The Bottom Line...

[Jekyll]

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS

ISSUE






Favors new drilling offshore US
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

Served in the US Armed Forces
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Amount of time served in the US Senate
JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
BARAK OBAMA 173 DAYS
Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports gun ownership rights
JOHN McCAINYes
BARAK OBAMA No
Supports homosexual marriage
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted against making English the official language
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN
15% (no change)
OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN
- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!





You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html)

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes (http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes)
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html (http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html )

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/)
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/)

[Jekyll]

I wrote this on another thread,

"Dr. King spoke of someone being able to have success in the world regardless of the color of their skin. I hope that the minions don't decide to elect oscama just because of the color of his skin. That would be in direct contradiction to the philosophy of Dr. King that so many espouse."

I really hope that people don't elect him for the color of his skin. Make no mistake I would vote for Clarence Thomas, over McCain, maybe even Condi Rice over McCain.

Would it be a huge realization of Dr. King's dream for an African American to become President of the United States? Absolutely. But, at the expense of the integrity of his dream? Never. He would rather keep his dream and it be accomplished legitimately.

Color isn't at stake here. He has no other attributes, other than personality.

And we think Willie was Slick?

[Carpenter]

I was speaking with some folks tonight and it amazes me how ignorant people are. They will say anything just to have something to say... This lady who is intelligent in most other things, said "I think Al Gore would have been a good president." I didn't want to embarass her, but whadda moron, and these people believe obamination has what it takes to be president? I can't believe they have conviction. They are hedging their bets that party trumps person.

[Praxeas]

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS


ISSUE






Favors new drilling offshore US
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

Served in the US Armed Forces
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Amount of time served in the US Senate
JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
BARAK OBAMA 173 DAYS
Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports gun ownership rights
JOHN McCAINYes
BARAK OBAMA No
Supports homosexual marriage
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted against making English the official language
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN
15% (no change)
OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN
- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!





You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html)

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes (http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes)
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html (http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html )

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/)
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/)
See Aquila and "Happytown"...it's NOT just about Abortion.

thanks Jek

[Jekyll]

For all the ranting and raving we do, these are the times to support or leave a candidate. When the choice comes down to the two, you put 'em or you leave the table.

Although McCain by himself is suspect as a Republican, I believe he is motivated by the best interests of the nation. He also knows how to win. From the darkhorse in the primaries, to tying conservatives to the candidacy, he has put forth a solid ticket.

The other candidate is totally immersed in his own legacy and his ego that HE himself is actually the best thing this country. Biden as liberal as he is. He has no guidance to balance himself even to the "conservatives" of the Democratic party.

[HappyTown]

Both candidates are nut jobs, again American has no real picks!

[Praxeas]

Both candidates are nut jobs, again American has no real picks!
Probably true but McCain is a better choice anyways

[Rhoni]

Probably true but McCain is a better choice anyways

Amen!

[Jekyll]

Both candidates are nut jobs, again American has no real picks!
So are you going to vote for the greater of two evils, as you see them?

[Michael Phelps]

So are you going to vote for the greater of two evils, as you see them?

Jekyll, this is an excellent summation. Thanks for posting this, this makes it all clear.

[HappyTown]

So are you going to vote for the greater of two evils, as you see them?



Evil is evil! Please give bible to backup were God say one evil is less then another ????

You assume a lot, yet know little!!!

I'M NOT VOTING!

[Michael Phelps]

Evil is evil! Please give bible to backup were God say one evil is less then another ????

You assume a lot, yet know little!!!

I'M NOT VOTING!

Wow, ease up a bit, HT.

I don't think Jekyll was implying that one evil is greater than another, he was coining a phrase.

And, not voting is not the answer, in my opinion. If you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe.

[HappyTown]

Wow, ease up a bit, HT.

I don't think Jekyll was implying that one evil is greater than another, he was coining a phrase.

And, not voting is not the answer, in my opinion. If you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe.

I'm supporting the right to say, HEY I DON"T AGREE WITH Either, will not play their games .

[rgcraig]

I'm supporting the right to say, HEY I DON"T AGREE WITH Either, will not play their games .

Unless you leave the good ole USA - you'll be affected by their games.

[Michael Phelps]

I'm supporting the right to say, HEY I DON"T AGREE WITH Either, will not play their games .

Who would you support?

[Jekyll]

Jekyll, this is an excellent summation. Thanks for posting this, this makes it all clear.
It was at least accurate before he chose Palin. Now, it's not such a bad choice after all.

[Tim Rutledge]

I think we've hi-jacked this thread.

[rgcraig]

I'm going to copy this thread and put it in the FH and rename it (minus the first couple posts about the stats of McCain.

[Michael Phelps]

I'm going to copy this thread and put it in the FH and rename it (minus the first couple posts about the stats of McCain.

Good idea, sorry Jekyll, we hijacked your thread!

[SOUNWORTHY]

Evil is evil! Please give bible to backup were God say one evil is less then another ????

You assume a lot, yet know little!!!

I'M NOT VOTING!

Then shut up!!!

[Jekyll]

Good idea, sorry Jekyll, we hijacked your thread!
That's fine.

I was hoping to get more responses to the question of how people can slap Dr. King on one side of the back as a hero because of his dream. Then, stab him on the other side of the back by voting for race rather than voting in spite of race.

[Michael Phelps]

That's fine.

I was hoping to get more responses to the question of how people can slap Dr. King on one side of the back as a hero because of his dream. Then, stab him on the other side of the back by voting for race rather than voting in spite of race.

That's a very good and valid question. I'd be interested in seeing the response too, and since Renda split the thread, hopefully we can get back to the original question.

[Jekyll]

That's a very good and valid question. I'd be interested in seeing the response too, and since Renda split the thread, hopefully we can get back to the original question.
Thank you

Can we move it back to the FH as a general question rather than an electoral or political question?

[Michael Phelps]

Thank you

Can we move it back to the FH as a general question rather than an electoral or political question?

I wouldn't make that decision independently. You can report the first post and ask all the admin to consider moving the thread.

[Jekyll]

Hooray!! :friend

Now,


BUMP



How people can slap Dr. King on one side of the back as a hero because of his dream? Then, stab him on the other side of the back by voting for race rather than voting in spite of race?

[rgcraig]

Hooray!! :friend

Now,

Originally Posted by Jekyll

How people can slap Dr. King on one side of the back as a hero because of his dream? Then, stab him on the other side of the back by voting for race rather than voting in spite of race.


Because they want it both ways.

I have actually heard that some blacks DO NOT want Obama in office because they will lose "their race card." Now, how messed up is that?

[Michael Phelps]

I wouldn't make that decision independently. You can report the first post and ask all the admin to consider moving the thread.

OR, Renda can do it!:ursofunny

[Jekyll]

Or, seeing the sea of African-American's (I hate that term, aren't we all just Americans?) at the DNC who would vote this time around who wouldn't ordinarily vote in other elections? They have no right to quote Dr. King.

[Esther]

Wow, ease up a bit, HT.

I don't think Jekyll was implying that one evil is greater than another, he was coining a phrase.

And, not voting is not the answer, in my opinion. If you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe.

AMEN!

[Esther]

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS

ISSUE






Favors new drilling offshore US
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

Served in the US Armed Forces
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Amount of time served in the US Senate
JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
BARAK OBAMA 173 DAYS
Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports gun ownership rights
JOHN McCAINYes
BARAK OBAMA No
Supports homosexual marriage
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted against making English the official language
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN
15% (no change)
OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN
- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!





You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html)

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes (http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes)
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html (http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html )

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/)
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/)

After reading these very high taxes how much more the people are willing to accept before there is a TAX REVOLT?

When you start adding all that up you are nearly paying 50% of your income to the government.

I think we are about to catch up with the communist countries. :(

[Praxeas]

I'm supporting the right to say, HEY I DON"T AGREE WITH Either, will not play their games .
But at least ONE WILL end up being president despite you no vote protest....it will go un noticed

[Rhoni]

No vote is giving Obama another vote. McCain/Palin may not have all the answers but they are much closer to the value system of true Christians than Obama will ever be.

We can't have it both ways...stay univolved in politics and complain about what we end up with, or getting involved and promoting the vote for life and the institution of marriage as God set it up from the beginning.

Many don't realize how close we are to Sodom & Gomorrah. What constitutes a family is so loose that it can be a pedophile living with his gay lover molesting adopted children.

We need to look at all the issues, and vote with the integrity of our Apostolic teachings.

Blessings, Rhoni

[tstew]

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS

ISSUE






Favors new drilling offshore US
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

Served in the US Armed Forces
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No
Amount of time served in the US Senate
JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
BARAK OBAMA 173 DAYS You all need to realize how much the average person, not blindly married to any political party is tired of such double talk and illogical reasoning. This amount of Senate time stat is more than misleading, it is a GOP talking point that is not even logical. The crazy thing is that the Die-hard Republicans on this forum always accuses the Dems of just blindly buying into propaganda. In my opinion both sides are equally guilty and it drives me crazy. I just don't have the energy anymore
Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Supports gun ownership rights
JOHN McCAINYes
BARAK OBAMA No
Supports homosexual marriage
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted against making English the official language
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JOHN McCAIN No
BARAK OBAMA Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN
15% (no change)
OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN
- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!





You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html)

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes (http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes)
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html (http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html )

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/)
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/ (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/)

[tstew]

Wow, ease up a bit, HT.

I don't think Jekyll was implying that one evil is greater than another, he was coining a phrase.

And, not voting is not the answer, in my opinion. If you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe.

