Sarah palin baptized in jesus name!!!!

[NLYP]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1766638341

[Nahum]

Listen carefully around the 2 minute mark of the video.

[Jack Shephard]

I watched it...did she say she was baptized in Jesus name or just the man saying it? I heard him say it but didn't hear her say it

[NLYP]

Listen at 2:00 Minutes

[MrsMcD]

Does the AOG baptize in Jesus name?

[NLYP]

I watched it...did she say she was baptized in Jesus name or just the man saying it? I heard him say it but didn't hear her say it

Duh... what kind of question is that???

Listen to it...he said it...the Pastor that did it was sitting right there.

[StillStanding]

Interesting! Are there still AOG churches that baptize in Jesus name?

[Nahum]

But what did the pastor mean by it?

Most people who baptize in the titles believe they are baptizing in the name of Jesus.

[NLYP]

Does the AOG baptize in Jesus name?

Many of them do....her Pastor started that church in the 50's...

WOW listen to the prayer at 12:30

[rgcraig]

But, she cuts her hair.

[AbundantGrace]

Nice Thread!:nobodycares:

[StillStanding]

But, she cuts her hair.
Trims, rgcraig, trims!!

She does wear a skirt or dress in every picture or video that I've seen. Does she even wear pants?

[MrsMcD]

But, she cuts her hair.

:stirpot:D

[rgcraig]

"nothing freaks her out about the worship service" her reply when someone told her that some might raise their hands in a church she was visting.

[ManOfWord]

She's just what we need and I think she is looking "our way!" :D

[rgcraig]

Many of them do....her Pastor started that church in the 50's...

WOW listen to the prayer at 12:30
Now, really.

[Ferd]

But, she cuts her hair.

and puts lipstick on bulldogs...Apostolics dont do that.

[Glenda B]

She's just what we need and I think she is looking "our way!" :D


She's looking your way at what, those knobby knees? :ursofunny

[tamor]

But, she cuts her hair.

And she wears lipstick!!!

[SDG]

But what did the pastor mean by it?

Most people who baptize in the titles believe they are baptizing in the name of Jesus.

So now verbalizing it is not enough for the baptizer but his intent to save too ???... or his understanding of ????....

Baptism does not hang on the baptizers words or intents.

Some are wrapped up in the Gospel of Understanding.

[NLYP]

But, she cuts her hair.

Renda...have I ever cared about that?:snapout

[tamor]

and puts lipstick on bulldogs...Apostolics dont do that.


LOL! I thought of you last night when she made the remark about her opponent "parting the waters". I laughed and thought, "No, no. That's Ferd's job"!!!! :toofunny :toofunny

[SDG]

Renda...have I ever cared about that?:snapout

You should ... you sign an affirmation statement don't you?

[NLYP]

Trims, rgcraig, trims!!

She does wear a skirt or dress in every picture or video that I've seen. Does she even wear pants?

NO! She said Pants suits were reflective of a feminist agenda.

GOOD FOR HER!

[NLYP]

and puts lipstick on bulldogs...Apostolics dont do that.

Does WWOD own a bulldog?


oook....im gonna slip out now...ROFLLLL

[rgcraig]

Renda...have I ever cared about that?:snapout

Dork, I was being facetious!

[NLYP]

So now verbalizing it is not enough for the baptizer but his intent to save too ???... or his understanding of ????....

Baptism does not hang on the baptizers words or intents.

Some are wrapped up in the Gospel of Understanding.

Get your Bible and Get saved Dan....

Im going back to where its safe....
Bye yall...:tease

[MissBrattified]

I think its a stretch to assume she was baptized in Jesus' name in the traditionally Apostolic sense, e.g., "In the name of Jesus Christ" being called over her by the minister, as opposed to, "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

I'm not saying it was one way or the other, but many people use the term, "In Jesus' name" referentially. In practice, they still use the titles.

[rgcraig]

Does WWOD own a bulldog?


oook....im gonna slip out now...ROFLLLL

You're bad!

[NLYP]

You should ... you sign an affirmation statement don't you?

Get off me Daniel...Im not in the mood for your proverbial ..........

[SDG]

Get your Bible and Get saved Dan....

Im going back to where its safe....
Bye yall...:tease

Jesus Saves, Daniel.

Not your loyalty to institution.

[SDG]

Get off me Daniel...Im not in the mood for your proverbial ..........

Finish the statement, Daniel. Why mince words if you mean them? That's never stopped you in the past.

[tamor]

Get your Bible and Get saved Dan....

Im going back to where its safe....
Bye yall...:tease


Chicken!! You know you love it here!! :toofunny

[SDG]

I think its a stretch to assume she was baptized in Jesus' name in the traditionally Apostolic sense, e.g., "In the name of Jesus Christ" being called over her by the minister, as opposed to, "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

I'm not saying it was one way or the other, but many people use the term, "In Jesus' name" referentially. In practice, they still use the titles.

So repenting, being baptized in Jesus name and speaking in tongues will not result in regeneration ... or the New Birth ... but I must have full understanding to be born again.

3 steps plus ....

[Thumper]

In spite of the words spoken at the beginning of the clip, I still doubt very much that she was in fact baptized in Jesus name. Contrary to what most would like to believe That is a really big deal in the AoG. I'm sure that all the naysayers will start to spout anecdotal evidence about this AoG church they know or that AoG church that baptizes in Jesus name but usually when you chase down the truth of it we discover that it was just a mirage and they actually baptize in FSHG. The AoG firmly denounced Jesus name baptism and believe me I say that they aren't about to change that anytime soon. The only people who believe that are the ones intent on trying to gain affirmation by living vicariously through the lives of others.

Give me 5 bucks for every "he's looking our way..." "They believe almost like us..." thread Ive read on this forum and all its previous incarnations and I could probably retire the national debt of most small third world countries.

[rgcraig]

Get your Bible and Get saved Dan....

Im going back to where its safe....
Bye yall...:tease
:bigbaby

[SDG]

In spite of the words spoken at the beginning of the clip, I still doubt very much that she was in fact baptized in Jesus name. Contrary to what most would like to believe That is a really big deal in the AoG. I'm sure that all the naysayers will start to spout anecdotal evidence about this AoG church they know or that AoG church that baptizes in Jesus name but usually when you chase down the truth of it we discover that it was just a mirage and they actually baptize in FSHG. The AoG firmly denounced Jesus name baptism and believe me I say that they aren't about to change that anytime soon. The only people who believe that are the ones intent on trying to gain affirmation by living vicariously through the lives of others.

Give me 5 bucks for every "he's looking our way..." "They believe almost like us..." thread Ive read on this forum and all its previous incarnations and I could probably retire the national debt of most small third world countries.

The hatred towards Trinnies surfaces again .... being baptized in Jesus name now is qualified.

[NLYP]

Finish the statement, Daniel. Why mince words if you mean them? That's never stopped you in the past.

I DID....Admin deleted it.......its one letter away from rap.

[tamor]

:bigbaby

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[rgcraig]

In spite of the words spoken at the beginning of the clip, I still doubt very much that she was in fact baptized in Jesus name. Contrary to what most would like to believe That is a really big deal in the AoG. I'm sure that all the naysayers will start to spout anecdotal evidence about this AoG church they know or that AoG church that baptizes in Jesus name but usually when you chase down the truth of it we discover that it was just a mirage and they actually baptize in FSHG. The AoG firmly denounced Jesus name baptism and believe me I say that they aren't about to change that anytime soon. The only people who believe that are the ones intent on trying to gain affirmation by living vicariously through the lives of others.

Give me 5 bucks for every "he's looking our way..." "They believe almost like us..." thread Ive read on this forum and all its previous incarnations and I could probably retire the national debt of most small third world countries.I agree with you Thumper!

[MissBrattified]

So repenting, being baptized in Jesus name and speaking in tongues will not result in regeneration ... or the New Birth ... but I must have full understanding to be born again.

3 steps plus ....

This statement has ZERO to do with my comment. :coffee2

[SDG]

I DID....Admin deleted it.......its one letter away from rap.
Wrap?

[rgcraig]

I DID....Admin deleted it.......its one letter away from rap.

Nope, admin didn't delete it - the system does that.

[tamor]

I DID....Admin deleted it.......its one letter away from rap.

Admin probably didn't delete it if that's the word you typed. I think the it is set up to do the ..... instead of certain words. I have seen that happen with mine as soon as I posted or PM'd so I just edit and type a new word and it takes!

[tamor]

Nope, admin didn't delete it - the system does that.

Ha, you beat me!!

[MissBrattified]

The hatred towards Trinnies surfaces again .... being baptized in Jesus name now is qualified.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Everyone knows that we are speaking of baptism in Jesus' name in the traditional Apostolic sense of the term. Therefore, I highly doubt that Sarah Palin was baptized "in Jesus' name" in an AoG church. I could be wrong, though.

[SDG]

Daniel has a potty mouth.

[tamor]

Wrap?

Nut! You are such an instigator!! :toofunny

[U376977]

I think its a stretch to assume she was baptized in Jesus' name in the traditionally Apostolic sense, e.g., "In the name of Jesus Christ" being called over her by the minister, as opposed to, "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

I'm not saying it was one way or the other, but many people use the term, "In Jesus' name" referentially. In practice, they still use the titles.

Right...if the "founding Pastor" did baptize in Jesus name, in our sense of the word, he would have probably been kicked out of the AG. I am sure they are titles only.

[mizpeh]

From their website:

WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances (1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.

http://wasillaag.org/index.php?s=au&nid=3734

[Thumper]

The hatred towards Trinnies surfaces again .... being baptized in Jesus name now is qualified.

There is no hatred in that statement at all Dan. I don't hate trinitarians at all Dan. I have many very dearly loved family members who are such. I'm assuming of course your pegorative use of the term "trinnie" is meant to be understood as those who espousetrinitarian doctrine.

I'm sure you would like to spin doctor it that way but no soap buddy. I'm simply stating a fact that the AoG is not tolerant of anyone who baptizes in Jesus name.

[SDG]

You're being deliberately obtuse. Everyone knows that we are speaking of baptism in Jesus' name in the traditional Apostolic sense of the term. Therefore, I highly doubt that Sarah Palin was baptized "in Jesus' name" in an AoG church. I could be wrong, though.

I'm sorry, Mrs. B. But in every discussion I heard growing up about the proper formula ... especially targeting Trinnies... getting the formula incorrect meant you are "just getting wet".

Apparently, some OPs have polarized and separated themselves so much from the Body ... that now full understanding has been added to the New Birth message.

[SDG]

There is no hatred in that statement at all Dan. I don't hate trinitarians at all Dan. I have many very dearly loved family members who are such. I'm assuming of course your pegorative use of the term "trinnie" is meant to be understood as those who espousetrinitarian doctrine.

I'm sure you would like to spin doctor it that way but no soap buddy. I'm simply stating a fact that the AoG is not tolerant of anyone who baptizes in Jesus name.

That's odd ... some still do ....

[Thumper]

I agree with you Thumper!

was it painful

:ursofunny

[mizpeh]

There is no hatred in that statement at all Dan. I don't hate trinitarians at all Dan. I have many very dearly loved family members who are such. I'm assuming of course your pegorative use of the term "trinnie" is meant to be understood as those who espousetrinitarian doctrine.

I'm sure you would like to spin doctor it that way but no soap buddy. I'm simply stating a fact that the AoG is not tolerant of anyone who baptizes in Jesus name.

