Apostolic Standards

[Cindysgreen]

:foottap My daughter is in Public school and I would like to know where I could find something like an Apostolic Bylaws to show the school that she has rights to wear her skirt during PE and she has a right to wear a skirt and still tryout for sports. We as Apostolics know our starndards but the world doesnt understand. HELP PLS! :heart

[SeekingOne]

Why does she need an Aposotlic document? I would think the US constitution or something might be of more use! So she wears the regulation PE wear with a skirt over it, what's it to them?

Maybe time to find a new school or school her at home?

Seriously, I hope that you can go to the school in all humility, so they don't feel threatened, and explain why it is important that your daughter wear a skirt over the uniform. If they feel like you are understanding of their restrictions, they may allow your restrictions along side theirs.

If you don't go with a "it's us against you" instead of a "we're with you, we have standards too" then it might go over a tad better for you.

[*AQuietPlace*]

There are no such Apostolic bylaws as far as I know.... unless you want to use the UPC manual. But a letter from your pastor to the school should do the trick.

[MissBrattified]

:foottap My daughter is in Public school and I would like to know where I could find something like an Apostolic Bylaws to show the school that she has rights to wear her skirt during PE and she has a right to wear a skirt and still tryout for sports. We as Apostolics know our starndards but the world doesnt understand. HELP PLS! :heart

You don't need any piece of paper, if that's what you believe. You can simply write a letter to the principal, and/or the school superintendent stating that your daughters needs a religious exception, since you don't wear pants. That is, they can't force her to dress out for PE. They can prevent her from participating in some activities, if safety is an issue in their estimation.

I hope that along with being feminine and wearing a skirt, you are also concerned with modesty, and making sure that during the playing of sports, there's no immodesty. Modesty is just as important, if not more important than, femininity. It isn't modest to fall during play and have a skirt fly up.

Safety is a factor as well, and the school may reasonably elect that your daughter cannot participate in some sports in a skirt for safety reasons. I don't disagree with them, if that is their consensus. There are some things that cannot be modestly or safely done in a skirt, and if you are going to live that conviction, it should be understood that it does limit a woman's activities.

Are you completely opposed to culottes or gauchos as well? They can be made with flaps in the front or back to look like a skirt.

http://www.myculottes.com/skirlots.html

[*AQuietPlace*]

Are you completely opposed to culottes or gauchos as well? They can be made with flaps in the front or back to look like a skirt.

http://www.myculottes.com/skirlots.html

Or she could just wear shorts under her skirt. Biking shorts work great and provide modesty.

[meBNme]

There was a limited production of Thompson chain reference Bibles produced for the UPC that had just what you are looking for in them, its also found on the UPCI website.

I did a copy/paste of the following from the UPCI.org site.

PUBLIC SCHOOL ACTIVITIES

We disapprove of school students attending shows, dances, dancing classes, theaters, engaging in school activities against their religious scruples, and wearing gymnasium clothes which immodestly expose the body.

We disapprove of school students being forced to take coeducational classes which involve boys and girls being mixed together in swimming, calesthenics, baseball, and other mixed athletics while clothed in ungodly attire which immodestly exposes the body.

We disapprove of school students being forced to take any classes in which, under the guise of health classes, sex education is taught coeducationally or films or lectures are given that promote amoral or unnatural behavior.

We disapprove of school students being forced to be taught by or listen to those who promote or advocate sexual activity of any kind other than that within the bonds of the marriage relationship of husband and wife.

RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS

The annual conference is declared to be an international religious holiday for all members, and all members are urged to attend. Furthermore, since the founding of the church occurred on the Day of Pentecost, Pentecost Sunday is also a recognized religious holiday.

Public schools are required under freedom of religion to allow children to follow the guidelines that are stated by an official, recognized religious organization in writing.

This should be all you need. Just present it to the Gym teacher, principle etc.

[MissBrattified]

Or she could just wear shorts under her skirt. Biking shorts work great and provide modesty.

My girls usually wear skorts or gauchos. Shorts or leggings under a loose skirt work, too.

[meBNme]

My girls usually wear skorts or gauchos. Shorts or leggings under a loose skirt work, too.

Not if that violates ones personal convictions.
If it does, we should not compromise just to fit in.

If it does not, then it may well be a non issue.

another argument, another time.

[MissBrattified]

Not if that violates ones personal convictions.
If it does, we should not compromise just to fit in.

Of course not. I would never suggest otherwise. :)

If it does not, then it may well be a non issue.

another argument, another time.

No need for another time...what we do in our home is our business, and others likewise. I'm not interested in talking anyone out of their convictions.

[meBNme]

Of course not. I would never suggest otherwise. :)



No need for another time...what we do in our home is our business, and others likewise. I'm not interested in talking anyone out of their convictions.


For some reason I didnt see the "My" in your post. All I saw was ......

"girls usually wear skorts or gauchos. Shorts or leggings under a loose skirt work, too."