Okay, MP...I'm already probably out there against the grain so I might as well go all the way out. It is amazing to me that you would tell HappyTown to "ease up" after her post (which I didn't think was particularly harsh to anyone), but not say anything about all of the blatant personal attacks that I have been reading here. (I think her being told to "shut up" is quite a bit harsher than what she said). I personally have been appalled at how someone would post something about a third party or an issue...then have the immediate response be a series of personal attacks, name calling, and childish insults about their intellect. Most of these from those who claim to be the moral and spiritual superior.
I think that it is should be easy to discuss their opinions without all of that...or at least attempt to.

[Michael Phelps]

Okay, MP...I'm already probably out there against the grain so I might as well go all the way out. It is amazing to me that you would tell HappyTown to "ease up" after her post (which I didn't think was particularly harsh to anyone), but not say anything about all of the blatant personal attacks that I have been reading here. (I think her being told to "shut up" is quite a bit harsher than what she said). I personally have been appalled at how someone would post something about a third party or an issue...then have the immediate response be a series of personal attacks, name calling, and childish insults about their intellect. Most of these from those who claim to be the moral and spiritual superior.
I think that it is should be easy to discuss their opinions without all of that...or at least attempt to.

I really don't know what you're talking about, Tstew.

Jekyll asked if she was going to vote for the lesser of two evils, and she took it literally and demanded scripture that implied that there were stages of evil. And, she did it pretty resolutely!

I was trying to inform her that he wasn't speaking literally, just asking if she would vote for the candidate that she thought was least evil.

And, I stand by my statement that if you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe.

As far as any other personal attacks, I haven't seen them.

[HappyTown]

Unless you leave the good ole USA - you'll be affected by their games.

After this election leaving this place might be wise! The good ole USA, she is far from what it was intended to be. We are slave, yet to delusional and caught up in the lies to realize it!

[Michael Phelps]

After this election leaving this place might be wise! The good ole USA, she is far from what it was intended to be. We are slave, yet to delusional and caught up in the lies to realize it!

What or who are we slaves to?

[tstew]

I really don't know what you're talking about, Tstew.

Jekyll asked if she was going to vote for the lesser of two evils, and she took it literally and demanded scripture that implied that there were stages of evil. And, she did it pretty resolutely!

I was trying to inform her that he wasn't speaking literally, just asking if she would vote for the candidate that she thought was least evil.

And, I stand by my statement that if you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe.

As far as any other personal attacks, I haven't seen them.

MP, I've seen plenty of name calling and juvenile insults and that just does not sit right with me...especially as an initial reaction to someone's opinion. I guess I've just been hoping that someone would step in and tell people to ease up with all that.

[HappyTown]

Then shut up!!!

Soon as you get a thinking mind!!!!

[Michael Phelps]

MP, I've seen plenty of name calling and juvenile insults and that just does not sit right with me...especially as an initial reaction to someone's opinion. I guess I've just been hoping that someone would step in and tell people to ease up with all that.

Well, if HT thinks she's been insulted, she can report the post.

However, I must admit, if anyone admits to me that they are not going to vote, and then proceed to gripe about the leadership of this country, I might be inclined to tell them to shut up too.

However, since that post, HT has indicated she'll write in a name. Which will be a wasted vote, but a vote nonetheless.

[HappyTown]

I think we are about to catch up with the communist countries. :(

Were already there honey! And it's going to get even worst!

[rgcraig]

After this election leaving this place might be wise! The good ole USA, she is far from what it was intended to be. We are slave, yet to delusional and caught up in the lies to realize it!

You seem so dissatisfied with your life here in America - with all it's warts I'm still very proud to be an American.

[Michael Phelps]

Were already there honey! And it's going to get even worst!

Ok, HT, try to focus here..............you've said that we've lost our freedom, we're slaves, and we live in a communist country.

Please explain EXACTLY what you mean? Can you do that?

[HappyTown]

Okay, MP...I'm already probably out there against the grain so I might as well go all the way out. It is amazing to me that you would tell HappyTown to "ease up" after her post (which I didn't think was particularly harsh to anyone), but not say anything about all of the blatant personal attacks that I have been reading here. (I think her being told to "shut up" is quite a bit harsher than what she said). I personally have been appalled at how someone would post something about a third party or an issue...then have the immediate response be a series of personal attacks, name calling, and childish insults about their intellect. Most of these from those who claim to be the moral and spiritual superior.
I think that it is should be easy to discuss their opinions without all of that...or at least attempt to.


Thanks!

[HappyTown]

What or who are we slaves to?

Simple logic: We are slaves of THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

Authority corrupts itself. Since the Constitution became the supreme Law of the Land in 1787, government officials and judges have warred against that instrument. In order to gain the enormous power the government wields against Americans today, its judges first had to become enemies and traitors to the Constitution and to the American people. Today, the federal government has thousands of laws in its Title 18 and Title 21, all created and passed without the knowledge or consent of the people, but that control all aspects of Americans’ lives. To prove this fact, compare the government’s laws in its Title 18 and Title 21, to Article I, Section 8, and to Article VI, Clauses 2 and 3 of our Constitution, and to Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137, 176-77, 180 (1803). You will find that none of the government’s laws can even remotely be connected to one of the 18 clauses of Article I, Section 8, which explicitly restricts the government’s limited powers. Therefore, today the federal government, its president, Congress, judges, prosecutors and its police are acting without authority from the Constitution. Thus, they are nothing more than criminals and tyrants and are traitors to the Constitution and to the American people.

Those who do not believe this fact, need only to get a copy of the Constitution of the United States and go to Article I, Section 8, which explicitly enumerates the government’s limited powers. Then proceed to the first 10 amendments to that instrument which further limits government’s powers. Continue on to Article VI, Clause 2 and 3, noting that it declares that the Constitution shall be the supreme Law of the Land and; that any law made by the government shall be made in harmony with the Constitution and; that Congress, all government officials, including judges, shall take an oath to support the Constitution as the Law of the Land and shall be bound thereby.

Now compare these controlling constitutional authorities to what ever act a government actor (FBI or ATF agent, judge or congressperson) has done, or is doing to you or someone you know and see if you can locate which clause of Article I, Section 8, authorizes that action by that actor. You will find that you cannot find such clause in Article 8.

Carry your copy of the Constitution with you at all times, and when you encounter one of these tyrants, present our supreme Law of the Land to them and demand that they show you what clause of that instrument explicitly authorizes their act against you. First, the tyrant cannot do that, because he or she is acting without authority from the Constitution and, thus, is a tyrant. Second, the tyrant is going to treat you like the government slave you have become, because the government has nullified all of your rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Therefore, you are treated as such; a slave of the government.

The majority of American "citizens" are too terrified of the government tyrants to demand of them, that they show just where the Constitution explicitly authorizes their actions.Therefore, through this terror, millions of Americans have stood by while these tyrants have unlawfully imprisoned their children, wives, husbands, fathers and mothers and grandparents. To prove to yourself that the government has unlawfully imprisoned your loved one, obtain a copy of the federal law (the indictment) that the government used to imprison your loved one and compare that law to the above mentioned Articles of the Constitution. You will find that that law (statute) is not authorized by that instrument. If you wish to really discover the complete government slave that you and your loved one has become, take your copy of the Constitution and go to the government’s courthouse (that took millions of your dollars to build) and go to the judge that unlawfully incarcerated your loved one and ask that judge to point to the specific Clause of Article I, Section 8, that explicitly authorized the government and that judge to imprison him.

You will find out four things. One, the Constitution does not even remotely authorize your loved one’s imprisonment; two, the judge CANNOT and WILL NOT point to one of the Clauses of Article I, Section 8, that explicitly authorized that imprisonment; three, that the judge and prosecutors are real and actual tyrants; and four, that the government considers that you are nothing more than a slave, with no rights.

Now, what are you going to do about that?

William J.R. Embrey,

Oxford, Wisconsin

[HappyTown]

Which will be a wasted vote, but a vote nonetheless.

No vote, is not a wasted one, when evil involved!

[Michael Phelps]

Simple logic: We are slaves of THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

Ah, so you don't really have an opinion, you just cut and pasted someone elses. I should have known.

Does your government tell you where and how you can worship?

Does your government restrict your travel?

Does your government tell you how many children you can have?

Does your government tell you where you can work and where you can't?

You don't even have a CLUE what communism is, HT, why don't you ask some foreign missionaries who are stationed in communist countries?

Think for yourself.

[rgcraig]

HT - you better watch out for those black helicopters too!

[Michael Phelps]

No vote is a wasted one, when evil involved!

I asked, but you never answered - what evil are you accusing the candidates of?

[HappyTown]

You seem so dissatisfied with your life here in America - with all it's warts I'm still very proud to be an American.

If you believe the System can be reformed, go for it. I’m absolutely convinced it cannot be fixed, and should not be fixed because it is more then just rotten to the core, it is a pervasive evil. A world that demands of you, as a human being, what it has no right to demand your life, your liberty, your labor, your money, your support and even your death is not a system that I believe should be maintained, and therefore, I cannot support the idea that reforming this system is worth doing.

[rgcraig]

If you believe the System can be reformed, go for it. I’m absolutely convinced it cannot be fixed, and should not be fixed because it is more then just rotten to the core, it is a pervasive evil. A world that demands of you, as a human being, what it has no right to demand your life, your liberty, your labor, your money, your support and even your death is not a system that I believe should be maintained, and therefore, I cannot support the idea that reforming this system is worth doing.

Huh?

[Michael Phelps]

If you believe the System can be reformed, go for it. I’m absolutely convinced it cannot be fixed, and should not be fixed because it is more then just rotten to the core, it is a pervasive evil. A world that demands of you, as a human being, what it has no right to demand your life, your liberty, your labor, your money, your support and even your death is not a system that I believe should be maintained, and therefore, I cannot support the idea that reforming this system is worth doing.

Lol, you are sooooooooo misguided, my naive friend.

You rant and rave with no facts.

Let me ask this:

How does the government demand your life?