I didnt read any hatred in your statement either. Dan was reading too much into what you said.

[Thumper]

That's odd ... some still do ....

you don't know what you are talking about DA,

The AoG is completely intolerant of Jesus name baptism and will without hesitation take diciplinary action against any minister who violates this edict.

[SDG]

I didnt read any hatred in your statement either. Dan was reading too much into what you said.

100 years of polarization .... can't be ignored ...

For some a Trinnie ... flat out can't be born again ... saved ...

Even if they obey Acts 2:38 ....

[ManOfWord]

This is incredible! I just watched the whole thing and to think that we could have a spirit filled, baptized in Jesus' name woman who REALLY loves God and walks her talk, as VP and maybe even President some day gives me glory bumps! :D

[ManOfWord]

you don't know what you are talking about DA,

The AoG is completely intolerant of Jesus name baptism and will without hesitation take diciplinary action against any minister who violates this edict.


This is not true across the board. Estimates are as high as 25% of AOG pastors baptize in Jesus' name. They don't make it an issue from what I know. I am not aware of any edict, and if there was one, they're not following it. :D

[mizpeh]

100 years of polarization .... can't be ignored ...

For some a Trinnie ... flat out can't be born again ... saved ...

Even if they obey Acts 2:38 ....

Dan, Thumper doesn't have the same agenda you do. He was making a statement not a judgement upon all Trinitarians.

[Thumper]

100 years of polarization .... can't be ignored ...

For some a Trinnie ... flat out can't be born again ... saved ...

Even if they obey Acts 2:38 ....

You ability obfusocate is to be applauded. Try to stay on topic please. Have you ever tried ridlin. The subject is Gov. Palin and the likelyhood of here being baptized in Jesus name in an AoG church.

[Ferd]

I'm sorry, Mrs. B. But in everyi discussion I heard about the proper formula ... especially targeting Trinnies getting the formula incorrect meant you are "just getting wet".

Apparently, some OPs have polarized and separated themselves so much from the Body ... that now full understanding has been added to the New Birth message.

once again OPs are the bad guys.


here we go with DanAs agenda. we cant be part of the body until we acknowlege that there is no difference between them and us, AND until OPs decide to be just like them.

DanA, I honestly feel sorry for you.

[StillStanding]

Some folks here would complain if Tommy Tenney or Randy Phillips were chosen as the VP candidate! "They're not TRUE Apostolics" would be the cry.

[SDG]

You ability obfusocate is to be applauded. Try to stay on topic please. Have you ever tried ridlin. The subject is Gov. Palin and the likelyhood of here being baptized in Jesus name in an AoG church.

Thumper ... the issue has been brought whether she was authentically baptized in Jesus name ... would you like me to quote the tangents that apply to this discussion .... starting with PP????

[Ferd]

You ability obfusocate is to be applauded. Try to stay on topic please. Have you ever tried ridlin. The subject is Gov. Palin and the likelyhood of here being baptized in Jesus name in an AoG church.
Thumper, DanA doesnt need ritilin. he is lazer focused on single thing.

that OPs have been wrong and the only way to right it, is for us to appologize and recognize that we have been wrong, then join mainstreme christianity.

it is his only subject.

[Ferd]

Some folks here would complain if Tommy Tenney or Randy Phillips were chosen as the VP candidate! "They're not TRUE Apostolics" would be the cry.

If they were as awesome as Palin I would be quite happy and would vote for them.


that doesnt mean I think their theology is right.

[Thumper]

This is not true across the board. Estimates are as high as 25% of AOG pastors baptize in Jesus' name. They don't make it an issue from what I know. I am not aware of any edict, and if there was one, they're not following it. :D


25% That is hillarious. Believe me they make an issue of it.

How many years have you spent in the AoG.

I was there for 23 with family going back as far as can be traced in the AoG.

I currently have family that are regional and national officials others are seminary trained and active full time pastors. As well , a the host of retired ministers that populate my annual summer family barbecue.

Give me the name of these alleged ones who bapitze in Jesus name and I'll give the name to my uncle who will ensure that they are drummed out of whatever district they are in:ursofunny

[Jack Shephard]

you don't know what you are talking about DA,

The AoG is completely intolerant of Jesus name baptism and will without hesitation take diciplinary action against any minister who violates this edict.

I actually have seen a video with a man baptizing someone in the titles and says in name of Jesus/Jeshua. This man is AoG.

[tamor]

You ability obfusocate is to be applauded. Try to stay on topic please. Have you ever tried ridlin.

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny
:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[Thumper]

Some folks here would complain if Tommy Tenney or Randy Phillips were chosen as the VP candidate! "They're not TRUE Apostolics" would be the cry.


Whether national leaders are apostolic or not is of little consequence to me. I have made it this far in life without it ever happening and will probably make it all the way to the rapture without it. Sarah seems like a great choice for VP.

:)

[Sherri]

25% That is hillarious. Believe me they make an issue of it.

How many years have you spent in the AoG.

I was there for 23 with family going back as far as can be traced in the AoG.

I currently have family that are regional and national officials others are seminary trained and active full time pastors. As well , a the host of retired ministers that populate my annual summer family barbecue.

Give me the name of these alleged ones who bapitze in Jesus name and I'll give the name to my uncle who will ensure that they are drummed out of whatever district they are in:ursofunny

I know AG pastors (friends) who baptize in Jesus' name. They said it's left up to the pastor.

[mizpeh]

It's easy enough to call the church in Wasilla and ask how they baptize but I don't have the desire.

[mizpeh]

I know AG pastors (friends) who baptize in Jesus' name. They said it's left up to the pastor.
Liberals! :ursofunny

[Ferd]

It's easy enough to call the church in Wasilla and ask how they baptize but I don't have the desire.

its been done. (allegedly... I believe it but cannot verify, but that was what was stated on a different forum)
answer:
they now baptize in the trinity but the older pastor might have done things differently...

[Thumper]

Thumper ... the issue has been brought whether she was authentically baptized in Jesus name ... would you like me to quote the tangents that apply to this discussion .... starting with PP????


As this is a OP forum some assuptions are natural and in order. When we refer to baptism in Jesus name we (that being those of us, who would be catorgised as OP) assume the baptizer actually speaks words that are literally "In Jesus name"

Any tangent that have been applied to the subject are simply the result of you obfusocation. :)

[Thumper]

I actually have seen a video with a man baptizing someone in the titles and says in name of Jesus/Jeshua. This man is AoG.As I said before, I'm sure some that there will be some anecdotal evidence to the contrary. But 99% of the time it not so.

[SDG]

once again OPs are the bad guys.


here we go with DanAs agenda. we cant be part of the body until we acknowlege that there is no difference between them and us, AND until OPs decide to be just like them.

DanA, I honestly feel sorry for you.

I feel sorrier for your agenda to disfellowship and exclude.

My heart bleeds for you.

[SDG]

As this is a OP forum some assuptions are natural and in order. When we refer to baptism in Jesus name we (that being those of us, who would be catorgised as OP) assume the baptizer actually speaks words that are literally "In Jesus name"

Any tangent that have been applied to the subject are simply the result of you obfusocation. :)

Do you have problems walking and chewing gum simultaneously, too?

[Thumper]

I know AG pastors (friends) who baptize in Jesus' name. They said it's left up to the pastor.

It is not left up to the Pastor I can assure you. It is a firmly established point of doctrine and to do contrarywise would violate their core beliefs. I can assure you that it is not a negotiable subject. I have no idea why your friends would suggest otherwise.

[MissBrattified]

What is it with you, Daniel? Sometimes you show up as a nice guy, and other times you come on here like a hateful harpy. Consistency would be great. No one on this thread has been hateful towards trinitarians.

I'm just pointing out that if NYLP is going to claim she is baptized in Jesus' name, then he needs to clarify it if he means it only in a general sense, as opposed to the traditional Apostolic mode which has already been defined and is understood by every single person reading this thread.

Otherwise, if NYLP is going to claim SP is baptized in Jesus' name, then he must also apply that claim to all the other AoG people who have been baptized the in the same manner.

[SDG]

It is not left up to the Pastor I can assure you. It is a firmly established point of doctrine and to do contrarywise would violate their core beliefs. I can assure you that it is not a negotiable subject. I have no idea why your friends would suggest otherwise.

Thumper ... thinks you are lying, Sherri. You too, MOW

[Thumper]

Do you have problems walking and chewing gum simultaneously, too?

Not at all. If you would like to discuss a different subject by all means start a new thread.

[rgcraig]

Dear lord - - - I honestly believe if Jesus Christ himself posted here there would be folks that would argue with him!

[SDG]

Not at all. If you would like to discuss a different subject by all means start a new thread.

Maybe ... I won't

[Rhoni]

Interesting! Are there still AOG churches that baptize in Jesus name?

The one I attended did. :)

[mizpeh]

thumper ... Thinks you are lying, sherri. You too, mow

oh my goodness!!!!!

[SDG]

The one I attended did. :)

I assure you, Thumper, thinks you're wrong.

[MissBrattified]

I don't think Sherri and MOW are lying; they have their own experiences to rely upon.

In my personal experience, most AoG's do not use the words "In Jesus' name" when they baptize, but rather, "In the name of the Father, Son Holy Ghost." Some of them add "which is Jesus" to the end. My father-in-law is a staunch trinitarian and Assembly of God minister, and he is extremely dogmatic in his beliefs, and also quite concerned with terminology. (As many OP's are also.)

I DO know some AoG's who baptize in the name of Jesus, and I know of two churches in particular who have Apostolics on their staff. (teaching positions)

[Thumper]

Thumper ... thinks you are lying, Sherri. You too, MOW


Hog wash. Again you attempt to divert the attention away from the subject at hand. I'm not sure why that is but I'm sure that you have a reason. I have never said that they are lying why you would like make them believe that is beyond but again, I'm sure that you have a reason.

For those who are keeping score I believe that Sherri and MOW have been misinformed. :)

[Thumper]

Dear lord - - - I honestly believe if Jesus Christ himself posted here there would be folks that would argue with him!
Of that I have no doubt.

[mizpeh]

Hog wash. Again you attempt to divert the attention away from the subject at hand. I'm not sure why that is but I'm sure that you have a reason. I have never said that they are lying why you would like make them believe that is beyond but again, I'm sure that you have a reason.

For those who are keeping score I believe that Sherri and MOW have been misinformed. :)

Not all ministers tow the line of the AS in the UPC. What makes you so certain there aren't AoG ministers who may not tow the baptismal line?

[Thumper]

I assure you, Thumper, thinks you're wrong.

Dan,

As you have no interest in the discussion at hand and are intent on making this thread about me I will make this my last post.

Hasta la vista

[Thumper]

Not all ministers tow the line of the AS in the UPC. What makes you so certain there aren't AoG ministers who may not tow the baptismal line?


I'm sure that that is the case. However, they would a statistically insignificant number.

[Thumper]

Now I'm out for sure

See ya

[Nahum]

This thread is funny, in a sick kind of way.

First of all, I highly doubt she was baptized "in Jesus' name." I hope she was, but I doubt it. Trinitarians are great at saying the name of Jesus in everything but baptism.

Second, I have never understood Oneness Pentecostal's need for affirmation from celebrities. I've heard all sorts of completely untruthful hogwash about folks who are "supposedly" Jesus Name baptized, the greatest example being Elvis.