As if you were suggesting the OP allow the same even if she had not previosly.

I'm sorry, I misread and didnt realize you were just stating your personal stance.

Thus the reason for pointing out that may not be good for all.

[MissBrattified]

For some reason I didnt see the "My" in your post. All I saw was ......

"girls usually wear skorts or gauchos. Shorts or leggings under a loose skirt work, too."

As if you were suggesting the OP allow the same even if she had not previosly.

I'm sorry, I misread and didnt realize you were just stating your personal stance.

Thus the reason for pointing out that may not be good for all.

NP! :)

[commonsense]

When youngest daughter took gym class I sewed a culotte for her out of sweatshirt fabric so she could participate.

It was lavender. :hug3

[Kutless]

When youngest daughter took gym class I sewed a culotte for her out of sweatshirt fabric so she could participate.

It was lavender. :hug3LAVENDAR!!!! How ungodly! :hanky

[pelathais]

Not if that violates ones personal convictions.
If it does, we should not compromise just to fit in.

If it does not, then it may well be a non issue.

another argument, another time.
Having kids who were faster and taller than me presented a problem in gym classes when I was young. Also, some of the kids had skills that clearly showed that had been coached and trained in the various sports we played. I thought that this was unfair.

There was one kid who used to wear cowboy boots with his gym shorts and all. I don't think it was a "personal conviction" - just a lack of tennis shoes. One year I got a brand new pair of Adidas. This was the first time that I didn't have to follow my mother's "personal conviction" - which was otherwise known as "cheap." I remember wearing the Adidas with a suit once and think it was "okay." But that violated some people's "personal convictions" at church. I never understood that.

One gym coach I had drove a Cadillac and had an Italian name. All of us kids were certain that he was in the Mafia. We had no "personal convictions" one way or the other about that, we just thought it would be cool if he really was in the Mafia. Turns out he was just a college referee on the side.

[RevDWW]

Having kids who were faster and taller than me presented a problem in gym classes when I was young. Also, some of the kids had skills that clearly showed that had been coached and trained in the various sports we played. I thought that this was unfair.

There was one kid who used to wear cowboy boots with his gym shorts and all. I don't think it was a "personal conviction" - just a lack of tennis shoes. One year I got a brand new pair of Adidas. This was the first time that I didn't have to follow my mother's "personal conviction" - which was otherwise known as "cheap." I remember wearing the Adidas with a suit once and think it was "okay." But that violated some people's "personal convictions" at church. I never understood that.

One gym coach I had drove a Cadillac and had an Italian name. All of us kids were certain that he was in the Mafia. We had no "personal convictions" one way or the other about that, we just thought it would be cool if he really was in the Mafia. Turns out he was just a college referee on the side.

My mother had that same conviction......:ursofunny..... but I think she called it thrift. All my friends had "track" shoes and I was bought a pair of converse high-tops...when they were cheap.....I desperately wanted a pair of dingo boots when I was in the 5th grade and she finally found me a 'man made materials" pair at pay less.......:ursofunny

Oh and when my buddies had cool faded Levi jeans, I had Sears Tough Skins that probably could have saved me from a bullet...much to my dismay they never faded nor wore out.......:ursofunny

[Godsdrummer]

Although this has gotten off the subject you all don't know what it is like style wise unless you are forced to wear hand me downs, that don't fit. Jeans that even a belt won't help keep up. Now that is what my mom called thrift

[lyionness]

Sister I went thru it when my daughter was in school. We have freedom of religion and WEARING A DRESS should not deter her from doing all she wants and still be a witness to her classmates. my daughter and i designed a kool lot with a flap on the front and the back and she played soft ball, soccer, and volleyball, and never compromised her standards for the school.

[crakjak]

There are plenty of longer, modest shorts. This allows participation in PE and sports activities that are great exercise and the team activity helps develope personal and social skills that all children need.

These benefits far outweigh the perceived "witness" to the other students, which it is not. We should join in things that are wholesome and developmental for our children. I believe the separation in this area does far more damage than benefit. I did say modest, didn't I.

[Jack Shephard]

My girls usually wear skorts or gauchos. Shorts or leggings under a loose skirt work, too.

Then your girls are sinners! :bliss


Kiddin'

[Jack Shephard]

:foottap My daughter is in Public school and I would like to know where I could find something like an Apostolic Bylaws to show the school that she has rights to wear her skirt during PE and she has a right to wear a skirt and still tryout for sports. We as Apostolics know our starndards but the world doesnt understand. HELP PLS! :heart

Question: is your concern for their souls? By that I mean are you doing this because you believe it is a heaven or hell issue or just simply a modesty issue? If it modesty then there could be an even ground such as they could wear gouchos or baggy shorts that you might feel that are more appropriate.