How does your government demand your liberty?

How does your government demand your death?

[rgcraig]

Lol, you are sooooooooo misguided, my naive friend.

You rant and rave with no facts.

Let me ask this:

How does the government demand your life?

How does your government demand your liberty?

How does your government demand your death?

Actually, she said "the world" demands it. Is the world the government?

[Michael Phelps]

Actually, she said "the world" demands it. Is the world the government?

Oh, good catch! And good question!

[Esther]

If you believe the System can be reformed, go for it. I’m absolutely convinced it cannot be fixed, and should not be fixed because it is more then just rotten to the core, it is a pervasive evil. A world that demands of you, as a human being, what it has no right to demand your life, your liberty, your labor, your money, your support and even your death is not a system that I believe should be maintained, and therefore, I cannot support the idea that reforming this system is worth doing.

Wow!:crazy

[HappyTown]

You don't even have a CLUE what communism is, HT, why don't you ask some foreign missionaries who are stationed in communist countries?

Think for yourself.


I do think for myself, I've lived overseas! I'm well traveled and whats taken place in America is sad!

During the 9/11 I was in Australia having lunch in one of the many pubs. The Twin towers flashed across the T.V screen, as the tower toppled down, people were cheering on, running into the street yelling, the great whore is coming down. It was very frighten to see this and be an American so far from home, trying to get back was hard, all flights were held over. We are no longer viewed as the strong ones, China is now feared, we no longer have the power, not the good standing we had with many in the past.

If I want know about slaver/ communism, I'll ask family members who are more then willing to share their stories !

[rgcraig]

I do think for myself, I've lived overseas! I'm well traveled and whats taken place in America is sad!

During the 9/11 I was in Australia having lunch in one of the many pubs. The Twin towers flashed across the T.V screen, as the tower toppled down, people were cheering on, running into the street yelling, the great whore is coming down. It was very frighten to see this and be an American so far from home, trying to get back was hard, all flights were held over. We are no longer viewed as the strong ones, China is now feared, we no longer have the power, not the good standing we had with many in the past.

If I want know about slaver/ communism, I'll ask family members who are more then willing to share their stories !

You shouldn't have to ask your family members since you've said we are salves and communist already. If you believe that, then you know first hand.

No one is saying American doesn't have problems, but it seems your ideas of evil is a bit excessive.

One of American's biggest problems is what it was founded on - - our freedom.

[Michael Phelps]

I do think for myself, I've lived overseas! I'm well traveled and whats taken place in America is sad!

During the 9/11 I was in Australia having lunch in one of the many pubs. The Twin towers flashed across the T.V screen, as the tower toppled down, people were cheering on, running into the street yelling, the great whore is coming down. It was very frighten to see this and be an American so far from home, trying to get back was hard, all flights were held over. We are no longer viewed as the strong ones, China is now feared, we no longer have the power, not the good standing we had with many in the past.

If I want know about slaver/ communism, I'll ask family members who are more then willing to share their stories !

I'm not trying to be rude, but your justification makes NO sense whatsoever. And, I have always found that people who think for themselves can articulate their own thoughts, and do not cut and paste diatribes from websites.

[HappyTown]

You shouldn't have to ask your family members since you've said we are salves and communist already. If you believe that, then you know first hand.

I said I can ask my family members, some been black slaves, some were in Jewish camps!

No one is saying American doesn't have problems, but it seems your ideas of evil is a bit excessive.


This is a forum, one view their thoughts on matters. I don't walk around all day thinking on these issues. I have a life, I live it!


One of American's biggest problems is what it was founded on - - our freedom.

Agree! It's what made us great!

[HappyTown]

I'm not trying to be rude, but your justification makes NO sense whatsoever. And, I have always found that people who think for themselves can articulate their own thoughts, and do not cut and paste diatribes from websites.

I cut and paste due to the fact I don't have the time to spend on the internet, we live off the grid, solar power . As soon as we move onto our property will have electric power...:)

[Michael Phelps]

I said I can ask my family members, some been black slaves, some were in Jewish camps!



This is a forum, one view their thoughts on matters. I don't walk around all day thinking on these issues. I have a life, I live it!



Agree! It's what made us great!

Lol, ok, I just have to address this -

If your relatives were in Jewish camps, they weren't in America.

And, if America is great, how can it be a communist country that makes slaves of its people?

HappyFeet, I really don't think you know what you think.......I think you're swayed by whoever is sending you internet articles!

[rgcraig]

After this election leaving this place might be wise! The good ole USA, she is far from what it was intended to be. We are slave, yet to delusional and caught up in the lies to realize it!

I said I can ask my family members, some been black slaves, some were in Jewish camps!



Really? I believe slavery in America was abolished 1875. You aren't making sense..........this is PAST history not the state of our country now. You have family alive today that have been slaves or are slaves today?

[dansamy]

1875

[rgcraig]

1875

Now that I have my glasses on......thanks!

[Jekyll]

I said I can ask my family members, some been black slaves, some were in Jewish camps!



This is a forum, one view their thoughts on matters. I don't walk around all day thinking on these issues. I have a life, I live it!



Agree! It's what made us great!
This post answered a question of mine.

[Jekyll]

I do think for myself, I've lived overseas! I'm well traveled and whats taken place in America is sad!

During the 9/11 I was in Australia having lunch in one of the many pubs. The Twin towers flashed across the T.V screen, as the tower toppled down, people were cheering on, running into the street yelling, the great whore is coming down. It was very frighten to see this and be an American so far from home, trying to get back was hard, all flights were held over. We are no longer viewed as the strong ones, China is now feared, we no longer have the power, not the good standing we had with many in the past.

If I want know about slaver/ communism, I'll ask family members who are more then willing to share their stories !
Moreover, I do not believe that people were running out of the pubs IN AUSTRALIA saying that the great whore is falling down.

You can think America is evil all you want. I challenge you to point to me a more Godly country. I further challenge you to permanently reside in such a country.

[HappyTown]

Moreover, I do not believe that people were running out of the pubs IN AUSTRALIA saying that the great whore is falling down.

You can think America is evil all you want. I challenge you to point to me a more Godly country. I further challenge you to permanently reside in such a country.

Yes they were! I was shocked and scared by what we wittiness! I'm not even going to reply to the rest!

[rgcraig]

Yes they were! I was shocked and scared by what we wittiness! I'm not even going to reply to the rest!Not surprised since you weren't making a lot of sense with the "we are slaves" and "I have family members that were slaves" comments.

[Blsdbeyondmsure]

I do think for myself, I've lived overseas! I'm well traveled and whats taken place in America is sad!

During the 9/11 I was in Australia having lunch in one of the many pubs. The Twin towers flashed across the T.V screen, as the tower toppled down, people were cheering on, running into the street yelling, the great whore is coming down. It was very frighten to see this and be an American so far from home, trying to get back was hard, all flights were held over. We are no longer viewed as the strong ones, China is now feared, we no longer have the power, not the good standing we had with many in the past.

If I want know about slaver/ communism, I'll ask family members who are more then willing to share their stories !


I'm sorry, this doesn't pass the sniff test to me. Unless you were in some strange commune with a group a people who have your same ideas, I just don't believe that happened in Australia. I have been to Australia several times & the people have always been generous & kind in their views of America. Also, I was in Australia when the attack on the tourist area of Indonesia happened where ~200 Australians were killed. The Australian media was in complete solidarity with the US on the war on terror.

Also, I was in China during 9/11 with a group from across Asia & everyone was respectful, concerned & horrified. If I recall the only cheering that was broadly reported was from the Middle East, big surprise, huh?

[Michael Phelps]

I'm sorry, this doesn't pass the sniff test to me. Unless you were in some strange commune with a group a people who have your same ideas, I just don't believe that happened in Australia. I have been to Australia several times & the people have always been generous & kind in their views of America. Also, I was in Australia when the attack on the tourist area of Indonesia happened where ~200 Australians were killed. The Australian media was in complete solidarity with the US on the war on terror.

Also, I was in China during 9/11 with a group from across Asia & everyone was respectful, concerned & horrified. If I recall the only cheering that was broadly reported was from the Middle East, big surprise, huh?

I totally agree with this assessment. I think HappyClown is trying to make her point with some "evangelistic speaking". There are only a few folks who would even consider America the "great whore". Maybe if she was over there attending a prophecy conference, or something, but I highly doubt John Q. Public in Australia views America as the "Great Whore", much less the Twin Towers in NYC.

[TRFrance]

You all need to realize how much the average person, not blindly married to any political party is tired of such double talk and illogical reasoning. This amount of Senate time stat is more than misleading, it is a GOP talking point that is not even logical. The crazy thing is that the Die-hard Republicans on this forum always accuses the Dems of just blindly buying into propaganda. In my opinion both sides are equally guilty and it drives me crazy. I just don't have the energy anymore
And yet you consider to bang your head against the wall...over and over again.
(sigh)
One wonders why you do this to yourself.

Maybe, on some level, you kinda like it (?)

[Ferd]

Well, if HT thinks she's been insulted, she can report the post.

However, I must admit, if anyone admits to me that they are not going to vote, and then proceed to gripe about the leadership of this country, I might be inclined to tell them to shut up too.

However, since that post, HT has indicated she'll write in a name. Which will be a wasted vote, but a vote nonetheless.

Dear Happy
Town, I understand you are considering writing in a name in the election.

I would be pleased if you would consider the folllowing:

Ferdinand Sebastian O'Donald Miller

Ferdinand was my dearly departed cat. He was a good cat and worthy of a vote for president.

Thank you.

[tstew]

And yet you consider to bang your head against the wall...over and over again.
(sigh)
One wonders why you do this to yourself.

Maybe, on some level, you kinda like it (?)

