4given@Repentance If You're Still Goin 2 Hell?

[deacon blues]

How can the scriptures say we are forgiven of our sins at repentance if a repentant sinner is still going to hell? If a repentant sinner is still lost, then they aren't forgiven at repentance. If so, what's the point of repentance?

[Pressing-On]

That's a great question. When I look at the definition of "repent", it is saying, "to think differently, morally to feel compunction/having an awareness of guilt and to reconsider".

So, my question would be - isn't that the beginning of changing your thought pattern in order to become saved? Is the definition specially saying that you are forgiven at that point or is it saying you have become aware of your guilt in order to become saved?

I ask that because Acts 2:38 says, "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..."

I just appears that repentance gives us an awareness in order to obey.

[Austin]

Wow!! this thing doesn't stop. Great is the mystery of salvation that no one can rightly explain it! Austin1;4

[Pressing-On]

Wow!! this thing doesn't stop. Great is the mystery of salvation that no one can rightly explain it! Austin1;4

Have lots I got into when studying this subject. I have to get that in order to even make sense of it. LOL!

Interesting how Acts 5:31 says that He gives repentance and forgiveness of sins. And, Acts 26:20 says that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. Lots involved in repentance it seems.

[Austin]

You know what! if the Holy Ghost did not first intervene into the decision center of peoples minds most of them would not have anythng to repent of.
People think faith is believing something for the fact of the matter and in past tense. When in reality faith is given by God in the first place and it is the revelation of the fact. That is why it can't be doubted and that is also why it will work, Because you have the security, or confidence of the fact before you have the substance that you desired.

[deacon blues]

"If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9

[RandyWayne]

Don't you know the true salvation occurs when you finally look the part and write that first tithe check?

[pelathais]

Wow!! this thing doesn't stop. Great is the mystery of salvation that no one can rightly explain it! Austin1;4

Jesus saves.


Isaiah 53:11; Hosea 14:2; Matthew 20:28; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:22-24, Romans 4:24-25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9, Romans 5:18-19; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:4, Galatians 3:13; 1 Timothy 2:6; Titus 2:14, Titus 3:5; Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 9:28; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 3:18; 1 John 2:2, 1 John 3:5; 1 John 4:10; Revelation 1:5.

Our hypothetical "repentant sinner" isn't "saved" "because he repented". He isn't in a "state of awareness awaiting further cleansing in baptism which will ultimately save him."

Our hypothetical "repentant sinner" is "saved" only because the Savior has saved him. That is the purpose of a Savior; salvation.

[Sam]

Repentance is not enough according to some teaching.

Repentance brings forgiveness but the person is still filthy in his sins until they are washed away or remitted by water baptism.

If "born of water" means water baptism like the Roman Catholic Church taught for years and some OP's teach now, then repentance is not enough because the person who has repented is not a child of God until after water and Spirit baptism.

That just happens to be the theology of some.

I personally believe a person is justified/saved/born again and on the way to Heaven the instant he/she asks Jesus Christ into his/her life. I also believe that failure to be baptized in water and failure to speak with tongues does not negate that salvation. But, that's just the opinion of a greasy grace, soft on the message, easy believism, one-stepper Bapticostal Charismatic.

[mizpeh]

"If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9

Who was the epistle of 1 John written to?

[Sam]

Who was the epistle of 1 John written to?

you and me and many more.

[Sam]

you and me and many more.

to be OPPC (Oneness Pentecostal Politically Correct), 1 John was written to believers.

[Sam]

to be OPPC (Oneness Pentecostal Politically Correct), 1 John was written to believers.

To be OPPC (Oneness Pentecostal Politically Correct) we have to say that the New Testament is divided into 3 sections: Gospels, Acts, Epistles

The 4 Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John tell the story of Jesus --His life, death, resurrection, and ascension to Heaven BUT nobody got saved there and the "plan" of salvation is not mentioned -- in fact it's hidden. Don't, I repeat don't read the Gospels to find out how to be saved. (Even though Jesus told someone there, "Thy faith hath saved thee" (Luke 7:50; and even though the words "save" and "saved" occur 35-40 times; and even though Jesus assured the thief on the cross, "today shalt thou be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:4); and even though Jesus told Nicodemus that He and His disciples knew and had seen people who were born again (John 3:11), and even though the kingdom message began and the law and the prophets were until John the Baptist (that means Baptizer. He wasn't a Baptist. Baptists are going to hell faster than a ball bearing on a greased plank contrary to what one former UPC General Superintendent said).

