PDA

View Full Version : UPCI was so strict it was almost Amish: Kings of Leon


Pages : 1 [2]

pelathais
10-05-2007, 03:39 AM
You really REALLY don't know what you are talking about. Christian music as a genre HAS been around even before I started in the UPC just over 20 years ago. You can change the subject from there being Christian music to it "booming", which is a subjective issue anyways, but the fact is Christian music has been around for a long long long MUCH LONGER time than 10 years lol
I agree with you here, but I think RC was perhaps guilty only of trying to nuance what he meant by CCM too much.

But getting back to the KoL: others said that they were "mocking God." You offered Galatians 6:6-9 as support for that; to which I responded:


... here we find the principle of sowing and reaping. However, by "sowing to the flesh" (and I don't recommend doing so) one isn't "mocking God." To try and say that there are no consequences for doing such, that may be mocking God. But the "Kings of Leon" are clearly quoted at the end as saying, "We were basically corrupted by the Strokes. Then they stopped drinking, so the joke's on us."

It's a bit off handed, granted, but there does seem to be a realization that they have some "growing up" to do. While not endorsing the course they have chosen, I think that they do show a hint of promise with that last statement. And in doing so, God is not mocked, IMHO.

I respect you and was wondering about your response (and if you even were able to see the original post). My understanding here is that Paul is saying, "God cannot be mocked..." The KoL (and everybody else in humanity for that matter!) may by their actions attempt to mock God, but God Himself simply cannot be mocked; and so, "the joke's on us" (all of us!). Therefore the heavy condemnation others offered is really unwarranted, IMO. These kids themselves seem to be realizing the scope of what they're dealing with. At least that is my hope, because some really beautiful music might come from that.

Off topic: There seems to be some lag on the board during the evening rush. Maybe it's just me as I tend to lag at about the same time of day.

MissBrattified
10-05-2007, 06:40 AM
ok, to clarify, again...

Christian music as an actual alternative to popular music didn't exist until the mid-1990s...

You are completely incorrect. Remember: What was "popular music" in 1935 is completely different from what is popular music now. There has almost ALWAYS been a Christian "version" of whatever style of music was "popular" at the time.

Educate thyself.

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 06:45 AM
I agree with you here, but I think RC was perhaps guilty only of trying to nuance what he meant by CCM too much.

But getting back to the KoL: others said that they were "mocking God." You offered Galatians 6:6-9 as support for that; to which I responded:


I respect you and was wondering about your response (and if you even were able to see the original post). My understanding here is that Paul is saying, "God cannot be mocked..." The KoL (and everybody else in humanity for that matter!) may by their actions attempt to mock God, but God Himself simply cannot be mocked; and so, "the joke's on us" (all of us!). Therefore the heavy condemnation others offered is really unwarranted, IMO. These kids themselves seem to be realizing the scope of what they're dealing with. At least that is my hope, because some really beautiful music might come from that.

Off topic: There seems to be some lag on the board during the evening rush. Maybe it's just me as I tend to lag at about the same time of day.

Reat the titles of some of their songs, like "Holy Roller Novocaine."

Yes, they mock God and their heritage.

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 06:54 AM
You are completely incorrect. Remember: What was "popular music" in 1935 is completely different from what is popular music now. There has almost ALWAYS been a Christian "version" of whatever style of music was "popular" at the time.

Educate thyself.

it wasn't the same then... and I know all those things, churches throwing organs in the swamp and such...

see Pelathias' post, he gets what I'm saying:

but I think RC was perhaps guilty only of trying to nuance what he meant by CCM too much.

CCM didn't exist in 1935, even though there might have been some hymns and stuff, it was completely different... it was considered a sidebar, some "church thing"...

besides, its not like anyone here was more than, oh, 10 in 1935, so 1935 is irrelevant... gospel music was a sidebar in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s... yeah, it existed, even stuff that would now be considered CCM... but you wouldn't turn on your local alternative rock station and hear Christian music (you can now), you wouldn't turn on your local top 40 station and hear Chrsitian music (you can now), you wouldn't turn on your local hard rock station and hear Christian music (you can now)....

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 06:57 AM
Reat the titles of some of their songs, like "Holy Roller Novocaine."

Yes, they mock God and their heritage.

honestly, from what you guys have said I haven't seen any mocking of God, just of thier heritage... and even then, is it really mocking or just speaking of what they know like all artists do??