None of it is every provable, because those people will never admit to the experience, which makes me think...hmm....it never happened.

Daniel, I love ya man, but you're a little loopy here. You're coming off a little too strong and completely nonsensical.

Dude, there are MAJOR differences between AOG and Oneness baptismal practices. Quit trying to ignore 100 years of history. There is no hybridization here.

Good gravy.

[Nahum]

Agenda, agenda, agenda.

[SDG]

100 years of polarization .... can't be ignored ...

For some, a Trinnie ... flat out can't be born again ... saved ...

Even if they obey Acts 2:38 ....

I stand by this strong loopy statement.

[mizpeh]

I stand by this strong loopy statement.

Then start another thread with your loopy statement! It doesn't belong, IMO, on this one. :whistle

[Nahum]

I stand by this strong loopy statement.

Yes, and we can't determine which of you is more loopy.

[tamor]

Yes, and we can't determine which of you is more loopy.

Well, they do share the same name......:dunno

[jlogan]

This is incredible! I just watched the whole thing and to think that we could have a spirit filled, baptized in Jesus' name woman who REALLY loves God and walks her talk, as VP and maybe even President some day gives me glory bumps! :D

Those are not glory bumps. Your catching a chill because you are wearing shorts.
:snapout
JL

[Steve Epley]

This thread is funny, in a sick kind of way.

First of all, I highly doubt she was baptized "in Jesus' name." I hope she was, but I doubt it. Trinitarians are great at saying the name of Jesus in everything but baptism.

Second, I have never understood Oneness Pentecostal's need for affirmation from celebrities. I've heard all sorts of completely untruthful hogwash about folks who are "supposedly" Jesus Name baptized, the greatest example being Elvis.

None of it is every provable, because those people will never admit to the experience, which makes me think...hmm....it never happened.

Daniel, I love ya man, but you're a little loopy here. You're coming off a little too strong and completely nonsensical.

Dude, there are MAJOR differences between AOG and Oneness baptismal practices. Quit trying to ignore 100 years of history. There is no hybridization here.

Good gravy.

Thank you PP. Obama stopped by Bishop Brazier's in Chicago maybe he was baptized while there? McCain says he agrees with Palin so he has been baptised in Jesus Name. The list goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the words of the late Paul Gregory "Always a whale never a minnow.":whistle

[TRFrance]

In spite of the words spoken at the beginning of the clip, I still doubt very much that she was in fact baptized in Jesus name. Contrary to what most would like to believe That is a really big deal in the AoG. I'm sure that all the naysayers will start to spout anecdotal evidence about this AoG church they know or that AoG church that baptizes in Jesus name but usually when you chase down the truth of it we discover that it was just a mirage and they actually baptize in FSHG. The AoG firmly denounced Jesus name baptism and believe me I say that they aren't about to change that anytime soon. The only people who believe that are the ones intent on trying to gain affirmation by living vicariously through the lives of others.

Give me 5 bucks for every "he's looking our way..." "They believe almost like us..." thread Ive read on this forum and all its previous incarnations and I could probably retire the national debt of most small third world countries.
Well said Thumper.

The fact is, many if not most AG churches equate Jesus name baptism with the UPC and/or the Oneness movement in general... Therefore many of them refuse and reject Jesus name baptism in large part because they don't want to be baptized in a way that they associate with Oneness churches.

Is it possible she's baptized into the name of Jesus? It's possible, but it's hard to really conclude that from this video. If she is, I'm happy for her of course.

However, it's crazy to me that people want to make it sound like it's something that happens a lot in the AG denomination. When it does happen, its the exception, not the norm in the AG , especially since this is an issue many in the AG have fought hard against, dating back to the early 1900's.

[Jack Shephard]

Thank you PP. Obama stopped by Bishop Brazier's in Chicago maybe he was baptized while there? McCain says he agrees with Palin so he has been baptised in Jesus Name. The list goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the words of the late Paul Gregory "Always a whale never a minnow.":whistle

In the words of the great Ron Burgundy "That's just dumb!"

[Hoovie]

This thread demonstrates the ignorance of many...

Some think EVERYONE believes being baptised "in Jesus name" means involking at the moment of submersion...

...others accuse the announcer of being less than truthful in his declaration.

[mizpeh]

This thread demonstrates the ignorance of many...

Some think EVERYONE believes being baptised "in Jesus name" means involking at the moment of submersion...

...others accuse the announcer of being less than truthful in his declaration.

And some see a necessity when using the authority of the Lord to necessarily invoke His name. No name, no authority. :whistle

[Praxeas]

I had a friend raised in the AOG...both parents licensed...

When he was baptized he was given the option of Jesus name or the Triune formula and he chose jesus name

[rosebud]

The UPC, Apostolic "One God Believer's" are NOT the only one's who baptize in Jesus Name! I currently attend a church that is not UPC, Mark aka Thad calls it Charasmatic:aaa.........anyhew the pastor their baptizes in "Jesus Name"! In fact I kept missing the baptismal services and was really curious to know if they actually did baptize in Jesus Name and shortly there after the Pastor preached on the IMPORTANCE of being baptized in JESUS NAME! and then after he preached he proceeded to baptize about 7 new converts in Jesus Name! heard it with my own ears!!!:thumbsup

[mizpeh]

The UPC, Apostolic "One God Believer's" are NOT the only one's who baptize in Jesus Name! I currently attend a church that is not UPC, Mark aka Thad calls it Charasmatic:aaa.........anyhew the pastor their baptizes in "Jesus Name"! In fact I kept missing the baptismal services and was really curious to know if they actually did baptize in Jesus Name and shortly there after the Pastor preached on the IMPORTANCE of being baptized in JESUS NAME! and then after he preached he proceeded to baptize about 7 new converts in Jesus Name! heard it with my own ears!!!:thumbsup

Is your church Oneness Pentecostal?

[rosebud]

Yes they are oneness, the statement of faith is like a typical UPC statement of faith. My Pastor came out of the Free Methodist church. He received the Holy Ghost and felt there was more for him and he has continued on to where he is today. Does that answer your question?

[Scott Hutchinson]

See if a person is hungry for truth,no matter their background God will reveal Himself to them, God will make Himself known to those who will forsake the traditions of man,for the traditions of God.

[Carpenter]

You people... The pastor says she was baptized in the name of Jesus and you sit up in the cheap seats sending her to the hot place because of an insinuation, when we are on the precipice of having someone tied closely to the white house that can stand up for the Lord.

You people are unbelievable to me.

How many people in the Apostolic church are doing anything in the political arena to make a difference besides that one guy who was on the cover of the Herald one time.

Pastor Poster, you sound like such a whiner...

[Sandra]

you sorry people. The pastor says she was baptized in the name of jesus and you sit up in the cheap seats sending her to the hot place because of an insinuation, when we are on the precipice of having someone tied closely to the white house that can stand up for the lord.

You people are unbelievable to me.

How many people in the apostolic church are doing anything in the political arena to make a difference besides that one guy who was on the cover of the herald one time.

pastor poster, you sound like such a whiner...

i agree!!

[Sam]

I actually have seen a video with a man baptizing someone in the titles and says in name of Jesus/Jeshua. This man is AoG.

Yeah, but if you say "in Jesus' Name" and also mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, those F, S and HG words negate the name of Jesus.

[TalkLady]

Here is a link to Wasilla Assembly of God:

http://www.wasillaag.org/

What we Believe

16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God
These are nonnegotiable tenets of faith that all Assemblies of God churches adhere to. This list is derived from the official Statement of Fundamental Truths.

WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind.

WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).

WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.

WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through Salvation (accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness for sin). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances (1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.

WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is Speaking in Tongues, as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.

WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike.

WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ.

WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers the Church.

WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope.� When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. At that time many in the nation of Israel will recognize and accept Him as the Messiah, the Savior who died for them and all mankind.

WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire.

WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!'

Also, their official statement concerning "Gov. Palin"

Our Statement Concerning Governor Palin


August 30th, 2008





Governor Sarah Palin did attend Wasilla Assembly of God since the time she was a teen ager. She and her family were a part of the church up until 2002. Since that time she has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here. This June, the Governor spoke at the graduation service of our School of Ministry, Master’s Commission Wasilla Alaska.




We have had some inquires into Governor Palin’s beliefs. We do know that Gov Palin is a woman of integrity. She is a servant of the people, she is a strong leader. As for her personal beliefs, Governor Palin is well able to speak for herself on those issues.




As Alaskans we are excited about our Governor being selected as the nominee for Vice President. As residents of Wasilla, we are ecstatic about one of our own being thrust to the national forefront. However, as a church, it is not appropriate for us to endorse any one candidate over another. As believers, we are reminded in 1 Peter 2.13 that we are to submit to those in authority. 1 Timothy 2.1-2 tells us pray for those in authority. This we will do no matter who is elected. We wish the best to Governor Palin, and Senator McCain, as well as to Senator Obama and Senator Biden.


May God continue to bless America.

[U376977]

Yeah, but if you say "in Jesus' Name" and also mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, those F, S and HG words negate the name of Jesus.

What makes you say so?

[Sam]

What makes you say so?

I am just saying that because it's been argued on this forum before.

Some (I think even some in the UPC) say, "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Some say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name."

Some say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost which is Jesus."

There are some in Oneness Pentecost who say that saying something like that is wrong, that the baptism is not really valid because there was mention of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost words along with the name of Jesus.

Then there are other Apostolics that teach that if you mention the word "Lord" in baptism, like saying, "I baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ," it is wrong. Yet others say that all three words "Lord," "Jesus," and "Christ" must be mentioned or you are taking from the word of God.

50 years ago I was taught that the name of the Father is "Lord," the name of the Son is "Jesus" and the name of the Holy Ghost is "Christ" therefore the "full" name "Lord Jesus Christ" must be spoken.

Other Apostolics teach that if you use the three words "Lord Jesus Christ" you might just as well say "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" because "Lord Jesus Christ" is a trinitarian form of baptism.

Then of course there are Apostolics who say that the person has to be completely under water while the name is being said or the baptism is not valid.

Some of us Apostolics have just about gotten to the place where the "formula" for baptism is like a "magical formula" and if the words are not spoken in just the exactly right way the baptism is not considered valid.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, but if you say "in Jesus' Name" and also mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, those F, S and HG words negate the name of Jesus.

I have been told that too-

That if it was said during baptism, even though Jesus was included-they were to be baptized agian.

[Hoovie]

I have heard that it is common for for followers to be baptised in a leaders name...


Should I be baptised in the name of Palin?

[Michael The Disciple]

I liked the video. She seemed like a bold, commited disciple of Jesus. Perhaps her doctrinal understanding has not yet caught up with her apparent love for him. Reminds me of myself a while back.

For her to be standing there talking about prophetic revelations......and now very close to being vice President is amazing.

Here is why I am taking Gov. Palin's rise personally. From my Forum:

http://www.freeforum101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116&sid=aa79dd0af9f121d8a976046ec1e24c2a&mforum=inthelight

[mizpeh]

You people... The pastor says she was baptized in the name of Jesus and you sit up in the cheap seats sending her to the hot place because of an insinuation, when we are on the precipice of having someone tied closely to the white house that can stand up for the Lord.

You people are unbelievable to me.

How many people in the Apostolic church are doing anything in the political arena to make a difference besides that one guy who was on the cover of the Herald one time.

