Welcome Azzan Thread

[Dedicated Mind]

Azzan is a gay believer in God who has struggled with homosexuality. While not condoning the sin, can AFF welcome Azzan to the forum or will we shun a gay believer? Personally, I welcome him with all his faults. What say ye?

[sandie]

Jesus said to treat others the way you want to be treated. He didn't make any exceptions in that statement as far as I know.

[scotty]

Welcome Azzan, glad to have you here.

[Timmy]

Well, I sure wouldn't shun her. Shoot, I don't even shun Scotty! :heeheehee

(Just pickin' on ya cuz you posted last, Scottay. :toofunny)

Welcome Azzan. :friend

[notofworks]

Azzan is a gay believer in God who has struggled with homosexuality. While not condoning the sin, can AFF welcome Azzan to the forum or will we shun a gay believer? Personally, I welcome him with all his faults. What say ye?



Come on.....

Why can't you just say, "Welcome Azzan" rather than scarlet-lettering him with the, ""While not condoning the sin" malarkey?

You know what, Dedicated Mind, I don't condone YOUR sin, either!!!

[ThePastorsCoach]

Welcome Azzan and I hope you can take it! Some of these guys are pretty rough on straights that are not just like them so as I have preached for years...If you can take it....You can make it! I certainly look forward to your posts.

[Dedicated Mind]

Come on.....

Why can't you just say, "Welcome Azzan" rather than scarlet-lettering him with the, ""While not condoning the sin" malarkey?

You know what, Dedicated Mind, I don't condone YOUR sin, either!!!

I admit, I had admin and the cons who criticize AFF in mind when I made this post. My welcome is sincere, I hope Azzan can handle the unique circumstances. NOW, you're not perfect either. So why the grandstanding?

[missourimary]

I only shun (place on ignore) the people whose posts require it.

How do you know, DM, that there hasn't already been an Azzan or two on here?

(Psst, Timmy, "Azzan" is a him, not a her.)

[notofworks]

I admit, I had admin and the cons who criticize AFF in mind when I made this post. My welcome is sincere, I hope Azzan can handle the unique circumstances. NOW, you're not perfect either. So why the grandstanding?



Of course I'm not!! Nor are you, nor anyone else who posts. So why isolate the spotlight on Azzan?? The most sincere thing any of us could say is, "Welcome Azzan, we're so glad you're here! We love you for who you are and nothing you could do would make me love you more or less!!"

There's no "Grandstanding" here, just a voice in the wilderness crying out for a realization that we are all flawed!

[Praxeas]

I think the most inconspicuous thing to do is just treat him like any other poster and let him know he is welcome here like any other poster...

[OneAccord]

Welcome Azzan. Any friend of DM's is a friend of mine.

[notofworks]

I think the most inconspicuous thing to do is just treat him like any other poster and let him know he is welcome here like any other poster...


Holy smoke, someone shoot off some fireworks, Prax and I are buddies!!!

[Dedicated Mind]

I only shun (place on ignore) the people whose posts require it.

How do you know, DM, that there hasn't already been an Azzan or two on here?

(Psst, Timmy, "Azzan" is a him, not a her.)

I don't know Mary. Anyone feel like coming out of the closet?

[pelathais]

Welcome Azzan. Welcome everybody.

[Timmy]

I only shun (place on ignore) the people whose posts require it.

How do you know, DM, that there hasn't already been an Azzan or two on here?

(Psst, Timmy, "Azzan" is a him, not a her.)

Well, he found it highly amusing that everyone thinks he is man. But I guess that doesn't prove anything. ;)

[Dedicated Mind]

Azzan, can you confirm whether you are a man or a woman? I have never heard from a woman struggling with lesbianism.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Hi Azzan.

Welcome to the online Apostolic looney bin.

[missourimary]

Personally, I welcome him with all his faults. What say ye?

Well, he found it highly amusing that everyone thinks he is man. But I guess that doesn't prove anything. ;)

Azzan, can you confirm whether you are a man or a woman? I have never heard from a woman struggling with lesbianism.

DM, how can you attribute a lifestyle to someone if you can't even list their gender?

[Dedicated Mind]

DM, how can you attribute a lifestyle to someone if you can't even list their gender?

Azzan said he/she was gay. Men and women can be gay. What r u talking about? read his/her posts in dadt thread.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Azzan,

Whatever sin you are wrestling with, keep wrestling.

It gets better.


Your life will be much better on the other side of through. I am not talking about Heaven. I am talking about the place in your earthly life where the Grace and Power of God wins in your life.


Don't let go of God's Unchanging Hand.

His mercy endureth forever.

He is married to the backslider.

When He forgave you the first time, He forgot about it.

When He forgave you the tenth time, He forgot about.

If you feel Him tugging at you, it's because He is still tugging at you.

If you have the desire to still seek the Face of God, it is only because God gave you that desire to seek His Face.

He is the Author and Finisher of your faith so let Him finish your story, His Way.

Azzan, you are forgiven and loved.

[kayl]

Azzan, you are forgiven and loved.

Presumptuous. You are not aware if he is or is not a practicing homosexual.

[coadie]

Azzan, can you confirm whether you are a man or a woman? I have never heard from a woman struggling with lesbianism.

Have you heard of a man struggling with lesbianism?

[deadeye]

Presumptuous. You are not aware if he is or is not a practicing homosexual.

If he/she is not practicing...and has repented of the sin of homosexuality...God has forgiven that person and they are no longer a homosexual in Gods eyes.
The world may view them as such...some in the church may accuse, they may even view themselves as such at times....but a repented forgiven, Blood washed person is a New Creature in Christ....no matter what they may have been.

My contention is that when a person repents....they are no longer what they used to be.....in Gods eyes that is....and that is all that matters.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Presumptuous. You are not aware if he is or is not a practicing homosexual.

If he's "struggling" like I thought I read, then I am not being presumptuous.

Doesn't "struggling" mean that he/she knows its wrong, repents when he/she falls and tries to live the Christian life?

[kayl]

If he/she is not practicing...and has repented of the sin of homosexuality...God has forgiven that person and they are no longer a homosexual in Gods eyes.
The world may view them as such...some in the church may accuse, they may even view themselves as such at times....but a repented forgiven, Blood washed person is a New Creature in Christ....no matter what they may have been.

My contention is that when a person repents....they are no longer what they used to be.....in Gods eyes that is....and that is all that matters.

Does Azzan identify himself as a homosexual?

[kayl]

For what it is worth, Welcome Azzan.

[deadeye]

Does Azzan identify himself as a homosexual?

Yes

[Jeffrey]

Azzan is a gay believer in God who has struggled with homosexuality. While not condoning the sin, can AFF welcome Azzan to the forum or will we shun a gay believer? Personally, I welcome him with all his faults. What say ye?

I don't recall Azzan articulating that he is a believer. I've asked him directly, actually.

Either way, why wouldn't he be welcomed here?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Does Azzan identify himself as a homosexual?

No.

The first line says he struggled-- as in past tense.

So maybe he is already living on the other side of through!

:bliss

[kayl]

I don't recall Azzan articulating that he is a believer. I've asked him directly, actually.

Either way, why wouldn't he be welcomed here?

I thought I read that Azzan put religion behind him.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I don't recall Azzan articulating that he is a believer. I've asked him directly, actually.

Either way, why wouldn't he be welcomed here?

If he is not a believer in Jesus Christ, why would he be here-- to make sport of Christians?

I think he could find better things to do than that.

He is here because he is a Christian who has or used to have a sin problem.

[coadie]

I thought I read that Azzan put religion behind him.

Welcome to the discussion board. Since you haven't introduced yourself as bringing an issue, i want to be the first to give you the biggest royal welcome.

[Praxeas]

he said that anyone that is gay can have straight relations but eventually because the sex drive is so strong they will fall (and have a homosexual encounter I presume)...isn't the same true of heterosexuals having an affair?

The truth is they don't necessarily have to break down and given in.

[Hoovie]

Welcome everybody is right. We are all here under the same privileges, obligations and rules.

And since this thread has Azzan in the title, WELCOME! especially to Azzan.

[kayl]

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=975335&postcount=294

Yes, I was baptized and filled with the HG for many years. It did not help. Even when I was active in church and was used in the gifts of the spirit (tongues, interpretation of tongues and even prophecy), the attraction to my gender never, ever left me. It was always there.

I have been living alone for the past 6 years. It is a lonely existence and not what I desire for the rest of my life. I have come to accept that I am who I am and this is what God has for me. If I do find a partner some day I will not hesitate to embrace that opporuntity. I know some of you will be horrified to hear that, so be it.

I don't want to hijack the thread and make this all about me...


No.

The first line says he struggled-- as in past tense.

So maybe he is already living on the other side of through!

:bliss

Here's your answer.

[Jeffrey]

If he is not a believer in Jesus Christ, why would he be here-- to make sport of Christians?

I think he could find better things to do than that.

He is here because he is a Christian who has or used to have a sin problem.

Actually, you need to go through the DADT thread. I asked him this question. I was led to believe he's not believing in much right now (or she).

I don't believe he/she is making sport of Christians. He's contributing to the thread. Sharing his perspective. I don't presume to know his/her motive or what they hope to gain.

In fact, if they even are a believer, I'm not sure how I'd even interact with Azzan. It would be completely up to them. If I was involved in Azzan's life, and Azzan was a believer, it would be much different. As it is, I'm interacting with a profile name.

[coadie]

If he is not a believer in Jesus Christ, why would he be here-- to make sport of Christians?

I think he could find better things to do than that.

He is here because he is a Christian who has or used to have a sin problem.

If they claim to be raised a Christian and voted democrat, we won't know if they repented till 1 week from Tuesday.

We have had the talk with you about easy believe ism before.

[kayl]

he said that anyone that is gay can have straight relations but eventually because the sex drive is so strong they will fall (and have a homosexual encounter I presume)...isn't the same true of heterosexuals having an affair?

The truth is they don't necessarily have to break down and given in.

Amen. :)

[kayl]

If he is not a believer in Jesus Christ, why would he be here-- to make sport of Christians?

I think he could find better things to do than that.

He is here because he is a Christian who has or used to have a sin problem.

He has stated that he is gay, he was a christian, and he was a lurker. He decided to give us his opinion on some matters. That is all. He is not here with a testimony of deliverance. He is not here to promote the gay agenda.

[Hoovie]

He has stated that he is gay, he was a christian, and he was a lurker. He decided to give us his opinion on some matters. That is all. He is not here with a testimony of deliverance. He is not here to promote the gay agenda.

I think I missed that. Or do you mean "was" as in past tense?

[kayl]

I think I missed that. Or do you mean "was" as in past tense?

Past tense. He stated that he was born again of water and the spirit, and that it did nothing to help with his struggle.

[kayl]

I think I missed that. Or do you mean "was" as in past tense?

I thought I had addressed this post. :pullhair Past tense.

[kayl]

Welcome to the discussion board. Since you haven't introduced yourself as bringing an issue, i want to be the first to give you the biggest royal welcome.

Thank you.

[notofworks]

Amen. :)


Kayl, I haven't seen you here before. I welcome you but don't condone your sin.:)

[notofworks]

Welcome everybody is right. We are all here under the same privileges, obligations and rules.

And since this thread has Azzan in the title, WELCOME! especially to Azzan.


Prax and Hoovie.......I love you both but I don't condone your sin!:heeheehee

[BeenThinkin]

Prax and Hoovie.......I love you both but I don't condone your sin!:heeheehee


NOW, have you been to confession today? I have this "feeling" that you need to! :toofunny

BT

[notofworks]

NOW, have you been to confession today? I have this "feeling" that you need to! :toofunny

BT


BT, I love you, but I don't condone your sin!:heeheehee(I'm entertaining myself, here)

[BeenThinkin]

BT, I love you, but I don't condone your sin!:heeheehee(I'm entertaining myself, here)



Which one? :razz Isn't there a scripture that says something like this..."In the multitude of sin there is....." No! Wait maybe it said something about counsel! I don't know!