Holy Roller Novocaine... I could totally see how a song with that title could even be written by a Christian, even an Apostolic, band...

Say, if it were about how people put on a facade and use the emotionalism that is so often present in our services to hide the pain from others and numb it in thier own mind for a little while to forget... using the emotionalism, and even God to a point, like a drug to escape reality while never letting go of thier hurts and laying them at the feet of Christ...

now I doubt it is about that... but the point is you can't judge a song by its title, listen to the song and read the lyrics before you say its mocking anything...

MissBrattified
10-05-2007, 07:30 AM
RC, maybe some folks feel empathy towards these boys...I do to some extent...however, there is nothing godly or uplifting about their music. I wouldn't recommend it for a Christian.

I have read the lyrics to some of their songs...have you?

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 07:34 AM
RC, maybe some folks feel empathy towards these boys...I do to some extent...however, there is nothing godly or uplifting about their music. I wouldn't recommend it for a Christian.

I have read the lyrics to some of their songs...have you?

go back and read what I said... I said that I could see it being something not mocking, or even possibly Christian...

I know thier song isn't, but my point was simply that reading the title of a song doesn't give you the ability to say if its mocking God or not (unless the title is directly mocking God)...

I was simply saying that people should stop saying "read the title of this song, SEE!! THEY'RE MOCKING GOD!" 'cuz its dumb...

I know that nothing they write is godly or uplifting, I was simply saying you can't judge a song by its title the way some in this thread have been doing...

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 07:56 AM
you responded to 843, you ignored, however, 841 which explicitly states that Muslims are included in the plan of salvation...

841 states "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator", period...

Anyone who acknowledges the God of Abraham, then, according to 841 is saved. period. You can argue it all you want, but that is explicitly what it says.

843 is in reference to non-Judeo-Christo-Islamic religions... You know, Wicca, Buddhism, Hindu, etc...

just like 841 and 842 are referring to Judaism exclusively...

it isn't RC lingo, you are either just playing dumb or incapable of understanding what they are saying...

Obviously, it is YOU that needs to take reading comprehension lessons.

There is a big difference between someone saying "Muslims are saved" and someone saying "the plan of salvation includes Muslims".

The PLAN of salvation includes EVERYONE...satanists, atheists, mormons, etc.

But the only way that ANYONE is actually saved is by following the PLAN of salvation according to scripture.

Of course Muslims are included in the PLAN of salvation. But unless they acknowledge and follow that plan, they are LOST.

According to the RCC, they are the church with a handle on the PLAN and Muslims are welcome and can be saved according this PLAN. But they must follow the RCC PLAN or they can not be saved.

Same goes for any other denominations. They are indeed "included in the plan of salvation" but they are not saved in the eyes of the RCC until they embrace her teachings and become a part of her.

You can deny the true teachings of the Roman Catholic Church all you want. You are buying into their deception.

They want everyone to believe that they just "love and accept" everybody. They want you to believe that they accept those of other faiths and consider them equally saved. THIS IS A LIE!

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 07:57 AM
NEXT...

You insinuated that because I'm "old" that things have changed in the RCC since I was a part of them. For the record, I'm 44. A few superficial things have changed in the RCC but their basic teachings pertaining to SALVATION, MARRIAGE, BIRTH CONTROL, MONETARY GIVING, MASS ATTENDANCE, TAKING OF THE SACRAMENTS, etc. HAS NOT CHANGED!

When I was a kid attending Mass, WOMEN AND GIRLS DID NOT WEAR PANTS TO CHURCH! It was not allowed. Women were also required to wear a HAT while in church. Men were not allowed to wear a hat in church.

With the exception of the men's hat part (which, btw, is where everyone else got the practice of men taking their hats off), the women's issues have changed. This changed before I even hit high school.

This is an example of superficial changes in the RCC. But the main teachings, like those pertaining to salvation, have remained the same WORLDWIDE.

If you are not a participating active member of the RCC, abiding by her MAIN WORLDWIDE teachings, you are NOT SAVED!

If you leave the RCC for any other denomination, you are a HERETIC and you are DAMNED FOREVER unless you return to the "mother" church.

THESE ARE FACTS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

I challenge you to prove otherwise. Even the best websites can be inaccurate.