I just think that the stakes are too high and it almost feels like the whole political process is an episode of "Punk'd", and the American people are the stiffs without a clue.

[Michael Phelps]

I just think that the stakes are too high and it almost feels like the whole political process is an episode of "Punk'd", and the American people are the stiffs without a clue.

"Punk'd"? I have no idea what you're talking about........is that an Old Time Radio show?:dance

[HappyTown]

Posted by tstew View Post
You all need to realize how much the average person, not blindly married to any political party is tired of such double talk and illogical reasoning. This amount of Senate time stat is more than misleading, it is a GOP talking point that is not even logical. The crazy thing is that the Die-hard Republicans on this forum always accuses the Dems of just blindly buying into propaganda. In my opinion both sides are equally guilty and it drives me crazy. I just don't have the energy anymore

Your so right! I’ve long been convinced that the Amerikan sheeple will get whatever they’re told to get when it comes to Election 2008.

[tstew]

"Punk'd"? I have no idea what you're talking about........is that an Old Time Radio show?:dance

No, you have to have a monitor to pick it up :)

[rgcraig]

Your so right! I’ve long been convinced that the Amerikan sheeple will get whatever they’re told to get when it comes to Election 2008.


You are one of them.

[Esther]

You are one of them.

Ditto!

[HappyTown]

You are one of them.

I find is unbelievably bizarre that the Republican campaign has endorsed McInsane in the first place, he’s a absolutely terrible candidate for President, irregardless of which party affiliation floats your boat. Then, the selection of Palin is truly terrifying for sane Americans. The more I read about this wacked out voodoo princess the more scared I become.

And this is the BEST the Repulicans can do? We are all in SERIOUS TROUBLE.

Don’t worry, I’ll get around to lambasting Obama / Osama soon enough. The real sadness is both parties are so corrupt that they are absolutely certain to set this country on a deeper death spiral. If you really want to help accelerate the crash, and absolutely MUST vote, then vote for the McInsane ticket, you will be sure to help things along even faster.

[Michael Phelps]

I find is unbelievably bizarre that the Republican campaign has endorsed McInsane in the first place, he’s a absolutely terrible candidate for President, irregardless of which party affiliation floats your boat. Then, the selection of Palin is truly terrifying for sane Americans. The more I read about this wacked out voodoo princess the more scared I become.

And this is the BEST the Repulicans can do? We are all in SERIOUS TROUBLE.

Don’t worry, I’ll get around to lambasting Obama / Osama soon enough. The real sadness is both parties are so corrupt that they are absolutely certain to set this country on a deeper death spiral. If you really want to help accelerate the crash, and absolutely MUST vote, then vote for the McInsane ticket, you will be sure to help things along even faster.

Hmmmm, HappyTown, who used your login to post this? This is much more concise, legible, and articulate than you usually post.

[HappyTown]

Hmmmm, HappyTown, who used your login to post this? This is much more concise, legible, and articulate than you usually post.

I had my husband type for me. Thanks

He alot better with the English language then I. English was not spoken much in my home growing up ....

[Michael Phelps]

I had my husband type for me. Thanks

He alot better with the English language then I. English was not spoken much in my home growing up ....

Hmmm, ok. Lol.

I have another theory, but we'll go with yours for now...........:dance

[HappyTown]

Hmmm, ok. Lol.

I have another theory, but we'll go with yours for now...........:dance

Your more then welcome to write my husband!

[tstew]

Hmmmm, HappyTown, who used your login to post this? This is much more concise, legible, and articulate than you usually post.

MP, you're on fire tonight. :ursofunny:ursofunny

[TRFrance]

I find is unbelievably bizarre that the Republican campaign has endorsed McInsane in the first place, he’s a absolutely terrible candidate for President, irregardless of which party affiliation floats your boat. Then, the selection of Palin is truly terrifying for sane Americans. The more I read about this wacked out voodoo princess the more scared I become.

And this is the BEST the Repulicans can do? We are all in SERIOUS TROUBLE.

Don’t worry, I’ll get around to lambasting Obama / Osama soon enough. The real sadness is both parties are so corrupt that they are absolutely certain to set this country on a deeper death spiral. If you really want to help accelerate the crash, and absolutely MUST vote, then vote for the McInsane ticket, you will be sure to help things along even faster.
Really? I seriously doubt that.

Your steady "lambasting" of McCain vs. lambasting of Obama is running something like a 20 to 1 ratio right now.

If you want to be a McCain basher, that's your right; it's a free country.

But don't bother pretending to be impartial. We've already seen your true colors here.

[TRFrance]

The Democrats are getting nervous, and it's almost comical to watch them now flailing desperately.

Funniest one I've heard from them lately:

http://images.cafepress.com/product/24232699v9_240x240_Front.jpg

Hah-haah!
Now that's ...rich!:ursofunny

[Michael Phelps]

Your more then welcome to write my husband!

Give me his address.

[Michael Phelps]

Really? I seriously doubt that.

Your steady "lambasting" of McCain vs. lambasting of Obama is running something like a 20 to 1 ratio right now.

If you want to be a McCain basher, that's your right; it's a free country.

But don't bother pretending to be impartial. We've already seen your true colors here.

I believe you're correct, TR, we did see her true colors, lol! She has been stirring the pot, playing dumb, and seeing what kind of reactions she can get......but, on this post, she forgot, and actually posted intelligently.

Busted! :ursofunny

[Esther]

I find is unbelievably bizarre that the Republican campaign has endorsed McInsane in the first place, he’s a absolutely terrible candidate for President, irregardless of which party affiliation floats your boat. Then, the selection of Palin is truly terrifying for sane Americans. The more I read about this wacked out voodoo princess the more scared I become.

And this is the BEST the Repulicans can do? We are all in SERIOUS TROUBLE.

Don’t worry, I’ll get around to lambasting Obama / Osama soon enough. The real sadness is both parties are so corrupt that they are absolutely certain to set this country on a deeper death spiral. If you really want to help accelerate the crash, and absolutely MUST vote, then vote for the McInsane ticket, you will be sure to help things along even faster.

I'm a sane American and I find her selection refreshing NOT terrifying. What I do find terrifying is Obama the Muslim IMO.

[SOUNWORTHY]

I think we've all fallen for HT's posts hook line and sinker..not sure who she/he is but not sure they are for real. The posts need to be ignored.:evilglee

[TRFrance]

I think we've all fallen for HT's posts hook line and sinker..not sure who she/he is but not sure they are for real. The posts need to be ignored.:evilglee

Yeah.... I'm starting to take UnhappyTown with a grain of salt now.

He/she seems to delight in stirring up the pot, and that's about it.

[SOUNWORTHY]

They used to be called Muck Rakers!!:club

[HappyTown]

Give me his address.

Sure thing!

[HappyTown]

Yeah.... I'm starting to take UnhappyTown with a grain of salt now.

He/she seems to delight in stirring up the pot, and that's about it.

And that's your right. Frankly I really don't care, nor do I feel I need to prove anything to strangers! My family and close friends know the truth and that's all that matter to me....

[Jekyll]

r

[All4one]

Lets drill !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jekyll]

If you only care about what your family thinks why are you here? Your support for yourboy oscama isn't worth 2 cents. He is freefalling faster than Oprah running downhill for a donut.

[Michael Phelps]

Sure thing!

Not his email address, you would probably give me your own. Actually, I would only believe if I met you both in person, and I doubt that will happen.

So, I remain...........skeptical.

[HappyTown]

Not his email address, you would probably give me your own. Actually, I would only believe if I met you both in person, and I doubt that will happen.

So, I remain...........skeptical.

My hubby sent you his e-mail so anytime you want chat he be more then happy too! Your call.

[Michael Phelps]

My hubby sent you his e-mail so anytime you want chat he be more then happy too! Your call.

No thanks. Not that important to me, I should have never responded to your offer to send his address. I can send you an email address and claim to be many different people, so that proves nothing.

I don't have the time. Besides, if there truly IS a husband, he obviously espouses the same garbage that you do, so I won't waste my time.

[HappyTown]

No thanks. Not that important to me, I should have never responded to your offer to send his address. I can send you an email address and claim to be many different people, so that proves nothing.

I don't have the time. Besides, if there truly IS a husband, he obviously espouses the same garbage that you do, so I won't waste my time.

LOl! Well at lest he lets me voice my opinion!!!! Yeah your all talk no action!

[Michael Phelps]

LOl! Well at lest he lets me voice my opinion!!!! Yeah your all talk no action!

Oops, you got me! I'm almost as bad as those people who don't vote but gripe about the government!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ursofunny

[HappyTown]

Oops, you got me! I'm almost as bad as those people who don't vote but gripe about the government!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ursofunny

I'll be a voteing, just not onto your brand of madness!

[Jermyn Davidson]

So is it ok that I post something concerning the original topic of this thread?

[Jermyn Davidson]

JEKYL,

Your "BOTTOM LINE" Thread is not based on the truth-- again it's a an email, spreading lies and exaggeration.


http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html


Please check your facts before posting them as such.

Have a nice day!

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Favors new drilling offshore US
> JOHN McCAIN Yes
> BARAK OBAMA No



But Friday (8/01/08), Obama admitted that something is better than nothing and praised a bipartisan energy plan from the Senate that combines alternative energy innovation, financial, nuclear energy and drilling proposals.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/02/campaign.wrap/

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
> JOHN McCAIN Yes
> BARAK OBAMA No



REALITY CHECK!

Sen Obama is quoted on 7/10/08, saying that he would appoint judges who are "competent and capable" and who "interpret the law".

http://obamaaintjesus.blogspot.com/2008/07/obama-veers-to-right-but-does-he-need.html

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Served in the US Armed Forces
> JOHN McCAIN Yes
> BARAK OBAMA No


This is the truth.