Pastor Poster, you sound like such a whiner...

I thought I read this whole thread, Who said SP was going to the hot place?

[mizpeh]

Yes they are oneness, the statement of faith is like a typical UPC statement of faith. My Pastor came out of the Free Methodist church. He received the Holy Ghost and felt there was more for him and he has continued on to where he is today. Does that answer your question?yes, there are many churches that are apostolic that aren't upc.

[timlan2057]

Oh good lord.

Without reading much of this thread at all, are people still doing this ridiculous stuff?

Bottom line: Sarah Palin is still 200 country miles from being "ole time pentecostal." She will NEVER be ole time pentecostal and probably has no idea what it is.

This is the same ridiculous - and yes I emphasize that word - stuff that N. A. Urshan and T. F. Tenney used to use at General Conferences and Louisiana Campmeetings to get the rubes to shouting - "so-and-so is looking our way!"

It's nothing but salve for a movement with a huge "inferiority complex" needing a ton of affirmation.

I've heard it all from 35 years or so ago when Mike Ditka was "looking our way."

I've got news for you: Mike Ditka or none of those others EVER became "ole time pentecostal" or even remotely close.

The closest? The "Siberian Seven" that Urshan trumpeted were "our people" were trinitarian pentecostal and had nothing to do with the UPC.

Funny - after two years at conferences and campmeetings of having "The Siberian Seven" crammed down our throats - when they GOT here, we heard kind of a hushed "they're happily attending one of our churches" and that was it and the case was closed and we never heard about it again.

Point was: they were never oneness pentecostal and certainly not caught up in the legalism to begin with.

Here's an idea for "ole time pentecost": instead of trying to identify celebrities with you who are not remotely connected with you - why don't you shed some of the legalism and ridiculous positions?

THEN - you might keep some of the people who came out from among you and made it big in the arts and entertainment.

THOSE folks you rip to shreds and say how of the devil they are.

THEN you turn around and try to claim some connection with celebrities like Palin.

It's trite to say, I know, but .... things that make you go "hmmmm" ...

[Rhoni]

Oh good lord.

Without reading much of this thread at all, are people still doing this ridiculous stuff?

Bottom line: Sarah Palin is still 200 country miles from being "ole time pentecostal." She will NEVER be ole time pentecostal and probably has no idea what it is.

This is the same ridiculous - and yes I emphasize that word - stuff that N. A. Urshan and T. F. Tenney used to use at General Conferences and Louisiana Campmeetings to get the rubes to shouting - "so-and-so is looking our way!"

It's nothing but salve for a movement with a huge "inferiority complex" needing a ton of affirmation.

I've heard it all from 35 years or so ago when Mike Ditka was "looking our way."

I've got news for you: Mike Ditka or none of those others EVER became "ole time pentecostal" or even remotely close.

The closest? The "Siberian Seven" that Urshan trumpeted were "our people" were trinitarian pentecostal and had nothing to do with the UPC.

Funny - after two years at conferences and campmeetings of having "The Siberian Seven" crammed down our throats - when they GOT here, we heard kind of a hushed "they're happily attending one of our churches" and that was it and the case was closed and we never heard about it again.

Point was: they were never oneness pentecostal and certainly not caught up in the legalism to begin with.

Here's an idea for "ole time pentecost": instead of trying to identify celebrities with you who are not remotely connected with you - why don't you shed some of the legalism and ridiculous positions?

THEN - you might keep some of the people who came out from among you and made it big in the arts and entertainment.

THOSE folks you rip to shreds and say how of the devil they are.

THEN you turn around and try to claim some connection with celebrities like Palin.

It's trite to say, I know, but .... things that make you go "hmmmm" ...

:friend There's our Tim...good post. It reminds me of the one I had published in Charisma...when they said with the new General Superintendent Haney...hey go read it..Tim you'd be impressed.

Blessings, Rhoni

[ManOfWord]

I have heard that it is common for for followers to be baptised in a leaders name...


Should I be baptised in the name of Palin?

It wasn't uncommon in Jesus' day for disciples to enter into the mikveh (baptism) and have the name of their teacher/Rabbi pronounced over them. This signified that the disciple was separating himself to his teacher. In those instances it had nothing to do with salvation. :D

[TCSQ]

FYI......

P.S.

I forgot about another trinitarian group in Mexico that is also ABSOLUTELY ADAMANT about the need for baptizing in the Name of Jesus Christ. The Glad Tidings churches of Mexico. Years ago I was working in San Diego in a restaraunt, and one of the cooks there was a most godly hispanic man, later I found out he was a product of the Glad Tidings churches of Mexico.

He was Holy Ghost filled I knew as he had been singing several songs there about the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I so badly wanted to share with him about water baptism in Jesus Name.

He was so good. Anyway, one night it happened that we had our break together, and he was sitting there with me and he said "I know you are a christian, but have you received the baptism of the Holy Ghost? I said "Oh yes!!! Isn't it wonderful?"

And then he said "There's MORE you know." I said "What more" And thats when he began to witness to me about water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins! At first I thought he was from the Apostolic Assemblies, when I asked him if that was so he got very flustered "No! Absolutely NO! They deny the trinity!" Well that was the first time I had EVER met a trinitarian Jesus Name person! I did NOT know they even existed at that point.

We became great friends and brothers and I was delighted to be able finally to bring him to the understanding of the Mighty God in Christ Jesus.

I was enthralled however with his being a trinitarian at that point yet being so strong on the neccessity of the name in water baptism.
He invited me to a play that his church there in San Diego was putting on The Old Azusa Street play! So I went . Restoration Temple was the churches name, it was pastored by a man and his wife originally from New Zealand who had been missionaries in India and while there they got the revelation of water baptism in Jesus name and incorporated it into their doctrine.
The church was amazing! I do have to say that. Incredibly they drew most of their booming membership from the professions (Doctors, Lawyers etc.) and that really showed in the flavour of the assembly.

I bought quite a bit of literature in their bookstore on the subject of water baptism. They view the command of Matthew 28:19 as we do.... a command calling for a conclusion, WHAT IS THE NAME? But they felt that it was a composite godhead name that the three members of the godhead are each reflected in LORD = The Father, Jesus =The Son , Christ =the Holy Ghost. To their thinking the only way you COULD baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost was to baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yet very clear to confirm their trinitarian view of God.

[Steve Epley]

FYI......

P.S.

I forgot about another trinitarian group in Mexico that is also ABSOLUTELY ADAMANT about the need for baptizing in the Name of Jesus Christ. The Glad Tidings churches of Mexico. Years ago I was working in San Diego in a restaraunt, and one of the cooks there was a most godly hispanic man, later I found out he was a product of the Glad Tidings churches of Mexico.

He was Holy Ghost filled I knew as he had been singing several songs there about the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I so badly wanted to share with him about water baptism in Jesus Name.

He was so good. Anyway, one night it happened that we had our break together, and he was sitting there with me and he said "I know you are a christian, but have you received the baptism of the Holy Ghost? I said "Oh yes!!! Isn't it wonderful?"

And then he said "There's MORE you know." I said "What more" And thats when he began to witness to me about water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins! At first I thought he was from the Apostolic Assemblies, when I asked him if that was so he got very flustered "No! Absolutely NO! They deny the trinity!" Well that was the first time I had EVER met a trinitarian Jesus Name person! I did NOT know they even existed at that point.

We became great friends and brothers and I was delighted to be able finally to bring him to the understanding of the Mighty God in Christ Jesus.

I was enthralled however with his being a trinitarian at that point yet being so strong on the neccessity of the name in water baptism.
He invited me to a play that his church there in San Diego was putting on The Old Azusa Street play! So I went . Restoration Temple was the churches name, it was pastored by a man and his wife originally from New Zealand who had been missionaries in India and while there they got the revelation of water baptism in Jesus name and incorporated it into their doctrine.
The church was amazing! I do have to say that. Incredibly they drew most of their booming membership from the professions (Doctors, Lawyers etc.) and that really showed in the flavour of the assembly.

I bought quite a bit of literature in their bookstore on the subject of water baptism. They view the command of Matthew 28:19 as we do.... a command calling for a conclusion, WHAT IS THE NAME? But they felt that it was a composite godhead name that the three members of the godhead are each reflected in LORD = The Father, Jesus =The Son , Christ =the Holy Ghost. To their thinking the only way you COULD baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost was to baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yet very clear to confirm their trinitarian view of God.

Kevin Conner an author of several books is from New Zealand and is a teacher among a group. His book on the name of God he believes in the Trinity but believes in baptism in Jesus Name the book is very good. Also he has a book on the Book of Acts which teaches the same.

[Carpenter]

I thought I read this whole thread, Who said SP was going to the hot place?Are you or PP saying she is saved and/or was baptized correct despite any lack of misunderstanding? Cmon man I have been around long enough to recognize when someone says someone is going to hell without really saying it. Does anyone have the courage to give their opinion of her salvation? Are you rejecting her and giving Obama your support because despite her pastor saying she was baptized in Jesus name, they really meant the triune baptism?

[Brad Murphy]

In this case the logic is that it is not the words that are spoken (which did reference Jesus name), it is what they were thinking when they said them...

yet in other cases, they claim that the wrong words are spoken (and disregard whatever the person may have been thinking when they said them).

[MissBrattified]

...THEN - you might keep some of the people who came out from among you and made it big in the arts and entertainment.

THOSE folks you rip to shreds and say how of the devil they are.

THEN you turn around and try to claim some connection with celebrities like Palin.

It's trite to say, I know, but .... things that make you go "hmmmm" ...

This is kind of what I was TRYING to point out...NYLP is trying to say that SP is Apostolic, basically, based on being baptized in Jesus' name, and when he says "baptized in Jesus' name", he is implying the traditional Apostolic understanding of the term. I seriously DOUBT that is the case here, and I think NYLP knows it probably isn't the case, ergo, he should quit trying to "claim some connection with celebrities like Palin." It's dishonest.

The argument is about whether or not she was baptized in "Jesus' name" according to the traditional Apostolic definition. I think NYLP is stretching the truth, at the very least, and it's obvious. :rolleyes2

[Sherri]

This is kind of what I was TRYING to point out...NYLP is trying to say that SP is Apostolic, basically, based on being baptized in Jesus' name, and when he says "baptized in Jesus' name", he is implying the traditional Apostolic understanding of the term. I seriously DOUBT that is the case here, and I think NYLP knows it probably isn't the case, ergo, he should quit trying to "claim some connection with celebrities like Palin." It's dishonest.

The argument is about whether or not she was baptized in "Jesus' name" according to the traditional Apostolic definition. I think NYLP is stretching the truth, at the very least, and it's obvious. :rolleyes2
Maybe she is; maybe she isn't. That's between her and God, I guess. BUT, the video definitelys says baptized in Jesus' name. Why does everyone think that's so unbelievable? I don't mean to say that she's becoming "apostolic" in the UPC sense of the word. Just that she probably really was baptized in Jesus' name. :whistle

[MissBrattified]

Maybe she is; maybe she isn't. That's between her and God, I guess. BUT, the video definitelys says baptized in Jesus' name. Why does everyone think that's so unbelievable? I don't mean to say that she's becoming "apostolic" in the UPC sense of the word. Just that she probably really was baptized in Jesus' name. :whistle

I agree: Maybe she is; maybe she isn't. But I think that NYLP is trying to say that she was baptized in the "apostolic" "UPC" sense of the word, and I doubt THAT to be true. It MAY be true, but he probably doesn't know that for a fact, therefore it's a deliberate attempt to claim something that doesn't exist on his part.