Instead of going to "online websites", go to your LIBRARY. Study Catholic history and talk to some DEVOUT catholics. Don't talk to your everyday faithful catholic that just remains catholic cause momma did it and daddy did it and grandma did it and great great grandpa did it. FIND A DEVOUT CATHOLIC THAT DOESN'T SUGARCOAT THEIR TEACHINGS. Find one that believes LATIN MASS is the only true Mass. Find one that refuses to attend a "modernized" catholic church.

Just as all UPC churches are not the same, neither are all catholic churches the same. Just as all UPC churches don't follow everything that comes down from headquarters, neither do all catholic churches follow everything that comes down from the vatican.

The rules I am discussing with you are NOT localized rules. I am speaking of VATICAN rules that are "supposed" to be followed by all Roman Catholic churches worldwide.

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 08:27 AM
as far as music goes, Christian music didn't exist until 10 years ago, so I seriously doubt these guys were listening to much other than gospel music years ago...



Christian music didn't exist until 10 years ago?

Thats real funny considering I'm 44 and have been listening to Christian music, including David & The Giants, since I was a TEENAGER!

Do you even know about David & The Giants? They had a concert at the Marshfield church when I was a teen. They caused a big uproar in the district cause their music was, shall we say, controversial in regards to style.

THEY ROCKED! LOL!

Alot of pastors preached against their music. Said it was nothing but rock music with the words changed.

Anyway, your rambling about "official" verses "non-official" positions is totally irrelevant.

Why? Because you don't even know what positions are official and what ones aren't. You don't know this about the Roman Catholic church and you don't even know it about the UPCI, which you supposedly have some knowledge about having been a part of it.

You asked HeavenlyOne to show you one UPC church that doesn't preach against women wearing pants, etc.

So now you have changed gears and are speaking of individual UPCI churches. Yet when we have been discussing the RCC, as a comparison, you were quick to say that you were speaking of their "catechisms" in general, not on an individual church basis. You admitted that their "catechisms" could vary from church to church.

You do not debate well brother. You do not debate well. :killinme

MissBrattified
10-05-2007, 08:35 AM
go back and read what I said... I said that I could see it being something not mocking, or even possibly Christian...

I know thier song isn't, but my point was simply that reading the title of a song doesn't give you the ability to say if its mocking God or not (unless the title is directly mocking God)...

I was simply saying that people should stop saying "read the title of this song, SEE!! THEY'RE MOCKING GOD!" 'cuz its dumb...

I know that nothing they write is godly or uplifting, I was simply saying you can't judge a song by its title the way some in this thread have been doing...

I believe that when you mock God's people, you are mocking Him.

Sandra
10-05-2007, 08:48 AM
Kings of Leon love the life of rock
October 4, 2007

BY BEN EDMONDS
FREE PRESS SPECIAL WRITER

From the Wilson family of the Beach Boys to the battling Gallagher brothers of Oasis, rock 'n' roll has a rich fraternal history. This is especially true of Southern rock. Beginning with the brothers Burnette (Johnny and Dorsey) and Everly (Phil and Don), extending through the Allman Brothers and the bands of the Van Zandt clan (of which Ronnie's Lynyrd Skynyrd was only the first) and down to Chris and Rich Robinson of the Black Crowes.

The latest in this lineage are the three brothers (and, like the Beach Boys, a cousin) from Tennessee who call themselves Kings of Leon. Already chart-toppers in England, their steady march toward the same destination Stateside arrives at the Fillmore Detroit on Thursday, where they'll headline a bill that also includes Black Rebel Motorcycle Club and Manchester Orchestra.

The quartet's rootsy, passionate Americana, infused with enough punkish energy to mark them as a modern extension of the Southern rock tradition, attracted critical hosannas in Europe when the debut Kings of Leon album was released in 2003. The band soon found itself opening arena and stadium shows for U2, Oasis and the Strokes. This would have been a daunting proposition for most young bands, but the Kings (as they're known in fan shorthand) embraced it.

"It was a little scary at first," admits bassist Jared Followill, at almost-21 the youngest King. (The others are brothers singer-guitarist Caleb and drummer Nathan, plus cousin Matthew Followill on lead guitar.) "You start out and the coolest thing you can possibly imagine is playing in front of a hundred sweaty kids in some tiny club. That's really cool; we still like doing that. But there's something about playing in front of thousands and thousands of people that can be incredibly inspiring. You should be in it to grow, and reach more and more people."