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Amount of time served in the US Senate
> JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
> BARAK OBAMA 173 DAYS



REALITY CHECK!

1997 - 2004
Then State Sen. Obama served in Illinois, and became the Chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee. He accomplished much more there and is documented on wikipedia.

2004/2005 - February 10, 2007
U.S. Sen. Obama served in DC as a U.S. Sen, recognized as the 11th most powerful U.S. Sen., voted in favor of the Secure Fence Act, co-sponsored the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, which was signed into law in September 2007, and has many more accomplishments as a U.S. Senator, documented on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Will institute a socialized national health care plan
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes


REALITY CHECK!

Below is a link to a balanced critique of Sen. Obama's health care plan.
NEWS FLASH-- NOT EVERYONE IS GUARANTEED COVERAGE UNDER SEN. OBAMA'S PLAN!!!

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=05&year=2007&base_name=the_obama_health_care_plan

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes


REALITY CHECK!

Sen. Obama on late term abortions, "...I have repeatedly said that I think it's entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don't think that "mental distress" qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term. Otherwise, as long as there is such a medical exception in place, I think we can prohibit late-term abortions."

However, he is CLEARLY a PRO-CHOICE Democrat.

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes


REALITY CHECK!

Sen. Obama calls for a 16-month troop withdrawal timetable.

In an interview with CNN, McCain had kind words.

“I think it’s a pretty good timetable, as we should — or horizons for withdrawal,” he added, echoing a phrase President Bush used in recent days. “But they have to be based on conditions on the ground.”

McCain has long maintained that conditions on the ground are a key consideration in any withdrawal of American troops. And he has argued that Obama would withdraw troops based on his timetable without regard to conditions in Iraq, although Obama says he would listen to U.S. military commanders about those conditions.


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/26/mccain-offers-praise-for-obamas-troop-withdrawal-timetable/

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Supports gun ownership rights
> JOHN McCAINYes
> BARAK OBAMA No

REALITY CHECK!

Below is a link to Sen. Obama's views concerning Gun Control issues.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm


From his acceptance speech (if you bothered to watch it) you should have noticed that he wants to find a compromise that allows sportsmen and law abiding citizens to defend themselves while addressing the serious illegal/unregistered weapon issues of American major cities.

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Supports homosexual marriage
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes


REALITY CHECK!

Sen. Obama said on CNN, ""Well, I think that marriage has a religious connotation in this society, in our culture, that makes it very difficult to disentangle from the civil aspects of marriage. And as a consequence, it would be extraordinarily difficult and a distraction to try to build a consensus around marriage for gays and lesbians. What we can do is form civil unions that provide all the civil rights that marriage entails to same-sex couples. And that is something that I have consistently been in favor of. And I think that the vast majority of Americans don't want to see gay and lesbian couples discriminated against when it comes to hospital visitation and so on."

www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid44651.asp

[Jermyn Davidson]

From jekyl:


> Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes


Which programs? Which taxes will be increased? This too vague for me to properly research and challenge.

You're trying to play on stereotype of Democrats with this. However our current President has placed our government in a precarious financial position where I don't see any way around an eventual tax increase of some sort. That's just the REALITY of our situation, a consequence of Mr. Bush's lack of spending discipline.

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Voted against making English the official language
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes

REALITY CHECK!

This is the truth.

Sen. Obama believes this to be a State's rights issue, citing that at least two states (NM & HI) which have Constitutions that already provide for a bi-lingual government.

http://www.positivelybarack.com/2007/10/25/obama-on-english-as-the-official-language/

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
> JOHN McCAIN No
> BARAK OBAMA Yes

REALITY CHECK!

This is the truth.

Both Sen. Obama & Sen. McCain voted for the same bill to grant illegals SSI benefits. Maybe they did so because there may be more to the issue than what we know. See link below.

Sen. McCain has since flip-flopped on this issue, in an effort to appear to be the Conservative he is not.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24987

[Jermyn Davidson]

> CAPITAL GAINS TAX
>
> MCCAIN
> 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain
> does not propose any change in existing home sales income
> tax.
> OBAMA
> 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect
> you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay
> 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward
> retirement and would like to down-size your home or move
> into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from
> your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely
> affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their
> homes as part of their retirement income.)
>

REALITY CHECK!

“The top capital-gains rate for families making more than $250,000 would return to 20% -- the lowest rate that existed in the 1990s and the rate President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut. A 20% rate is almost a third lower than the rate President Reagan set in 1986,” wrote Obama advisors Jason Furman and Austan Goolsbee in Thursday’s Wall Street Journal.

Sen. Obama NEVER SAID that he would raise the capital gains tax to 28%!!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/obama-clarifies.html

[Jermyn Davidson]

From Jekyl:


> DIVIDEND TAX
>
> MCCAIN
> 15% (no change)
> OBAMA
> 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money
> invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds,
> life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays
> or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of
> the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The
> experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and
> capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do
> absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

REALITY CHECK!

The above is false.

Sen. Obama's plan for the Dividend Tax:

--- The top dividend tax rate would remain the current 15% for those earning less than $250,000, but would rise to 20% for those earning above that threshold.

--- For single people, the tax increases above would apply to those earning more than $200,000.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2008/08/what-would-pres.html

[Jermyn Davidson]

>
> INCOME TAX
>
> MCCAIN
> (no changes)
> Single making 30K - tax $4,500
> Single making 50K - tax $12,500
> Single making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 60K- tax $9,000
> Married making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 125K - tax $31,250
> OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
> Single making 30K - tax $8,400
> Single making 50K - tax $14,000
> Single making 75K - tax $23,250
> Married making 60K - tax $16,800
> Married making 75K - tax $21,000
> Married making 125K - tax $38,750
> Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

REALITY CHECK!

BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS!

Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals are fully in place.
MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161 -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,000 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm

[Jekyll]

1399, if you believe oscama tells the truth, I have nothing to say to you. He has a natural talent to tickle itching ears.

[HappyTown]

JEKYL,

Your "BOTTOM LINE" Thread is not based on the truth-- again it's a an email, spreading lies and exaggeration.


http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html


Please check your facts before posting them as such.

Have a nice day!

Thanks for posting the facts!

[Jekyll]

Thanks for posting the facts!

Why am I not surprised? You are believing oscama's facts to be truth? :crazy

Wow, you could knock me over with a blade of grass.




Not.

[HappyTown]

Why am I not surprised? You are believing oscama's facts to be truth? :crazy

Wow, you could knock me over with a blade of grass.




Not.

You believe McCain to be true! 1399 posted what was really said, not your made up half bake stuff! So get over it!

[Michael Phelps]

You believe McCain to be true! 1399 posted what was really said, not your made up half bake stuff! So get over it!

Are you really this naive, SnappyFrown, or are you still pulling our legs? Or is this your "husband", wink wink?

[HappyTown]

Are you really this naive, SnappyFrown, or are you still pulling our legs? Or is this your "husband", wink wink?

You decide?????

[Michael Phelps]

You decide?????

I've already decided:tease

Carry on!

[HappyTown]

I've already decided:tease

Carry on!

Good decision on your part! ....;)

[rgcraig]

Good decision on your part! ....;)

I'm remembering back when your daughter's prom pic was posted and I'm confused.

[HappyTown]

I'm remembering back when your daughter's prom pic was posted and I'm confused.

???? I've not posted pic of my kids here! Now I'm confused, lol!

[HappyTown]

The only person I have maybe meant here in person would be Sister Alvear, back in MT Camp Meet in the late 90's. My husband spent time with her husband talking about Brazil, my husband spoke about this with him. They prayed about this matter togeather, later I meant who I'd say was Bro Alvear and Sister Alvear.

Bro Alvear said I reminded him of his daughter we looked aliked. Bro Alvear gave hubby a note, writing in Portuguese and then English saying, Go to Brazil! I asked Sister Alvear about this, and we still have the note, Sister Alvear say she remember something like this happening.

[Jermyn Davidson]

hey folks, I can't believe that my tireless research gets hardly a nod....

I posted the facts, the truth-- most of my links to verify the truth are not to Obama sites.

I was really hoping some one would take the time out to at least resaerch my research.


Jekyl, the "bottom line" you posted comes from an email that has been declared to be almost completely untrue! This designation came from an "outside" non-political source.


My friends, can anyone tell me when was the last time SO MANY LIES and exaggerations were being spread about a Presidential candidate?


I don't understand what's going on here--

WHY all the lies?
WHY all the exaggerations?

WHY won't folks take the time out to research stuff for themselves?


WHY won't people accept the truth when it is presented to them, verified by sources who have nothing to gain or lose by posting the truth?

[HappyTown]

hey folks, I can't believe that my tireless research gets hardly a nod....

I posted the facts, the truth-- most of my links to verify the truth are not to Obama sites.

I was really hoping some one would take the time out to at least resaerch my research.


Jekyl, the "bottom line" you posted comes from an email that has been declared to be almost completely untrue! This designation came from an "outside" non-political source.


My friends, can anyone tell me when was the last time SO MANY LIES and exaggerations were being spread about a Presidential candidate?


I don't understand what's going on here--

WHY all the lies?
WHY all the exaggerations?

WHY won't folks take the time out to research stuff for themselves?


WHY won't people accept the truth when it is presented to them, verified by sources who have nothing to gain or lose by posting the truth?

People are sheep! Thanks, I did look!

[Jekyll]

hey folks, I can't believe that my tireless research gets hardly a nod....

I posted the facts, the truth-- most of my links to verify the truth are not to Obama sites.

I was really hoping some one would take the time out to at least resaerch my research.


Jekyl, the "bottom line" you posted comes from an email that has been declared to be almost completely untrue! This designation came from an "outside" non-political source.


My friends, can anyone tell me when was the last time SO MANY LIES and exaggerations were being spread about a Presidential candidate?


