We're losing it.

[Rudy]

Paul Washer on missions and the condition of the heart here in the U.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqfEymjW7co

[renee819]

So true!

And how can we come out of this Babylon?

[Jermyn Davidson]

HEY!

A fellow PAUL WASHER listener!
I really enjoy listening to him preach and teach.
My favorite sermon of his is the one where he is speaking at a youth conference of sorts. He sets the tone very early in his sermon to them.

[Sister Alvear]

I am weeping....

[ILG]

Okay, so I watched this video. The preacher says it was easy to live for God in Peru but it's hard in the US and then he says "We're losing it". So what exactly are we losing and why? I agree that the decadence of America compared to Peru is disgusting, but what exactly are those of us who live here supposed to feel and do about the message in this video? He says to come out of Babylon. What does that mean? Go live in Peru? Give $50.00 to a missionary? I ask this simply because this was a very emotional appeal but I am not sure to what end.

[Michael The Disciple]

There is a way to come out of Babylon. It is the same thing as to simply come out of the world. The same thing.

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Cor. 6:16-18

You come out by COMING IN!

By coming INTO the kingdom of God. Separating our lives to the WILL of God.

As one does this he is coming out of the "world". Out of "Babylon".

Who truly wants to come out?

The next verse says:

2 Cor. 7:1

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Give our lives to PERFECTING HOLINESS in the fear of God.

No one will be saved from the destruction of the world or "secret Babylon" unless they do this. This is the way.

[ILG]

There is a way to come out of Babylon. It is the same thing as to simply come out of the world. The same thing.

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Cor. 6:16-18

You come out by COMING IN!

By coming INTO the kingdom of God. Separating our lives to the WILL of God.

As one does this he is coming out of the "world". Out of "Babylon".

Who truly wants to come out?

The next verse says:

2 Cor. 7:1

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Give our lives to PERFECTING HOLINESS in the fear of God.

No one will be saved from the destruction of the world or "secret Babylon" unless they do this. This is the way.

But this message seems to be for those who are already IN the Kingdom of God. So, those who are in the Kingdom have nothing to worry about then, apparently? Or does it mean people have to do MORE and MORE and MORE in order to pay for the sin of living in America?

[Michael The Disciple]

But this message seems to be for those who are already IN the Kingdom of God. So, those who are in the Kingdom have nothing to worry about then, apparently? Or does it mean people have to do MORE and MORE and MORE in order to pay for the sin of living in America?

I mean holiness has been rejected en mass in America. It is considered grievous to be obedient to the commands of Christ. Its not that obedient believers have to do more and more.

Its that the standard for believers has been set SO LOW that any call to come to the true standard of obedience seems unreasonable nowadays.

Believers in Christ in general are not dwelling in the secret place of the most high.

Look at the kingdom of God as the place where Christ is KING. Where he has servants that do his will.

[ILG]

I mean holiness has been rejected en mass in America. It is considered grievous to be obedient to the commands of Christ. Its not that obedient believers have to do more and more.

Its that the standard for believers has been set SO LOW that any call to come to the true standard of obedience seems unreasonable nowadays.

Believers in Christ in general are not dwelling in the secret place of the most high.

Look at the kingdom of God as the place where Christ is KING. Where he has servants that do his will.

So what exactly is the "true standard of obedience" and how does a person know if they've reached it? And, are the people of Peru more holy?

[Charnock]

Okay, so I watched this video. The preacher says it was easy to live for God in Peru but it's hard in the US and then he says "We're losing it". So what exactly are we losing and why? I agree that the decadence of America compared to Peru is disgusting, but what exactly are those of us who live here supposed to feel and do about the message in this video? He says to come out of Babylon. What does that mean? Go live in Peru? Give $50.00 to a missionary? I ask this simply because this was a very emotional appeal but I am not sure to what end.

I agree, ILG.

I am sick up to my eyeballs of the emotional "Americans are fat, lazy, greedy slobs who don't give a $#%^ about missions" appeals.

Personally, Peru is probably more Christian than America. It is predominately Catholic and the government is aligned with Catholicism.

America, on the other hand, is godless. I wonder when Peru will send some missionaries over to evangelize?

Also, is Paul Washer Apostolic? If not, why are we celebrating anything he says?

[Michael The Disciple]

So what exactly is the "true standard of obedience" and how does a person know if they've reached it? And, are the people of Peru more holy?

The only standard:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Until we understand that we will never understand the kingdom of God. Its not about "America".

Wherever a Christian is they must come out of the world and into kingdom obedience. Come out "from" and come "into".

The true intimacy with God that the believer looks for is found HERE.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5

Want PERFECT LOVE with God? The apostle tells us how to have it!

[ILG]

The only standard:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Until we understand that we will never understand the kingdom of God. Its not about "America".

Wherever a Christian is they must come out of the world and into kingdom obedience. Come out "from" and come "into".

The true intimacy with God that the believer looks for is found HERE.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5

Want PERFECT LOVE with God? The apostle tells us how to have it!

