Arizona Boy, 8, Accused of Killing 2

[Cindy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081108/ap_on_re_us/child_charged

[Tina]

My first question would be why would an 8 year old have access to a gun and ammunition. My second question would be was the child abused and seeking a way out, and saw that as the only solution.

Sad situation.

[Jermyn Davidson]

should this child be charged with premeditated murder?

if yes, then what's stop the state from charging him as an adult?

should he be charged as an adult?

[Encryptus]

should this child be charged with premeditated murder?

if yes, then what's stop the state from charging him as an adult?

should he be charged as an adult?

There are laws pertaining to how young one can be certified as an adult, premeditation has nothing to do with it.

The only exception I am aware of is perjury which CAN be tried in adult court regardless of age.

[King's Child]

My question is "Why did he do it?' I have an 8 year old grandson. His grandfather has taken him hunting and he can use a shotgun. So I can understand how the boy may have had access to a gun and be able to shoot it but why would he? I think that there is more to this than a boy picking up a gun and shooting. If it was premeditated then there was a reason.

[Tina]

My question is "Why did he do it?' I have an 8 year old grandson. His grandfather has taken him hunting and he can use a shotgun. So I can understand how the boy may have had access to a gun and be able to shoot it but why would he? I think that there is more to this than a boy picking up a gun and shooting. If it was premeditated then there was a reason.

Many kids have been taken hunting and can use a gun. My son will be taught to hunt if he wants to learn. At this stage in his life, he's an animal lover and I don't see him wanting to hunt to kill an animal anytime soon.

Guns in our house are in a locked gun rack and the ammunition is locked up in a different location. My children do not know where the keys are. It's just a safety thing. I would like to think that most households are the same.

This story leaves many questions in my mind. Many of which we would probably never know the answers.

[tstew]

My question is "Why did he do it?' I have an 8 year old grandson. His grandfather has taken him hunting and he can use a shotgun. So I can understand how the boy may have had access to a gun and be able to shoot it but why would he? I think that there is more to this than a boy picking up a gun and shooting. If it was premeditated then there was a reason.

I think that the "whys" may be different for children of that age than for the average adult. Children at that age usually do not have a complete grasp on the severity of their actions and the finality of shooting a gun for real as opposed to at a video screen. Premeditation and reasoning are relative terms particularly at his age...which is precisely why I don't think there's any chance he will be tried as an adult regardless of the particulars.

[jaxfam6]

I am having real difficulty grasping this story. When I read it this morning on AZ Central they had no information. Now I read this and they still have no information for us. I would love to understand why the boy shot his father and another man.
I was 8 once, I am raising 4 boys, all of them over the age of 8. I can not imagine why an 8 year old would kill two adult males. Especially when one is his father.

[TalkLady]

I am having real difficulty grasping this story. When I read it this morning on AZ Central they had no information. Now I read this and they still have no information for us. I would love to understand why the boy shot his father and another man.
I was 8 once, I am raising 4 boys, all of them over the age of 8. I can not imagine why an 8 year old would kill two adult males. Especially when one is his father.



Violent images on television, as well as in the movies, have inspired people to set spouses on fire in their beds, lie down in the middle of highways, extort money by placing bombs in airplanes, rape, steal, murder, and commit numerous other shootings and assaults. Over 1,000 case studies have proven that media violence can have negative affects on children as well.

It increases aggressiveness and anti-social behavior, makes them less sensitive to violence and to victims of violence, and it increases their appetite for more violence in entertainment and in real life. Media violence is especially damaging to young children, age 8 and under because they cannot tell the difference between real life and fantasy. Violent images on television and in movies may seem real to these children and sometimes viewing these images can even traumatize them.


Despite the negative effects media violence has been known to generate, no drastic changes have been made to deal with this problem that seems to be getting worse. We, as a whole, have glorified this violence so much that movies such as “Natural Born Killers” and television shows such as “Mighty Morphin Power Rangers” are viewed as normal, everyday entertainment. It’s even rare now to find a children’s cartoon that does not depict some type of violence or comedic aggression. What we do not realize though, is that it is the children that are ending up with problems. Unlike most rational, educated adults, many children are gradually beginning to accept violence as a way to solve problems and are imitating what they observe on television. These
children do not understand that the violence is shown strictly because the public wants to see it. They cannot grasp the meaning of “ratings” and “entertainment” as well as adults can. All they know is, “if the TV portrays violence as cool, then it must be cool!”