BT

[Azzan]

Thank you all. I never thought I would receive this kind of response to my presence here.

[Jack Shephard]

Thank you all. I never thought I would receive this kind of response to my presence here.

I will chim in here. You are as welcome here as all the rest of us as far as I am concerned. I don't draw friendship lines at sexuality or spirituality for that matter. Welcome. Be at home. Join the fray. Don't let anyone push you away because they are ignorant or motivation by malice.

[Cindy]

Welcome, I try to be kind to everyone.

If I'm not, don't take it personally, I am just cranky sometimes.

[Jack Shephard]

Welcome, I try to be kind to everyone.

If I'm not, don't take it personally, I am just cranky sometimes.

Sometimes??

[Cindy]

Sometimes??

:toofunny

[whoami]

Hi Azzan.

Welcome to the online Apostolic looney bin.

LOL!!!! :thumbsup

[crakjak]

Thank you all. I never thought I would receive this kind of response to my presence here.

Welcome Azzan, we are all just flawed followers of Christ, some of us just are in denial! The grace of God is more abundant than all our sin, when we learn to walk in that truth, we all are much better humans!

[Azzan]

Hi Azzan.

Welcome to the online Apostolic looney bin.

It certainly seems that way to me sometimes after spending over a year watching this forum. :toofunny

[Falla39]

Azzan,
Just now seeing this thread!

Welcome to AFF!

Falla39

[UltraCon]

Azzan stated on this thread that if finds a gay partner Azzan will embrace it.

God is coming for a church without spot or blemish. Whose sins are washed away! For those who no longer still pursue or conduct willfully sinful acts.

The fact Azzan is still in homosexuality by own admission means Azzan is currently headed to hell.

Only former homosexuals will be in Heaven. Not those who currently are when Jesus comes, or those who were when they died.


Praying for Azzans deliverance. Homosexuality is a demonic spirit that will send people to hell unless they come out of it and get delivered.


But people only get deliverance from something they want to be delivered from.

[scotty]

Had to know someone would shoot the tires out on the welcome wagon.

Don't mind him Azzan, every forum has one. Someone just forgot to give him his meds this morning.

[UltraCon]

Had to know someone would shoot the tires out on the welcome wagon.

Don't mind him Azzan, every forum has one. Someone just forgot to give him his meds this morning.


Truth hurts at times.



Doesn't matter if we like it or not, don't matter what we think about, the word is clear on it.

[Monterrey]

Aha!

Azzan,

With love and charity,

You must repent of your sins, (sodomy), and forsake those sins. Just as any that follow iniquity must do.

That includes adulterers, fornicators, thieves and liars.

Apostolics must not condone this sin, but must stand firm that there is repentence.

[scotty]

Truth hurts at times.



Doesn't matter if we like it or not, don't matter what we think about, the word is clear on it.

yes it does UC, and I agree with the word. But your presentation really stinks. :vomit

[UltraCon]

yes it does UC, and I agree with the word. But your presentation really stinks. :vomit

Keep in mind that we are not dealing with a brand new person to Pentecost here.

Azzan claims to have been around truth for a long time. He/She knows the truth and is looking for justification here.


I'm not going to take part in justifying homosexuality or any other type of sin.

[timjoiner]

This forum needs a good ole "Sodom and Gomorrah" cleansing!

[notofworks]

Aha!

Azzan,

With love and charity,

You must repent of your sins, (sodomy), and forsake those sins. Just as any that follow iniquity must do.

That includes adulterers, fornicators, thieves and liars.

Apostolics must not condone this sin, but must stand firm that there is repentence.


Just wanna let you know, Monterrey, I do not condone any of your sins either.

[notofworks]

I agree but seriously doubt that you are going to get off of it.:thumbsup

Sorry, I already used the idiot line, so you're going to have to have an original thought, which so far, hasn't happened. Try a line that you didn't learn from Focus On The Family.

[timjoiner]

Sorry, I already used the idiot line, so you're going to have to have an original thought, which so far, hasn't happened. Try a line that you didn't learn from Focus On The Family.

See...I knew it!:thumbsup

[notofworks]

See...I knew it!:thumbsup

Strike two. Wanna try again? I'm not interested in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

[notofworks]

Keep in mind that we are not dealing with a brand new person to Pentecost here.

Azzan claims to have been around truth for a long time. He/She knows the truth and is looking for justification here.


I'm not going to take part in justifying homosexuality or any other type of sin.


And I think that is just fantastic! You stand your ground, there, UltraCon!!! We applaud you! I do need to remind you, however, that neither, Azzan, the Admin, nor God justifies any of your sins, either!

See there? Now we can all get along!:)

[timjoiner]

Strike two. Wanna try again? I'm not interested in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Still on! I was hoping that you was volunteering....:thumbsup

[timjoiner]

I have been using the wink smilie....I just happen to think that this may not be the best thread to use it on.

[notofworks]

I have been using the wink smilie....I just happen to think that this may not be the best thread to use it on.



Yes, you're just so irresistible.

[notofworks]

Still on! I was hoping that you was volunteering....:thumbsup


You people always give away your IQ if you say enough.

(the funny part is, he probably doesn't even know what's wrong with what he said)

[timjoiner]

You people always give away your IQ if you say enough.

(the funny part is, he probably doesn't even know what's wrong with what he said)

I am smart enough to not embrace sin........That is smart!

[notofworks]

I am smart enough to not embrace sin........That is smart!


How fortunate for you that you are SOOOO strong that you cannot be felled by the mighty power of sin! How lucky you are!

The great part is, the more you take potshots at me, the less you say idiotic, insulting, and completely pointless things to Azzan!

Ok, your turn. Say something idiotic again.

[timjoiner]

How fortunate for you that you are SOOOO strong that you cannot be felled by the mighty power of sin! How lucky you are!

The great part is, the more you take potshots at me, the less you say idiotic, insulting, and completely pointless things to Azzan!

Ok, your turn. Say something idiotic again.

Nah! You are doing a better job at it than me.

[Jack Shephard]

I am smart enough to not embrace sin........That is smart!

The real question is are you smart enough to not embrace tradition?

[Jack Shephard]

This forum needs a good ole "Sodom and Gomorrah" cleansing!

Oh please!

[notofworks]

Nah! You are doing a better job at it than me.


So far, I seem to be better at everything, including expressing reasonable thoughts.

[Ohio Pastor]

This forum needs less idiots.

With the new additions seems that may not be far off.....

[notofworks]

With the new additions seems that may not be far off.....


Well, see here OhioPastor, on this forum, people are allowed to express oppositional points of view, as opposed to other "apostolic" forums that are afraid to have their viewpoints challenged. Isn't that great??!!

[Ohio Pastor]

Well, see here OhioPastor, on this forum, people are allowed to express oppositional points of view, as opposed to other "apostolic" forums that are afraid to have their viewpoints challenged. Isn't that great??!!

I see you two have meet ..... :ursofunny

[notofworks]

I see you two have meet ..... :ursofunny


Can you form a sentence with intelligible grammar and maybe someone will laugh with you.

[Ohio Pastor]

Can you form a sentence with intelligible grammar and maybe someone will laugh with you.

NOW do you like Baseball?

[Cindy]

Rangers VS Giants?

[Cindy]

BTW, good to see you post again OP.

[Ohio Pastor]

Maybe NOW enjoys football more than he enjoys baseball

[notofworks]

NOW do you like Baseball?


I'll bite. I LOVE baseball. Greatest team sport ever.

[Jack Shephard]

I'll bite. I LOVE baseball. Greatest team sport ever.

What about curling!?!?!?!?

[Ohio Pastor]

I'll bite. I LOVE baseball. Greatest team sport ever.

Did you ever play baseball?

[Bowas]

Sure. Why not? Perhaps next we can welcome an "Apostolic ________"
Come on. Oxymoronic Apostolic Gay.
Having said that, can a person be Apostolic yet have certain propensities yet not act on them? OK. But one cannot be an Apostolic herion addict or pediphial(sp?) or drunk or whatever.
I am not putting down the inclination of this sin just the action of it. the word is very clear.
I once was a crack addict and a drunk myself, but was not an Apostolic.
I gave one up to become the other as the two are incompatable.
"And such WERE some of you..."
Does it matter what one once was? NO! So why must one identify themselves as a hyphenated-Apostolic.
If this person was once a practicing homo sexual but no longer is, Praise God!, but IF one is continuing in the practice, then that cannot be accepted.
This is not to be considered a condemnation of an individual rather the not accepting of the behavior.
Prayers are with all that struggle with any and all addictions, sins and vises.

[notofworks]

Did you ever play baseball?



Sigh. Yes, get to your point, however brilliant it may be.

[Jack Shephard]

Sure. Why not? Perhaps next we can welcome an "Apostolic ________"
Come on. Oxymoronic Apostolic Gay.
Having said that, can a person be Apostolic yet have certain propensities yet not act on them? OK. But one cannot be an Apostolic herion addict or pediphial(sp?) or drunk or whatever.
I am not putting down the inclination of this sin just the action of it. the word is very clear.
I once was a crack addict and a drunk myself, but was not an Apostolic.
I gave one up to become the other as the two are incompatable.
"And such WERE some of you..."
Does it matter what one once was? NO! So why must one identify themselves as a hyphenated-Apostolic.
If this person was once a practicing homo sexual but no longer is, Praise God!, but IF one is continuing in the practice, then that cannot be accepted.
This is not to be considered a condemnation of an individual rather the not accepting of the behavior.
Prayers are with all that struggle with any and all addictions, sins and vises.


The term Apostolic has been re-defined over the past however many years. Now it means to be like a certain current religious group. Back in the Bible days it meant to be like the Apostles. I would venture to say that most churches in and out of this movement aren't of the true Biblical Apostolic mode and they are perverting the term to mean something it is not.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Azzan is a gay believer in God who has struggled with homosexuality. While not condoning the sin, can AFF welcome Azzan to the forum or will we shun a gay believer? Personally, I welcome him with all his faults. What say ye?

"Struggled?" Doesn't that mean he is no longer active?

[Evang.Benincasa]

It is common on this forum to have the gay accusations thrown at me

Really?

[Praxeas]

"Struggled?" Doesn't that mean he is no longer active?
I believe he claims to be celebate

[notofworks]

Really?


Yes, really. I am comfortable with who and what I am and am unbothered by the 8-year-old, playground-mentality bullies. Jesus was called names when he hung out with those that religious people didn't want to be around, so I like the company I'm in.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Yes, really. I am comfortable with who and what I am and am unbothered by the 8-year-old, playground-mentality bullies. Jesus was called names when he hung out with those that religious people didn't want to be around, so I like the company I'm in.

Jesus wasn't called a homosexual.

Jesus would of never hung out with homosexuals.

I think all this political correctness is heading for a 50 car pile up.

[notofworks]

Jesus wasn't called a homosexual.

••Didn't say he was.

Jesus would of never hung out with homosexuals.

••You're following a different Jesus than I am.

I think all this political correctness is heading for a 50 car pile up.

You ARE a 50-car-pileup if I've ever seen one. Nice to see you back.

[Praxeas]

Jesus wasn't called a homosexual.

Jesus would of never hung out with homosexuals.

I think all this political correctness is heading for a 50 car pile up.
He hung out with Adulterers, liars, thieves, why not homosexuals? You don't think homosexuals need to be saved too? I do

[BeenThinkin]

I believe he claims to be celebate


Did you hear about the Catholic Cardinal that was asked one day to double check the translation of the Bible and make sure it was all right!

They found him sitting in the floor crying. His superior asked him what was wrong.... did he find something in the translation that was incorrect.

Oh YES, YES! He cried out! It was "celebrate" not "celibate!" lol

BT

[MissBrattified]

Jesus wasn't called a homosexual.

Correct. :)

Jesus would of never hung out with homosexuals.

INcorrect.

