Apostolics losing their identity?

[Esaias]

Found a PDF, a study of early apostolic hymnody. The conclusions reached by the author were striking:

"APOSTOLIC WORSHIP TODAY: IMPLICATIONS FOR ABANDONING AN APOSTOLIC HYMNODY The collective identity of Apostolic Pentecostals discussed in this study was predicated on their shared revelation of Jesus Christ. This shared revelation led to doctrinal claims and performance rituals that classified the movement as distinctly other. The first generation of Apostolic Pentecostals, like Azusa revivalists before them, wore their otherness as a badge of honor. Undoubtedly this community believed their otherness identified them as a people of the Name, endowed with the power of Jesus Christ, and commissioned to preach the full “apostolic gospel.” Today, however, the PAW is seemingly more lax about being distinctly other. While Apostolic doctrine and performance rituals remain, the hymnody of the first generation has long passed away.56 According to PAW bishop, Leonard Scott, attempts to revise standards like ‘Holy, Holy, Holy,’57 most of what is sung in PAW worship services is doctrinally generic. Furthermore, he concedes that although what is being sung has not moved away from exalting the deity of Jesus Christ, there is a noticeable shift towards songs whose lyrics stress unity within the entire Body of Christ and the simple [non-divisive] message of Christ’s death, burial, resurrection, and second coming.58 Bishop Scott’s observations spark a series of questions relating to continuity and identity: If a faith community significantly amends its musical repertoire to exclude its shared God-narrative how is faith being preserved, perpetuated, and reinforced? What songs have replaced the older Apostolic hymns? Are these new songs in sync with the apostolic gospel, or are they challenging it to near extinction? Is it fair to infer that the noticeable absence of an Apostolic musical catalogue means that popular agreement with Apostolic doctrine is waning? Even though the above questions are rhetorical, they convey the seriousness of one generation’s failure to successfully transfer to the next those resources required to develop a strong sense of collective identity. Moreover, while the emphasis on Christian unity is promising, it is also threatening to the life and longevity of the PAW as an Apostolic Pentecostal organization. Without a solid body of Apostolic songs to preserve “the language with which [the PAW] worships,”59 one can only presume that the current generation has lost--for better or for worse-both its sense of religious ancestral connectivity60 and collective otherness."

Original can be found by going here: https://journal.twu.ca/index.php/CJPC/article/view/73

[Michael The Disciple]

Well yes I get it. But can they make some new Apostolic songs.....that do preserve the doctrine but nonetheless take us past the early 20th century hymns?

[houston]

There was an apostolic hymnody?

[CC1]

There was an apostolic hymnody?

Yup. News to me also. From what I recall early Apostolics shared the vast majority of their hymnody with other Christian groups. There were a few songs clearly Oneness in lyrical content but certainly those were not the only songs sung.

[Esaias]

Of course apostolic hymnody shared much in common with every body else. But there were numerous distinctly oneness pentecostal hymns and songs written in the early days. Those songs are being slowly but surely dropped, and (according to the article) no new distinctively apostolic hymnody has been developed - at least in the PAW, the subject of the study.

[CC1]

Of course apostolic hymnody shared much in common with every body else. But there were numerous distinctly oneness pentecostal hymns and songs written in the early days. Those songs are being slowly but surely dropped, and (according to the article) no new distinctively apostolic hymnody has been developed - at least in the PAW, the subject of the study.

Haney Jr. is changing all of that with his modern classic "I'm a Pentecostal":icecream

[Esaias]

lol

[houston]

Haney Jr. is changing all of that with his modern classic "I'm a Pentecostal":icecream

Haha. I was thinking the same thing.

[Jermyn Davidson]

"One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God,
baptized in Jesus Name."

--song I haven't heard since childhood

In fact, growing up in my Dad's church, sometimes people made up their own songs and taught it to the church during, "Testimony Service".

[Steve Epley]

"One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God,
baptized in Jesus Name."

--song I haven't heard since childhood

In fact, growing up in my Dad's church, sometimes people made up their own songs and taught it to the church during, "Testimony Service".

Still sing it here.

[Esaias]

Still sing it here.

Same here. ;)

[Praxeas]

There was an apostolic hymnody?
Luke a parody but in song format...... :huh

[StillStanding]

Our culture is trending from old hymnals to karaoke screen style. Singing is one way to ingrain the doctrinal creed in the church. I grew up sing "It's All in Him" and others oneness songs out of the "Pentecostal Praises" hymn book. Are there oneness doctrinal songs being written in contemporary form these days that can be transformed onto the screen?

[Garbonzo]

"One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God,
baptized in Jesus Name."

Still sing it here.
Same here. ;)
We sing it every baptismal service as the person leaves the water.

[Garbonzo]

Our culture is trending from old hymnals to karaoke screen style. Singing is one way to ingrain the doctrinal creed in the church. I grew up sing "It's All in Him" and others oneness songs out of the "Pentecostal Praises" hymn book. Are there oneness doctrinal songs being written in contemporary form these days that can be transformed onto the screen?

A list of oneness doctrinal songs would be great. Is there one already on the forum somewhere?

[kclee4jc]

How many Apostolic churches are utilizing songs written by their own congregants. I have written a few songs that we implement into our worship services at times. We still sing out of the hymnal too! I love the old songs. I like modern music that is Biblically based as well. There is nothing more special to me than Apostolic Doctrine in a song!