The above is from this link:
http://www.echeat.com/essay.php?t=25592

.........How sad that this is what is filling up much of the time of our precious children.

[jaxfam6]

I understand what is being said in that article. I still do not think that is what would cause and 8 year old to kill his father. Maybe it helped him to feel it was his only escape but I still think there is a deeper cause. One that is more personal and intimate than any of us will probably ever know.

[HeavenlyOne]

When I was 8, I was a messed up child. I had a horrible babysitter who lived with us and abused us horribly. At one time, I planned on killing her by stabbing her with knives my mom had in a special knife drawer. I also had my brother and two cousins who lived with us in on it. We went through the scenario on several occasions.

A short time later, she left and never came back. I have no doubt that I would have killed her had she stayed with us much longer.

Oh, and I didn't have a TV influencing me. I was tired of the abuse I suffered from her. Horrible things.

[jaxfam6]

H1 that is a terrible thing to deal with. I am glad you never had to find out if you would go through with it or not. I imagine that this poor boy was dealing with something similar.

[TalkLady]

When I was 8, I was a messed up child. I had a horrible babysitter who lived with us and abused us horribly. At one time, I planned on killing her by stabbing her with knives my mom had in a special knife drawer. I also had my brother and two cousins who lived with us in on it. We went through the scenario on several occasions.

A short time later, she left and never came back. I have no doubt that I would have killed her had she stayed with us much longer.

Oh, and I didn't have a TV influencing me. I was tired of the abuse I suffered from her. Horrible things.

I'm sorry to hear that, H1. I'm glad the abuser left.

[Cindy]

I am horrified at what children are exposed to daily and the solution they sometimes find to deal with it. I pray there is another explanation, maybe they are not saying much because it's a minor. And I wonder where the mother is.

[MissBrattified]

What a sad story. I noticed it didn't mention the boy's mother or extended family....hmm. This story is lacking a lot of important details. I'll be interested to see what else comes out.

H1, Jeff told me that he and his brother used to conspire about ways to kill their Dad when they were young boys. It's a wonder they didn't become the Menendez brothers. They didn't have tv or video games, either. I know the first thing I thought of when I read the article was, "What were those men doing to that boy?" It may be something altogether different, but that's the first leap my mind makes.

[Kae]

I am horrified at what children are exposed to daily and the solution they sometimes find to deal with it. I pray there is another explanation, maybe they are not saying much because it's a minor. And I wonder where the mother is.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iG_nB7rdOr3TiaL5ph3YDR5qNNTAD94AQRNG0

At the end of this article it tells that the father has custody and the mother lives in Mississippi. She returned to Arizona after the shootings though.

[Cindy]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iG_nB7rdOr3TiaL5ph3YDR5qNNTAD94AQRNG0

At the end of this article it tells that the father has custody and the mother lives in Mississippi. She returned to Arizona after the shootings though.

So the mother who does not have custody, had visited over the weekend. Then the dad and his boarder were killed by the child. Hmmmm, maybe the mom had something to do with it, or something happened between the mom and dad, and possibly the other guy. Who knows, but I think there is a lot more to the story.

P. S. And I imagine the "confession" might not stand up in court, as he had no counsel. I do wonder if they video taped it though, even in a small town they should have the means to do so.

[George]

Heavenly One and Miss Brattified have established the fact young children can premeditate such a crime but they have also established the fact the children felt it was their only way out of a terrible situation. I believe this story has much more to it than we know. Hopefully, if the child was suffering abuse, he will be released to his mother without repercussions. This child is going to need a lot of help and support.

[tstew]

Heavenly One and Miss Brattified have established the fact young children can premeditate such a crime but they have also established the fact the children felt it was their only way out of a terrible situation. I believe this story has much more to it than we know. Hopefully, if the child was suffering abuse, he will be released to his mother without repercussions. This child is going to need a lot of help and support.

Yes, I agree that a child that age can certainly premeditate, however, I'm not sure that someone of that age has a full understanding and appreciation of the severity and finality of their actions. It seem to be a very sad story, and no matter what, that child is going to need a lot of prayer, support, and counseling.

[HeavenlyOne]

H1 that is a terrible thing to deal with. I am glad you never had to find out if you would go through with it or not. I imagine that this poor boy was dealing with something similar.

I vividly remember how I felt during that time in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that we would have carried it out had she stayed.

[George]

I vividly remember how I felt during that time in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that we would have carried it out had she stayed.