Matthew 9:10-13

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[notofworks]

Correct. :)



INcorrect.

Matthew 9:10-13

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


Miss Brat, there are many things I see in the Christian world that make me rant and rave, some things that sadden me, and then occasionally things that make me angry. But when I read something like EB wrote, it breaks my heart. It really does hurt. What happened to the picture of Jesus who looked out over the city and wept, who was moved with compassion because they wondered as sheep having no shepherd? Do we even know that Jesus?

God help us.

[Jack Shephard]

Evang. B. You never cease to amaze me at your lack of wisdom. Not to mention your lack of mercy and grace.

[Charnock]

A new low for AFF.

[notofworks]

A new low for AFF.



In what way?

[Charnock]

A new low for AFF.

In what way?

Your acceptance of yet another abomination.

[Evang.Benincasa]

He hung out with Adulterers, liars, thieves, why not homosexuals? You don't think homosexuals need to be saved too? I do

Wasn't it repentant adulterers Jesus was around, and liar who gave up lying, and thieves who asked for forgiveness. Jesus was accused of fraternizing with the malcontents of society, yet that wasn't what He was involved in. When Mary washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her long uncut hair, it was done through a repentant heart. Jesus was pure and blameless concerning His culture, and couldn't have been hanging out with homosexuals. If He had hung out with active homosexuals who were totally involved with their perversions He would of had more problems then He could handle from the religious of His time.

Does Jesus care about sinners? Of course He does, repentant ones.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[MissBrattified]

Wasn't it repentant adulterers Jesus was around, and liar who gave up lying, and thieves who asked for forgiveness. Jesus was accused of fraternizing with the malcontents of society, yet that wasn't what He was involved in. When Mary washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her long uncut hair, it was done through a repentant heart. Jesus was pure and blameless concerning His culture, and couldn't have been hanging out with homosexuals. If He had hung out with active homosexuals who were totally involved with their perversions He would of had more problems then He could handle from the religious of His time.

Does Jesus care about sinners? Of course He does, repentant ones.

Wow. I'm shocked at the whitewashing and spinning in this post.

Jesus ate with publicans and sinners. It did not specify what types of sinners they were. Sorry. And they weren't called "repentant" sinners at that point.

Jesus only cares about repentant sinners? :blink

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ died for us (presumably because He cared for us) while we were YET [still] sinners.

[notofworks]

Your acceptance of yet another abomination.



I will never stop loving, accepting, embracing, and befriending people. I love people and do my very best to view everyone, including you, through the eyes of Jesus. Occasionally I fail and once again kneel at the foot of the cross and ask God to give me His heart for those that are disenfranchised, hurt, disconnected, or in need of the grace of Christ, regardless of their history, past, successes or failures.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Correct. :)



INcorrect.

Matthew 9:10-13

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sister try your emphasis on REPENTANCE.

Again, Jesus didn't hang out with homosexuals who were actively engaging in their perversions. He would of been giving the Pharisees and Sadducees and Herodians way too much ammo to accuse Him. Jesus tells the religious Jews that He is there to convert them. Don't you see that?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[notofworks]

Wasn't it repentant adulterers Jesus was around, and liar who gave up lying, and thieves who asked for forgiveness. Jesus was accused of fraternizing with the malcontents of society, yet that wasn't what He was involved in. When Mary washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her long uncut hair, it was done through a repentant heart. Jesus was pure and blameless concerning His culture, and couldn't have been hanging out with homosexuals. If He had hung out with active homosexuals who were totally involved with their perversions He would of had more problems then He could handle from the religious of His time.

Does Jesus care about sinners? Of course He does, repentant ones.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com


When Jesus sat with the Tax Collectors, the most hated and corrupt of their time, they had made no move toward Christ or any kind of Godliness at all. When the father looked out and saw his son returning home, he ran to his son, embraced him and kissed before he knew why his son was returning.

Jesus cares about everyone repentant or not. He even cares about you.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Wow. I'm shocked at the whitewashing and spinning in this post.

Jesus ate with publicans and sinners. It did not specify what types of sinners they were. Sorry. And they weren't called "repentant" sinners at that point.

Jesus only cares about repentant sinners? :blink

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ died for us (presumably because He cared for us) while we were YET [still] sinners.

Sister, while we WERE sinners. Again, you chose a scripture that speaks of Jesus siting with publicans to preach and convert them. He wasn't hanging out with active homosexuals engaging in their perversions. Political correctness is sinking this country and popping a cap into the back of the head of Pentecost.

[Evang.Benincasa]

When Jesus sat with the Tax Collectors, the most hated and corrupt of their time, they had made no move toward Christ or any kind of Godliness at all. When the father looked out and saw his son returning home, he ran to his son, embraced him and kissed before he knew why his son was returning.

Jesus cares about everyone repentant or not. He even cares about you.

Jesus cares if you repentant, if you don't repent, He doesn't even KNOW you.

[notofworks]

Sister try your emphasis on REPENTANCE.

Again, Jesus didn't hang out with homosexuals who were actively engaging in their perversions. He would of been giving the Pharisees and Sadducees and Herodians way too much ammo to accuse Him. Jesus tells the religious Jews that He is there to convert them. Don't you see that?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com



She said it very well...."While we were yet sinners."

Wow. Such grace. Thank you Jesus for your efficacious grace that doesn't depend on our performance!!!

[notofworks]

Jesus cares if you repentant, if you don't repent, He doesn't even KNOW you.


And there are many that do wonders in His name that He doesn't know. Of course He cares if we repent (turn), but you're wrong about what you said.

[MissBrattified]

Sister try your emphasis on REPENTANCE.

Again, Jesus didn't hang out with homosexuals who were actively engaging in their perversions. He would of been giving the Pharisees and Sadducees and Herodians way too much ammo to accuse Him. Jesus tells the religious Jews that He is there to convert them. Don't you see that?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Jesus didn't shy away from giving the Pharisees or Sadducees "ammo", and that is a VERY weak argument anyway. :rolleyes2

I don't find any record in scripture where Jesus ever shunned the company of a sinner. Do you have one to share? I'd be happy to read it.

Of COURSE He wanted to call sinners to repentance; Christians should be concerned with the same goal. But saying that He only cares about "repentant sinners?" That's a twist you don't get out of scripture. Christ died for us well in advance of our repentance. He cared for me from the moment I was conceived, (and before) and well in advance of my realization that He existed.

You'll never have the chance to lead a homosexual to Christ if you never talk to one.

[MissBrattified]

Sister, while we WERE sinners. Again, you chose a scripture that speaks of Jesus siting with publicans to preach and convert them. He wasn't hanging out with active homosexuals engaging in their perversions. Political correctness is sinking this country and popping a cap into the back of the head of Pentecost.

Who said He was "engaging in their perversions?????" If He was in the vicinity of an adulteress, was He "engaging in her perversion?" What about around a liar or a thief?

You're not on your game tonight, EB.

[Evang.Benincasa]

She said it very well...."While we were yet sinners."

Wow. Such grace. Thank you Jesus for your efficacious grace that doesn't depend on our performance!!!

WERE sinners, I know that is hard for you to deal with, but the name of the game is change through repentance.

Sorry, Jesus wasn't giving the right hand of fellowship or the kiss of greeting to any male prostitutes.

[Evang.Benincasa]

And there are many that do wonders in His name that He doesn't know. Of course He cares if we repent (turn), but you're wrong about what you said.

No, I'm right. Very right. :)

[MissBrattified]

WERE sinners, I know that is hard for you to deal with, but the name of the game is change through repentance.

Sorry, Jesus wasn't giving the right hand of fellowship or the kiss of greeting to any male prostitutes.

I'm sorry, but YOU are misquoting the scripture. Isn't that against your religion? It's against mine.

It doesn't say "AFTER you *were* sinners", Christ died for you." It says "WHILE you were YET (that means "still", in case you didn't know) SINNERS"

Christ died for ME while I was STILL a sinner!!!!!!! Good grief. What is wrong with you? That's basic Bible, brother.

[Bowas]

A question I have is why would this individual feel it was important to identify his/her sin? This is not a counceling forum or any place where one's sin's (prior or present) need to be aired.
If one is repented, it is under the blood and there it should remain. Why must certain groups always seem to be seeking an identity. We were all sinners but it is no ones buisness what sins that we are tempted with.
If they are Apostolic, they are no longer gay, if they are gay, they are not Apostolic.

[Charnock]

The notion that AFF is trying to convert this homosexual is laughable and downright silly.

You are not going to convert him by telling him he's okay, and suggesting he has no need of repentance.

No, you are way too worried about his feelings, and very unconcerned for his soul.

[Charnock]

A question I have is why would this individual feel it was important to identify his/her sin? This is not a counceling forum or any place where one's sin's (prior or present) need to be aired.
If one is repented, it is under the blood and there it should remain. Why must certain groups always seem to be seeking an identity. We were all sinners but it is no ones buisness what sins that we are tempted with.
If they are Apostolic, they are no longer gay, if they are gay, they are not Apostolic.

Exactly.

However, it's very vogue to be tolerant these days.

[Charnock]

Btw, has anyone thought to research the name "Azzan?"

It means strong thorn.

Think about it.

[MissBrattified]

The notion that AFF is trying to convert this homosexual is laughable and downright silly.

I think it's pretty clear that Azzan's posts were mainly relevant to another thread, and no one seemed to be under the impression that he would be converted anytime soon.

That said, EB's posts are still way off the mark from a scriptural perspective.

You are not going to convert him by telling him he's okay, and suggesting he has no need of repentance.

Who suggested that Azzan had no need of repentance?

[Charnock]

I think it's pretty clear that Azzan's posts were mainly relevant to another thread, and no one seemed to be under the impression that he would be converted anytime soon.

That said, EB's posts are still way off the mark from a scriptural perspective.



Who suggested that Azzan had no need of repentance?

Have you suggested he does need to repent?

[MissBrattified]

Have you suggested he does need to repent?

No, not specifically. I thought the AFF's stance on homosexuality that was clearly posted (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=975510&postcount=407) on the original thread covered that adequately. I completely support (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=975686&postcount=457)that post.

Who suggested that Azzan had no need of repentance?

[Charnock]

No, not specifically. I thought the AFF's stance on homosexuality that was clearly posted on the original thread covered that adequately. I completely support (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=975686&postcount=457)that post.

Who suggested that Azzan had no need of repentance?

Several have suggested he does need to repent, to many jeers.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Jesus didn't shy away from giving the Pharisees or Sadducees "ammo", and that is a VERY weak argument anyway. :rolleyes2

Sister, what was the penalty for homosexuals in the Bible?
Do you know what the Jews did to homosexuals during the time of Jesus Christ? Way worse than what they did to adulterer.


I don't find any record in scripture where Jesus ever shunned the company of a sinner. Do you have one to share? I'd be happy to read it.

Leviticus 20:13, and Romans 1:26–27. While Leviticus calls for the death penalty, Paul still calls homosexuality an abomination. One that God hates.
To be fraternizing with active unrepentant homosexuals would of been impossible. Most of the homosexuals during the first century were temple prostitutes. The Jews would of killed them on the spot if they wandered into their districts that were off limits to the Gentiles. Let alone homosexual Gentiles.


Of COURSE He wanted to call sinners to repentance; Christians should be concerned with the same goal.

Wait a minute, isn't that what the scripture verse you had offered dealing with? It is dealing with Jesus giving the religious Jews an explanation on WHY He is hanging out with the dregs of society. Not, to be their politically correct bud, but to call them out from their perversion. I think that is pretty simple.



But saying that He only cares about "repentant sinners?"

Of course He does.

Does God hear the prayer of sinners?

You can't be actively involved in debauchery and be in communion with God.

Someone who is a pedophile still have communion with God?


That's a twist you don't get out of scripture. Christ died for us well in advance of our repentance.

Sister, you are either missing it, or not understanding what is being said.

Sister, Jesus died for all sins, yet we MUST REPENTANT.