I don't understand what's going on here--

WHY all the lies?
WHY all the exaggerations?

WHY won't folks take the time out to research stuff for themselves?


WHY won't people accept the truth when it is presented to them, verified by sources who have nothing to gain or lose by posting the truth?

Lol, tireless research? You would have done better to have taken a nap.

Your sources and citations are largely from pro-oscama sites, blogs (opinions masquerading as cutting edge news), wikipedia (I feel sorry for the poor souls who consider this a quoteable source), and a gay and lesbian magazine (I couldn't care less what that lame source would have to say about anyone - and you call that truth and facts???)



Your facts are built on quicksand and your hero worship of this Arab diplomat masquerading as an American Senator is itself sickening. You call what we clearly see for ourselves a lie? You are a sheep following a minion who follows the father of lies.

[Light]

hey folks, I can't believe that my tireless research gets hardly a nod....

I posted the facts, the truth-- most of my links to verify the truth are not to Obama sites.

I was really hoping some one would take the time out to at least resaerch my research.


Jekyl, the "bottom line" you posted comes from an email that has been declared to be almost completely untrue! This designation came from an "outside" non-political source.


My friends, can anyone tell me when was the last time SO MANY LIES and exaggerations were being spread about a Presidential candidate?


I don't understand what's going on here--

WHY all the lies?
WHY all the exaggerations?

WHY won't folks take the time out to research stuff for themselves?


WHY won't people accept the truth when it is presented to them, verified by sources who have nothing to gain or lose by posting the truth?

You can lead a Jeykll to water but you can't make him drink. I think of the big bird with his head in the sand when I see people like J.

[Ferd]

hey folks, I can't believe that my tireless research gets hardly a nod....

I posted the facts, the truth-- most of my links to verify the truth are not to Obama sites.

I was really hoping some one would take the time out to at least resaerch my research.


Jekyl, the "bottom line" you posted comes from an email that has been declared to be almost completely untrue! This designation came from an "outside" non-political source.


My friends, can anyone tell me when was the last time SO MANY LIES and exaggerations were being spread about a Presidential candidate?

I don't understand what's going on here--

WHY all the lies?
WHY all the exaggerations?

WHY won't folks take the time out to research stuff for themselves?


WHY won't people accept the truth when it is presented to them, verified by sources who have nothing to gain or lose by posting the truth?

Yes sir. i can tell you. Every four years since 1796.

We like to think our politics has somehow just gotten worse. I dont know if that is Naiveté or if it s huberous on our part, but things are certainly no worse today than they have been since the beginning.

Politics has always been a rough and tumble sport and it certainly isnt for the faint of heart.

[Jekyll]

You can lead a Jeykll to water but you can't make him drink. I think of the big bird with his head in the sand when I see people like J.

uh...ok... :hmmm

[TRFrance]

Your facts are built on quicksand and your hero worship of this Arab diplomat masquerading as an American Senator is itself sickening. You call what we clearly see for ourselves a lie? You are a sheep following a minion who follows the father of lies.
Arab ?

When did Obama become Arab?
Are you serious with this?

[rgcraig]

Arab.

How do you pronounce it?

A rab?

Air rib?



Someone at work was written up for pronouncing it A rab while making a presentation.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Lol, tireless research? You would have done better to have taken a nap.

Your sources and citations are largely from pro-oscama sites, blogs (opinions masquerading as cutting edge news), wikipedia (I feel sorry for the poor souls who consider this a quoteable source), and a gay and lesbian magazine (I couldn't care less what that lame source would have to say about anyone - and you call that truth and facts???)



Your facts are built on quicksand and your hero worship of this Arab diplomat masquerading as an American Senator is itself sickening. You call what we clearly see for ourselves a lie? You are a sheep following a minion who follows the father of lies.


Jekyl:

you posted a list that comes largely from an email that was circulated-- that same email was declared to be almost 100% false by a non-political source.

How can you feel good about spreading stuff that is simply not true?

Even if you don't like his politics, Christians should not spread stuff statements that are not true.

You're no better than a tale bearer when you spread statements that are not true.

You should have checked your facts before posting them as "bottom line facts".

Your bottom line facts are made up of mainly lies and exaggerations.

Maybe you should have taken the nap before deciding to post such falsehoods.


Sen. Obama is not Arab, but if he was, so what? He is still an American!

Or did you not know that there was a such thing as Arab-Americans?


Post the truth as the truth and make sure it's true before you post it!

[HappyTown]

Jekyl:

you posted a list that comes largely from an email that was circulated-- that same email was declared to be almost 100% false by a non-political source.

How can you feel good about spreading stuff that is simply not true?

Even if you don't like his politics, Christians should not spread stuff statements that are not true.

You're no better than a tale bearer when you spread statements that are not true.

You should have checked your facts before posting them as "bottom line facts".

Your bottom line facts are made up of mainly lies and exaggerations.

Maybe you should have taken the nap before deciding to post such falsehoods.


Sen. Obama is not Arab, but if he was, so what? He is still an American!

Or did you not know that there was a such thing as Arab-Americans?


Post the truth as the truth and make sure it's true before you post it!

Truth does not seem to matter. They McCain and Obama are both dirty in my book!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Lol, tireless research? You would have done better to have taken a nap.

Your sources and citations are largely from pro-oscama sites, blogs (opinions masquerading as cutting edge news), wikipedia (I feel sorry for the poor souls who consider this a quoteable source), and a gay and lesbian magazine (I couldn't care less what that lame source would have to say about anyone - and you call that truth and facts???)



Jekyll, you post whatever you want, without regard to truth and criticize the one who corrects you-- as if to belittle someone makes what they say less true.

But you again have stated something that is not true.


Re: my links

link 1) - fact check . org
link 2) - CNN
link 3) - blog, but slate.com verifies the fact www.slate.com/id/2195008/
link 4) - wikipedia
link 5) - blog
link 6) - fox news
link 7) - on the issues . org
link 8) - advocate.com (homosexual site CRITICIZING Sen. Obama's stand AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE duh!)
link 9) - actual pro Obama website
link 10 ) - human events . com
link 11) - abc news ( the blogs are responses to the News Story that quotes Sen Obama's stance on the Cap Gains Tax )
link 12) - L. A. Times ( the blogs are responses to the News Story)
link 13) - CNN



So out of 13 references, 2 were from blogs, 1 from wikipedia, 1 from a homosexual site and 1 from an actual pro - Obama site.


THAT'S NOT LARGELY ANYTHING YOU SAID IT WAS!!!

I WISH YOU WOULD STICK TO THE FACTS!!!

YOUR BOTTOM LINE THREAD IS A FARCE WITH THE INITIAL EMAIL FULL OF LIES AND EXAGGERATIONS!

[SOUNWORTHY]

Truth does not seem to matter. They McCain and Obama are both dirty in my book!

Not sure anyone is reading your book anymore.:ursofunny

[Jekyll]

Jekyll, you post whatever you want, without regard to truth and criticize the one who corrects you-- as if to belittle someone makes what they say less true.

But you again have stated something that is not true.


Re: my links

link 1) - fact check . org Controlled by Democratic Party
link 2) - CNN Public relations for the Liberal Democratic party
link 3) - blog, but slate.com verifies the fact www.slate.com/id/2195008/ (http://www.slate.com/id/2195008/) BLOG= Opinion
link 4) - wikipedia = Opinion
link 5) - blog = opinion
link 6) - fox news the most balanced of any of the news organizations
link 7) - on the issues . org = blog = opinion
link 8) - advocate.com (homosexual site CRITICIZING Sen. Obama's stand AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE duh!) = not worthy my time, anything not as far away as the universe as far as liberalism is criticized by them
link 9) - actual pro Obama website like most of the previous
link 10 ) - human events . com = opinion
link 11) - abc news ( the blogs are responses to the News Story that quotes Sen Obama's stance on the Cap Gains Tax ) again, liberal media
link 12) - L. A. Times ( the blogs are responses to the News Story) again liberal media
link 13) - CNN Clinton News Network, oSCAMa's public relations outlet



So out of 13 references, 2 were from blogs, 1 from wikipedia, 1 from a homosexual site and 1 from an actual pro - Obama site.


THAT'S NOT LARGELY ANYTHING YOU SAID IT WAS!!!

I WISH YOU WOULD STICK TO THE FACTS!!!

YOUR BOTTOM LINE THREAD IS A FARCE WITH THE INITIAL EMAIL FULL OF LIES AND EXAGGERATIONS!

I can't help you if you consider opinions to be fact. You have not disproved one of the statements I have made in the opening post.

[Jekyll]

Arab ?

When did Obama become Arab?
Are you serious with this?

Common sense... does Barak Hussein Obama sound more like 1. Cassius Clay; or, 2. Muhammad Ali?? (No, this is not what I base my deductions on, just an interesting point)

His father is a Kenyan Muslim. Does anyone here know anything about militant Muslims? Do you think for one instance that they will betray their true alliances before their "time" has come? Absolutely not.

His departure from radical Christianity was well orchestrated and planned. His disdain and public display of anti-patriotism is sympathetic to the very terrorists who wish to destroy America.

Can I prove line and letter that he is Muslim? Probably not.
Can you prove he isn't. Absolutely not.

I'm not willing to put my country on the line on such a foolish bet. Everything in his life is a lie, including the nonsense he blabbers about at everyone of his campaign stops. The press dresses him up and puffs him up very well. That alone is an obvious indication. I've personally seen his plane, not one stitch of a symbol of America displayed.

He sure wants to change America all right. Not towards God, not towards ethical behavior and certainly not towards its roots.