Like so many Southern rockers before them, Kings of Leon come from a church background where secular music was forbidden. Perhaps escaped that background would be a better description, according to Jared. "It was so strict it was almost Amish," he says of the United Pentecostal Church, in which their father was a traveling preacher.

"It was ridiculous. You couldn't listen to anything but gospel music. No TV, no movies, no pants or makeup for women. Everything changed when our parents divorced and I started going to public school. We went from a completely sheltered world to a completely un-sheltered world. I loved it! It was like coming up for air."

This helps explain the Kings' already legendary fondness for post-show socializing. "We figured it out the other day," the bassist confides, "and the alcohol that's been consumed on this tour would probably fill eight or nine swimming pools. We learned about partying when we toured with the Strokes. We'd show up for sound check and they'd be there with cups of vodka. I'd seen people drink beer at a football game, but this was the middle of the day! We were basically corrupted by the Strokes. Then they stopped drinking, so the joke's on us."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071004/ENT04/710040328/1039

this is very sad, the UPC focuses to much on rules and not a relationship with JESUS. To bad they didn't really know Jesus.

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 09:19 AM
I believe that when you mock God's people, you are mocking Him.


There is Scripture to support that view.

We are His Body.

When Israel rejected Samuel, the Lord told him that there were really rejecting Him.

God takes personally what people do and say toward His children.

We are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Lord told Abraham: I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee."

That still applies.

mizpeh
10-05-2007, 10:43 AM
Jesus told Saul he was persecuting Him when Saul was persecuting the Jewish Christians.

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 10:44 AM
Obviously, it is YOU that needs to take reading comprehension lessons.

no, I really don't...

the next 3 posts worth of things

its nice that our experiences are different than the creeds and edicts that they put out... but its laughable tht you don't even know how the RCC works yet you are arguing about what they believe...

and I know more about it than you think... I've studied Catholic History, I've studied Christian History... There is a way things work and there is a doublespeak to it, yes, but not at this level.

You keep going back to your experience when you were a kid, but I keep going back to the edicts of the church, the dogmas of the church, and the Catechism itself... If you want to make an argument about what the Catholic church believes, stop going by what you were told at one Catholic church as a little girl (what % of Catholic churches in America had the priest molest little kids BTW? Wasn't it pretty high? How can they not be fully aware of that kind of thing, but be fully aware of all the teachings of the churches?)

but, hey, you make this easy, keep using your experience and never backing it up with anything official (when theofficial stuff is what is important in the RCC)...

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 10:50 AM
Here you go redeemedcynic....check out these links. LOL!

http://www.davidandthegiants.com/

http://lyrics.christiansunite.com/artist_77.shtml

Note the YEAR they started out...note also, they were just starting out...

IN 1977!

(Hmmmm...I think thats a few years MORE than just 10!)

:killinme

Oh I'm so sorry, you weren't even a twinkle in momma and daddy's eye yet now were ya? :D

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 10:51 AM
Christian music didn't exist until 10 years ago?

Thats real funny considering I'm 44 and have been listening to Christian music, including David & The Giants, since I was a TEENAGER!


you need to keep up, this has been discussed on this page...

Christian music existed, but it wasn't even a subgenre and it didn't matter... no one except for the churches who had David and the Giants at them had ever heard of "David and the Giants"...

But now you can call up your local secular rock station and ask them to play Skillet or Underoath or a number of other Christian bands and they'll have a few songs for each of them that get or have gotten airtime...

That is what I was talking about... Yes, they existed, but they didn't matter in the grand scheme of music... now they do...

Alot of pastors preached against their music. Said it was nothing but rock music with the words changed.

a lot of pastors still say that nonsense...

Why? Because you don't even know what positions are official and what ones aren't. You don't know this about the Roman Catholic church and you don't even know it about the UPCI, which you supposedly have some knowledge about having been a part of it.

:killinme

I know a lot about the RCC, like I said, use something official... Use something they decreed in a Papal decree, or the rulings of a Council, or some sort of official Dogma... because that is all that matters in the RCC...

So now you have changed gears and are speaking of individual UPCI churches. Yet when we have been discussing the RCC, as a comparison, you were quick to say that you were speaking of their "catechisms" in general, not on an individual church basis. You admitted that their "catechisms" could vary from church to church.