No other way around that.


He cared for me from the moment I was conceived,

So, were you saved at birth? Were you born saved? No, you don't believe that. Jesus didn't hang out with homosexuals who were actively seeking homosexual relationships. Sorry, that is not what Matthew 9:10-13 is saying.


(and before) and well in advance of my realization that He existed.

Again, you weren't saved before you realized He existed. You and all others must repentant. No repentance no communion. Reject Christ, and you in turn are rejected. Play with the salvation and you will be turned over to eternal rejection.


You'll never have the chance to lead a homosexual to Christ if you never talk to one.

I live in Fort Lauderdale. Think about it.

Also, they aren't looking to change, and those who are in the "I'm struggling" movement aren't looking to change either. Only those who are ready to get real and repentant and stop making excuses for their sin will overcome.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[MissBrattified]

Several have suggested he does need to repent, to many jeers.

Ohhhh, okay. See, now we have something reasonable to discuss. :)

I'm not on board with the mockery. Better?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Who said He was "engaging in their perversions?????" If He was in the vicinity of an adulteress, was He "engaging in her perversion?" What about around a liar or a thief?

You're not on your game tonight, EB.

Sister, the thief repented? Didn't one repent, and the other didn't?

[MissBrattified]

Sister, the thief repented? Didn't one repent, and the other didn't?

Why are you confusing "caring" with "salvation?" I didn't say that we're all saved before we repent; I said that God cared for us before we repented. If your view is that He didn't care for us until we repented, then I consider that to be absolutely incorrect.

[Evang.Benincasa]

A question I have is why would this individual feel it was important to identify his/her sin? This is not a counceling forum or any place where one's sin's (prior or present) need to be aired.
If one is repented, it is under the blood and there it should remain. Why must certain groups always seem to be seeking an identity. We were all sinners but it is no ones buisness what sins that we are tempted with.
If they are Apostolic, they are no longer gay, if they are gay, they are not Apostolic.

Amazing isn't it? Yet, we are living in a politically correct society where homosexuals are the people's pet. They are in need of repentance like all others who are tangled in sexual perversion. Plain and simple. When it use to be held under wraps now it is vogue to stick everyone's face in it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Why are you confusing "caring" with "salvation?" I didn't say that we're all saved before we repent; I said that God cared for us before we repented. If your view is that He didn't care for us until we repented, then I consider that to be absolutely incorrect.

Sister, answer me this, in Matthew was Jesus answering the Jews on why He was with the publicans? Yes, or no?

[MissBrattified]

Sister, answer me this, in Matthew was Jesus answering the Jews on why He was with the publicans? Yes, or no?

Absolutely. We're in agreement regarding His purpose.

Had He already accomplished His purpose at the point when the question was asked? Yes, or no?

[Evang.Benincasa]

1Co 6:9-11

"have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor SODOMITES, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit. And certain of you WERE these! but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were declared righteous, in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God."

Eph 5:11-12

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."


Mat 9:11-13 "And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE."

Jesus didn't contradict Paul, nor did Paul contradict Jesus. Everything was based on repentance. No repentance, no fellowship. Jesus was answering the Jews, on why He was allowing the publicans to sit with Him. Mary washed Jesus' feet with her tears of repentance, and dried His feet with her long uncut hair. Yet, when Simon the leper thought Jesus was a false prophet because of Jesus allowing the woman to touch Him, Jesus drew attention to her repentant heart.

Jesus wasn't and wouldn't allow an unrepentant prostitute to kiss His feet, and if she was an unrepentant prostitute kissing His feet, Jesus would of had no explanation for their accusations.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

[Evang.Benincasa]

Absolutely. We're in agreement regarding His purpose.

Had He already accomplished His purpose at the point when the question was asked? Yes, or no?

The point is, He was in the process of preaching, and therefore He gave the retort of the well needing no physician. Again, Jesus was not in fellowship with them. He replies to the accusation of fellowship, with the answer that His only purpose was to convert them.

How about Paul? Why is he telling a church family to remove a member who was engaging in incest with his mother?

1Co 5:1-2

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be TAKEN AWAY FROM AMONG YOU."

Those who are unrepentant, or actively engaging in their debauchery, are in no way to be fellowshipped until they have repented and been restored.

[Praxeas]

Aha!

Azzan,

With love and charity,

You must repent of your sins, (sodomy), and forsake those sins. Just as any that follow iniquity must do.

That includes adulterers, fornicators, thieves and liars.

Apostolics must not condone this sin, but must stand firm that there is repentence.
I don't see anyone condoning the sin of sodomy, do you?

[Praxeas]

Keep in mind that we are not dealing with a brand new person to Pentecost here.

Azzan claims to have been around truth for a long time. He/She knows the truth and is looking for justification here.


I'm not going to take part in justifying homosexuality or any other type of sin.
He doesn't seem to be looking for justification nor is anyone justifying any sexual sins, not limited to but including relations with the same sex.

There are a lot more Azzan's in our ranks, including those that were raised in Pentecost, who are silent about what they struggle with. They are silent but in need of help. Silent, and never getting help, because they fear what the hate mongers will say or do. Sad

[Praxeas]

This forum needs a good ole "Sodom and Gomorrah" cleansing!
This forum needs another visitation by Jesus rebuking the pharisees, Sadducees and hypocrites

[Praxeas]

Wasn't it repentant adulterers Jesus was around, and liar who gave up lying, and thieves who asked for forgiveness. Jesus was accused of fraternizing with the malcontents of society, yet that wasn't what He was involved in. When Mary washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her long uncut hair, it was done through a repentant heart. Jesus was pure and blameless concerning His culture, and couldn't have been hanging out with homosexuals. If He had hung out with active homosexuals who were totally involved with their perversions He would of had more problems then He could handle from the religious of His time.

Does Jesus care about sinners? Of course He does, repentant ones.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com (http://www.OnTimeJournal.com)
If it was why was Jesus saying sinners need a physician?

EB...read the following. You'd be the pharisee

Mat 9:10 And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
Mat 9:12 But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
Mat 9:13 Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

See, you couldn't believe that Jesus the Messiah would spend time with a homosexual and they couldn't believe Jesus the messiah would spend time with sinners....you don't see the irony?

[Praxeas]

Wasn't it repentant adulterers Jesus was around, and liar who gave up lying, and thieves who asked for forgiveness. Jesus was accused of fraternizing with the malcontents of society, yet that wasn't what He was involved in. When Mary washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her long uncut hair, it was done through a repentant heart. Jesus was pure and blameless concerning His culture, and couldn't have been hanging out with homosexuals. If He had hung out with active homosexuals who were totally involved with their perversions He would of had more problems then He could handle from the religious of His time.

Does Jesus care about sinners? Of course He does, repentant ones.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com (http://www.OnTimeJournal.com)
Jesus only cares about repentant sinners? Why did he die then before any sinner repented? What a screwed up sense of grace you have

God didn't send his son to die for a repented world.

Luk 15:1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him.
Luk 15:2 And the Ultra Con and the scribes grumbled, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them."
Luk 15:3 So he told them this parable:
Luk 15:4 "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?
Luk 15:5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luk 15:6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.'
Luk 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

[Praxeas]

1Ti 1:15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

[Praxeas]

Sister try your emphasis on REPENTANCE.

Again, Jesus didn't hang out with homosexuals who were actively engaging in their perversions. He would of been giving the Pharisees and Sadducees and Herodians way too much ammo to accuse Him. Jesus tells the religious Jews that He is there to convert them. Don't you see that?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com (http://www.OnTimeJournal.com)
lol...how can he call sinners TO repentance if they are already repented? You: Jesus doesn't hang out with sinners that have not repented yet...

Jesus: "I am sent not to the righteous (those that have repented) but to the sinners (those that need to repent) to call them to repentance"...

According to you Jesus is a contradiction. He is called to unrepentant sinners to call them to repentance but since he would never hang out with the unrepentant, he can't fulfill his calling

[Praxeas]

WERE sinners, I know that is hard for you to deal with, but the name of the game is change through repentance.

Sorry, Jesus wasn't giving the right hand of fellowship or the kiss of greeting to any male prostitutes.
Were sinners because they repented. Jesus was hanging with sinners, not repentant sinners (an oxymoron)

[Praxeas]

A question I have is why would this individual feel it was important to identify his/her sin? This is not a counceling forum or any place where one's sin's (prior or present) need to be aired.
If one is repented, it is under the blood and there it should remain. Why must certain groups always seem to be seeking an identity. We were all sinners but it is no ones buisness what sins that we are tempted with.
If they are Apostolic, they are no longer gay, if they are gay, they are not Apostolic.
This person identified his temptation, not his sin. This is also not a church.

I guess don't ask, don't tell works for the Apostolics too

[Praxeas]

The notion that AFF is trying to convert this homosexual is laughable and downright silly.

You are not going to convert him by telling him he's okay, and suggesting he has no need of repentance.

No, you are way too worried about his feelings, and very unconcerned for his soul.
Who said he does not need to repent of whatever sin he has committed? Now that is silly.

[Praxeas]

Here is some news.

1) AFF never had a membership criteria, never.

2) AFF has had gay and ex-gay members registered even when the pharisees were still here looking down their long legalistic noses at everyone else

3) There will be liars and gossipers in the lake of fire too.

[rgcraig]

This person identified his temptation, not his sin. This is also not a church.

I guess don't ask, don't tell works for the Apostolics too

Exactly!

How many UPC churches have gays being used or in leadership positions? I know some of them, so the sticks and stones can't hurt.

Amazing how unglued some can get over something that isn't even newsworthy anyway since there was someone on AFF more than two years ago that came and told his story. He met some AFFer's and was baptized.

Maybe we could start a thread here posting the ministers that have been involved in adultery even on FCF/NFCF and are involved in posting on AMF.

Amazing how some can pick and choose what they want to hear/believe.

The double standard is what turn so many away from God. Sad too because God has nothing to do with it - it's people.

[rgcraig]

I've bumped the thread from THREE years ago when ChosenbyOne found us. I'm not sure of his status as he was dying with aids, but if association with AFF put him in contact with loving people like Rhonda and Falla39 and caused him to see his need for repentance and baptism in Jesus' name, then Lord send us 100 more that we can witness to!

[notofworks]

The notion that AFF is trying to convert this homosexual is laughable and downright silly.

You are not going to convert him by telling him he's okay, and suggesting he has no need of repentance.

No, you are way too worried about his feelings, and very unconcerned for his soul.


I'm not trying to convert anyone. I simply love and accept people for who they are. It's what I need, you need, and anyone else needs. Jesus is the one who converts or changes any of us.

[notofworks]

A question I have is why would this individual feel it was important to identify his/her sin? This is not a counceling forum or any place where one's sin's (prior or present) need to be aired.
If one is repented, it is under the blood and there it should remain. Why must certain groups always seem to be seeking an identity. We were all sinners but it is no ones buisness what sins that we are tempted with.
If they are Apostolic, they are no longer gay, if they are gay, they are not Apostolic.


If you bothered to research or pay attention, I did a thread about the DADT policy in the military. After several pages, I said I'd be interested in hearing the viewpoint of a gay person rather than just all of us theorizing. Azzan responded.

[rgcraig]

Why can't we all have an attitude like this? It made a difference in Chosenbyone's life.

(Taken from the "I Have Aids Thread")
Dear Brother,

God bless you for your openness, and honesty! We are told in God's

Word that he that confesseth his sin and forsaketh it shall find mercy!!

Those who hide their sin, it will not be well with them. We have all, in

different ways sinned and come short of God's mercy. But we have found

mercy because we did not continue but forsook sin and confessed it, first

of all to Jesus Christ, who is the ONE who died for our sins. Oh what that

should mean to every sinner saved by the power and grace of Almighty God!!

Brother, I just heard someone say recently that they are very close to

finding a cure for Aids. Even so, our God can totally heal ANY disease. So

don't give up HOPE just yet! God may not be through with you yet! Take

courage, God is BIGGER and GREATER than we have ever been able to

comprehend with our minds! I truly believe that!!