Call me a liar and call my posts lies all you want (Not you specifically, TR). Doesn't make you right and me wrong. This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on, it's painfully obvious and I'm sad for the "Christians" who have any sympathies for this hack.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I can't help you if you consider opinions to be fact. You have not disproved one of the statements I have made in the opening post.

Jekyll

The stuff you have posted is not true. CNN, ABC the news outlets don't just tell lies.

I have disproved most of your statements as most of your statements were just not true.

I can't help if the only news source you believe is Fox -- which is not all that fair and balanced.

Oh and slate.com is not a blog.

[MikeinAR]

Common sense... does Barak Hussein Obama sound more like 1. Cassius Clay; or, 2. Muhammad Ali?? (No, this is not what I base my deductions on, just an interesting point)

His father is a Kenyan Muslim. Does anyone here know anything about militant Muslims? Do you think for one instance that they will betray their true alliances before their "time" has come? Absolutely not.

His departure from radical Christianity was well orchestrated and planned. His disdain and public display of anti-patriotism is sympathetic to the very terrorists who wish to destroy America.

Can I prove line and letter that he is Muslim? Probably not.
Can you prove he isn't. Absolutely not.

I'm not willing to put my country on the line on such a foolish bet. Everything in his life is a lie, including the nonsense he blabbers about at everyone of his campaign stops. The press dresses him up and puffs him up very well. That alone is an obvious indication. I've personally seen his plane, not one stitch of a symbol of America displayed.

He sure wants to change America all right. Not towards God, not towards ethical behavior and certainly not towards its roots.

Call me a liar and call my posts lies all you want (Not you specifically, TR). Doesn't make you right and me wrong. This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on, it's painfully obvious and I'm sad for the "Christians" who have any sympathies for this hack.

Anyone who claims Barack Obama is a Muslim either wants to malign the man, or simply has no clue. I'm not sure which is the case here.

He was around his father for a month during his childhood. Even if you believe his father was radical Muslim(of which there isn't a shred of evidence), why would you believe that he somehow imparted his radical religious views to him over a month of his lifetime?

Obama's never prayed in a mosque, never worshiped Allah or partaken of any of the tenants of the Muslim faith. To continue to allude to the fact, or insinuate that Barack Obama is a Muslim is simply untruthful.

It would take more faith to believe that the man is a Muslim, than it would to simply take him at his word and the word of countless reporters who've delved into his background(both Lib's and Con's) who say emphatically he's not Muslim.

Attack him because his values, beliefs, and positions are different than your's, but why malign and defame a person based on falsehood concerning his religion?

[Michael Phelps]

Anyone who claims Barack Obama is a Muslim either wants to malign the man, or simply has no clue. I'm not sure which is the case here.

He was around his father for a month during his childhood. Even if you believe his father was radical Muslim(of which there isn't a shred of evidence), why would you believe that he somehow imparted his radical religious views to him over a month of his lifetime?

Obama's never prayed in a mosque, never worshiped Allah or partaken of any of the tenants of the Muslim faith. To continue to allude to the fact, or insinuate that Barack Obama is a Muslim is simply untruthful.

It would take more faith to believe that the man is a Muslim, than it would to simply take him at his word and the word of countless reporters who've delved into his background(both Lib's and Con's) who say emphatically he's not Muslim.

Attack him because his values, beliefs, and positions are different than your's, but why malign and defame a person based on falsehood concerning his religion?

Is Barak Hussein Obama his given name, or did he change it? Is that the name on his birth certificate?

Seriously asking here, I've never heard.......

[Sister Alvear]

Just the name is scary...but as all know I am not political inclined however because of AFF I have tried to follow news about the election and I personally would never vote for Obama. His skin color means nothing to me I have adopted children that would make him look blond! Things he says bothers me...and of course some things I am sure are taken out of context but some or not...especially in his written works...

[Sister Alvear]

and to be fair McCain sure does have a lot of things about him that I do not like either...America really needs the help of the Lord. I pray everyday for our country.

[rgcraig]

Is Barak Hussein Obama his given name, or did he change it? Is that the name on his birth certificate?

Seriously asking here, I've never heard.......

Here's what is on the lawsuit against Obama:

Defendant, Barack Hussein Obama, alk/a Barry Soetoro, alkla Barry Obama, alk/a Barack Dunham, a/kla Barry Dunham [hereinafter "Obama"]

There is controversy whether he has an official birth certificate and there's records of him being born in two separate hospitals in Hawaii.

So who knows.

[Michael Phelps]

Here's what is on the lawsuit against Obama:

Defendant, Barack Hussein Obama, alk/a Barry Soetoro, alkla Barry Obama, alk/a Barack Dunham, a/kla Barry Dunham [hereinafter "Obama"]

There is controversy whether he has an official birth certificate and there's records of him being born in two separate hospitals in Hawaii.

So who knows.

My question is this - if he was born Barry Soetoro, who changed his name to Barak Obama, and when? If he changed his own name, why would he do that unless he espouses the Muslim beliefs?

[rgcraig]

My question is this - if he was born Barry Soetoro, who changed his name to Barak Obama, and when? If he changed his own name, why would he do that unless he espouses the Muslim beliefs?
Good question.

Apparently, he took his father's name.

[MikeinAR]

My question is this - if he was born Barry Soetoro, who changed his name to Barak Obama, and when? If he changed his own name, why would he do that unless he espouses the Muslim beliefs?

He wasn't born Barry Soetoro. He was born Barack Hussein Obama Jr. named after his Kenyan father. During his adolescence, his stepfather's name was Soetoro and in his father's absence, he started being identified by a nickname given to him "Barry" and his stepfather's last name Soetoro.

In his early 20's and searching for his identity as a half white, half black man, he decided to take back the African name given to him at birth.

After reading Newsweek and some other articles over the last year, that's what I've found.

[Jekyll]

Anyone who claims Barack Obama is a Muslim either wants to malign the man, or simply has no clue. I'm not sure which is the case here.

He was around his father for a month during his childhood. Even if you believe his father was radical Muslim(of which there isn't a shred of evidence), why would you believe that he somehow imparted his radical religious views to him over a month of his lifetime?

Obama's never prayed in a mosque, never worshiped Allah or partaken of any of the tenants of the Muslim faith. To continue to allude to the fact, or insinuate that Barack Obama is a Muslim is simply untruthful.

It would take more faith to believe that the man is a Muslim, than it would to simply take him at his word and the word of countless reporters who've delved into his background(both Lib's and Con's) who say emphatically he's not Muslim.

Attack him because his values, beliefs, and positions are different than your's, but why malign and defame a person based on falsehood concerning his religion?

When his religion is in direct opposition to God and human safety, yes, his religion is fair game. I don't believe it is falsehood.

How do YOU know he's never done any of these things?

[MikeinAR]

When his religion is in direct opposition to God and human safety, yes.

How do YOU know he's never done any of these things.

What religion in "direct opposition to God" are you referring to? Are you not willing to take the man's word that he has faith in Jesus Christ?

The reason I'm fairly certain he never has is I've never read a single shred of evidence that Obama has claimed Muslim faith. You're asking all of us to assume that he's somehow lived this secret Muslim lifestyle somehow escaping the prying eyes of all sorts of hostile organizations and media outlets.

You're putting forth pure conjecture as probable truth and it's rumormongering at best and slander at worst.

[rgcraig]

Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background

Sen. Barack Obama approached the media after a meeting with President Bush at the White House on Jan. 5. (AFP/File/Mannie Garcia)

Are the American people ready for an elected president who was educated in a Madrassa as a young boy and has not been forthcoming about his Muslim heritage?

This is the question Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s camp is asking about Sen. Barack Obama.

An investigation of Mr. Obama by political opponents within the Democratic Party has discovered that Mr. Obama was raised as a Muslim by his stepfather in Indonesia. Sources close to the background check, which has not yet been released, said Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called Madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia.

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm

[MikeinAR]

Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background

Sen. Barack Obama approached the media after a meeting with President Bush at the White House on Jan. 5. (AFP/File/Mannie Garcia)

Are the American people ready for an elected president who was educated in a Madrassa as a young boy and has not been forthcoming about his Muslim heritage?

This is the question Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s camp is asking about Sen. Barack Obama.

An investigation of Mr. Obama by political opponents within the Democratic Party has discovered that Mr. Obama was raised as a Muslim by his stepfather in Indonesia. Sources close to the background check, which has not yet been released, said Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called Madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia.

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm

My understanding is that during the 4 or 5 years he lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather he attended both Catholic schools and a Muslim school. Muslim in the sense that a large population of Indonesia is Muslim and that the school children we're predominantly Muslim. In both the Catholic and Muslim schools he attended, they received a few hours of each week of religious teachings. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

He has shown no signs of either being Catholic or Muslim in his religious views.

[Michael Phelps]

My understanding is that during the 4 or 5 years he lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather he attended both Catholic schools and a Muslim school. Muslim in the sense that a large population of Indonesia is Muslim and that the school children we're predominantly Muslim. In both the Catholic and Muslim schools he attended, they received a few hours of each week of religious teachings. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

He has shown no signs of either being Catholic or Muslim in his religious views.

So who changed his name to a Muslim name, and why?

[SOUNWORTHY]

So who changed his name to a Muslim name, and why?

I wouldn't do it unless I was a ....................:evilglee

[MikeinAR]

So who changed his name to a Muslim name, and why?

The only reason his name is Barack Hussein Obama is because he was named as a Jr. after his father.

[Michael Phelps]

The only reason his name is Barack Hussein Obama is because he was named as a Jr. after his father.

Gotcha.

[Jekyll]

My understanding is that during the 4 or 5 years he lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather he attended both Catholic schools and a Muslim school. Muslim in the sense that a large population of Indonesia is Muslim and that the school children we're predominantly Muslim. In both the Catholic and Muslim schools he attended, they received a few hours of each week of religious teachings. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

He has shown no signs of either being Catholic or Muslim in his religious views.
I thought previously you said there was no evidence tying him to Islam?