LOL!!! I am NOT personally saying that she IS or IS NOT baptized in Jesus' name--because I don't know. Considering that it is an Assembly of God church, the chances, even according to MOW's estimates, are only 1 out of 4. So I feel pretty comfortable expressing my doubts at NYLP's assertion. :coffee2

I think I've restated myself about 10 times on this thread. This thread is NOT about whether she called on Jesus in her head while she was being baptized, or whether baptism is always in Jesus' name, even if it's in the "titles." I know what NYLP was implying (and so does Timlan, apparently), and I'm saying his implication is probably FALSE.

[rosebud]

:beatdeadhorse We need a smiley that is "strain at a knat and swallow a camel"....................

1st point - I don't remember when I was baptized as a girl in a UPC church in Jesus Name if I "in my head called on the name of Jesus" does that make my baptism less relative then those that did????

2nd point - The UPC and some other oneness folks refuse to believe anyone but them are baptizing in Jesus Name and doing it with the right intentions! This is just plain stupid:snapout.

Years ago my husband was witnessing to a Trinitarian Minister and sharing with him the importance of being baptized in Jesus Name. The Minister said you show me the importance and I will obey! Well, he saw his need and we called our pastor UPC, Large church in the western district and he was busy..........so he sent this other "so-called" minister to baptize this man, and his words were "let's get this over with, I've got hot pizza waiting for me at home".....and then he proceeded to baptize him in Jesus Name.......I was moritified and embarassed...... Since this minister did not have his priorities straight was our trinitarian friends baptism less relative..........?

[rgcraig]

Years ago my husband was witnessing to a Trinitarian Minister and sharing with him the importance of being baptized in Jesus Name. The Minister said you show me the importance and I will obey! Well, he saw his need and we called our pastor UPC, Large church in the western district and he was busy..........so he sent this other "so-called" minister to baptize this man, and his words were "let's get this over with, I've got hot pizza waiting for me at home".....and then he proceeded to baptize him in Jesus Name.......I was moritified and embarassed...... Since this minister did not have his priorities straight was our trinitarian friends baptism less relative..........?

Wow!

[tamor]

Wow!

That's what I was thinking. It's a wonder the guy didn't leave!

[rgcraig]

I have a question.

If someone is baptized in jesus name is it different than in Jesus name?

Maybe that's NLYP's problem.

[A_PoMo]

i haven't read all the posts on this thread, so if i'm re-hashing what other people have said then i apologize in advance.

the pastor said 'in the name of jesus christ'. all the trinitarians i've been around and go to church and school with say 'in the name of jesus' when they pray and such and 'in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit' when they baptize. but when they say 'in the name of jesus christ' they're not connoting it in a literal sense as in a proper noun, the mean it as an adjective describing something. apostolics mean the actual name 'jesus', they mean 'jesus' in a somewhat a somewhat figurative sense as his 'name' denotes his dvinity and thus refers to the holy trinity. so for a trinitarian person to say 'in the name of jesus' does not mean they've come your way if ur a op.

all this hoopla about her being baptized in 'jesus name' is much adue about nothing and more reflective of a sense of inferiority and a craving for credibility.

[rosebud]

That's what I was thinking. It's a wonder the guy didn't leave!

Yon know the sad part is he almost did leave, I remember him saying "If it's to much trouble, I'll just leave"..............we had to do some fast talking to get him to stay. Thank the Lord he did.

[MissBrattified]

1st point - I don't remember when I was baptized as a girl in a UPC church in Jesus Name if I "in my head called on the name of Jesus" does that make my baptism less relative then those that did????

That comment was referencing the beliefs of some who believe that it is up to the baptizee whether they call upon the name of the Lord or not, e.g., calling on the name of Jesus. Which would explain the deliberate obtuseness at saying she was baptized in Jesus' name even if the minister didn't call those exact words over her. IOW, supporting NYLP's implication.

2nd point - The UPC and some other oneness folks refuse to believe anyone but them are baptizing in Jesus Name and doing it with the right intentions! This is just plain stupid:snapout.

I don't believe that at all. I don't care if someone is baptized in Jesus' name in a Catholic church or UPCI church or by Hitler. Baptism in Jesus' name is still baptism in Jesus name no matter where it takes place, and who the baptizer is. Intentions do matter, of course, but as long as the intentions of the baptizee are pure, then the circumstances are irrelevant, IMO.

Years ago my husband was witnessing to a Trinitarian Minister and sharing with him the importance of being baptized in Jesus Name. The Minister said you show me the importance and I will obey! Well, he saw his need and we called our pastor UPC, Large church in the western district and he was busy..........so he sent this other "so-called" minister to baptize this man, and his words were "let's get this over with, I've got hot pizza waiting for me at home".....and then he proceeded to baptize him in Jesus Name.......I was mortified and embarassed...... Since this minister did not have his priorities straight was our trinitarian friends baptism less relative..........?

Of course not. Who would think something that stupid? :whistle

[A_PoMo]

btw, i apologize if i sound grumpy. if i sound grumpy its because i am indeed grumpy. i got food poisoning last night and i feel like scrap. luv ya'll. :)

[MissBrattified]

I have a question.

If someone is baptized in jesus name is it different than in Jesus name?

Maybe that's NLYP's problem.

Can you rephrase the question? :coffee2

[Cindy]

btw, i apologize if i sound grumpy. if i sound grumpy its because i am indeed grumpy. i got food poisoning last night and i feel like scrap. luv ya'll. :)

Sorry you are feeling scrappy, will pray for you. Food poisoning is not good. Hope you feel better soon. Love you too grumpy.:)

[MissBrattified]

This thread is making me grumpy, too.

Sorry about your food poisoning, APomo...that's nasty business.

[A_PoMo]

GROOOOOOAAAAANNNNN!!!!!! (if anybody has any ideas how i can milk this further for more sympathy just pm me. :) )

[MissBrattified]

Does this emoticon make you feel better or worse?

:vomit




:D

[A_PoMo]

:aaa

[rgcraig]

Can you rephrase the question? :coffee2

Just pointing out the fact that NLYP didn't capitalize jesus! :ursofunny

[MissBrattified]

Just pointing out the fact that NLYP didn't capitalize jesus! :ursofunny

Oh. LOL!!! I missed that completely. I suppose that only relates to the church secretary's record of the events, and perhaps those who are baptized in jesus' name in the records, must be rebaptized in order to correct her typo? :D :crazy

[MissBrattified]

What does it say about my personality if it amuses me to make gagging noises around sick people? :D

[rosebud]

[Of course not. Who would think something that stupid? :whistle[/QUOTE]

You'd be surprized...............:crazy I was raised in the UPC, and in a stable church, I also have uncles that are Ministers (UPC, Apostolic) and my Dad before he backslid and turned totally whacko was a UPC minister.... but I have heard some pretty strange beliefs, I don't think everyone thinks that way but I know some do...........

so now I'm going to go to lunch and take a break from this thread, because I'm getting grumpy also:aaa

[A_PoMo]

What does it say about my personality if it amuses me to make gagging noises around sick people? :D

u are disturbing. :evilglee

[italianstyle7]

what we believe - their no is posted on their website. has anyone called them?

16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God
These are nonnegotiable tenets of faith that all Assemblies of God churches adhere to. This list is derived from the official Statement of Fundamental Truths.
WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind.

WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).

WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.

WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through Salvation (accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness for sin). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances (1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.

WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is Speaking in Tongues, as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.

WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike.

WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ.

WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers the Church.

WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope.� When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. At that time many in the nation of Israel will recognize and accept Him as the Messiah, the Savior who died for them and all mankind.

WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire.

WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!'





Wasilla Assembly of God

Wasilla Assembly of God: 125 West Riley Ave, Wasilla, Alaska 99654



© 2000 - 2008 Razor Planet, Inc. All Rights Reserved | Privacy Policy . Terms Of Use | Content Copyright: Wasilla Assembly of God

[Evang.Benincasa]

Does the AOG baptize in Jesus name?


NO!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Interesting! Are there still AOG churches that baptize in Jesus name?


NO and No.

[Evang.Benincasa]

But what did the pastor mean by it?

Most people who baptize in the titles believe they are baptizing in the name of Jesus.

Jesus name preacher asks Trinitarian preacher if he baptizes in JESUS NAME.

Trinitarian preacher says "yes"

Jesus name Preacher says "really"

Trinitarian preacher says "yes, I baptize in Jesus name"

Jesus name preacher says "do you say I baptize you in JESUS NAME?"

Trinitarian preacher says "no"

Jesus name preacher says "what do you say then?"

Trinitarian preacher says "I say I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

Jesus name preacher says "That's not in Jesus name!"

Trinitarian preacher says "oh yes it is!"

Jesus name preacher says "oh no it's not!"

Trinitarian preacher says "oh it is too"

Jesus name preacher says "No it's not!"

[Falla39]

I personally know a Church of God minister in our city, who a few years ago
started teaching from the book of Acts that they needed to be baptized in Jesus
Name. He started re-baptizing his congregation in Jesus Name. He had two uncles
that were UPC and he became convinced that baptizing in Jesus Name was correct.

Recently (July 08) he called my brother who had fallen off a ladder and had been
hurt. This minister had heard about his accident and was asking how he was doing.
Said he wanted to come by and visit for a few minutes and pray with my brother.
My brother told him sure, just come on by. While he was there, James asked him if
he was still baptizing in Jesus Name. Oh Yes was his reply.

Very pleasant, likeable man and is always very friendly with our people.
Two or three years ago, he was on a business trip to Mississippi and while there,
someone shot at him and although the bullet just grazed him, his quick movement
caused some materials to fall on him. Someone from his group called our eldest son
who called me. All we knew at that time was that he had been shot. I called my
brother, James and we got the word around to pray for Bro. Lonnie S., that he
had been shot in Mississippi. About two or three weeks later I saw him in the grocery
store and told him as soon as we had heard we got the word around and prayed. He
was very grateful. Said the bullet just grazed him but caused heavy equipment to fall
on him but that God was with him.

I said all that to say that if we would show MORE of the love of Christ, shed
abroad in our
hearts by the Holy Ghost, like we should, we might see more results. More can be
done by love (not just words, but in action) than all the "sounding brass and tinkling
cymbals" we could talk about.

I don't mean to be critical nor offensive. Let God be true and every man a liar.
God is the ONE who can and will do His work if we will not interfere. HE will open
the doors that only HE can open. But if we have a critical spirit and offensive
attitude, HE may not use us to show them more.

Lift Him up! Lift Him up!
Lift the name of Jesus higher;
Lift Him up, raise His banner To the sky.
He said, “If I be lifted up,I will draw all men unto me".
Lift Him up! All ye people, Lift Him up.

Blessings,

Falla39

[tstew]

I personally know a Church of God minister in our city, who a few years ago
started teaching from the book of Acts that they needed to be baptized in Jesus
Name. He started re-baptizing his congregation in Jesus Name. He had two uncles
that were UPC and he became convinced that baptizing in Jesus Name was correct.

