvious that you do not have the ability or will to lay out both candidates and choose the best of the two.

That is a shame, I can only pray that the majority of Americans still love the principles of capitalism, and the principles of God that has made this country great. Because if not, they with your help, will elect a twit that seeks to destroy those great principles.

I am tired of arguing as well. Facts are what they are. Good Day.

McCain is a warmonger who believes in adultery. That's the kind of righteousness you want to support?

[vrblackwell]

McCain is a warmonger who believes in adultery. That's the kind of righteousness you want to support?

Obama is a baby murderer and a supporter of gay relationships, and a socialist. You want to be a part of that?

[Rico]

Obama is a baby murderer and a supporter of gay relationships, and a socialist. You want to be a part of that?

Tell me, exactly how many babies has Obama murdered? I can tell you for a fact that McCain cheated on his wife. That makes him an adulterer. Obama hasn't murdered anyone. Trying to say that Obama being pro-choice makes him a murderer would be the same as trying to say anyone who is in favor of gun rights is also a murderer. The accusation is baseless.

I've got some other shocking news for you too. Your bud McCain is in favor of domestic partnerships. You know, those legally binding contracts gay people get that gives them the same basic rights as a married couple. So much for that argument.

Also, Jesus was the Premier Socialist, so have fun wrapping your politically conservative brain around that one while you convince yourself you're actually voting for rightheousness when you cast your ballot for the warmongering adulterer.

[vrblackwell]

Tell me, exactly how many babies has Obama murdered? I can tell you for a fact that McCain cheated on his wife. That makes him an adulterer. Obama hasn't murdered anyone. Trying to say that Obama being pro-choice makes him a murderer would be the same as trying to say anyone who is in favor of gun rights is also a murderer. The accusation is baseless.

I've got some other shocking news for you too. Your bud McCain is in favor of domestic partnerships. You know, those legally binding contracts gay people get that gives them the same basic rights as a married couple. So much for that argument.

Also, Jesus was the Premier Socialist, so have fun wrapping your politically conservative brain around that one while you convince yourself you're actually voting for rightheousness when you cast your ballot for the warmongering adulterer.

You can't tell me anything about McCain that I don't know. Like I have said, he has many flaws, but not as many as Obama.

When you give someone a gun knowing that they are going to use it to kill someone, you have become an accessory to murder.

When you vote for someone who votes for legislation that helps the brains of babies to be sucked out, you have become an accessory to that sin.

McCain, I am sure has repented of anything he did concerning his past. That has been a long time ago.

Obama is presently supporting the murder of babies. So when you vote for him, remember that you are helping to suck the brains and life out of babies.

I'll take a repentant adulterer over that any day.

[Tim Rutledge]

You can't tell me anything about McCain that I don't know. Like I have said, he has many flaws, but not as many as Obama.

When you give someone a gun knowing that they are going to use it to kill someone, you have become an accessory to murder.

When you vote for someone who votes for legislation that helps the brains of babies to be sucked out, you have become an accessory to that sin.

McCain, I am sure has repented of anything he did concerning his past. That has been a long time ago.

Obama is presently supporting the murder of babies. So when you vote for him, remember that you are helping to suck the brains and life out of babies.

I'll take a repentant adulterer over that any day.


Wow.

[Rico]

You can't tell me anything about McCain that I don't know. Like I have said, he has many flaws, but not as many as Obama.

When you give someone a gun knowing that they are going to use it to kill someone, you have become an accessory to murder.

When you vote for someone who votes for legislation that helps the brains of babies to be sucked out, you have become an accessory to that sin.

McCain, I am sure has repented of anything he did concerning his past. That has been a long time ago.

Obama is presently supporting the murder of babies. So when you vote for him, remember that you are helping to suck the brains and life out of babies.

I'll take a repentant adulterer over that any day.

This is the same lame response you gave in the other thread, to which I replied HOGWASH!

[vrblackwell]

This is the same lame response you gave in the other thread, to which I replied HOGWASH!

You can call it hogwash if you like. But it is fact.:snapout

[Rico]

You can call it hogwash if you like. But it is fact.:snapout

Being pro-choice is not the same as committing murder, VB. You can repeat that lie as many times as you want, but it still won't be true. Obama hasn't murdered anyone. He just doesn't believe it his place, or the governments, to make the choice for or against an abortion for anyone. What other of your religious beliefs do you feel you have the right to force upon others?