No, the issue there is that I have yet to find the UPC's rulebook (I forget what its called) posted online, because, well, most of the time we seem to kind of be ashamed of it (but yet we still don't have the guts to change it)...

The Catechism on the other hand, along with every papal decree, every council's decision, and every other official document of the church (other than the super secret ones that no one really knows about, I'm sure... and I'm sure there were a few of those in the days of the inquisition and stuff) are online in thier entirety and can be read and searched by anyone...

You do not debate well brother. You do not debate well.

anywhere but on this forum, you'd have been laughed out of the room 5 pages ago... You have said nothing but "I remember when I was a kid" which doesn't even matter... whereas I've quoted teh catechism, to which you respond "oh yeah? Well, that isn't how it is", when you fail to realize that IS actually how it is, even if your church didn't do it that way when you were a kid...

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 10:52 AM
I believe that when you mock God's people, you are mocking Him.

yeah, but you really aren't...

I mean, do you have some scripture to back that up or anything?? That's kind or putting yourself in the place of God, isn't it? ("God's people = God" could be considered blasphemous, really)

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 10:53 AM
There is Scripture to support that view.

We are His Body.

When Israel rejected Samuel, the Lord told him that there were really rejecting Him.

God takes personally what people do and say toward His children.

We are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Lord told Abraham: I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee."

That still applies.

yeah, but criticism isn't really mocking... and if they are right in thier criticism, I'd doubt that God cares...

and I'd doubt that God likes the fact that most people seem unwilling to even consider that they could be right in thier criticism of us...

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 10:54 AM
Jesus told Saul he was persecuting Him when Saul was persecuting the Jewish Christians.

but at the same time an argument could be made that Paul was converted the way he was BECAUSE of his persecution of Christians...

as if they were incorrect about Jesus, everything Paul did was absolutely correct in the law...

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 10:56 AM
Here you go redeemedcynic....check out these links. LOL!

http://www.davidandthegiants.com/

http://lyrics.christiansunite.com/artist_77.shtml

Note the YEAR they started out...note also, they were just starting out...

IN 1977!

(Hmmmm...I think thats a few years MORE than just 10!)

:killinme

Oh I'm so sorry, you weren't even a twinkle in momma and daddy's eye yet now were ya? :D

read the next post... (plus a couple on the page before this explaining what I mean)

see, it doesn't matter if some band that 99.9999% of the planet has never heard of was around in 1977 or not.. The fact of the matter is (and what I am saying is) that Christian music didn't exist in a way that meant anything until the mid 1990s when DC Talk & Jars of Clay took off...

up until that point no one had heard of Chrisitan music except through Amy Grant's crossover (and really all they'd heard of her was stuff that wasn't Christian at all on any level)

ILUVHIM
10-05-2007, 10:56 AM
this is very sad, the UPC focuses to much on rules and not a relationship with JESUS. To bad they didn't really know Jesus.

I came to the UPCI as a teenager (very troubled), and I thank God for its rules because it gave me a structure to which I could govern my life. I did not have parents in church and I was a bad kid. Did I like these rules no, but I had enough sense and intelligence to know that they are rules that govern any relationship, and I was only a teenager.

By the way I am not attending a UPCI fellowship because I relocated to a region where there is none. But I do worship at an Apostolic church and I am very happy. Thank God for leading me to the UPCI otherwise I woud be damned to the lake of fire.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 10:56 AM
and that would be phariseeical and un-Biblical... you can't preach "I prefer this" and actually expect people to care...

Paul did it all the time. Ever read the Bible??


I know some existed, but it was hard to find and not common (in terms of "non-gospel" stuff)...

real Christian music as a genre didn't boom until DC Talk & Jars of Clay hit massively (I think both went double platinum) in the mid-90s...

And you know this because??? I mean, you weren't even aware of what music even was until the mid-90's!!! I was a teen in the 80's listening to contemporary music and it was quite easy to find, as I had several tapes of various artists!



lol

the Amish are like that... when you refuse to use electricity, or wear clothes bought in stores and such, you are a culture unto yourself...

and if they don't do those things, they're probably rejected by most other Amish...

So? Does the UPC do this? Hardly!!