May God direct your path as you look to Him for your future. We all are

doing the same thing! We all have to trust our lives and futures in His

Precious Nail-scarred Hands!! I wish I could kiss HIS PRECIOUS HANDS and

tell HIM how very much I love HIM and want to do except HIS PERFECT

WILL!!

Blessings, Brother, in Jesus Name!

Falla39

[scotty]

Those who are unrepentant, or actively engaging in their debauchery, are in no way to be fellowshipped until they have repented and been restored.

I logged back on this morning , and I am speechless going through this whole thread. I honestly don't know what to say or where to begin and not sure I can say what I want to say without getting banned.

Repugnant is the first thought that comes to mind. Thankful is the overwhelming feeling that is sweeping over me. Thankful that no one in my church or AFF friends list is anything like you. For eight months last year I left the church and lived a life of sin. During that time many in my church still fellowshipped with me, had me over for dinner, had lunch, met at Starbucks for coffee. Every meeting had no condemnation or judgment despite knowing where I was in my life. They displayed the love and friendship I had always known them for. Many here on this forum still fellowshipped with me on Facebook during that same time. Cindy, Debra, Margie and several others never went a day without posting in fellowship at least 2 or 3 times. They have all watched with support now as I have returned by the grace of God and brought my new wife with me. I can tell you without a doubt, were not for the fellowship of those people I would still be in the world of sin.

It is views such as yours that feeds the "broad brush" criticisms from the liberals here, and for that , I despise you in every way. After reading this thread I am torn between being saddened at how your hurting other conservatives such as myself and pondering if I am truly conservative anymore. I may have to take the moderate position if conservative is defined by you.

I truly hope you find the grace that Christ has intended for us all to have. I shudder at the thought of how many He has sent your way and been rejected by your self righteous theology. I am saddened for you and yet sickened by you at the same time. You are the last thing Apostolic should ever represent and I pray you dont do so much damage that we cant overcome your ignorance.

[Bowas]

This person identified his temptation, not his sin. This is also not a church.

I guess don't ask, don't tell works for the Apostolics too

Why mention his temptation at all? As I said, we all have our own temptations but we do not need to publish them. Perhaps I missed the other posts where other posters "came out" and mentioned their particular temptations. It is nobodys buisness what they may or may not be. This is not a counseling forum.
It just seems to me some always seem to want to put their "temptations" out in public which often seems to want to lead to legitamicy or acceptance sooner or later.
Would the defense of this person be the same if they was struggling with beastiality or with NAMBLA?
Societally, and even in churches, we are lowering our gaurd to the point some churches now sanction gay lifestyles. It did not happen overnight. These are just my thoughts anyway.
Still unsure why he felt the need to mention it. Any ideas?

[scotty]

It is nobodys buisness what they may or may not be.


Still unsure why he felt the need to mention it. Any ideas?

No idea at all. Why do you ask ? Maybe thats none of your business ? AFF and many here have made the point (some very vividly) that no one condones the lifestyle. If it shouldnt be anyones business, why are you so worried about it ?

[rgcraig]

Why mention his temptation at all? As I said, we all have our own temptations but we do not need to publish them. Perhaps I missed the other posts where other posters "came out" and mentioned their particular temptations. It is nobodys buisness what they may or may not be. This is not a counseling forum.
It just seems to me some always seem to want to put their "temptations" out in public which often seems to want to lead to legitamicy or acceptance sooner or later.
Would the defense of this person be the same if they was struggling with beastiality or with NAMBLA?
Societally, and even in churches, we are lowering our gaurd to the point some churches now sanction gay lifestyles. It did not happen overnight. These are just my thoughts anyway.
Still unsure why he felt the need to mention it. Any ideas?

See post #153.

[rgcraig]

Thanks scotty for your post. I too was very saddened to read some of these posts.

[scotty]

Thanks scotty for your post. I too was very saddened to read some of these posts.

Just makes me want to ressurect the NUTTY BUS !!!!!!!!!! :pullhair

[whoami]

I logged back on this morning , and I am speechless going through this whole thread. I honestly don't know what to say or where to begin and not sure I can say what I want to say without getting banned.

Repugnant is the first thought that comes to mind. Thankful is the overwhelming feeling that is sweeping over me. Thankful that no one in my church or AFF friends list is anything like you. For eight months last year I left the church and lived a life of sin. During that time many in my church still fellowshipped with me, had me over for dinner, had lunch, met at Starbucks for coffee. Every meeting had no condemnation or judgment despite knowing where I was in my life. They displayed the love and friendship I had always known them for. Many here on this forum still fellowshipped with me on Facebook during that same time. Cindy, Debra, Margie and several others never went a day without posting in fellowship at least 2 or 3 times. They have all watched with support now as I have returned by the grace of God and brought my new wife with me. I can tell you without a doubt, were not for the fellowship of those people I would still be in the world of sin.

It is views such as yours that feeds the "broad brush" criticisms from the liberals here, and for that , I despise you in every way. After reading this thread I am torn between being saddened at how your hurting other conservatives such as myself and pondering if I am truly conservative anymore. I may have to take the moderate position if conservative is defined by you.

I truly hope you find the grace that Christ has intended for us all to have. I shudder at the thought of how many He has sent your way and been rejected by your self righteous theology. I am saddened for you and yet sickened by you at the same time. You are the last thing Apostolic should ever represent and I pray you dont do so much damage that we cant overcome your ignorance.

I agree. I consider myself conservative in every area of life EXCEPT religion/faith/theology because I do NOT want to be associated with the wild condemnation that I see coming from the religious conservative camp. I've seen some here on AFF who consider themselves conservative, but offer the love of Christ and compassion to those who are in sin. When I think of conservative though, I think of attitudes like EB, and that's why I will never define myself as a con.

[Charnock]

Honestly, Renda, who cares if you're "saddened?"

Like that matters?

You seem to care more for freedom of speech than you do for souls.

And that saddens me.

The continued slide of this forum into outright apostasy is like the loss of a close family member.

[Charnock]

Sin brings condemnation.

[Charnock]

Preachers are not called to tolerate sin.

They are called to preach the Word.

- You love your freedoms more than you love your God.

- You love your friends more than you love Truth.

- You love your opinion more than you love God's.

[Charnock]

Romans 1

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[scotty]

Sin brings condemnation.

Yes.. condemnation from God , not you. And if you don't like the "slide" this forum is taking, then find another. We'll let you know when and if we ever "slide" back to your misunderstanding.

[scotty]

Preachers are not called to tolerate sin.

They are called to preach the Word.

- You love your freedoms more than you love your God.

- You love your friends more than you love Truth.

- You love your opinion more than you love God's.


:chirp

[Charnock]

Homosexuality is a sin, a perversion, and an abomination.

Homosexuality will keep you from heaven.

You cannot be a Christian and be a homosexual.

Unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell.

[rgcraig]

Honestly, Renda, who cares if you're "saddened?"

Like that matters?

You seem to care more for freedom of speech than you do for souls.

And that saddens me.

The continued slide of this forum into outright apostasy is like the loss of a close family member.

And, so I can say, who cares that you are saddened too, but you know what - - I can't because I don't want any saddened.

My word, where is this anger coming from?

Forget AFF -- what I'm saddened at is the outbrust of emotions from people that should be reaching to all that are hurting even if they don't know it.

What I'm saddened about is some are making this more about the slide of this forum than souls that can be reached.

Why the outrage now? Just because a thread gets started on AMF to stir up you guys that's misleading because as stated before - - Chosenbyone was here over three years ago. You posted on that thread - - read some of your posts today when I bumped the thread.

If we had shut down CB1 his eternity could have been hell. You can stomp around all you want, but if one person is changed and saved because AFF or me or someone here has reached out to them, I'm glad for it.

I'm just amazed that as ministers there is such outrage. If you have a gay come to your church, do you throw him out? If you allow him to sit on your pew are you accepting his life style? Good grief - - think about it.

[scotty]

Homosexuality is a sin, a perversion, and an abomination.

Homosexuality will keep you from heaven.

You cannot be a Christian and be a homosexual.

Unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell.

You dont have a clue do you ? Who are you preaching too ?

[rgcraig]

Preachers are not called to tolerate sin.

They are called to preach the Word.

- You love your freedoms more than you love your God.

- You love your friends more than you love Truth.

- You love your opinion more than you love God's.

Maybe that's where you are stuggling - - who is tolerating sin?

[rgcraig]

Preachers are not called to tolerate sin.

They are called to preach the Word.

- You love your freedoms more than you love your God.

- You love your friends more than you love Truth.

- You love your opinion more than you love God's.

You is who? Me, AFF? I think you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[rgcraig]

Homosexuality is a sin, a perversion, and an abomination.

Homosexuality will keep you from heaven.

You cannot be a Christian and be a homosexual.

Unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell.

Amen.

So, where's your problem? I do NOT believe anyone here has said differently.

[Charnock]

Romans 1:18

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

"Holding the truth in unrighteousness is decisive of moral character. It is a state of total depravity, of total dishonesty in regard both to God and men. While the debt is admitted in words, and the obligation both to God and man in words is admitted, yet practically it is a denial of the obligation. The sinner virtually says--"I know I ought to obey God, but I will not. I know I ought to love my neighbor as myself, but I will not . I know I am indebted to God, but I will not pay him. I know I am indebted to man, but I care not for it--I will not pay him."

This, then, is making an open issue with God before the entire universe. It is a deliberate, known, practical, persistent rejection of his authority. Again, it is setting the worst possible example before God's subjects. Suppose a subject of any government to stand forth in the presence of all the subjects, and deliberately refuse to obey the laws; not merely [refuse] to obey some one law, but [refuse] to obey the laws in general and universally. Suppose the subject to admit the obligation, to admit the wisdom and justice, and equity, and necessity of the laws, but for unrighteous reasons to refuse to obey them; to take a course directly opposed to them; to persist in that course, and to hold fast his persistent resistance to the authority of the government--should not the wrath of the government be revealed against such a character as that?"

Charles Finney

[scotty]

Romans 1:18

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

"Holding the truth in unrighteousness is decisive of moral character. It is a state of total depravity, of total dishonesty in regard both to God and men. While the debt is admitted in words, and the obligation both to God and man in words is admitted, yet practically it is a denial of the obligation. The sinner virtually says--"I know I ought to obey God, but I will not. I know I ought to love my neighbor as myself, but I will not . I know I am indebted to God, but I will not pay him. I know I am indebted to man, but I care not for it--I will not pay him."

This, then, is making an open issue with God before the entire universe. It is a deliberate, known, practical, persistent rejection of his authority. Again, it is setting the worst possible example before God's subjects. Suppose a subject of any government to stand forth in the presence of all the subjects, and deliberately refuse to obey the laws; not merely [refuse] to obey some one law, but [refuse] to obey the laws in general and universally. Suppose the subject to admit the obligation, to admit the wisdom and justice, and equity, and necessity of the laws, but for unrighteous reasons to refuse to obey them; to take a course directly opposed to them; to persist in that course, and to hold fast his persistent resistance to the authority of the government--should not the wrath of the government be revealed against such a character as that?"

Charles Finney

Ok , point made. Scripture says when you have one like this you should kick the dust of the town(forum) from your sandels and move on.

Dont let the door hit ya brother.

[rgcraig]

Char, when you get your blood pressure down. Read this - - it was posted several months ago and reposted in the thread recently.