Recently (July 08) he called my brother who had fallen off a ladder and had been
hurt. This minister had heard about his accident and was asking how he was doing.
Said he wanted to come by and visit for a few minutes and pray with my brother.
My brother told him sure, just come on by. While he was there, James asked him if
he was still baptizing in Jesus Name. Oh Yes was his reply.

Very pleasant, likeable man and is always very friendly with our people.
Two or three years ago, he was on a business trip to Mississippi and while there,
someone shot at him and although the bullet just grazed him, his quick movement
caused some materials to fall on him. Someone from his group called our eldest son
who called me. All we knew at that time was that he had been shot. I called my
brother, James and we got the word around to pray for Bro. Lonnie S., that he
had been shot in Mississippi. About two or three weeks later I saw him in the grocery
store and told him as soon as we had heard we got the word around and prayed. He
was very grateful. Said the bullet just grazed him but caused heavy equipment to fall
on him but that God was with him.

I said all that to say that if we would show MORE of the love of Christ, shed
abroad in our
hearts by the Holy Ghost, like we should, we might see more results. More can be
done by love (not just words, but in action) than all the "sounding brass and tinkling
cymbals" we could talk about.

I don't mean to be critical nor offensive. Let God be true and every man a liar.
God is the ONE who can and will do His work if we will not interfere. HE will open
the doors that only HE can open. But if we have a critical spirit and offensive
attitude, HE may not use us to show them more.

Lift Him up! Lift Him up!
Lift the name of Jesus higher;
Lift Him up, raise His banner To the sky.
He said, “If I be lifted up,I will draw all men unto me".
Lift Him up! All ye people, Lift Him up.

Blessings,

Falla39

Sis. Falla, I really appreciate your spirit and your obvious sincerity.

God Bless,

[crakjak]

I am just saying that because it's been argued on this forum before.

Some (I think even some in the UPC) say, "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Some say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name."

Some say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost which is Jesus."
There are some in Oneness Pentecost who say that saying something like that is wrong, that the baptism is not really valid because there was mention of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost words along with the name of Jesus.

Then there are other Apostolics that teach that if you mention the word "Lord" in baptism, like saying, "I baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ," it is wrong. Yet others say that all three words "Lord," "Jesus," and "Christ" must be mentioned or you are taking from the word of God.

50 years ago I was taught that the name of the Father is "Lord," the name of the Son is "Jesus" and the name of the Holy Ghost is "Christ" therefore the "full" name "Lord Jesus Christ" must be spoken.

Other Apostolics teach that if you use the three words "Lord Jesus Christ" you might just as well say "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" because "Lord Jesus Christ" is a trinitarian form of baptism.

Then of course there are Apostolics who say that the person has to be completely under water while the name is being said or the baptism is not valid.

Some of us Apostolics have just about gotten to the place where the "formula" for baptism is like a "magical formula" and if the words are not spoken in just the exactly right way the baptism is not considered valid.

I heard Anthony Mangun proclaim the bolded words over one being baptized, was that baptism valid??

[crakjak]

It is apparent from her very words on this video that Sarah Palin is a born again believer in Jesus Christ. May all her actions and words glorify Him in the coming days. We should all being praying for her as well as the others.

[A_PoMo]

Jesus name preacher asks Trinitarian preacher if he baptizes in JESUS NAME.

Trinitarian preacher says "yes"

Jesus name Preacher says "really"

Trinitarian preacher says "yes, I baptize in Jesus name"

Jesus name preacher says "do you say I baptize you in JESUS NAME?"

Trinitarian preacher says "no"

Jesus name preacher says "what do you say then?"

Trinitarian preacher says "I say I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

Jesus name preacher says "That's not in Jesus name!"

Trinitarian preacher says "oh yes it is!"

Jesus name preacher says "oh no it's not!"

Trinitarian preacher says "oh it is too"

Jesus name preacher says "No it's not!"

i hate to admit it, but we agree on this one. it's what i said earlier. 'in jesus name' means something different to most trinitarians than it does to op's. different theology behind the phrase.

[A_PoMo]

I've always thought "in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit which is jesus' is a strong oneness statement. but most op's i know think it's a compromise.

[MissBrattified]

i hate to admit it, but we agree on this one. it's what i said earlier. 'in jesus name' means something different to most trinitarians than it does to op's. different theology behind the phrase.

A_PoMo hates Trinnies just like Mr. Crabtree. :tease

[trickledown]

Sam I hope you like this...
Well to keep the debate going, remember the words of Bro. Urshan...He is speaking of a trip to russia where
he had already been and had seen many people filled with the Holy
Ghost.

"I objected to such a thing then. I had come to the conclusion to
baptize the new repenting souls in Jesus Christ's name, but never
those who were already baptized. In spite of my personal feeling on
the subject, I was almost begged to baptize some who once were already
baptized.... I tried to discourage it, and told the folks it was not
necessary at all and that it would bring trouble and division among
them. I went as far as to tell them of the havoc that very thing had
created in America and then I plainly stated that I would not
rebaptize them.... I prayed hard against rebaptism and branded it to
be a trick of the devil to destroy that good revival."

God Bless Gov Palin. I think Acts 2:38 is the only way to do anything if you are OP.
If you are not OP, well then Matt. 28:19 might hold a lot of weight. Either way, the disciples weren't this extreme in their squabbles. Wether or not she was or wasn't, there are AoG pastors that I am friends with who at least have had a kind word and been more than willing to befriend me with my oneness beliefs.

[Falla39]

Sis. Falla, I really appreciate your spirit and your obvious sincerity.

God Bless,

Thank you for your kind words!:friend

Blessings,

Falla39

[Sam]

Sam I hope you like this...
Well to keep the debate going, remember the words of Bro. Urshan...He is speaking of a trip to russia where
he had already been and had seen many people filled with the Holy
Ghost.

"I objected to such a thing then. I had come to the conclusion to
baptize the new repenting souls in Jesus Christ's name, but never
those who were already baptized. In spite of my personal feeling on
the subject, I was almost begged to baptize some who once were already
baptized.... I tried to discourage it, and told the folks it was not
necessary at all and that it would bring trouble and division among
them. I went as far as to tell them of the havoc that very thing had
created in America and then I plainly stated that I would not
rebaptize them.... I prayed hard against rebaptism and branded it to
be a trick of the devil to destroy that good revival."
...
.

Out of curiosity, where did you come up with that quote by Bro. Andrew Urshan? I have read that and have quoted it somewhere on these forums.

Bro. Urshan did agree to be rebaptized while he was on that trip but maintained fellowship with the Assembly of God, actually being ordained by them a couple of years later. He wanted to maintain fellowship with both the trinitarians and oneness folks and did so until he was forced to choose one or the other.

[trickledown]

Not sure. I mentioned you because I remembered that you had discussed it. I am a lurker. I let myself get to upset with a pro Obama pro National Health Care poster here and have been on a self imposed posting fast.
I appreciated your insights about our founders and thought you might enjoy my reference to Bro Andrew Urshan.
My sentiments seem to be the same as his. I feel that it was used as a work of evil to divide us so. Most AoG people that I know are respectful of my view and unless they have been to one of their Bible Schools, very unlikely to see much difference.

[ThePastorsCoach]

I was in the Assemblies of God and baptized hundreds "In the Name of Jesus Christ" in the A/G churches. It was funny to hear people tell of meeting the UPC preacher in town that INSISTED they were NOT baptized in Jesus Name! LOL I went to his church and told him that I had baptized over 120 people in one day in Jesus name and he called me a liar, "because your wife wears sleeveless dresses"! How sad and how SICK can you get!

The truth of the matter is - it wouldn't matter if she was baptized by GA MANGUN at Alexandria - You folks full of doubt and unbelief would still say she was lost for not obeying your man made Wesleyan "holiness" ridiculous RULES!
Always remember - You can't do ENOUGH to be saved in the UPC and Apostolic Churches! No matter what you do - they will always come up with some other stupid rule to control and manipulate you!

[TCSQ]

I was in the Assemblies of God and baptized hundreds "In the Name of Jesus Christ" in the A/G churches. It was funny to hear people tell of meeting the UPC preacher in town that INSISTED they were NOT baptized in Jesus Name! LOL I went to his church and told him that I had baptized over 120 people in one day in Jesus name and he called me a liar, "because your wife wears sleeveless dresses"! How sad and how SICK can you get!

The truth of the matter is - it wouldn't matter if she was baptized by GA MANGUN at Alexandria - You folks full of doubt and unbelief would still say she was lost for not obeying your man made Wesleyan "holiness" ridiculous RULES!
Always remember - You can't do ENOUGH to be saved in the UPC and Apostolic Churches! No matter what you do - they will always come up with some other stupid rule to control and manipulate you!


Hey Atlanta Bishop,

I am so glad to hear that! I do have a question not a leading lower the boom in the next post type question but one that I am truly curious about. When you baptize the candidates in Jesus Name in that trinitarian environment, do you word it in such a way as to accomodate their belief stucture as well? In other words is it one of those hybrid "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost which is Jesus Christ, or In JESUS NAME or what ever form, or is it a clear concise unequivocal I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ?

I am fascinated by this subject and would really like to know. I have great hope for truth prevailing amongst all men and women who love God.

[TCSQ]

Jesus name preacher asks Trinitarian preacher if he baptizes in JESUS NAME.

Trinitarian preacher says "yes"

Jesus name Preacher says "really"

Trinitarian preacher says "yes, I baptize in Jesus name"

Jesus name preacher says "do you say I baptize you in JESUS NAME?"

Trinitarian preacher says "no"

Jesus name preacher says "what do you say then?"

Trinitarian preacher says "I say I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

Jesus name preacher says "That's not in Jesus name!"

Trinitarian preacher says "oh yes it is!"

Jesus name preacher says "oh no it's not!"

Trinitarian preacher says "oh it is too"

Jesus name preacher says "No it's not!"

I know that is often the case, but know for a certaintly that in other cases they actually DO believe quite strongly in the neccessity of baptizing solely in the name of Jesus Christ. But I understand exactly what you are saying. I gave up A LOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG time ago asking people who I witnessed to or discussed baptism with "have you been baptized in Jesus Name?" Because the answer was INVARIABLY "YES!" (I think all they were hearing was Have you been BAPTIZED?) When I started asking them "Have you been baptized in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Ghost, the answer again was invariably YES! I have only encountered a small handful of people who initially had any concept or inkling of a difference in the two.

The funny thing for me is that when I was a teenage boy CATHOLIC by faith, and had started reading the Bible, ***I**** was struck one day by what can only be called COMMON SENSE! I was reading Matthew 28:19, and had been taught from first grade catechism about the formula In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the HolyGhost, but it hit me, THE NAME! THIS CALLS for a CONCLUSION a REVELATON of ***THE*** NAME! I started leaning toward the thinking that the Apostles must have baptized in the name of Jehovah, only because its pronunciation had been lost to us (Yahweh Yahwaw Yahwah Yehowah, Jehaveh etc etc) it just couldnt be done.I genuinely believe it would have been a mere matter of time before I noticed the unanimous invocation of the name of JESUS in baptism in the book of Acts! It is that self evident. I honestly do NOT think that it RECQUIRES a revelation of God, because just like the brazen laver in the OLD testament, its right out there in PLAIN SIGHT! Right under the rays of the good old NATURAL sunlight!

NOT saying that some have not received a glorious revelation of it through the Holy Ghost, just saying I positively believe there is no excuse (OTHER THAN BLINDNESS) for not seeing this .