There is nothing I hate more than people who abuse children. I'm glad you were delivered from that beast and am sorry you have had to live with the memories. Considering all things, I think you turned out alright. :) :friend

[HeavenlyOne]

I am horrified at what children are exposed to daily and the solution they sometimes find to deal with it. I pray there is another explanation, maybe they are not saying much because it's a minor. And I wonder where the mother is.

In my case, my mother had to work a lot of hours because my dad left us and wasn't paying support. In addition, my mom was of the opinion that children always lied and adults always told the truth. She let this be known, and would tell our various babysitters to 'beat them as if they were your own if they don't behave'. And they did.

Of course, since we always lied and adults always told the truth, there was NO WAY we could tell our mom what was going on, and the sitters knew it. Why people thought it was ok to beat on us is beyond me, but it was what I suffered all my childhood life. My mom made sure she had her turns as well, especially when she found out that the sitters beat us....we got it again just for that reason.

While I never sought to harm my mother, I prayed to God nightly that He would cause her to be in a car accident and die...and never come home.

Scary thoughts here, but it's what I lived from the time I was 7 until I was 13. And those feelings I felt then I feel right now as if I'm living it over just in writing this. And if I didn't live this life myself, I don't think I'd believe someone else telling this story.

Oh, but for the grace and mercy of God...

[George]

In my case, my mother had to work a lot of hours because my dad left us and wasn't paying support. In addition, my mom was of the opinion that children always lied and adults always told the truth. She let this be known, and would tell our various babysitters to 'beat them as if they were your own if they don't behave'. And they did.

Of course, since we always lied and adults always told the truth, there was NO WAY we could tell our mom what was going on, and the sitters knew it. Why people thought it was ok to beat on us is beyond me, but it was what I suffered all my childhood life. My mom made sure she had her turns as well, especially when she found out that the sitters beat us....we got it again just for that reason.

While I never sought to harm my mother, I prayed to God nightly that He would cause her to be in a car accident and die...and never come home.

Scary thoughts here, but it's what I lived from the time I was 7 until I was 13. And those feelings I felt then I feel right now as if I'm living it over just in writing this. And if I didn't live this life myself, I don't think I'd believe someone else telling this story.

Oh, but for the grace and mercy of God...

Can I give you a cyber hug? Sorry for all you went through.

[HeavenlyOne]

What a sad story. I noticed it didn't mention the boy's mother or extended family....hmm. This story is lacking a lot of important details. I'll be interested to see what else comes out.

H1, Jeff told me that he and his brother used to conspire about ways to kill their Dad when they were young boys. It's a wonder they didn't become the Menendez brothers. They didn't have tv or video games, either. I know the first thing I thought of when I read the article was, "What were those men doing to that boy?" It may be something altogether different, but that's the first leap my mind makes.

Interesting. I also never trusted adults, because I felt that they believed as my mom did..that I was a liar. All it would take is another adult to contradict what I said and I'd get beat some more.

My mom was so liberal with other people slapping me around, and she didn't care what or how they did it, even in her presence. When I was about 9, I was sitting with a lady in church who slapped me in the face (I cannot remember why, but I'm sure I did something awful to deserve it). The pastor was so shocked that he called my mom into the office after service and told her to not let others hit me (my mom told me this years later).

It didn't work. He himself 'paddled' me when I was 15, so I'm not sure what his point was in saying that.

[HeavenlyOne]

Heavenly One and Miss Brattified have established the fact young children can premeditate such a crime but they have also established the fact the children felt it was their only way out of a terrible situation. I believe this story has much more to it than we know. Hopefully, if the child was suffering abuse, he will be released to his mother without repercussions. This child is going to need a lot of help and support.

I wish people had seen that I was a troubled child instead of a troublemaker. I carry a lot of baggage today because of my childhood.

[HeavenlyOne]

Yes, I agree that a child that age can certainly premeditate, however, I'm not sure that someone of that age has a full understanding and appreciation of the severity and finality of their actions. It seem to be a very sad story, and no matter what, that child is going to need a lot of prayer, support, and counseling.

I don't believe that either. In my situation, I just wanted what was happening to me to stop. Planning and praying for things to happen was the answer to my problems.

[HeavenlyOne]

There is nothing I hate more than people who abuse children. I'm glad you were delivered from that beast and am sorry you have had to live with the memories. Considering all things, I think you turned out alright. :) :friend

Sometimes I wonder how I turned out alright!