An introduction to AFF policy for newbies and refresher for others:


From the Admin of the Apostolic Friends Forum

As Christians, our response to the issue of homosexuality is twofold:

1. Homosexuality is one of many sins that bring destruction and pain to the life of the sinner. There can be no positive outcome of sin, so compassion for the sinner requires that we lovingly apprise them of their need for change. Withholding truth from the lost is not a loving or compassionate response to their state. Therefore the forum will not shy away from noting what is sin from a scriptural standpoint, providing that truth is shared in love.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2. The Christian response to a sinner should be the same, no matter what the sin. We should respond with a biblically based solution that illustrates clearly the sinful nature of any particular deed, and also clearly illustrates the compassionate response of Christ to sin. He offers forgiveness to the repentant, plain and simple, and new life in Him. It is not judgmental to acknowledge what is sin, and in fact it is destructive to turn a blind eye to sin. If the lost are not convinced that they are in a position of estrangement from God, they will never be able to come to a place of repentance and be a recipient of His mercy. Therefore, as Christians, both on this forum, and in our personal lives, we should seek to lead sinners to repentance, so they might find new life in Christ.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

As forum Admin, we will not allow the gay agenda to be pushed on this forum. Meaning, we will not allow a constant barrage of rhetoric designed to make those who adhere to biblical values and scriptural truths feel guilty or inferior. We will not allow a push for acceptance of the gay agenda and lifestyle, and call a rejection thereof a rejection of the individual. They are not one and the same, and should not be treated as such. A rejection of sin is not a rejection of the sinner.

We will not allow a defense of the gay agenda and lifestyle by more liberal leaning minds, or overt criticism toward those who don't practice a similar tolerance for sin.

There are numerous forums online where the gay agenda can be openly proclaimed, even within Christian ranks. There are numerous Christian groups (using the term loosely) who have decided to accept practicing homosexuals as brethren, and perhaps feel they are practicing the love of Christ in doing so. We feel they err, because the love of Christ involves freeing a soul from sin; not encouraging the soul to continue to wallow in the mire.

Therefore, while we allow debate and discussion on the AFF, and we encourage anyone to join who shares an interest in Apostolic topics and concerns, we will not allow an overt attack on biblical values and truths, and upon the character of those who live and preach the same.

Hopefully this will help clarify the forum's position on the matter, and frame future debates.

[Charnock]

And, so I can say, who cares that you are saddened too, but you know what - - I can't because I don't want any saddened.

My word, where is this anger coming from?

Forget AFF -- what I'm saddened at is the outbrust of emotions from people that should be reaching to all that are hurting even if they don't know it.

What I'm saddened about is some are making this more about the slide of this forum than souls that can be reached.

Why the outrage now? Just because a thread gets started on AMF to stir up you guys that's misleading because as stated before - - Chosenbyone was here over three years ago. You posted on that thread - - read some of your posts today when I bumped the thread.

If we had shut down CB1 his eternity could have been hell. You can stomp around all you want, but if one person is changed and saved because AFF or me or someone here has reached out to them, I'm glad for it.

I'm just amazed that as ministers there is such outrage. If you have a gay come to your church, do you throw him out? If you allow him to sit on your pew are you accepting his life style? Good grief - - think about it.

Baloney. No one has stirred me up, and I am not angry.

Please stop with the drama.:bigbaby

This is always the collective response of the apostates on AFF.

Demonize, marginalize and hypothesize.

You have an agenda, Renda. It's obvious. AFF is what you wanted it to be.

It stands for nothing but freedom of speech, and the notion that it exists to win souls is downright sickening.

How can you win a soul win you can't even discern what it takes to be saved?

[Charnock]

Ok , point made. Scripture says when you have one like this you should kick the dust of the town(forum) from your sandels and move on.

Dont let the door hit ya brother.

Char, when you get your blood pressure down. Read this - - it was posted several months ago and reposted in the thread recently.

Look at who has the rotten attitudes.

[Charnock]

Homosexuality is a selfish, depraved condition.

[MissBrattified]

Char, when you get your blood pressure down. Read this - - it was posted several months ago and reposted in the thread recently.

I posted the link to that for Charnock last night. He obviously ignored it.

I think that statement is pretty clear.

We've had gay members here before, back when there were a lot of conservative members as well. A couple of them were allowed to stay. I do remember one in particular who was quickly banned because he started spouting blatant support for his lifestyle. The point being, it's the behavior that matters. I didn't know that the AFF (or the FCF/NFCF for that matter) was supposed to ban people for being sinners.

That's news to me.

[Charnock]

"Christians" who tolerate homosexuality, without warning those involved of the eternal consequences attached to their behavior, are "holding the truth in unrighteousness."

[Charnock]

I posted the link to that for Charnock last night. He obviously ignored it.

I think that statement is pretty clear.

We've had gay members here before, back when there were a lot of conservative members as well. A couple of them were allowed to stay. I do remember one in particular who was quickly banned because he started spouting blatant support for his lifestyle. The point being, it's the behavior that matters. I didn't know that the AFF (or the FCF/NFCF for that matter) was supposed to ban people for being sinners.

That's news to me.

I'm not asking for anyone to be banned. I'm simply commenting on the weird, disgusting, and approving manner in which homosexuality is discussed on this forum.

[rgcraig]

Well, there's never been an agenda. I didn't start AFF - - it morphed from FCF. If there was ever an agenda, it was Jim Yohe's and I would say my feelings aligned with his.

I'm gone as an owner and admin here - - since I'm such a demonizing, marginalizing and hypothesizing person, maybe the ship can be turned more toward the center.

[MissBrattified]

"Christians" who tolerate homosexuality, without those involved of the eternal consequences attached to their behavior, are "holding the truth in unrighteousness."

I don't "tolerate" homosexuality, Charnock, by having a conversation with a homosexual on an internet forum. If that's all it takes for YOU to "tolerate" homosexuality, then your convictions work differently than mine. I'm not that easily swayed.

[rgcraig]

Look at who has the rotten attitudes.

LOL - - saying something about your blood pressure is a rotten attitude?

Wow.

[Charnock]

Well, there's never been an agenda. I didn't start AFF - - it morphed from FCF. If there was ever an agenda, it was Jim Yohe's and I would say my feelings aligned with his.

I'm gone as an owner and admin here - - since I'm such a demonizing, marginalizing and hypothesizing person, maybe the ship can be turned more toward the center.

I doubt it.

AFF is a church denomination in and of itself.

[rgcraig]

Homosexuality is a selfish, depraved condition.

Adultery is too - - go preach to some of your preachers.

[Charnock]

LOL - - saying something about your blood pressure is a rotten attitude?

Wow.

It is.

You are assigning thoughts and feelings to me which are 100% incorrect.

AFF has become so accustomed to ONE view on most things that any divergent view (especially if it's Bible-based) is anathema.

[MissBrattified]

I'm not asking for anyone to be banned. I'm simply commenting on the weird, disgusting, and approving manner in which homosexuality is discussed on this forum.

Well, then, why don't you make that CLEAR for all the former members who have been lurking on this thread - that YOU are not attacking or criticizing the new poster, Azzan, but RATHER the posters who don't like conservative posts?

At this point, it sounds like you (and others) are simply campaigning to have Azzan banned. If you have another goal in mind, perhaps you should clarify.

So you're fine with Azzan staying and posting?

[Charnock]

Adultery is too - - go preach to some of your preachers.

So, you want us all to live to the lowest common denominator? That's a horrible existence.

[rgcraig]

I posted the link to that for Charnock last night. He obviously ignored it.

I think that statement is pretty clear.

We've had gay members here before, back when there were a lot of conservative members as well. A couple of them were allowed to stay. I do remember one in particular who was quickly banned because he started spouting blatant support for his lifestyle. The point being, it's the behavior that matters. I didn't know that the AFF (or the FCF/NFCF for that matter) was supposed to ban people for being sinners.

That's news to me.

Well, if that's the case..................it might get mighty quiet around here.

[Cindy]

Jesus, help us. I was a sinner that did horrible things, so horrible in fact I couldn't believe that I could be forgiven. I spent years in torment because of that. But I was always drawn back to people of God. A pastor that would come by my house at lunch time, and she would share my little tuna and crackers, :) just checking on me you know? Of course I was embarrassed, because I KNEW I wasn't living right. But SHE NEVER condemned me, just told me she loved me, invited me to church. Would be years later at a gas station in a little town that I would meet once again a loving pastor and his wife. I was ready to repent, and oh how I longed for peace and safety. Spent many months in fear, because I had to be home with my kids at a certain time, so we would be safe you know? Had to quit going, but years later God placed His love on my husband's heart. Saved him and filled him with the Holy Ghost. Maybe some of you never sinned horrible sins, is that even possible? That my sin was more horrible than yours? Would some of you would have tried to help me? Or would you have just walked by and thought I was not worthy of God's forgiveness? Thankfully, Jesus STILL forgives sinners and does not reject us. We are all unworthy, but HE LOVES US ANYWAY.

[Charnock]

Well, then, why don't you make that CLEAR for all the former members who have been lurking on this thread - that YOU are not attacking or criticizing the new poster, Azzan, but RATHER the posters who don't like conservative posts?

At this point, it sounds like you (and others) are simply campaigning to have Azzan banned. If you have another goal in mind, perhaps you should clarify.

So you're fine with Azzan staying and posting?

I am simply voicing an opinion. It that allowed?

I have not attacked any person on this thread, including Azzan.

My issue is with the general attitude that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior.

[rgcraig]

So, you want us all to live to the lowest common denominator? That's a horrible existence.

No, I want you to snap out of your bubble.

You ignored my question to you earlier - - if a gay attends your church are you going to ask him to leave because his mere existence at your church means you approve of his lifestyle?

[Charnock]

If all you do is accept sinners, yet never teach them that God wants them to separate from their sin, you are doing the work of the enemy.

[rgcraig]

I am simply voicing an opinion. It that allowed?

I have not attacked any person on this thread, including Azzan.

My issue is with the general attitude that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior.

Charnock,

Please copy the posts here that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior. I must have missed those.

[Charnock]

No, I want you to snap out of your bubble.

You ignored my question to you earlier - - if a gay attends your church are you going to ask him to leave because his mere existence at your church means you approve of his lifestyle?

It's not my place. That would be up to my pastor.

So you do agree that AFF is a church?

[Charnock]

Charnock,

Please copy the posts here that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior. I must have missed those.

Why are you so bothered by my opinion?

What is it that you're really fighting against?

[MissBrattified]

I am simply voicing an opinion. It that allowed?

I have not attacked any person on this thread, including Azzan.

Your post to Renda (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=979117&postcount=177) most certainly qualifies as a personal attack.

My issue is with the general attitude that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior.

You have not seen a general attitude that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior. You can't quote posts that would prove that statement, because they don't exist. If you have seen them, report them. I'll happily moderate them, since that would be against AFF rules.

Do you not have a problem with being disingenuous?

[rgcraig]

If all you do is accept sinners, yet never teach them that God wants them to separate from their sin, you are doing the work of the enemy.

If all you do is not accept them how can we teach them that God wants them?

[rgcraig]

It's not my place. That would be up to my pastor.

So you do agree that AFF is a church?

Of course not. Why in the world would anyone think that?

If's an internet forum - - my word.

[Charnock]

Of course not. Why in the world would anyone think that?

If's an internet forum - - my word.

Then why did you just compare it to a church?

[rgcraig]

Why are you so bothered by my opinion?

What is it that you're really fighting against?

I'm not against your opinion. I agree with your opinion. I think homosexuality is a sin.

What I'm not getting is that you are saying there are posters here that say you can be gay and a Christian. I do not know that anyone is saying that.

[MissBrattified]

Say hi to your "Amen corner", Charnock. Have fun entertaining all your friends by showboating on this thread. :rolleyes2

[Charnock]

Your post to Renda (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=979117&postcount=177) most certainly qualifies as a personal attack.



You have not seen a general attitude that accepts homosexuality as a normal Christian behavior. You can't quote posts that would prove that statement, because they don't exist. If you have seen them, report them. I'll happily moderate them, since that would be against AFF rules.

Do you not have a problem with being disingenuous?

Well if you believe I have attacked Renda, you have every right to ban me.

I don't believe speaking the truth qualifies as an attack, but you have a right to do what you need to do.

The truth is, you are what you tolerate, and AFF seems to tolerate everything but absolutes.