You, sir are an oSCAMa apologist and project opinion as fact.

[TRFrance]

Arab ?

When did Obama become Arab?
Are you serious with this?
Common sense... does Barak Hussein Obama sound more like 1. Cassius Clay; or, 2. Muhammad Ali?? (No, this is not what I base my deductions on, just an interesting point)

His father is a Kenyan Muslim. Does anyone here know anything about militant Muslims? Do you think for one instance that they will betray their true alliances before their "time" has come? Absolutely not.

His departure from radical Christianity was well orchestrated and planned. His disdain and public display of anti-patriotism is sympathetic to the very terrorists who wish to destroy America.

Can I prove line and letter that he is Muslim? Probably not.
Can you prove he isn't. Absolutely not.

I'm not willing to put my country on the line on such a foolish bet. Everything in his life is a lie, including the nonsense he blabbers about at everyone of his campaign stops. The press dresses him up and puffs him up very well. That alone is an obvious indication. I've personally seen his plane, not one stitch of a symbol of America displayed.

He sure wants to change America all right. Not towards God, not towards ethical behavior and certainly not towards its roots.

Call me a liar and call my posts lies all you want (Not you specifically, TR). Doesn't make you right and me wrong. This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on, it's painfully obvious and I'm sad for the "Christians" who have any sympathies for this hack.

Bro, I'm no Obama fan, but I think truth and accuracy are still important.

Just because he has an Arabic name does not make one Arabic.

Yes, his father was a Kenyan black Muslim.

Many black African Muslims have Arabic names. (Many black Africans took on Arabic names when Islam first spread down to Africa from it's birthplace in Arabia) That doesn't make them Arab.

-----------

Beyond that, I'm not really certain you're making a distinction between "Muslim" and 'Arab". Are you trying to make the point that he is an Arab (race), or a Muslim (religion)?

Some people use the terms interchangeably, but clearly there's a big difference.

[MikeinAR]

I thought previously you said there was no evidence tying him to Islam?

You, sir are an oSCAMa apologist and project opinion as fact.

TR doesn't agree with BO's politics and states his case very well against all things Obama. I respect that. As TR and any other fair minded person will admit, BO has never had ties to Muslim faith. He like many other people from that region of the world has a Muslim birth name, but that has nothing to do with your assertion that he is, or has been, a practicing Muslim.

There is absolutely no fact tying him to faith in Islam. You projected that unfounded opinion, and I stated the clear facts to the contrary.

Because of your dislike of the man, you've slandered and mischaracterized him as having faith in Islam or being a "Muslim". You, sir, are letting your dislike of the man cause you to bear false witness against him, all the while calling HIS faith into question. What's wrong with that picture?

[Jekyll]

Bro, I'm no Obama fan, but I think truth and accuracy are still important.

Just because he has an Arabic name does not make one Arabic.

Yes, his father was a Kenyan black Muslim.

Many black African Muslims have Arabic names. (Many black Africans took on Arabic names when Islam first spread down to Africa from it's birthplace in Arabia) That doesn't make them Arab.

-----------

Beyond that, I'm not really certain you're making a distinction between "Muslim" and 'Arab". Are you trying to make the point that he is an Arab (race), or a Muslim (religion)?

Some people use the terms interchangeably, but clearly there's a big difference.

No, I am not interchanging Muslim and Arabic.

I do appreciate your sensible dialogue.

But, take for instance the forum. Just because someone labels themselves Apostolic doesn't necessarily mean that they are (I am not judging anyone for this example). But, they wish to categorize themselves as an Apostolic.

The man is intertwined with Islam throughout his young adult life. Also, one doesn't just walk away from Christianity at the inception of a political race just because it is convenient, that type of move is too insincere no matter how he paints the picture.

All of his moves are CAREFULLY calculated. I don't believe the garbage he speakes about politics and I MOST certainly do not believe whatever he has to say about God or muhammad.

He would be committing political suicide if he allowed any of these sympathies to substantiated. Do you think for a nanosecond that he would be forthcoming about this philosophy? The fact that his campaign voice, the national, regional and local media do not even come close to the question, NOT EVEN DENYING his muslim ties, also is very telling.

[Jekyll]

TR doesn't agree with BO's politics and states his case very well against all things Obama. I respect that. As TR and any other fair minded person will admit, BO has never had ties to Muslim faith. He like many other people from that region of the world has a Muslim birth name, but that has nothing to do with your assertion that he is, or has been, a practicing Muslim.

There is absolutely no fact tying him to faith in Islam. You projected that unfounded opinion, and I stated the clear facts to the contrary.

Because of your dislike of the man, you've slandered and mischaracterized him as having faith in Islam or being a "Muslim". You, sir, are letting your dislike of the man cause you to bear false witness against him, all the while calling HIS faith into question. What's wrong with that picture?

Everything he says is vague or insincere, why should I believe anything about his christianity? He has shown me nothing about being devoted to the one true GOD.

[Jermyn Davidson]

The man is intertwined with Islam throughout his young adult life.


Please clarify and then back up your assertion.

[Pressing-On]

I just find it very interesting that Lynn de Rothschild pulls her support from the Democratic party and gives it to McCain.

This is what I heard her tell Sean Hannity this afternoon. Words to effect, "I'm not going to get into it about Obama. I just think that the questions need to be asked about his past and present associations until we get some answers."

That was very important to her!

He sought out relationships with the Saul Alinksy organization (same Alinksy that Hillary wrote her Dissertation paper on), the Ayers-Dohrn radicals, the scandal-ridden Tony Rezko, Reverend Wright and black-liberation theology, and Farrakhan and the Black Muslims.

The thing is, Obama sought these people out to climb the political ladder. Now he is trying to distance himself - too late.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I just find it very interesting that Lynn de Rothschild pulls her support from the Democratic party and gives it to McCain.

This is what I heard her tell Sean Hannity this afternoon. Words to effect, "I'm not going to get into it about Obama. I just think that the questions need to be asked about his past and present associations until we get some answers."

That was very important to her!

He sought out relationships with the Saul Alinksy organization (same Alinksy that Hillary wrote her Dissertation paper on), the Ayers-Dohrn radicals, the scandal-ridden Tony Rezko, Reverend Wright and black-liberation theology, and Farrakhan and the Black Muslims.

The thing is, Obama sought these people out to climb the political ladder. Now he is trying to distance himself - too late.


How was/is Sen. Obama "connected" to f-khan and which Black Muslims are Sen. Obama connected to?

[Jekyll]

Next question is, "Where is Jimmy Hoffa buried," right?

I'm sure the 9/11 terrorists completely documented their plans with the flight instructors. In fact, I read somewhere that they filed a flight plan with the FAA, didn't you know?

[Pressing-On]

How was/is Sen. Obama "connected" to f-khan and which Black Muslims are Sen. Obama connected to?

In 1995 Obama was interviewed by Chicago Reader and acknowedged that he took some time off that year from his first political campaign (Illinois state senate race) to participate in Louis Farrakhan's Black Muslim Million Man March in Washington D.C.

This was a fact that he omitted from his 2008 presidential campaign biography.

Ten days before the scheduled march, October 4, 1995, Reuters interviewed Farrakhan. Here are some remarks by Farrakhan:

"Many of the Jews who owned the homes, the apartments in the black community, we considered them bloodsuckers because they took from our community and built their community but didn't offer anything back to our community."

The previous year he gave a speech at the same event and said, "The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hiltler was a very great man."

Charles Bierbauer, "Million Man March: It's goal more widely accepted than its leader," CNN, October 17, 1995, at
http://www.cnn.com/US/9510/megamarch...ook/index.html

His associations are such a grave concern. I'm with Rothschild on this - ask, keep asking until you get the answers!!

[Pressing-On]

Let's read more of his "Alinsky" type speech.

"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face," he said.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/17/politics/p185733D40.DTL&type=politics

[Jermyn Davidson]

In 1995 Obama was interviewed by Chicago Reader and acknowedged that he took some time off that year from his first political campaign (Illinois state senate race) to participate in Louis Farrakhan's Black Muslim Million Man March in Washington D.C.

This was a fact that he omitted from his 2008 presidential campaign biography.

Ten days before the scheduled march, October 4, 1995, Reuters interviewed Farrakhan. Here are some remarks by Farrakhan:

"Many of the Jews who owned the homes, the apartments in the black community, we considered them bloodsuckers because they took from our community and built their community but didn't offer anything back to our community."

The previous year he gave a speech at the same event and said, "The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hiltler was a very great man."

Charles Bierbauer, "Million Man March: It's goal more widely accepted than its leader," CNN, October 17, 1995, at
http://www.cnn.com/US/9510/megamarch...ook/index.html

His associations are such a grave concern. I'm with Rothschild on this - ask, keep asking until you get the answers!!


I remember that march.

Do you realize how many men showed up for that march?

Some say over a million, some say only several HUNDRED THOUSAND!

It was not a small deal on any level.

If he participated in it, it was not a bad thing. Most of the guys who participated in that march did so as a show of solidarity, unity-- not necessarily because they agreed with f-khan, not because they were Muslim, definitely not because they were hateful.

The tenor of that event was unity and responsibility. I remember it.

[Jekyll]

I remember that march.

Do you realize how many men showed up for that march?

Some say over a million, some say only several HUNDRED THOUSAND!

It was not a small deal on any level.

If he participated in it, it was not a bad thing. Most of the guys who participated in that march did so as a show of solidarity, unity-- not necessarily because they agreed with f-khan, not because they were Muslim, definitely not because they were hateful.

The tenor of that event was unity and responsibility. I remember it.

Wolves-in-blind-sheep's-clothing leading the blind...*shaking his head sadly*