Then we have the Epistles, written by Apostles to individuals and Churches, but nary a word in them on how to be saved. Noooooo --don't go to those epistles to find out how to be saved --it just Ain't there with a capital "A". Them there Epistles (which, are not the wives of the Apostles for you that have not had an Apostolic Pentecostal Bible School education) were written to the Church --to people already in the Church-- so they don't tell how to get into the Church. (Yeah, right, just like you'd never hear a salvation message in a midweek Bible Study).

Then there's the Book of Acts, written by a Gentile (some believe he was a Jew but we really don't know) to an individual named Theophilus to describe the spread of the Gospel from its beginning in Jerusalem into all the known world ending up with the Apostle Paul under arrest in Rome. This Book of Acts is the ONLY book in the entire Bible which shows people getting saved and the ONLY book in the entire Bible that tells us how to get saved. It's a good thing that Theophilus shared it with others, otherwise there would be no place in the Bible to find out how to be saved.

[Steve Epley]

Repentance alone is as useless as baptism alone. Neither saves without the other. Jesus NOT OP's said 'water & the Spirit' Jn.3:5. What shall we do? The ONLY man with the keys gave the answer Acts 2:38. The door of Heaven was opened by those keys. LOCKED without the keys.
You don't have to obey Acts 2:38 you can always go to Hell.

[Pressing-On]

Jesus saves.


Isaiah 53:11; Hosea 14:2; Matthew 20:28; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:22-24, Romans 4:24-25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9, Romans 5:18-19; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:4, Galatians 3:13; 1 Timothy 2:6; Titus 2:14, Titus 3:5; Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 9:28; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 3:18; 1 John 2:2, 1 John 3:5; 1 John 4:10; Revelation 1:5.

Our hypothetical "repentant sinner" isn't "saved" "because he repented". He isn't in a "state of awareness awaiting further cleansing in baptism which will ultimately save him."

Our hypothetical "repentant sinner" is "saved" only because the Savior has saved him. That is the purpose of a Savior; salvation.
Repentance: 3341 - metanoia - change of mind, the state of changing any or all of the elements composing one's life, attitude, thoughts and behaviours concerning the demands of God for right living; note that this state can refer to the foundational salvation event in Christ, or to on-going repentance in the Christian life.

We do know that "godly sorrow works repentance." II Cor 7:10

But there are some things involved that are interesting.

"Bring forth therefore fruits (deed, activity, produce of a person) meet (worthy, deserving) for repentance:.." Matthew 3:8; Luke 3:8; Acts 26:20

Oops and here is that dreaded "W" word - works.

"But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works (deed, activity, task, job, labour) meet (worthy,deserving) for repentance." Acts 26:20

John professes a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto (to or into) repentance." Matthew 3:11

"John did baptize in the wilderness and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 13:24; Acts 19:4; Acts 26:20

Luke 24:47 says that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name.

If the Gospels and Acts are equating "remission of sins" with baptism, then I have to say that it appears that repentance is something that God generates in order that we might change our mind, attitude, thoughts and behaviour in order to be saved.

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31

[Austin]

Don't you know the true salvation occurs when you finally look the part and write that first tithe check?

I really like your post! it reminds me of some churches I have been in; Example of a few, Holier than Thou.
Sister Mary can't sing in the choir because she has been maried twice, but she can put money in the offering plate and we will take it. She can help us with cleaning the church. Her husband can help us put a roof on the building. The sinner comes into the church or a member from a different church which they believe is going to hell, and puts money in the plate and they take it.
I really thought the spirit of the pharisees ended back in the time of Jesus but I guess some how they have figured out a way to travel through time and arrive in the 21st century.
You that know the truth keep up the good work. ( Im sure this will get a response) Im ready, bring it.