[kclee4jc]

Verses to one of the songs we do

1.
You are high and lifted up
Far beyond the Heavens
And every eye shall see
They shall see your Kingdom come
You are Lord of all Creation
Now in flesh appearing
And by your blood and by your Name
You have made us your own

2.
A great gulf was fixed between us
That could not be bridged
Only by a sinless sacrifice
Could we ever truly live
So the God who knew no corruption
The Righteous became sin
Partaking of His own Judgment
So that He a Bride could win

[barry72]

Do you think a mute person could baptize an individual?

If I get baptized for the wrong reasons, did I still complete the salvation process if I receive the Holy Ghost?

If I fake speak in tongues and get baptized, obey holiness standards, will my brothers and sisters know he difference?

[Esaias]

Do you think a mute person could baptize an individual?

If I get baptized for the wrong reasons, did I still complete the salvation process if I receive the Holy Ghost?

If I fake speak in tongues and get baptized, obey holiness standards, will my brothers and sisters know he difference?

1. Interesting question! Not sure, but the apostles were told to both preach and baptize...

2. I believe one must be baptized "for the remission of sins", otherwise you just got wet and did not get BAPTISED.

3. You can fool people but not God.

[Esaias]

Verses to one of the songs we do

1.
You are high and lifted up
Far beyond the Heavens
And every eye shall see
They shall see your Kingdom come
You are Lord of all Creation
Now in flesh appearing
And by your blood and by your Name
You have made us your own

2.
A great gulf was fixed between us
That could not be bridged
Only by a sinless sacrifice
Could we ever truly live
So the God who knew no corruption
The Righteous became sin
Partaking of His own Judgment
So that He a Bride could win

That's really good. I'd love to hear the melody... hint hint...

[Esaias]

How many Apostolic churches are utilizing songs written by their own congregants. I have written a few songs that we implement into our worship services at times. We still sing out of the hymnal too! I love the old songs. I like modern music that is Biblically based as well. There is nothing more special to me than Apostolic Doctrine in a song!

We do! We also come up with many of the melodies we use for psalms and older hymns whose melodies are either lost, unknown, or never established.

[Sean]

It would be kinda tough to have a mute call out the name of Jesus during water baptism. Not sure if that is a good idea, but it may be okay.

[houston]

Our culture is trending from old hymnals to karaoke screen style. Singing is one way to ingrain the doctrinal creed in the church. I grew up sing "It's All in Him" and others oneness songs out of the "Pentecostal Praises" hymn book. Are there oneness doctrinal songs being written in contemporary form these days that can be transformed onto the screen?

"It's All In Him" was written by a 3 god Trinitarian

[Esaias]

"It's All In Him" was written by a 3 god Trinitarian

George Farrow, one of the early PAW members, and author of the hymn "All in Him", was a trinitarian?

I'd like to see some documentation on that.

[kclee4jc]

That's really good. I'd love to hear the melody... hint hint...

I'll work on that.. lol

[Sister Alvear]

We sing it in Brazil in Portuguese!

[deacon blues]

"One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God.
One, one, one,
One Way to God,
baptized in Jesus Name."

--song I haven't heard since childhood

In fact, growing up in my Dad's church, sometimes people made up their own songs and taught it to the church during, "Testimony Service".

Actually I think Jesus said "I AM the way..." I don't think the Bible says that the one way to God was baptism in Jesus Name.

A lot of the distinctive "hymns" were bad theologically. This one is a good example of that.

[Esaias]

Actually I think Jesus said "I AM the way..." I don't think the Bible says that the one way to God was baptism in Jesus Name.

A lot of the distinctive "hymns" were bad theologically. This one is a good example of that.

So, is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ just one of many ways to God? Or is it simply not a way to God at all? Is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ optional? Not necessary at all? A false and misleading thing to do to begin with? The wrong thing to do?

[houston]

Actually I think Jesus said "I AM the way..." I don't think the Bible says that the one way to God was baptism in Jesus Name.

A lot of the distinctive "hymns" were bad theologically. This one is a good example of that.

:happydance

[StillStanding]

When I was a child, I introduced the song, "One, One, One" at a neighborhood vacation bible school. I didn't realize it was a doctrinal song, and the lady in charge cut me off quickly! ha!

She tried to explain to me that the song was false. The one way to God was thru Jesus Christ, not baptism. I didn't understand what she meant at the time! :foottap

[houston]

I hope you understand now.

[StillStanding]

I hope you understand now.

I do! :happydance

[Esaias]

When I was a child, I introduced the song, "One, One, One" at a neighborhood vacation bible school. I didn't realize it was a doctrinal song, and the lady in charge cut me off quickly! ha!

She tried to explain to me that the song was false. The one way to God was thru Jesus Christ, not baptism. I didn't understand what she meant at the time! :foottap

Right, so one can come to God through Jesus Christ without being baptized in Jesus name, right?

[Originalist]

Haney Jr. is changing all of that with his modern classic "I'm a Pentecostal":icecream

That songs makes me nauseous.

[mfblume]

That songs makes me nauseous.

The lady singer could be a little more feminine.

[houston]

The lady singer could be a little more feminine.
But she wouldn't drive her point home...

[PastorStarcher]

In our struggle for acceptance some of lost their identity. I don't need a crowd to tell me who I am or who I am not. But I certainly need to know for myself. The songs that well out of the soul speak directly to who we are and what we believe.