[MissBrattified]

I'm not against your opinion. I agree with your opinion. I think homosexuality is a sin.

What I'm not getting is that you are saying there are posters here that say you can be gay and a Christian. I do not know that anyone is saying that.

You know the truth doesn't matter a hill of beans. Perception (and peer pressure) is everything.

[MissBrattified]

Well if you believe I have attacked Renda, you have every right to ban me.

I don't believe speaking the truth qualifies as an attack, but you have a right to do what you need to do.

The truth is, you are what you tolerate, and AFF seems to tolerate everything but absolutes.

Do you EVER put your money where your mouth is?

[Charnock]

Say hi to your "Amen corner", Charnock. Have fun entertaining all your friends by showboating on this thread. :rolleyes2

What in the world are you talking about?

I don't believe most people even know who "Charnock" is.

Good gravy, this psychic ability you and Renda seem to have is just odd.

[Charnock]

Do you EVER put your money where your mouth is?

I don't have any money, and if I did I wouldn't eat it.:bliss

[MissBrattified]

I don't have any money, and if I did I wouldn't eat it.:bliss

FINALLY!!!! The TRUTH comes out! Thanks for your confession.

[Charnock]

You know the truth doesn't matter a hill of beans. Perception (and peer pressure) is everything.

Peer pressure?

Ha!

What, are we back in junior high?

You gals are funny.

[rgcraig]

Then why did you just compare it to a church?

When did I compare it to a church?

When I asked if you'd welcome a gay person in your church?

That's a stretch. I'm talking about acceptance - - not church.

[Charnock]

When did I compare it to a church?

When I asked if you'd welcome a gay person in your church?

That's a stretch. I'm talking about acceptance - - not church.

Is AFF a church, or not?

If you don't think it is, why do you compare it to one?

[rgcraig]

What in the world are you talking about?

I don't believe most people even know who "Charnock" is.

Good gravy, this psychic ability you and Renda seem to have is just odd.

It's not psychic - - people talk to us and not just in our heads. LOL!

We are totally aware of the thread on AMF and that many of those are here reading this thread.

Are you a member of AMF?

[MissBrattified]

Peer pressure?

Ha!

What, are we back in junior high?

You gals are funny.

If you're not just posting for your (or someone else's) entertainment, then what on earth is behind your asinine, baseless accusations and pointless posts? You make statements that you can't (and won't) back up with facts, and you expect anyone to take you seriously?

The truth is (in case you're interested in that rare item):

1. No one has told Azzan that he (or she) is going to be saved while practicing homosexuality

2. No one has stated that they approve of homosexuality or said that it isn't a sin

Again, this conversation was started on a POLITICAL thread - it wasn't religious in nature. However, just to be CLEAR, our official statement regarding homosexuality was still posted as a reminder of where WE stand.

So why are you hysterically proclaiming things that aren't true about this forum and its admin? Are you just lying to yourself? Or are you trying to convince other readers?

[Charnock]

It's not psychic - - people talk to us and not just in our heads. LOL!

We are totally aware of the thread on AMF and that many of those are here reading this thread.

Are you a member of AMF?

Yes, I am.

Do you think I sent out an APB or something?

[rgcraig]

Is AFF a church, or not?

If you don't think it is, why do you compare it to one?

Funny, that you won't answer my question about you accepting a gay to attend your church.

You want to focus on making that "a comparison that AFF is a church".

Nope - AFF is NOT a church.

However, your opinion seems to be that you do not accept gays at all, so with that being your opinion and knowing you are a minister (pastor), I'm asking - -would you accept a gay attending your church? And, just because he attended your church, does that mean you accept his lifestyle?

Can you not answer that?

[Charnock]

If you're not just posting for your (or someone else's) entertainment, then what on earth is behind your asinine, baseless accusations and pointless posts? You make statements that you can't (and won't) back up with facts, and you expect anyone to take you seriously?

The truth is (in case you're interested in that rare item):

1. No one has told Azzan that he (or she) is going to be saved while practicing homosexuality

2. No one has stated that they approve of homosexuality or said that it isn't a sin

Again, this conversation was started on a POLITICAL thread - it wasn't religious in nature. However, just to be CLEAR, our official statement regarding homosexuality was still posted as a reminder of where WE stand.

So why are you hysterically proclaiming things that aren't true about this forum and its admin? Are you just lying to yourself? Or are you trying to convince other readers?

Thank you.

I'm through playing now. :)

[Charnock]

Funny, that you won't answer my question about you accepting a gay to attend your church.

You want to focus on making that "a comparison that AFF is a church".

Nope - AFF is NOT a church.

However, your opinion seems to be that you do not accept gays at all, so with that being your opinion and knowing you are a minister (pastor), I'm asking - -would you accept a gay attending your church? And, just because he attended your church, does that mean you accept his lifestyle?

Can you not answer that?

I am not a pastor, thus I cannot answer your question.

[Charnock]

Been real.

I think I just lost a friend. :(

I'm out.

Have fun.

[BeenThinkin]

Well if you believe I have attacked Renda, you have every right to ban me.

I don't believe speaking the truth qualifies as an attack, but you have a right to do what you need to do.

The truth is, you are what you tolerate, and AFF seems to tolerate everything but absolutes.


Charnock, I think AFF does a pretty good job of tolerating.... they tolerate you! And you are are an absolute ?????? You're attitude is pathetic. It would have been a great scene had you been at the well when Jesus "fellowshipped" with the woman caught in the act of adultery. You could have picked up stones and stoned her to death for it sure seems you are the perfect one! I seemed to remember that "he that judges is guilty of the same thing!" Are you gay?

I'd rather be around someone that is willing to admit their failures, (and I have communicated with Azzan asking him about Romans 1 and other scriptures, by PM ... "Oh that must be a horrible sin according to you!") than to be around a self-righteous condemning individual that in no way has shown the love of God.

If you would, go back to your post and show me where you have shown any charity in any measure. I don't see charity but a lot of hatefulness and venom! Of course you don't see yourself... but others on this post see what you are spewing out.

Would you at least say a prayer for Azzan. And by the way what does the name charnock mean?

Have a good day!

BT

[MissBrattified]

THIS is an example of a good, conservative post, in case anyone needs a pattern to follow. :rolleyes2

Questions asked and opinions stated without maligning the forum or slicing and dicing its members.

A question I have is why would this individual feel it was important to identify his/her sin? This is not a counceling forum or any place where one's sin's (prior or present) need to be aired.
If one is repented, it is under the blood and there it should remain. Why must certain groups always seem to be seeking an identity. We were all sinners but it is no ones buisness what sins that we are tempted with.
If they are Apostolic, they are no longer gay, if they are gay, they are not Apostolic.

Bowas,

The person revealed their status as a homosexual because it was relevant to a political thread regarding the "Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell" policy. I agree that people don't need to confess their sins, but if they do happen to confess, it's not usually a bannable offense.

I don't believe Azzan claimed to be Apostolic; I believe he said he was "formerly" Apostolic.

[rgcraig]

Yes, I am.

Do you think I sent out an APB or something?

No - - they were reading long before you came stomping around.

I received texts, and pm's about the thread asking if AFF has accepted their first openly gay poster.

I answered as well as I knew how - - no - - ChosenbyOne was here over three years ago. Many of you that are freaking out now responded on that thread. Because many on here reached out to CB1, he met them, repented, was baptized in Jesus' name and now has a different outcome for his life or after life. If that can happend again, then send 100 more to AFF.

Send 100 to your church. Send 100 adulters to your church. Send 100 liars to your church. Send 100 any type of sinners to your church.

THAT is where we should be happy. Ya know, the whole thing about even the angels rejoice over one soul.

Who am I to turn one type a sinner away and not all the others?

[rgcraig]

I am not a pastor, thus I cannot answer your question.

Well, I'm not an owner/admin so I shouldn't be held responsible for anything. What a cop out - Char.

Let me rephrase it so you can really give us your opinion. Before you resigned your church - would you accept a gay person in your congregation? If by accepting them, are you accepting homosexuality?

[Timmy]

Honestly, Renda, who cares if you're "saddened?"

Like that matters?

You seem to care more for freedom of speech than you do for souls.

And that saddens me.

The continued slide of this forum into outright apostasy is like the loss of a close family member.

:blink :ursofunny :sad :vomit :killinme :boxing :banghead :bliss :dunno

[rgcraig]

This thread and attitudes here still saddens me and I am allowed that feeling (sorry Char).

[Cindy]

One thing that makes me happy is, I know many Apostolic's that love souls, and want to see all saved. No matter what their sin may be.

[rgcraig]

Been real.

I think I just lost a friend. :(

I'm out.

Have fun.

If you are meaning me - - you haven't lost a friend. I love you in spite of yourself. :thumbsup

[rgcraig]

One thing that makes me happy is, I know many Apostolic's that love souls, and want to see all saved. No matter what their sin may be.

Amen, Cindy.

I have been hit with that more than ever lately.

[BeenThinkin]

Well I guess charnock had his say, impressed his ultra cons and now has tucked tail and run! Probably will spend the rest of the day bragging about how he told everyone on AFF how "the cow eat the cabbage!"

Charnock, you're a good example why I don't want to be referred to as "Apostolic!" And there are good Apostolic's too and I'm not referring to them....just sad to see one like you putting a bad shadow on the others.

Be proud of your "hard, unrelenting, condemning, judgmental" attitude! I don't think God is proud of it!

Been Thinkin

[rgcraig]

He had to leave - - didn't want to answer my question.

[Cindy]

Now y'all sometimes the truth hurts, and some don't know how to express it well. But, God loves us anyway. So you know what? I am just thankful that I don't have to depend on people instead of Him. Because let's face it, people are just sad and pitiful without God.

[nahkoe]

Azzan, can you confirm whether you are a man or a woman? I have never heard from a woman struggling with lesbianism.

You must be quite sheltered then....

[nahkoe]

I don't know Mary. Anyone feel like coming out of the closet?

Why not? Oh wait...I'd have to have been in the closet to come out of it. I've never made that much of a secret about my past here.

[nahkoe]

Wasn't it repentant adulterers Jesus was around, and liar who gave up lying, and thieves who asked for forgiveness. Jesus was accused of fraternizing with the malcontents of society, yet that wasn't what He was involved in. When Mary washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her long uncut hair, it was done through a repentant heart. Jesus was pure and blameless concerning His culture, and couldn't have been hanging out with homosexuals. If He had hung out with active homosexuals who were totally involved with their perversions He would of had more problems then He could handle from the religious of His time.

Does Jesus care about sinners? Of course He does, repentant ones.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

And the ever repentant Judas Iscariot. Can't forget him...

[Monterrey]

Carumba!!!!


I's been gone for 24 hrs and looks! All thees fighing!


Nothing like good old controvery to stir up the devil in all of us, eh!


WOW!

[Monterrey]

I came out of the closet today, my walk in closet!


Bwahahaha

[Praxeas]

Why mention his temptation at all? As I said, we all have our own temptations but we do not need to publish them. Perhaps I missed the other posts where other posters "came out" and mentioned their particular temptations. It is nobodys buisness what they may or may not be. This is not a counseling forum.
It just seems to me some always seem to want to put their "temptations" out in public which often seems to want to lead to legitamicy or acceptance sooner or later.
Would the defense of this person be the same if they was struggling with beastiality or with NAMBLA?
Societally, and even in churches, we are lowering our gaurd to the point some churches now sanction gay lifestyles. It did not happen overnight. These are just my thoughts anyway.
Still unsure why he felt the need to mention it. Any ideas?
It's a public board. People discuss issues that are relevant and the topic was the Military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

And BTW sin is sin and nobody is defending someone's sin. We are supposed to reach out to sinners not treat them like trash. Jesus reached out to sinners but now we got so called Apostolics saying we should have nothing to do with them until they repent? Repent without the church being involved? Well there is a novel idea

[Praxeas]

Honestly, Renda, who cares if you're "saddened?"