[Austin]

Two ministers met on a summer day at a restraunt along the road. One was a baptist and the other was a pentecostal. Both of them did not know each other only strangers meeting together. After having a long period of time fellowshipping with each other without any hinderance. The one pentecostal minister asked the other, How long have you been saved? The baptist replied, I've been saved for thirty years, and how about you brother, the pentecostal minister said well I have been saved on and off now for around fourty five years.
Romans 11;6 And if by grace, than is is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace. otherwise work is no more work.
Romans, 3;24,25,26,27,28.
24= justified freely(at no cost)(no wage) why? redemption in Christ.( redemption,"purchased, past tense by Christ,( done)
25 declare Christ righteousness, Not ours, his) and remission of sins( when were they remitted?) that are past, ( how) through the forbearance of God.
26, Declare "his" righteousness( why) that "he"( Jesus) might be "just" and the "justifier" of him( Me) that "believeth"( elizabethian " eth" means in past tense
27, Where is boasting then?( how are you compared to Jesus?) Boasting by the law of works? or by the law of Faith( Trust in what for salvation)
28, Therefore Paul we( apostles) conclude,( finalize) a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
So!! do we make void the law of commandments because we are saved?? Nay! rather we establish it. ( HOW) Through a changed nature given by the power of God. One that does not desire to sin. With that new nature and with the presents of the Holy Ghost to give us power we are complete in Him. I can't understand why people have to force themselves not to sin. Sin doesn't have power over you if you have really been changed spiritually. If someone who professes to be a christian wants to go out and get drunk and act like a sinner and are comfortable with that then mabe they need to get saved to begin with. I guess I thought faith is something that is past tense and to operate in it you have to confess a good confession of the fact that it is done, Just like Abraham of the Old Covenant.

[Coonskinner]

"If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9

This was written to the Church.

The doctrine of confession and forgiveness is often confused with repentance.

[mizpeh]

This was written to the Church.

The doctrine of confession and forgiveness is often confused with repentance.How do you know there is a difference?

[mizpeh]

Repentance alone is as useless as baptism alone. Neither saves without the other. Jesus NOT OP's said 'water & the Spirit' Jn.3:5. What shall we do? The ONLY man with the keys gave the answer Acts 2:38. The door of Heaven was opened by those keys. LOCKED without the keys.
You don't have to obey Acts 2:38 you can always go to Hell.If 1 John was written to sinners, it would sound more like the content of the preaching in the book of Acts, imo.

[Coonskinner]

How do you know there is a difference?

Simple.

Do a study on repentance, just from the Scripture alone.

You will find that it is far more than just simply confessing your sin.

Someone who has never been born again and doesn't even believe in God can confess their sins ubtil their tonsils fall out and nothing will happen.

John wrote that verse to saved people.

"If WE confess our sin..."

John wrote to "brethren" and "my little children."

In fact, repentace is something God grants.

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance and forgiveness are two very different words.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance is a reversal, a change of mind, a turning away from sin and unto the Lord.

That is a far more profound and all-encompassing process, and one that God must empower, than simply a born again child of God confessing a sin and receiving forgiveness.

[Pressing-On]

Good post, CS.

Repentance is far more encompassing and more involved than forgiveness and I think that Acts 19:4 and Mark 1:15 explain that well. We must have a change of mind and believe on Christ Jesus and the Gospel.

"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." (Acts 19:4)

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. (Mark 1:15)

And finally, Mark 16:16 says that we will be saved if we believe and are baptized and if we don't start with belief, we will be damned.

[mizpeh]

Simple.

Do a study on repentance, just from the Scripture alone.

You will find that it is far more than just simply confessing your sin.

Someone who has never been born again and doesn't even believe in God can confess their sins ubtil their tonsils fall out and nothing will happen.

John wrote that verse to saved people.

"If WE confess our sin..."

John wrote to "brethren" and "my little children."

In fact, repentace is something God grants.

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance and forgiveness are two very different words.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance is a reversal, a change of mind, a turning away from sin and unto the Lord.