I know that as Apostolicostals we tend to think "be separate from the world" and not so much "be seperate to God so that others might see him through me." Just a thought but it might bring many more issues concerning your kids mental well-being than you might think. I am not a "standards" person, but I believe in separation to God. I believe girls and guys can be separate will not drawing uneeded attention to themselves or their beliefs. I went to an Apostolic School and our mens sport teams wore long windpants and tees under our jerseys. It worked for us, but other visiting schools didn't understand why we wore pants and why they had too when they played us. It is a bit goofy at times, but it worked.

We weren't singled out too much because it was all our athletes men and women that dressed accordingly. Had it been me at a large public school and been a small fish in the large ocean I would have dressed different. Because I never wanted people to see me and see a church, but look at me and see God. They would know who I was by knowing me, but just seeing how I conducted myself should be what would have set me apart.

If Twisp shows up here he can echo my thoughts about the school dress I am sure. We went to the same school.

[POWERUP]

There are plenty of longer, modest shorts. This allows participation in PE and sports activities that are great exercise and the team activity helps develope personal and social skills that all children need.

These benefits far outweigh the perceived "witness" to the other students, which it is not. We should join in things that are wholesome and developmental for our children. I believe the separation in this area does far more damage than benefit. I did say modest, didn't I.

Right on the Money!!!

[Melody]

http://womenshistory.about.com/library//bio/blbio_madge_syers.htm
this woman modestly and safely participated in the olympics

[MawMaw]

There are plenty of longer, modest shorts. This allows participation in PE and sports activities that are great exercise and the team activity helps develope personal and social skills that all children need.

These benefits far outweigh the perceived "witness" to the other students, which it is not. We should join in things that are wholesome and developmental for our children. I believe the separation in this area does far more damage than benefit. I did say modest, didn't I.

But that's just the thing. I am assuming this parent does not want her child wearing shorts. I also beg to differ with you on the not being a witness to other students....the way we dress is most definitely a type of witness.

[Sam]

But that's just the thing. I am assuming this parent does not want her child wearing shorts. I also beg to differ with you on the not being a witness to other students....the way we dress is most definitely a type of witness.

It can be a witness

but

on the other hand

the way it is presented some times

it can be a reproach depending on the person's attitude

[Michael Phelps]

But that's just the thing. I am assuming this parent does not want her child wearing shorts. I also beg to differ with you on the not being a witness to other students....the way we dress is most definitely a type of witness.

What does it witness, tho?

Do you personally know of anyone who ever came to an Apostolic church because of the way Apostolics dress?

I don't.

[Mirth1981]

What does it witness, tho?

Do you personally know of anyone who ever came to an Apostolic church because of the way Apostolics dress?

I don't.

I don't either. On the other hand, I've talked to many people that don't want to come to the UPC church I attend because they don't want to be judged for wearing their pants.

[MawMaw]

What does it witness, tho?

Do you personally know of anyone who ever came to an Apostolic church because of the way Apostolics dress?

I don't.

It witnesses that someone has convictions of dressing very modestly in a very immodest world.

I'm not sure anyone will go to church solely because of them viewing how someone dresses, but, who knows..... it can make them wonder about things and maybe start asking questions about why that person dresses or doesn't dress the way they do. That person could eventually go to church and be won to the Lord. :)

[Michael Phelps]

It witnesses that someone has convictions of dressing very modestly in a very immodest world.

I'm not sure anyone will go to church solely because of them viewing how someone dresses, but, who knows..... it can make them wonder about things and maybe start asking questions about why that person dresses or doesn't dress the way they do. That person could eventually go to church and be won to the Lord. :)

I see your point, and it's a valid one.

I keep going back to scripture, however, where Jesus said "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you have love one to another".

If a person is truly a Christian, it's what's on the inside that will bear witness, not the outside. Jesus never one time said that we would be witnesses by our outward appearance, but He did talk a lot about the way we act.

Immodesty is a completely different story, I would agree with that.

However, to say that our women are being "holy" because they don't wear pants just doesn't hold water, nor does it have any scriptural backing.

[MawMaw]

I see your point, and it's a valid one.

I keep going back to scripture, however, where Jesus said "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you have love one to another".

If a person is truly a Christian, it's what's on the inside that will bear witness, not the outside. Jesus never one time said that we would be witnesses by our outward appearance, but He did talk a lot about the way we act.

Immodesty is a completely different story, I would agree with that.

However, to say that our women are being "holy" because they don't wear pants just doesn't hold water, nor does it have any scriptural backing.

I don't believe that I said anything about skirts vs shorts/pants being "holy".........just an issue of modesty convictions for a whole lot of folks.

[Michael Phelps]

I don't believe that I said anything about skirts vs shorts/pants being "holy".........just an issue of modesty convictions for a whole lot of folks.

I understand that you personally did not say that, but it is a very widespread belief amongst many Aposolics. Many believe that if a woman wears pants, she will go to hell.

If dressing modestly converts people to our religion, then the entire world would be Amish!