Sandra
10-05-2007, 11:02 AM
I came to the UPCI as a teenager (very troubled), and I thank God for its rules because it gave me a structure to which I could govern my life. I did not have parents in church and I was a bad kid. Did I like these rules no, but I had enough sense and intelligence to know that they are rules that govern any relationship, and I was only a teenager.

By the way I am not attending a UPCI fellowship because I relocated to a region where there is none. But I do worship at an Apostolic church and I am very happy. Thank God for leading me to the UPCI otherwise I woud be damned to the lake of fire.

You story is a good one, I'm sure it was presented to you in a better way and you truly had a relationship with Jesus. These boys just went along with the rules and never really knew Jesus, this is very sad.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 11:02 AM
was there "Christian music" in the 1970s? Yeah, but by and large it was considered "gospel music"... and yeah Stryper and Petra and some others existed in the 1980s, but they were an afterthought and a joke by and large...



ROFL! Dude, you are forgetting people like Amy Grant, Michael W Smith, Sandi Patti, Twila Paris, Jaci Valasquez, Steven Curtis Chapman, Carman, and several others, who's cassette tapes I listened to as a teen in the 80's.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, as you were barely into existence during that time. The rest of us on this forum were alive and well.

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 11:03 AM
Paul did it all the time. Ever read the Bible??

Paul was a lot more exact in what he said... it was never "Paul's opinion"...

besides, Paul was removing rules, not adding them... We just keep adding them...

And you know this because??? I mean, you weren't even aware of what music even was until the mid-90's!!! I was a teen in the 80's listening to contemporary music and it was quite easy to find, as I had several tapes of various artists!

wow... and those several tapes, in the 80s, probably encompassed the entirety of Christian music... That's my point... The comparison between Christian music in 1985 and 2005 isn't even a comparison the gap is so wide...

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 11:03 AM
no, I really don't...



its nice that our experiences are different than the creeds and edicts that they put out... but its laughable tht you don't even know how the RCC works yet you are arguing about what they believe...

and I know more about it than you think... I've studied Catholic History, I've studied Christian History... There is a way things work and there is a doublespeak to it, yes, but not at this level.

You keep going back to your experience when you were a kid, but I keep going back to the edicts of the church, the dogmas of the church, and the Catechism itself... If you want to make an argument about what the Catholic church believes, stop going by what you were told at one Catholic church as a little girl (what % of Catholic churches in America had the priest molest little kids BTW? Wasn't it pretty high? How can they not be fully aware of that kind of thing, but be fully aware of all the teachings of the churches?)

but, hey, you make this easy, keep using your experience and never backing it up with anything official (when theofficial stuff is what is important in the RCC)...

My experience includes a formal Roman Catholic school education and an extremely devout father in addition to other family members.

From the time I was old enough to learn, I was taught the teachings of the Roman Catholic church at home, at other relatives homes, and then later in catholic school.

That word "catechism" that you love to throw around so much simply means TEACHINGS. DUH! :killinme Did you even KNOW this?

Who did you study Catholic history under? Where and when? Give the schools name and the teachers name. How many years did you study?

Whats LAUGHABLE is your obvious "imaginary knowledge".

My experience and my education is "official". Not only was I taught catechism, I actually followed those same "catechisms". Oooooooo, imagine that! :D I had to PRACTICE what I was taught! Isn't that amazing?

Your internet "self study" that probably consisted of a few hours, at best, is ludicrous and most laughable.

You don't know doodly squat about how the RCC works. Stick with the UPC brother...at least you can say you have some "official" experience there.

:killinme:killinme:killinme

P.S. Catholic schools teach that which comes down from the POPE. You know...the big guy in Rome who is considered to be infallible. LOL!

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 11:03 AM
You are completely incorrect. Remember: What was "popular music" in 1935 is completely different from what is popular music now. There has almost ALWAYS been a Christian "version" of whatever style of music was "popular" at the time.

Educate thyself.

Educate? Don't you know he's already the expert here?

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 11:04 AM
ROFL! Dude, you are forgetting people like Amy Grant, Michael W Smith, Sandi Patti, Twila Paris, Jaci Valasquez, Steven Curtis Chapman, and several others, who's cassette tapes I listened to as a teen in the 80's.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, as you were barely into existence during that time. The rest of us on this forum were alive and well.


This is a poster who can never, ever admit that he is mistaken about anything.

I have determined that reasoning with him is an utter waste of time.