That is a far more profound and all-encompassing process, and one that God must empower, than simply a born again child of God confessing a sin and receiving forgiveness. Confession is included in John's baptism of repentance. I'm not even equating repentance with forgiveness. If someone who is saved confesses their sins without a change of heart (repentance) isn't that the same as a sinner who confesses their sins without being truly repentant?

I'll do a study on repentance but I still think you're wrong.

[deacon blues]

Who was the epistle of 1 John written to?

Obviously he's writing to Christians. That doesn't change the fact that he's stating clearly that when we confess our sins God forgives us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

The OP dance around the Epistles by stating that any reference to salvation or forgiveness in them can't be considered because it was written to people who fulfilled A238 is simply horrible hermenuetics. First, you can't prove that everyone the Epistles were written to fulfilled A238. Its all speculative. Heck, you can't prove that everyone in Acts fulfilled A238. Second, do you only talk A238 to unbelievers only? I have been to plenty of meetings where A238 was repeated over and over to people who believed it and practiced it. You would think that if A238 was the "formula" for salvation it would get a few mentions in the Epistles, but alas it is nowhere to be found. Its not mentioned ONCE.

[Sam]

...I really thought the spirit of the pharisees ended back in the time of Jesus but I guess some how they have figured out a way to travel through time and arrive in the 21st century....


As long as we are human we'll be pharisees from time to time.

[TGBTG]

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15
4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
8Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
9And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

[deacon blues]

Yes, it was always curious to me that heaven would rejoice over a person still bound for hell.

[Scott Hutchinson]

When one truly repents,God forgives one of their sins. However after repentance we are to commanded to be baptized in Jesus Name and to receive the Holy Ghost.
However if a person has not been forgiven,they are not a candidate for baptism in Jesus Name,nor can a non forgiven person receive The Holy Ghost.

[pelathais]

Repentance alone is as useless as baptism alone. Neither saves without the other. Jesus NOT OP's said 'water & the Spirit' Jn.3:5. What shall we do? The ONLY man with the keys gave the answer Acts 2:38. The door of Heaven was opened by those keys. LOCKED without the keys.
You don't have to obey Acts 2:38 you can always go to Hell.

Jesus did say, "water and Spirit" when he told Nicodemus that he had to be "born again." Nicodemus questioned this when he asked how he could enter his mother's womb and be "born again."

Nicodemus had already been born one time. Jesus said he had to be born another time. There are Two Births under discussion here. The first birth and the second birth. The water and the Spirit. There is nothing in John 3 that would lead us to think Jesus was discussing water baptism. Your "Water & Spirit" doctrine conflates the Two Births under discussion in John 3. It throws out the first birth that Nicodemus had raised and conflates the Two Births together, thus rendering the term "born again" meaningless. This was a teaching that G.T. Haywood said God had "revealed" to him over a period of time beginning in about 1915 - 1916.

[james34]

The water in John 3 denotes man born of a woman,the spirit is the Holy Ghost new birth.

[pelathais]

Yes, it was always curious to me that heaven would rejoice over a person still bound for hell.

:thumbsup

[pelathais]

How do you know there is a difference?

Simple.

Do a study on repentance, just from the Scripture alone.

You will find that it is far more than just simply confessing your sin.

Someone who has never been born again and doesn't even believe in God can confess their sins ubtil their tonsils fall out and nothing will happen.

John wrote that verse to saved people.

"If WE confess our sin..."

John wrote to "brethren" and "my little children."

In fact, repentace is something God grants.

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance and forgiveness are two very different words.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance is a reversal, a change of mind, a turning away from sin and unto the Lord.

That is a far more profound and all-encompassing process, and one that God must empower, than simply a born again child of God confessing a sin and receiving forgiveness.
I agree with Coon here, except when he says "simply" in the last paragraph. It's still a pretty big deal, IMHO. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

"Repentance" is the theme in the letters to the Churches of Asia in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3. "Repent" has always been a cry directed toward the people of God as much as toward anyone else.

1 Kings 8:47; 2 Chronicles 7:14; Job 4:26; Ezekiel 14:6; Matthew 3:2 and Matthew 4:7.

That being said, Coon is right. Repentance is much more than confessing your sin. It involves forsaking and turning from sin, no matter whether it is a "saint" or "sinner" doing the repenting.