[ThePastorsCoach]

Hey Atlanta Bishop,

I am so glad to hear that! I do have a question not a leading lower the boom in the next post type question but one that I am truly curious about. When you baptize the candidates in Jesus Name in that trinitarian environment, do you word it in such a way as to accommodate their belief structure as well? In other words is it one of those hybrid "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost which is Jesus Christ, or In JESUS NAME or what ever form, or is it a clear concise unequivocal I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ?

I am fascinated by this subject and would really like to know. I have great hope for truth prevailing amongst all men and women who love God.

I did not and never have used the F/S/HG wording in a baptism.
I have always baptized saying these words: "Upon your confession of Faith and because you have repented of your sins, I now baptize you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins."
There are many that baptize this way and John Osteen - the Father of Joel Osteen told me personally that this was the way he always baptized!

You do NOT have to be OP to baptize in Jesus Name. Many of the "Charismatic" and Independent Pentecostal Churches here in Atlanta - Baptize this way and do not use the F/S/HG wording.

[TCSQ]

[QUOTE=AtlantaBishop;583753]I did not and never have used the F/S/HG wording in a baptism.
I have always baptized saying these words: "Upon your confession of Faith and because you have repented of your sins, I now baptize you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins."
There are many that baptize this way and John Osteen - the Father of Joel Osteen told me personally that this was the way he always baptized!




Wonderfull and fascinating at the same time!


You do NOT have to be OP to baptize in Jesus Name. Many of the "Charismatic" and Independent Pentecostal Churches here in Atlanta - Baptize this way and do not use the F/S/HG wording.


Hey well email me off group some time and I would really like to know more about all of that when you have time! Thanks for the reply!

[ThePastorsCoach]

Our Ministry for 35 years has been mostly outside the OP movement. I was born and raised Church of God of Prophecy and preached from the time I was 16. I ministered in mostly Church of God, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Holiness and Independent Pentecostal (non-OP) until I was 26 years old. Every person I ever baptized - I baptized them in the Name of Jesus Christ.

I was involved with OP's for almost 20 years and was in the UPC for 11 and have been away from it for 8 years and rarely preach in an OP church.
I continue to preach the Revelation of Jesus Christ and baptize in the Name of Jesus Christ. Over 98% of the people I pastor have never heard of and have never been a part of Oneness Pentecostalism. Most of them are Jamaican or from some Island and had never heard of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and most of them are now filled and baptized. We do not make it a requirement for membership but most of our people were saved and filled at the altars of our church.
There are many thousands of pastors outside the OP ranks that baptize using the name of Jesus in water baptism.
I do not use the F/S/HG wording but have no problem with ministers quoting the words of our Lord and Savior over people that are being baptized!

The problem comes in - in sectarian and elitist movements like the OP/UPC's that NOTHING IS GOOD ENOUGH!
It really does not matter how or who baptized you if you don't obey all their RULES! You still are not saved and that is what is so sad.
The OP's have a great revelation to share with the world - but if it is outside their little movement - they criticize it and alienate all possibilities of sharing it on a wide scale basis because they DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE BUT THEM IS SAVED!!!!!!!!

[Brad Murphy]

Can someone confirm or admit that the logic is now that it does not matter what is said over the person during baptism (ie- "in Jesus Name"), but what the "baptiser" is thinking when they perform the ceremony? Because this is what I am gathering from this thread.

Just when you think that salvation cannot get any more complicated... this seems to displace the tired, old argument that "they didn't use the right magic words".

[Michael The Disciple]

Out of curiosity, where did you come up with that quote by Bro. Andrew Urshan? I have read that and have quoted it somewhere on these forums.

Bro. Urshan did agree to be rebaptized while he was on that trip but maintained fellowship with the Assembly of God, actually being ordained by them a couple of years later. He wanted to maintain fellowship with both the trinitarians and oneness folks and did so until he was forced to choose one or the other.

Thats the key. I also wanted to continue fellowshipping with my friends who were Trinitarian but I was forced to chose also.

[Dora]

I'm just so excited that Palin is a woman who can relate to the Pentecostal experience. She obviously believes strongly in the power of prayer and lives a Christian life.

My mom sent me a link that shows her speaking in her home church. The minister who introduces her says that she was baptized in the name of Jesus.

Whoo Hoo!

That ROCKS!

So exciting!

She's an amazing speaker and comes across as feminine and intelligent and strong! She'd fit right in with us Southern Steel Magnolias! We could get some good stuff taken care of out on the back porch over some iced tea and chicken salad sandwiches!!!

[Sam]

I heard Anthony Mangun proclaim the bolded words ("I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost which is Jesus.") over one being baptized, was that baptism valid??

According to some of the folks on this thread, if Anthony Mangun baptizes using that formula, then all the folks that he has baptized that way are baptized wrong and in danger of hell fire. Poor Anthony Mangun, I hope he gets the revelation some day about baptism before he goes to the hot place and takes all those poor unsuspecting folks with him. :ursofunny

Oneness Pentecostals can't even agree among themselves on what is the right and wrong way to baptize and they are notorious for anathemizing one another over the proper "formula" (or "incantation") and even rebaptizing one another. :crazy

[Sam]

Our Ministry for 35 years has been mostly outside the OP movement. I was born and raised Church of God of Prophecy and preached from the time I was 16. I ministered in mostly Church of God, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Holiness and Independent Pentecostal (non-OP) until I was 26 years old. Every person I ever baptized - I baptized them in the Name of Jesus Christ.

I was involved with OP's for almost 20 years and was in the UPC for 11 and have been away from it for 8 years and rarely preach in an OP church.
I continue to preach the Revelation of Jesus Christ and baptize in the Name of Jesus Christ. Over 98% of the people I pastor have never heard of and have never been a part of Oneness Pentecostalism. Most of them are Jamaican or from some Island and had never heard of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and most of them are now filled and baptized. We do not make it a requirement for membership but most of our people were saved and filled at the altars of our church.
There are many thousands of pastors outside the OP ranks that baptize using the name of Jesus in water baptism.
I do not use the F/S/HG wording but have no problem with ministers quoting the words of our Lord and Savior over people that are being baptized!

The problem comes in - in sectarian and elitist movements like the OP/UPC's that NOTHING IS GOOD ENOUGH!
It really does not matter how or who baptized you if you don't obey all their RULES! You still are not saved and that is what is so sad.
The OP's have a great revelation to share with the world - but if it is outside their little movement - they criticize it and alienate all possibilities of sharing it on a wide scale basis because they DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE BUT THEM IS SAVED!!!!!!!!


uh, oh, AB.
Get ready to dodge those rocks, stones, boulders, and insults.

[Sam]

Sam I hope you like this...
Well to keep the debate going, remember the words of Bro. Urshan...He is speaking of a trip to russia where
he had already been and had seen many people filled with the Holy
Ghost.

"I objected to such a thing then. I had come to the conclusion to
baptize the new repenting souls in Jesus Christ's name, but never
those who were already baptized. In spite of my personal feeling on
the subject, I was almost begged to baptize some who once were already
baptized.... I tried to discourage it, and told the folks it was not
necessary at all and that it would bring trouble and division among
them. I went as far as to tell them of the havoc that very thing had
created in America and then I plainly stated that I would not
rebaptize them.... I prayed hard against rebaptism and branded it to
be a trick of the devil to destroy that good revival."

God Bless Gov Palin. I think Acts 2:38 is the only way to do anything if you are OP.
If you are not OP, well then Matt. 28:19 might hold a lot of weight. Either way, the disciples weren't this extreme in their squabbles. Wether or not she was or wasn't, there are AoG pastors that I am friends with who at least have had a kind word and been more than willing to befriend me with my oneness beliefs.

Speaking of Bro. A.D. Urshan, here are two posts about him that I have posted before. The first is how he got saved way before he ever heard about water baptistm in Jesus name and the Holy Ghost baptistm. The second is how he started to baptize in Jesus name and how he got baptized in Jesus name:

1. Andrew Urshan's conversion
This is an account of Andrew Urshan’s conversion. I have a book titled “The Life of Andrew Bar David Urshan” which came from the Pentecostal Publishing House. Inside the cover it says that the first printing was circa 1918 and then reprinted in 1998. I also have several old magazines called “The Witness of God” which were published by Andrew Urshan. The first is dated January, 1946 and the last is dated December, 1946. The story in the magazine is pretty much the same as in the book but the date of the conversion is given as a Wednesday night in1901 in the magazine but as both 1899 and 1900 in the book. Also the location of Urmiah is spelled a couple of different ways in the book. Andrew Urshan was born in1884 and died in 1967.

Below is the account from the book.

On a windy night in March, in the year 1900 in Urumia City, Persia, when sitting with about 200 lads in the American Presbyterian Mission College, singing the blessed hymn, “Oh happy day that fixed my choice,” the Spirit of God seized me with great conviction and caused me to stop and think and to ask myself the question, “Am I really happy because Jesus has washed away my sins?” I was reproved and had to confess myself a hypocrite, and that broke my heart, and I instantly broke into tears as my sins were pictured before my eyes. Then I cried unto God for forgiveness and deliverance in Jesus’ name and the Lord heard me. I put my trust in the promises, “Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved,” and “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved;” and, the Spirit witnessed to my spirit that I had been born again and had been made a new creature in Christ Jesus.

With a new and tender heart and broken spirit, and with tears of repentance and joy, I sang the rest of the hymn not a hypocrite this time, but a truly happy, blood bought, blood washed child of the King. Oh, that wonderful night! that beautiful spot! that mourning bench in that school! And oh, that sweet effect of the gracious, crucified Saviour and risen Lord! Never will it be forgotten. It is still burning now as a clear blaze of the glory of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.

from pages 31 and 32, from chapter VI titled “My Conversion” in the book
and from page 7, of the magazine The Witness of God January, 1946

2. Andrew Urshan on baptism and rebaptism
Recently I read two different autobiographies of Andrew Urshan. One was printed serially in several magazines in 1946. The other was written in 1918 and is available from the UPC publishing house. The book from 1918 tells about his birth and childhood and conversion as a young man in Persia, his trip to the U.S., his baptism in the Spirit, and his ministry in the U.S., Persia, and Russia. There is no mention of his baptism in Jesus' name (unless I missed it). The magazine articles covered a lot of the same information but they do talk about baptism in Jesus' name. Andrew Urshan was sprinkled as a baby in the Presbyterian manner. Later as a young man he was immersed. He later had some questions concerning water baptism and came to the conclusion that, "The Lord Jesus Christ is the One Proper Name of the whole Deity for this Gospel dispensation because in Him, Jesus Christ our Lord, all the fullness of the Godhead dwells and to Him all the power in Heaven and earth was given" He goes on to say, "...This was indeed a wonderful revelation of the Trinity in Christ....seeing the great value of the baptism invested in faith in the One Name of the triune God..." He goes on to say that he had a tract published about this revelation, that he had Acts 2:38 painted above the baptistry tank and that he began to baptize new converts "into the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ which is the One Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost." This is on page 10 of a magazine titled The Witness of God, edition no. 3 of 1946. He said this happened in 1910 while pastoring an assembly at Sheffield and Montana Street in Chicago, Illinois. It is interesting that although he started baptizing new converts this way, he did not practice rebaptism. He later went back to Persia and then to Russia. In 1915 while preaching in Russia, he hoped no one would want to be water baptized because he knew it had become a controversy in the U.S. and he did not want to join in with either side of the issue. He did decide not to do any baptizing unless some one specifically requested baptism using the name of Jesus. A new convert came to him, pointing to Acts 8:16 in a Bible, and asked for baptism according to this verse. Several days later they went out into the woods to a river, cleared away two feet of snow, broke a hole trough the ice and baptized several people. There were more converts and a few days later more wanted to be baptized. Bro. Urshan preached on Isaiah 9:6 about "the sonship of Jesus and the Divine Fatherhood in Him." He then talked about baptism in Jesus' Name. As a result some who had been previously baptized requested rebaptism.