I am overprotective of my children to a fault. I will not allow anyone to lay a hand on them, and that included my own mother. If any punishing needed to be done, it would be done by me.

My mom used to tell me that I was creating monsters because I didn't beat my kids for everything they did. She has since told me what a wonderful job I have done in raising them, in spite of my lack of beating them...LOL!

Can I give you a cyber hug? Sorry for all you went through.

Thanks. I love hugs, even the cyber kind.

[George]

Yes, I agree that a child that age can certainly premeditate, however, I'm not sure that someone of that age has a full understanding and appreciation of the severity and finality of their actions. It seem to be a very sad story, and no matter what, that child is going to need a lot of prayer, support, and counseling.

Agreed.

STEW, I believe they can premeditate but in no way understand the severity of their actions. This type of child just wants free from the abuse they suffer and seek a way to find deliverance. They are so abused they don't realize they could talk to a teacher at school, a policeman, or principal and get help. That is why their little minds think in the extreme. My heart breaks for children who suffer such.

[HeavenlyOne]

Agreed.

STEW, I believe they can premeditate but in no way understand the severity of their actions. This type of child just wants free from the abuse they suffer and seek a way to find deliverance. They are so abused they don't realize they could talk to a teacher at school, a policeman, or principal and get help. That is why their little minds think in the extreme. My heart breaks for children who suffer such.

In my situation, I couldn't talk to any adult...teacher, principal, nobody. See, I was a child who took out my frustrations on others, thus yielding me the title of troubled child. People saw me as a troublemaker, so I was only punished more. My hurts led to hatred and by the time I was 13, I hated everyone. I made sure nobody dared make the mistake of being friendly to me, and I wasn't afraid to stand up to other adults.

By the time I was 16, I was standing up to my mom and making sure that I did everything she didn't want me to do. I got bolder at the age of 17 and did even more.

But God saw through all that, and He helped break that spirit I had and has made me the person I am today. Again, it's only by His grace and mercy that I'm not in prison or dead.

My babysitter wasn't the only person I ever planned on killing. I almost carried out a 'murder plot' when I was 19 on another woman and her innocent elderly parents. I was only a gas can away from pulling that off.

I'm not sure why I'm sharing this, but with all I've been through, I'm so careful not to label children as just being bad, unruly children. There is a reason they are acting that way.

[Sherri]

HO, I never would have guessed this kind of stuff about you. God has sure brought you a long way. HE IS FAITHFUL!

[Cindy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081109/ap_on_re_us/child_charged

More to the story.

[HeavenlyOne]

HO, I never would have guessed this kind of stuff about you. God has sure brought you a long way. HE IS FAITHFUL!

Thanks, Sherri, for saying that. Funny thing is, I never asked God to take those feelings away from me. He just did it.

[jaxfam6]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081109/ap_on_re_us/child_charged

More to the story.

here are some things in the story I do not understand

"The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. Police are looking into whether he might have been abused.

"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this.""

"In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.

"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said."

"Melnick said police got a confession, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights."

They are looking into possible abuse but yet they want him tried as an adult?????

And why would the courts even allow this to continue if they believe his rights have been violated?

[Cindy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081109/ap_on_re_us/child_charged

[jaxfam6]

What is really sad is that if there is abuse no one will want to believe it because he was so well liked. It is always the ones no one would suspect it of that do it.
I am praying for this child. Not just him but the entire community there. The judges, lawyers, police, all that will be involved in a trial.

[Cindy]

I have an 8 year old grandson. I cannot imagine that he would be capable of anything like this. Even if he had access to, or knew how to use a weapon.

[jaxfam6]

I have an 8 year old grandson. I cannot imagine that he would be capable of anything like this. Even if he had access to, or knew how to use a weapon.

I know what you mean. That is why I strongly believe there has to be something EXTREME behind this all. An 8 year old just does not kill anyone let alone his father. Even if something is going on to bring him to the point he felt that killing them was his only choice MOST 8 year olds are NOT going to do it. SOMETHING has to be seriously wrong.

[Cindy]

I know what you mean. That is why I strongly believe there has to be something EXTREME behind this all. An 8 year old just does not kill anyone let alone his father. Even if something is going on to bring him to the point he felt that killing them was his only choice MOST 8 year olds are NOT going to do it. SOMETHING has to be seriously wrong.

Yes, and I think that child needs counsel as well.