[Raven]

Jesus did say, "water and Spirit" when he told Nicodemus that he had to be "born again." Nicodemus questioned this when he asked how he could enter his mother's womb and be "born again."

Nicodemus had already been born one time. Jesus said he had to be born another time. There are Two Births under discussion here. The first birth and the second birth. The water and the Spirit. There is nothing in John 3 that would lead us to think Jesus was discussing water baptism. Your "Water & Spirit" doctrine conflates the Two Births under discussion in John 3. It throws out the first birth that Nicodemus had raised and conflates the Two Births together, thus rendering the term "born again" meaningless. This was a teaching that G.T. Haywood said God had "revealed" to him over a period of time beginning in about 1915 - 1916.

Well said my friend, well said! [ I used to be confused also as some others are. ]
Raven

[Sabby]

Repentance is not enough according to some teaching.

Repentance brings forgiveness but the person is still filthy in his sins until they are washed away or remitted by water baptism.

If "born of water" means water baptism like the Roman Catholic Church taught for years and some OP's teach now, then repentance is not enough because the person who has repented is not a child of God until after water and Spirit baptism.

That just happens to be the theology of some.

I personally believe a person is justified/saved/born again and on the way to Heaven the instant he/she asks Jesus Christ into his/her life. I also believe that failure to be baptized in water and failure to speak with tongues does not negate that salvation. But, that's just the opinion of a greasy grace, soft on the message, easy believism, one-stepper Bapticostal Charismatic.

:highfive:highfive:highfive

[Sabby]

Good post, CS.

Repentance is far more encompassing and more involved than forgiveness and I think that Acts 19:4 and Mark 1:15 explain that well. We must have a change of mind and believe on Christ Jesus and the Gospel.

"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people (certain DISCIPLES), that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." (Acts 19:4). They were disciples of the doctrine of a soon coming Messiah. This was the crux of the message that Paul illuminated to them. It was about making a choice.

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. (Mark 1:15)

And finally, Mark 16:16 says that we will be saved if we believe and are baptized and if we don't start with belief, we will be damned.

PO, this word repentance also comes with the connotation of "to reconsider". So what is it the apostles were exhorting their listeners (or letter recipients) to do?

Acts 19:4-Reconsider Jesus as the Messiah and repentance towards Him instead of John's baptism of repentance. One Greater than John has arrived.

Mark 16:15-Jesus is saying that the kingdom (invisible Kingdom of God) is NOW, in other words. In order to enter this kingdom, you must reconsider any ideas you may have about it and instead believe that I am the Messiah, the One Who was to come. I am the fulfilment of all prophecy. I am the good news for mankind. I am the I AM. Believe this. Reconsider what you have previously believed that I am Who I say I am.

BTW, there is a stream of belief that holds that John 3 is a synthetic parallelism. There is no denying that it is a valid viewpoint, since it is the ONLY NT scripture that mentions in (partial) context birth of "water' and "spirit".

[Sam]

The water in John 3 denotes man born of a woman,the spirit is the Holy Ghost new birth.

Here is how The Living Bible reads (including a marginal reading at verse 5) for John 3:1-21 note verse 5

1,2 After dark one night a Jewish religious leader named Nicodemus, a member of the sect of the Pharisees, came for an interview with Jesus."Sir," he said, "we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miracles are proof enough of this."
3 Jesus replied, "With all the earnestness I posses, I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never get into the Kingdom of God."
4 "Born again!" exclaimed Nicodemus. "What do you mean? How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?'
5 Jesus replied, "What I am telling you so earnestly is this: Physical birth is not enough. You must be born spiritually. 6 Men can only reproduce human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven; 7 so don't be surprised at my statement that you must be born again! 8 Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it will go next, so it is with the Spirit. We do not know on whom he will next bestow this life from heaven."
9 "What do you mean?" Nicodemus asked.
10,11 Jesus replied, "You, a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don't understand these things? I am telling you what I know and have seen --and yet you won't believe me. 12 But if you don't even believe me when I tell you about such things as these that happen here among men, how can you possibly believe if I tell you what is going on in heaven? 13 For only I, the Messiah, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.14 And as Moses in the wilderness lifted up the bronze image of a serpent on a pole, even so I must be lifted up upon a pole. 15 so that anyone who believes in me will have eternal life. 16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.
18 "There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don't trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 They hated the Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. 21 But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to.