[ReformedDave]

Being pro-choice is not the same as committing murder, VB. You can repeat that lie as many times as you want, but it still won't be true. Obama hasn't murdered anyone. He just doesn't believe it his place, or the governments, to make the choice for or against an abortion for anyone. What other of your religious beliefs do you feel you have the right to force upon others?

Do you believe that there are any crimes which capitol punishment is appropriate?

[vrblackwell]

Being pro-choice is not the same as committing murder, VB. You can repeat that lie as many times as you want, but it still won't be true. Obama hasn't murdered anyone. He just doesn't believe it his place, or the governments, to make the choice for or against an abortion for anyone. What other of your religious beliefs do you feel you have the right to force upon others?

It is more then just a religious belief. It is an American belief.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."

Even Babies have the right to life. No one has the right to kill them in the name of convenience.

[Rico]

It is more then just a religious belief. It is an American belief.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."

Even Babies have the right to life. No one has the right to kill them in the name of convenience.

This is funny. When that was written, black people weren't even considered persons. Listen, don't try to hide behind anything other than your opposition to abortion stemming from your religious beliefs. Trust me, that's a much better justification than the one you are trying to use in the above post. :lol

[vrblackwell]

This is funny. When that was written, black people weren't even considered persons. Listen, don't try to hide behind anything other than your opposition to abortion stemming from your religious beliefs. Trust me, that's a much better justification than the one you are trying to use in the above post. :lol

Rico, I don't hide behind anything. It is both a biblical issue, and a humane issue.

It is sad that someone who considers themselves to be a christian looks at a little child as a choice and not a life. It is obvious that is your stance. No need to argue with you anymore about it. Instead, I will pray for you.

[Rico]

Rico, I don't hide behind anything. It is both a biblical issue, and a humane issue.

It is sad that someone who considers themselves to be a christian looks at a little child as a choice and not a life. It is obvious that is your stance. No need to argue with you anymore about it. Instead, I will pray for you.

Save your prayers for someone who needs them, VB. I have stated repeatedly that I am against abortion and would never counsel a woman to have one. I can not help it that people like you can not seem to wrap your narrow minds around the fact that I don't believe I have the right to force my religious beliefs on other people. You think the answer lies in the government forcing women to have children against their will. What you don't realize is that, if the government can force a woman to have a child it can also force a woman not to have a child. I just assume the government not have any more control over people than it already has.

[vrblackwell]

Save your prayers for someone who needs them, VB. I have stated repeatedly that I am against abortion and would never counsel a woman to have one. I can not help it that people like you can not seem to wrap your narrow minds around the fact that I don't believe I have the right to force my religious beliefs on other people. You think the answer lies in the government forcing women to have children against their will. What you don't realize is that, if the government can force a woman to have a child it can also force a woman not to have a child. I just assume the government not have any more control over people than it already has.

You apparently do not have a correct concept of abortion for convience sake.

Do you not think that we should have a law against murder? Do you think a woman who has a 10 year old kid should be able to kill that kid if she decides she no longer wants it?

[Rico]

You apparently do not have a correct concept of abortion for convience sake.

Do you not think that we should have a law against murder? Do you think a woman who has a 10 year old kid should be able to kill that kid if she decides she no longer wants it?

VB, there is a big difference between a living breathing human and a developing one. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

[tstew]

You apparently do not have a correct concept of abortion for convience sake.

Do you not think that we should have a law against murder? Do you think a woman who has a 10 year old kid should be able to kill that kid if she decides she no longer wants it?

Vr, what would be your response (your direct level of action and outrage), if you voted for politicians for decades in large part due to the fact that they were against killing 10 year old kids, then once they got into office on the back of that support, they did not stop the murders of those kids. What if in the year 2003 alone (well into the Presidency of such a politician and at a time when those politicians controlled the Hill and the majority of the Appointees to the Supreme Court), there were 854,122 documented cases of the killing of 10 year olds.
How many years would you blindly continue to support the patronizing lip-service that those politicians paid to such an atrocity. How long would you bash people who did not blindly support those politicians. How long could you claim some sort of spiritual or moral high ground because you do.
I am sick and tired of the abortion issue becoming just a box that people and politicians check off and feel sanctimonious about.