Okay, so you, as well as the preacher in the video, leave things very vague. There is some sort of standard to reach, but no one will ever know if they've reached it.

[KeptByTheWord]

Okay, so you, as well as the preacher in the video, leave things very vague. There is some sort of standard to reach, but no one will ever know if they've reached it.

Yes. Exactly. No one REALLY knows for sure exactly. We all hope we know. We can have faith we know. But... regardless of who it is that is so sure of what they know... we are all really in the same boat, and not one of us knows FOR SURE... until that day that we all stand before judgment. Then all of us will know. Not until then.

So, until then... we must each work out our own salvation, with faith, fear and trembling...

[MarieA27]

If you are truly honest with your soul, and you have no known sin in your life, and you're living righteously, doing all that you know to do that is right, obeying all that you know to obey honestly, how can you not be sure? You just have to judge yourself correctly, like the word says, judge yourself, and you will not be judged. If you judged yourself correctly and honestly by the word in this life, you'll know. There shouldn't be any doubt, or second guessing. When Paul was heading to the grave, he knew that he was going to go to heaven after he passed, and he said that all who love the Lord's appearing would know too... (paraphrasing)

[Rudy]

Let's not forget we are made righteous because of what Christ has done.

[Michael The Disciple]

If you are truly honest with your soul, and you have no known sin in your life, and you're living righteously, doing all that you know to do that is right, obeying all that you know to obey honestly, how can you not be sure? You just have to judge yourself correctly, like the word says, judge yourself, and you will not be judged. If you judged yourself correctly and honestly by the word in this life, you'll know. There shouldn't be any doubt, or second guessing. When Paul was heading to the grave, he knew that he was going to go to heaven after he passed, and he said that all who love the Lord's appearing would know too... (paraphrasing)

So sound. So easy to understand.

[Michael The Disciple]

Let's not forget we are made righteous because of what Christ has done.

Yes I think every Christian knows that. What we have forgotten is that only those who actually DO RIGHTEOUSNESS are righteous before God.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7

We are supposed to be righteous EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.

That just means we are supposed to be righteous even as Jesus is righteous.

THIS is the real problem among believers. They are not being taught TO BE LIKE JESUS!

[Michael The Disciple]

Okay, so you, as well as the preacher in the video, leave things very vague. There is some sort of standard to reach, but no one will ever know if they've reached it.

OK I actually did watch the video. However I am in this thread because it was being asked how to come out of Babylon or the world.

My answer is very clear. The way is to separate our lives to the commandments of Christ. Let his words direct all that we do. That is not vague. I cant tell you everything he requires. He requires many things. Study to show yourself approved to God a workman that needs not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. Our lives are to be transformed to be like him.

If one is serious about kingdom living here is where it starts.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The great commission.

Separate your life unto him. That is not vague. Just learn his will and then walk in it.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes. Exactly. No one REALLY knows for sure exactly. We all hope we know. We can have faith we know. But... regardless of who it is that is so sure of what they know... we are all really in the same boat, and not one of us knows FOR SURE... until that day that we all stand before judgment. Then all of us will know. Not until then.

So, until then... we must each work out our own salvation, with faith, fear and trembling...

John says we can have confidence in the day of judgment if one thing is true in us.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

If we are like Jesus we can be bold in the day of judgment. If we are not like him we will be very afraid.

[Esaias]

John says we can have confidence in the day of judgment if one thing is true in us.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

If we are like Jesus we can be bold in the day of judgment. If we are not like him we will be very afraid.

:thumbsup

[Lafon]

More than 2,500 years ago a prophet of God named Zechariah was given visions which portrayed the spiritual condition of the society of mankind inhabiting the earth in the last days. These visions were described through various symbols, as noted in Zechariah Chapter Six wherein various colored horses (which represented spirits emanating from the throne of God in the invisible heavens) being dispatched into various regions of the earth. To properly comprehend the spiritual condition of the peoples residing in the northern hemisphere of the earth, I think one must consider that which we're told about those horses (spirits) that would be sent into this region:

"Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country." (Zechariah 6:8, KJV)

Ever wonder why missionaries who deliver the gospel in the southern regions of the world report such greater success in their efforts to the inhabitants there to be saved than do those who preach the gospel in the northern hemisphere? Could it be because those who live in the "south country," a region of the world we commonly refer to as the "third world" nations, are more receptive to the gospel message than we who reside in the more prosperous "north country"? Just saying.....

A "One God Apostolic Pentecostal" preacher delivering the good news of the gospel in any of the 3rd World nations, generally report converts numbering in the hundreds or even thousands. Yet, when that same preacher delivers that same message to the peoples living in the "north country" are often hard pressed to realize only a "handful." Why the difference? Could it be because the peoples of the "north country" (where the Spirit has been quieted by a more abundant prosperity) think of themselves as being self-sufficient, and who are more highly educated, believe that they do not need God? Just saying.....

[Rudy]

Interesting Lafon.