Like that matters?

You seem to care more for freedom of speech than you do for souls.

And that saddens me.

The continued slide of this forum into outright apostasy is like the loss of a close family member.
Asinine post of the year. She does not care for souls? No it's the isolationist Ultra Cons that don't care about souls. They build their little kingdoms and secret forums and say to each other "go get a room", then they come out of their rooms acting like they are Holier than everyone else yet spewing sexual innuendos,lies and hate for anyone that is not just like them

[rgcraig]

Asinine post of the year. She does not care for souls? No it's the isolationist Ultra Cons that don't care about souls. They build their little kingdoms and secret forums and say to each other "go get a room", then they come out of their rooms acting like they are Holier than everyone else yet spewing sexual innuendos,lies and hate for anyone that is not just like them

Surprised me for sure.

[notofworks]

WERE sinners, I know that is hard for you to deal with, but the name of the game is change through repentance.

Sorry, Jesus wasn't giving the right hand of fellowship or the kiss of greeting to any male prostitutes.

Yes, He died while we WERE yet sinners. Are you saying that while we were yet sinners we were in a state or repentance?

I think you've blown it this time, EB. You've let your hasty judgment get the better of you and you've messed up. I've never seen you do that before. I always disagree with you but I've never seen you completely miss a fact of scripture before.

This subject really gets the best of you, doesn't it?

[notofworks]

I logged back on this morning , and I am speechless going through this whole thread. I honestly don't know what to say or where to begin and not sure I can say what I want to say without getting banned.

Repugnant is the first thought that comes to mind. Thankful is the overwhelming feeling that is sweeping over me. Thankful that no one in my church or AFF friends list is anything like you. For eight months last year I left the church and lived a life of sin. During that time many in my church still fellowshipped with me, had me over for dinner, had lunch, met at Starbucks for coffee. Every meeting had no condemnation or judgment despite knowing where I was in my life. They displayed the love and friendship I had always known them for. Many here on this forum still fellowshipped with me on Facebook during that same time. Cindy, Debra, Margie and several others never went a day without posting in fellowship at least 2 or 3 times. They have all watched with support now as I have returned by the grace of God and brought my new wife with me. I can tell you without a doubt, were not for the fellowship of those people I would still be in the world of sin.

It is views such as yours that feeds the "broad brush" criticisms from the liberals here, and for that , I despise you in every way. After reading this thread I am torn between being saddened at how your hurting other conservatives such as myself and pondering if I am truly conservative anymore. I may have to take the moderate position if conservative is defined by you.

I truly hope you find the grace that Christ has intended for us all to have. I shudder at the thought of how many He has sent your way and been rejected by your self righteous theology. I am saddened for you and yet sickened by you at the same time. You are the last thing Apostolic should ever represent and I pray you dont do so much damage that we cant overcome your ignorance.



:thumbsup

[notofworks]

On the up-side, a welcome thread has gone 25 pages and showing no signs of slowing down. That has to be a record of some sort.

On the down-side? Wow. Don't know where to begin. It hurts. This isn't just cliche, it's literal, and I am literally nauseated by what I've read in the last 20 minutes catching up from when I was last on this morning.

Charnock, I feel intensely sad for you. I'm not angry at you, don't want to yell, or smart off and do my normal loud posts. I just feel intensely sad for you. I pity your present condition.

Here are some numbers from Barna:

In North America, Christ-confessing Christians have decreased one percent per year for the last 22 years. We're headed to the European dormancy condition of The Church.

In America, about 5% of high-schoolers are Christ-confessing Christians. FIVE PERCENT. Of those that are Christ-confessing Christians that attend college, 75% will walk away from their faith while there.

In short, we're losing. Badly. The late 50's Mayberry America where everyone believed and went to "preachin'" on Sunday is gone.

Why? People are sick of it. They're tired of an angry Christian culture that is SO completely wrapped up in its own bubble that it cannot possibly understand the plight of real people. We find it preferable to have a weekly church service where we "get in the presence of God", than to invest in broken lives with our love, effort, dinners, interaction, sweat, toil, and tears. 2010 Christianity has decided it will bumper-sticker people into heaven with threats of hell and damnation.

And it's not working. We're failing horribly and no one wants to admit there's a problem. The first step in any recovery program is always to admit one has a problem and the American church isn't anywhere close.

As long as our method of interjecting ourselves into the lives of anyone that we deem "lost", is to throw hell, repentance, and damnation at them, we will continue to lose.

This isn't just an Apostolic problem. The attitudes are no different in Baptist, Assemblies of God, or other denominations.

So many talk about "Revival" and when they verbalize it, they're thinking of bringing in "Lost souls." But the REAL revival needed in America is with The Church. The Church has become the sick that needs the physician.

[scotty]

On the up-side, a welcome thread has gone 25 pages and showing no signs of slowing down. That has to be a record of some sort.

On the down-side? Wow. Don't know where to begin. It hurts. This isn't just cliche, it's literal, and I am literally nauseated by what I've read in the last 20 minutes catching up from when I was last on this morning.

Charnock, I feel intensely sad for you. I'm not angry at you, don't want to yell, or smart off and do my normal loud posts. I just feel intensely sad for you. I pity your present condition.

Here are some numbers from Barna:

In North America, Christ-confessing Christians have decreased one percent per year for the last 22 years. We're headed to the European dormancy condition of The Church.

In America, about 5% of high-schoolers are Christ-confessing Christians. FIVE PERCENT. Of those that are Christ-confessing Christians that attend college, 75% will walk away from their faith while there.

In short, we're losing. Badly. The late 50's Mayberry America where everyone believed and went to "preachin'" on Sunday is gone.

Why? People are sick of it. They're tired of an angry Christian culture that is SO completely wrapped up in its own bubble that it cannot possibly understand the plight of real people. We find it preferable to have a weekly church service where we "get in the presence of God", than to invest in broken lives with our love, effort, dinners, interaction, sweat, toil, and tears. 2010 Christianity has decided it will bumper-sticker people into heaven with threats of hell and damnation.

And it's not working. We're failing horribly and no one wants to admit there's a problem. The first step in any recovery program is always to admit one has a problem and the American church isn't anywhere close.

As long as our method of interjecting ourselves into the lives of anyone that we deem "lost", is to throw hell, repentance, and damnation at them, we will continue to lose.

This isn't just an Apostolic problem. The attitudes are no different in Baptist, Assemblies of God, or other denominations.

So many talk about "Revival" and when they verbalize it, they're thinking of bringing in "Lost souls." But the REAL revival needed in America is with The Church. The Church has become the sick that needs the physician.

:thumbsup

[whoami]

Heard something interesting today, and it made me think of this thread.

My sister in law is a lesbian, and lives with her girlfriend. She has a serious medical problem (not AIDS) and has to go to a lot of doctor appointments. Her girlfriend works long hours to support them, and the rest of us work too so we've been worried about how she was going to get to her doctor appointments because she can't drive right now.

She called me and said that it's all taken care of, a little older lady from the local Baptist church is going to be taking her to her doctor appts. Apparently she stopped by to invite them to church and ended up chatting for awhile. When she invited my SIL to church, my SIL said "Well I'm a lesbian, and most churches would rather not have me in there so I'd rather not go." and the lady said "Well honey if we turned out all sinners the church building would be empty, the preacher couldn't even enter so don't worry about that. But if you don't feel comfortable coming I understand. Would you rather I leave or do you feel like talking for awhile?" They ended up talking awhile and my SIL told her about her doctors appointments and feeling bad about being a burden to her family. The lady said "You know, I'm retired and don't have anything to do but go around bugging people about coming to my church, what if I took you? I live right here, the doctor's right here, it would be no trouble and would get me out of the house." So the lady and her husband will be giving my SIL rides to the doctor's office.

I found this very encouraging. :)

[notofworks]

Heard something interesting today, and it made me think of this thread.

My sister in law is a lesbian, and lives with her girlfriend. She has a serious medical problem (not AIDS) and has to go to a lot of doctor appointments. Her girlfriend works long hours to support them, and the rest of us work too so we've been worried about how she was going to get to her doctor appointments because she can't drive right now.

She called me and said that it's all taken care of, a little older lady from the local Baptist church is going to be taking her to her doctor appts. Apparently she stopped by to invite them to church and ended up chatting for awhile. When she invited my SIL to church, my SIL said "Well I'm a lesbian, and most churches would rather not have me in there so I'd rather not go." and the lady said "Well honey if we turned out all sinners the church building would be empty, the preacher couldn't even enter so don't worry about that. But if you don't feel comfortable coming I understand. Would you rather I leave or do you feel like talking for awhile?" They ended up talking awhile and my SIL told her about her doctors appointments and feeling bad about being a burden to her family. The lady said "You know, I'm retired and don't have anything to do but go around bugging people about coming to my church, what if I took you? I live right here, the doctor's right here, it would be no trouble and would get me out of the house." So the lady and her husband will be giving my SIL rides to the doctor's office.

I found this very encouraging. :)


Ahh, I love it.

[Jack Shephard]

Heard something interesting today, and it made me think of this thread.

My sister in law is a lesbian, and lives with her girlfriend. She has a serious medical problem (not AIDS) and has to go to a lot of doctor appointments. Her girlfriend works long hours to support them, and the rest of us work too so we've been worried about how she was going to get to her doctor appointments because she can't drive right now.

She called me and said that it's all taken care of, a little older lady from the local Baptist church is going to be taking her to her doctor appts. Apparently she stopped by to invite them to church and ended up chatting for awhile. When she invited my SIL to church, my SIL said "Well I'm a lesbian, and most churches would rather not have me in there so I'd rather not go." and the lady said "Well honey if we turned out all sinners the church building would be empty, the preacher couldn't even enter so don't worry about that. But if you don't feel comfortable coming I understand. Would you rather I leave or do you feel like talking for awhile?" They ended up talking awhile and my SIL told her about her doctors appointments and feeling bad about being a burden to her family. The lady said "You know, I'm retired and don't have anything to do but go around bugging people about coming to my church, what if I took you? I live right here, the doctor's right here, it would be no trouble and would get me out of the house." So the lady and her husband will be giving my SIL rides to the doctor's office.

I found this very encouraging. :)

Ahh, I love it.


Agreed!

[rgcraig]

Whoami, some of those non-apostolic Christians put us HG filled Christians to shame. I'm quite sure the AMF crowd wouldn't dare do that. That would be accepting their lifestyle. Dear Jesus help us be your arms and legs!

[nahkoe]

Heard something interesting today, and it made me think of this thread.

My sister in law is a lesbian, and lives with her girlfriend. She has a serious medical problem (not AIDS) and has to go to a lot of doctor appointments. Her girlfriend works long hours to support them, and the rest of us work too so we've been worried about how she was going to get to her doctor appointments because she can't drive right now.

She called me and said that it's all taken care of, a little older lady from the local Baptist church is going to be taking her to her doctor appts. Apparently she stopped by to invite them to church and ended up chatting for awhile. When she invited my SIL to church, my SIL said "Well I'm a lesbian, and most churches would rather not have me in there so I'd rather not go." and the lady said "Well honey if we turned out all sinners the church building would be empty, the preacher couldn't even enter so don't worry about that. But if you don't feel comfortable coming I understand. Would you rather I leave or do you feel like talking for awhile?" They ended up talking awhile and my SIL told her about her doctors appointments and feeling bad about being a burden to her family. The lady said "You know, I'm retired and don't have anything to do but go around bugging people about coming to my church, what if I took you? I live right here, the doctor's right here, it would be no trouble and would get me out of the house." So the lady and her husband will be giving my SIL rides to the doctor's office.

I found this very encouraging. :)

This is sadly so rare. :( I'm glad that this little old lady is being the arms of Jesus for your sister.

[MissBrattified]

Been real.

I think I just lost a friend. :(

I'm out.

Have fun.

Nicely done, Char. Way to keep things compartmentalized. :rolleyes2