[pelathais]

Here is how The Living Bible reads (including a marginal reading at verse 5) for John 3:1-21 note verse 5

1,2 After dark one night a Jewish religious leader named Nicodemus, a member of the sect of the Pharisees, came for an interview with Jesus."Sir," he said, "we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miracles are proof enough of this."
3 Jesus replied, "With all the earnestness I posses, I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never get into the Kingdom of God."
4 "Born again!" exclaimed Nicodemus. "What do you mean? How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?'
5 Jesus replied, "What I am telling you so earnestly is this: Physical birth is not enough. You must be born spiritually. 6 Men can only reproduce human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven; 7 so don't be surprised at my statement that you must be born again! 8 Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it will go next, so it is with the Spirit. We do not know on whom he will next bestow this life from heaven."
9 "What do you mean?" Nicodemus asked.
10,11 Jesus replied, "You, a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don't understand these things? I am telling you what I know and have seen --and yet you won't believe me. 12 But if you don't even believe me when I tell you about such things as these that happen here among men, how can you possibly believe if I tell you what is going on in heaven? 13 For only I, the Messiah, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.14 And as Moses in the wilderness lifted up the bronze image of a serpent on a pole, even so I must be lifted up upon a pole. 15 so that anyone who believes in me will have eternal life. 16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.
18 "There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don't trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 They hated the Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. 21 But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to.

Yes, thanks James34 and Sam. The rendering of this passage in King James English is clumsy by modern standards. Even the updates made in 1769 that form the basic KJV that we all read today are often confusing.

There are Two Births under discussion in John 3. A "first" or natural birth and a Spiritual or "Second" birth. So, when Jesus tells Nicodemus that he must experience BOTH births, He says, "You must be born of the water and the Spirit." (emphasis mine - because I think being born again is important).

[Pressing-On]

PO, this word repentance also comes with the connotation of "to reconsider". So what is it the apostles were exhorting their listeners (or letter recipients) to do?

Acts 19:4-Reconsider Jesus as the Messiah and repentance towards Him instead of John's baptism of repentance. One Greater than John has arrived.

Mark 16:15-Jesus is saying that the kingdom (invisible Kingdom of God) is NOW, in other words. In order to enter this kingdom, you must reconsider any ideas you may have about it and instead believe that I am the Messiah, the One Who was to come. I am the fulfilment of all prophecy. I am the good news for mankind. I am the I AM. Believe this. Reconsider what you have previously believed that I am Who I say I am.

BTW, there is a stream of belief that holds that John 3 is a synthetic parallelism. There is no denying that it is a valid viewpoint, since it is the ONLY NT scripture that mentions in (partial) context birth of "water' and "spirit".
Exactly, "to reconsider" is a big deal! :thumbsup

[Sam]

...BTW, there is a stream of belief that holds that John 3 is a synthetic parallelism. There is no denying that it is a valid viewpoint, since it is the ONLY NT scripture that mentions in (partial) context birth of "water' and "spirit".

I have heard it taught that "water" in 1 John 5:6 refers to Jesus' birth and "blood" refers to His death.

6 This is he that came by water and blood (birth and death), even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1 John was written to show that Jesus was both human and Deity. John shows that He is the Word/Logos in the very first few verses. John emphasizes the real flesh or humanness of Jesus and emphasizes His Deity. The passage shows that He came by water (was born as a human in real human flesh), and that He came by blood (died as a human in real flesh), and that the Spirit witnessed also to His humanity and deity by raising Him from the dead. A parallel passage would be Romans 1:3-4 where it says "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:"

He came by water i.e. He was born as a human
but not by water only but by water and blood because just His birth could not save --He had to die.
Then, the Spirit bore witness to His successful birth and death by raising Him from the dead.