Here is what Bro. Urshan wrote about his attitude toward rebaptism.
"I objected to such a thing then. I had come to the conclusion to baptize the new repenting souls in Jesus Christ's name, but never those who were already baptized. In spite of my personal feeling on the subject, I was almost begged to baptize some who once were already baptized.... I tried to discourage it, and told the folks it was not necessary at all and that it would bring trouble and division among them. I went as far as to tell them of the havoc that very thing had created in America and then I plainly stated that i would not rebaptize them.... I prayed hard against rebaptism and branded it to be a trick of the devil to destroy that good revival." When they insisted on being rebaptized, he told them to go ahead and rebaptize one another. He told them that he himself had not been rebaptized and wanted to return to America and discuss it more fully with people there. Finally they prevailed upon him and he asked an elderly Russian to rebaptise him and then he baptized about 75 people in Jesus' Name.

Even though he had now been rebaptized, when Bro. Urshan returned to the U.S. he continued to fellowship and preach among those who practiced both types of baptism. Later, he was forced to choose sides and he sided with the "New Issue" or Jesus' name baptism.

Just a little history lesson for you.

[Sam]

I did not and never have used the F/S/HG wording in a baptism.
I have always baptized saying these words: "Upon your confession of Faith and because you have repented of your sins, I now baptize you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins."
...

OK, AB, I do not mean to play the part of an inquisitor, but, when you say, "I now baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins," what does "remission of sins" mean to you? Does it mean the person's sins get remitted or forgiven when you baptize them? or does it mean the person's sins have been previously remitted or forgiven so you are now baptizing them because their sins have been forgiven/remitted?

[Esther]

I have not read this entire thread, but after watching the video the thought that comes to my mind is "for such a time as this" just as Esther was placed in a high position "for such a time as this" to save her people. Perhaps Sarah is also placed or perhaps will be placed as an Esther for such a time as this.

Our nation needs healing.

[trickledown]

Sam,
Thanks for the history lesson. I had family in the Pentecostal movement in the teens when it really started to fragment.
If you ever come across any extra copy or if you know of someone who has reproduced the original book or articles (not the UPCI edited version for later OP generations) please pass it along. I would love to have a copy.
We were brought up to put all who hadn't been buried in the Name of Jesus (all titles from Mt 28:19 left out) in a burning Hell. I don't pass those judgements so quickly anymore. The stories from my grandmother of the oldtime beliefs and stories like this one from Bro Urshan leave me in awe that it came to this.
Again thanks for the History Lesson.

[TCSQ]

According to some of the folks on this thread, if Anthony Mangun baptizes using that formula, then all the folks that he has baptized that way are baptized wrong and in danger of hell fire. Poor Anthony Mangun, I hope he gets the revelation some day about baptism before he goes to the hot place and takes all those poor unsuspecting folks with him. :ursofunny

Oneness Pentecostals can't even agree among themselves on what is the right and wrong way to baptize and they are notorious for anathemizing one another over the proper "formula" (or "incantation") and even rebaptizing one another. :crazy



As are ALL groups including the New Order Amish and the Old Order Amish or the Southern Baptist and Free Will Baptist. Wish we could stop attributing common human behaviour and nature to being a Oneness Pentecostal Trait rather than just human nature traits.

As to the Anthony Mangun "quote" in his baptismal usage of Matthew 28:19, has anyone actually PRODUCED an audio or video documentation of that or is it purely based on Hearsay? The reason I ask that is that from the very beginning I have heard dyed in the wool Oneness Preachers out on the west coast use phraseing that could be misreported as that but actually is quite different.


Brother Murray Layne of Fresno OFTEN used to baptized along that line saying to the candidate in the water...................
"Upon our Lords command to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost I now Obey that command by baptizing you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...
More intended to once again illuminate the meaning of Matthew 28:19 than to try and accomodate the trinitarian formula into a hybrid. It would not surprise me if the "quote" being attributed to brother Mangun is actually something a lot more akin to if not indeed a direct repeating OF that common Oneness usage of Matthew 28:19 to demonstrate a truth concerning the name of Jesus implied in it.

[TRFrance]

I have not read this entire thread, but after watching the video the thought that comes to my mind is "for such a time as this" just as Esther was placed in a high position "for such a time as this" to save her people. Perhaps Sarah is also placed or perhaps will be placed as an Esther for such a time as this.

Our nation needs healing.

Indeed. As I've said elsewhere, if God wants her to win, she will win. Its that simple.

By the way, for what it's worth, the newest Zogby poll now shows McCain/Palin leading by 4 points.
"The McCain/Palin ticket wins 49.7% support, compared to 45.9% backing for the Obama/Biden ticket, this latest online survey shows. Another 4.4% either favored someone else or were unsure. "
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1548

[crakjak]

As are ALL groups including the New Order Amish and the Old Order Amish or the Southern Baptist and Free Will Baptist. Wish we could stop attributing common human behaviour and nature to being a Oneness Pentecostal Trait rather than just human nature traits.

As to the Anthony Mangun "quote" in his baptismal usage of Matthew 28:19, has anyone actually PRODUCED an audio or video documentation of that or is it purely based on Hearsay? The reason I ask that is that from the very beginning I have heard dyed in the wool Oneness Preachers out on the west coast use phraseing that could be misreported as that but actually is quite different.


Brother Murray Layne of Fresno OFTEN used to baptized along that line saying to the candidate in the water...................
"Upon our Lords command to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost I now Obey that command by baptizing you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...
More intended to once again illuminate the meaning of Matthew 28:19 than to try and accomodate the trinitarian formula into a hybrid. It would not surprise me if the "quote" being attributed to brother Mangun is actually something a lot more akin to if not indeed a direct repeating OF that common Oneness usage of Matthew 28:19 to demonstrate a truth concerning the name of Jesus implied in it.

This is not hearsay, AM was our pastor in Plano, TX at the time, I heard it more than once, and believe you could easily confirm it by calling him and asking. BTW, I don't have any problem with the wording at all.

[TCSQ]

This is not hearsay, AM was our pastor in Plano, TX at the time, I heard it more than once, and believe you could easily confirm it by calling him and asking. BTW, I don't have any problem with the wording at all.



Well if you were there you would certainly know better than I. Still I wonder if what he said twenty plus years ago may not have been more along the line of Murray Laynes habit mentioned in the post you responded to.

I found this clip of Pastor Mangun preaching on baptism in Jesus Name. Its not very thorough, but see no allusion here to any other name other than a specific baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=E4EdYhAq954


In this next clip he is even MORE emphatic about NOT baptizing in the titles but in the specific name of JESUS CHRIST. I see no even minor allusion to him alluding to baptizing the way you understood him to baptize in Plano.


http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=1DYdPRS3aDs&eurl=http://www.calvarychapel.com.au/Baptism%20in%20Jesus%20Name.htm

[SuzanneDeAZ]

I saw a clip of her wearing a pant suit in an older video. Maybe she perfers to wear skirts when she is speaking.

[SuzanneDeAZ]

No, I have a bull dog and it would be impossible to put lipstick on her. It is "pit bulls" that she made reference to. Bull dog's lips are floppy. Try kissing one and you will find it is impossible.

[rgcraig]

No, I have a bull dog and it would be impossible to put lipstick on her. It is "pit bulls" that she made reference to. Bull dog's lips are floppy. Try kissing one and you will find it is impossible.She wasn't talking about putting lipstick on the dog - - - the difference between a soccer mom and a bulldog is lipstick - - meaning that the only difference in her and bulldog is SHE wears lipstick.

[SuzanneDeAZ]

Some folks here would complain if Tommy Tenney or Randy Phillips were chosen as the VP candidate! "They're not TRUE Apostolics" would be the cry.


So you all think Tommy Tenny is a true apostle?:friend

[Scott Hutchinson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uT1OoilXnU

[Scott Hutchinson]

://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1ZecHyjHds

[SuzanneDeAZ]

No, I have a bull dog and it would be impossible to put lipstick on her. It is "pit bulls" that she made reference to. Bull dog's lips are floppy. Try kissing one and you will find it is impossible.


I understand what she was saying. It was a previous poster who said lipstick on a bulldog. But the joke was not about a bull dog but a pit bull. Big difference as I have a bull dog. It is her that is wearing lipstick. That is not what I was making reference to. I just corrected her saying it was NOT a bull dog but a pit bull. big difference. One has huge lips, that is a bull dog. Have you ever seen a bull dog laying on its back? Their lips hang.

[rgcraig]

I understand what she was saying. It was a previous poster who said lipstick on a bulldog. But the joke was not about a bull dog but a pit bull. Big difference as I have a bull dog. It is her that is wearing lipstick. That is not what I was making reference to. I just corrected her saying it was NOT a bull dog but a pit bull. big difference. One has huge lips, that is a bull dog. Have you ever seen a bull dog laying on its back? Their lips hang.

Oh, my mistake it was pit bull and also it was hockey mom and not soccer mom.....lol!

[crakjak]

Well if you were there you would certainly know better than I. Still I wonder if what he said twenty plus years ago may not have been more along the line of Murray Laynes habit mentioned in the post you responded to.

I found this clip of Pastor Mangun preaching on baptism in Jesus Name. Its not very thorough, but see no allusion here to any other name other than a specific baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=E4EdYhAq954


In this next clip he is even MORE emphatic about NOT baptizing in the titles but in the specific name of JESUS CHRIST. I see no even minor allusion to him alluding to baptizing the way you understood him to baptize in Plano.


http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=1DYdPRS3aDs&eurl=http://www.calvarychapel.com.au/Baptism%20in%20Jesus%20Name.htm

Should he go back and rebaptise all those he baptised using the phrase that I described? Or was that effective because of the faith of baptised, inspite of what the baptiser spoke over them?

Yes, as a high profile minister in the shadow of his parents, he will confirm the party line more boldly. Just maybe he was following the leading of the Spirit earlier?

[jackbauer]

I know it hhas been several days since the last post but I found this on the churches website. I don't know if anyone posted this since I didn't want to read through twenty pages of posts.
The Easter morning service on march 23rd 2008 the pastor preaches the acts2:38 Baptism in Jesus Name. listen from the 28 minute point on. They have video of Baptisms where they pronounce "upon the confession of your faith I Baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, In Jesus Name" then they Baptize them. Someone questioned the validity of Baptisms if something was wrong with the Baptizer, What really matters is the heart of the Baptizee.

In the early 1900's when the first person was Baptized in Jesus Name, was the Baptism done right way since the very first was Baptized by someone Baptized in the titles and hadn't been baptized in Jesus Name? Did the first person then have to be later Rebaptized afterwards by somone that was Baptized in Jesus Name?

For the message and baptisms Go to:
http://www.wasillaag.net/all.html
The Easter morning service on march 23rd 2008