[Esaias]

More than 2,500 years ago a prophet of God named Zechariah was given visions which portrayed the spiritual condition of the society of mankind inhabiting the earth in the last days. These visions were described through various symbols, as noted in Zechariah Chapter Six wherein various colored horses (which represented spirits emanating from the throne of God in the invisible heavens) being dispatched into various regions of the earth. To properly comprehend the spiritual condition of the peoples residing in the northern hemisphere of the earth, I think one must consider that which we're told about those horses (spirits) that would be sent into this region:

"Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country." (Zechariah 6:8, KJV)

Ever wonder why missionaries who deliver the gospel in the southern regions of the world report such greater success in their efforts to the inhabitants there to be saved than do those who preach the gospel in the northern hemisphere? Could it be because those who live in the "south country," a region of the world we commonly refer to as the "third world" nations, are more receptive to the gospel message than we who reside in the more prosperous "north country"? Just saying.....

A "One God Apostolic Pentecostal" preacher delivering the good news of the gospel in any of the 3rd World nations, generally report converts numbering in the hundreds or even thousands. Yet, when that same preacher delivers that same message to the peoples living in the "north country" are often hard pressed to realize only a "handful." Why the difference? Could it be because the peoples of the "north country" (where the Spirit has been quieted by a more abundant prosperity) think of themselves as being self-sufficient, and who are more highly educated, believe that they do not need God? Just saying.....

Affluence and prosperity generally lead to a hardening of people's hearts against the gospel. At least that's what it seems like.

Also, the third world societies are not as inundated with 1)non-stop mass media programming resulting in near-comatose mental states being the norm in society, and 2)utterly failed 'public education' systems designed to destroy what culture and society is left.

[ILG]

Affluence and prosperity generally lead to a hardening of people's hearts against the gospel. At least that's what it seems like.

Also, the third world societies are not as inundated with 1)non-stop mass media programming resulting in near-comatose mental states being the norm in society, and 2)utterly failed 'public education' systems designed to destroy what culture and society is left.

I don't disagree with that. But if this is what the preacher was talking about, maybe he should have spelled it out a bit. "We're losing it. Come out of Babylon". I had no idea what he was trying to say.

[thephnxman]

"...how to come out of Babylon (the Confusion)...?

I beseech you, brethren, by the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you ALL speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you ALL be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

The salvation of the whole world has been enclosed in one NAME, Jesus: For there is none other NAME under heaven, given among men., whereby we must be saved." It is NOT the name of your church, your denomination, or your religion; nor is it found in the name of you apostle, prophet, or any spiritual leader. We are to be washed by the blood of God's son, in repentance, and we are then offered the Promise of salvation: He that believes AND is baptized SHALL BE saved...; then, "Whosoever calls upon the NAME of the Lord SHALL BE saved...; again: "...baptizing them in the NAME of the Jesus Christ for ther remission of sins and you SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit; for the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children...".
Our sins are remitted by the blood of "...the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world...", but the blood is applied in the NAME of the Lord!
If you believe the above declarations, you do well; if you do not, you remain in your confusion...in Babylon!

[Esaias]

"...how to come out of Babylon (the Confusion)...?

I beseech you, brethren, by the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you ALL speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you ALL be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

The salvation of the whole world has been enclosed in one NAME, Jesus: For there is none other NAME under heaven, given among men., whereby we must be saved." It is NOT the name of your church, your denomination, or your religion; nor is it found in the name of you apostle, prophet, or any spiritual leader. We are to be washed by the blood of God's son, in repentance, and we are then offered the Promise of salvation: He that believes AND is baptized SHALL BE saved...; then, "Whosoever calls upon the NAME of the Lord SHALL BE saved...; again: "...baptizing them in the NAME of the Jesus Christ for ther remission of sins and you SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit; for the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children...".
Our sins are remitted by the blood of "...the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world...", but the blood is applied in the NAME of the Lord!
If you believe the above declarations, you do well; if you do not, you remain in your confusion...in Babylon!

The problem is, there is "more to the story".

Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

"Easy believe-ism" isn't limited to modern antinomian so-called "evangelicals". It affects Pentecostals as well. The idea that "gettin folks saved" is the key thing, with everything else being of secondary (or even no) importance, is one of the main reasons everything is the way it is. Especially when the truth is that "getting saved" is NOT about undergoing whatever the preferred initiation ritual is (whether it's "ABC repeat after me" or whether it's "Be baptized in xyz manner" or any other rite). Getting saved is about this:

Matthew 1:21 KJV
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

What are sins?

1 John 3:4 KJV
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Next verses describe "being saved":

1 John 3:5-10 KJV
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

So, coming out of Babylon is more than undergoing the preferred initiation rituals of a religious movement. It involves REAL ACTUAL CONVERSION FROM BEING A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW TO BEING AN OBEDIENT STUDENT OF JESUS CHRIST and THEREFORE a REGENERATED CHILD OF GOD WHO ACTUALLY PRACTICES WHAT GOD'S HOLY LAW PRESCRIBES.

(Not saying you don't know that, just pointing it out to the readers who may have been brainwashed by Babylon's religious system of modern-day pseudo-christianity.)