[Rico]

Vr, what would be your response (your direct level of action and outrage), if you voted for politicians for decades in large part due to the fact that they were against killing 10 year old kids, then once they got into office on the back of that support, they did not stop the murders of those kids. What if in the year 2003 alone (well into the Presidency of such a politician and at a time when those politicians controlled the Hill and the majority of the Appointees to the Supreme Court), there were 854,122 documented cases of the killing of 10 year olds.
How many years would you blindly continue to support the patronizing lip-service that those politicians paid to such an atrocity. How long would you bash people who did not blindly support those politicians. How long could you claim some sort of spiritual or moral high ground because you do.
I am sick and tired of the abortion issue becoming just a box that people and politicians check off and feel sanctimonious about.

Stew, it's just a way to get votes.

[tstew]

Stew, it's just a way to get votes.

And by now, I think it should be abundantly obvious.

[vrblackwell]

Vr, what would be your response (your direct level of action and outrage), if you voted for politicians for decades in large part due to the fact that they were against killing 10 year old kids, then once they got into office on the back of that support, they did not stop the murders of those kids. What if in the year 2003 alone (well into the Presidency of such a politician and at a time when those politicians controlled the Hill and the majority of the Appointees to the Supreme Court), there were 854,122 documented cases of the killing of 10 year olds.
How many years would you blindly continue to support the patronizing lip-service that those politicians paid to such an atrocity. How long would you bash people who did not blindly support those politicians. How long could you claim some sort of spiritual or moral high ground because you do.
I am sick and tired of the abortion issue becoming just a box that people and politicians check off and feel sanctimonious about.

I know the political process very well. It was the supreme court who decided to legislate from the bench and make abortion legal.

I also know that some of those Supreme Court justices were appointed by republicans, Reagan and Bush. I also know that before they were nominated to the court they opposed abortion. They changed their opinion after being appointed. Therefore, Reagan and Bush thought they were appointing people who opposed abortion.

I also know that republicans controlled the house and Senate for a time. However, at no time did they have enough majority to make legislation that would outlaw abortion.

However, they did pass many bills that made it more difficult to for doctors to perform abortions and for public funds to finance abortion.

I believe you must take each individual and look at their voting record. They can say what they want, but the vote does not lie.

therefore it should be a big issue in any election for a christian in choosing who to vote for.

[tstew]

I know the political process very well. It was the supreme court who decided to legislate from the bench and make abortion legal.

I also know that some of those Supreme Court justices were appointed by republicans, Reagan and Bush. I also know that before they were nominated to the court they opposed abortion. They changed their opinion after being appointed. Therefore, Reagan and Bush thought they were appointing people who opposed abortion.

I also know that republicans controlled the house and Senate for a time. However, at no time did they have enough majority to make legislation that would outlaw abortion.

However, they did pass many bills that made it more difficult to for doctors to perform abortions and for public funds to finance abortion.

I believe you must take each individual and look at their voting record. They can say what they want, but the vote does not lie.

therefore it should be a big issue in any election for a christian in choosing who to vote for.

Okay, I guess here's to hoping that McCain will stop the nearly 1 million annual abortions.

[tstew]

I know the political process very well. It was the supreme court who decided to legislate from the bench and make abortion legal.

I also know that some of those Supreme Court justices were appointed by republicans, Reagan and Bush. I also know that before they were nominated to the court they opposed abortion. They changed their opinion after being appointed. Therefore, Reagan and Bush thought they were appointing people who opposed abortion.

I also know that republicans controlled the house and Senate for a time. However, at no time did they have enough majority to make legislation that would outlaw abortion.

However, they did pass many bills that made it more difficult to for doctors to perform abortions and for public funds to finance abortion.

I believe you must take each individual and look at their voting record. They can say what they want, but the vote does not lie.

therefore it should be a big issue in any election for a christian in choosing who to vote for.

And you still didn't address the question as to what your level of outrage or what actions you would take if indeed there were ten year olds being killed. Would you actually be this patient and understanding of the complexities and difficulties in stopping the nearly 1 million murders.

[Rico]

Wasn't Roe V Wade decided before Reagan took office?