I will occasionally correct some of his blatant false statements for the sake of lurkers who might be reading, but dialogue with him is a no-win situation.

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 11:05 AM
Paul was a lot more exact in what he said... it was never "Paul's opinion"...

besides, Paul was removing rules, not adding them... We just keep adding them...



wow... and those several tapes, in the 80s, probably encompassed the entirety of Christian music... That's my point... The comparison between Christian music in 1985 and 2005 isn't even a comparison the gap is so wide...


I wonder if this poster reads the Bible...Paul added several himself.

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 11:06 AM
Educate? Don't you know he's already the expert here?

On each and every subject.

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 11:13 AM
read the next post... (plus a couple on the page before this explaining what I mean)

see, it doesn't matter if some band that 99.9999% of the planet has never heard of was around in 1977 or not.. The fact of the matter is (and what I am saying is) that Christian music didn't exist in a way that meant anything until the mid 1990s when DC Talk & Jars of Clay took off...

up until that point no one had heard of Chrisitan music except through Amy Grant's crossover (and really all they'd heard of her was stuff that wasn't Christian at all on any level)


Thats pure baloney.

Christian music was alive and well, popular and significant long before 1977.

Give us a break and go educate yourself.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 11:14 AM
Paul was a lot more exact in what he said... it was never "Paul's opinion"...

besides, Paul was removing rules, not adding them... We just keep adding them...


Just as I thought. You haven't read his letters. He states several times "I suffer" or "I would rather", even regarding people getting married!!


wow... and those several tapes, in the 80s, probably encompassed the entirety of Christian music... That's my point... The comparison between Christian music in 1985 and 2005 isn't even a comparison the gap is so wide...

See that highlighted part of your post? That's the problem right there....you really have no idea BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T EVEN ALIVE!!!!

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 11:14 AM
My experience includes a formal Roman Catholic school education and an extremely devout father in addition to other family members.

From the time I was old enough to learn, I was taught the teachings of the Roman Catholic church at home, at other relatives homes, and then later in catholic school.

That word "catechism" that you love to throw around so much simply means TEACHINGS. DUH! :killinme Did you even KNOW this?

Who did you study Catholic history under? Where and when? Give the schools name and the teachers name. How many years did you study?

Whats LAUGHABLE is your obvious "imaginary knowledge".

My experience and my education is "official". Not only was I taught catechism, I actually followed those same "catechisms". Oooooooo, imagine that! :D I had to PRACTICE what I was taught! Isn't that amazing?

Your internet "self study" that probably consisted of a few hours, at best, is ludicrous and most laughable.

You don't know doodly squat about how the RCC works. Stick with the UPC brother...at least you can say you have some "official" experience there.

:killinme:killinme:killinme

P.S. Catholic schools teach that which comes down from the POPE. You know...the big guy in Rome who is considered to be infallible.

except obviously they don't since they taught you things that aren't supported by the official statement of doctrine of the Catholic Church (the catechism)...

and it wasn't self-study, it was college courses on Christian history...

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 11:17 AM
This is a poster who can never, ever admit that he is mistaken about anything.

I have determined that reasoning with him is an utter waste of time.

I will occasionally correct some of his blatant false statements for the sake of lurkers who might be reading, but dialogue with him is a no-win situation.

I totally agree with you. He is an expert on all topics and you are wrong if you don't agree with his expertise.

But hey, I'm having fun with this kid. Someday he'll grow up and realize how idiotic his understanding was at the age of 23, and arguing with people much older with more life experiences as if he's all of us wrapped into one person.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 11:18 AM
On each and every subject.

He was like that on the GNC too. He was defending Senator Craig as being an innocent party who didn't know that making those hand gestures meant something else to the person in the next stall......LOL!

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 11:19 AM
except obviously they don't since they taught you things that aren't supported by the official statement of doctrine of the Catholic Church (the catechism)...

and it wasn't self-study, it was college courses on Christian history...

You're only 23. Telling us you have studied Catholic history for what, the last 5 years, therefore you are an expert?

LR lived as a Catholic for 14 years. Try that.

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 11:31 AM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...

I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...

Sandra
10-05-2007, 11:42 AM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...

I have NO say so.. but you should be BANNED for the highlighted statment. JMO

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 11:56 AM
except obviously they don't since they taught you things that aren't supported by the official statement of doctrine of the Catholic Church (the catechism)...

and it wasn't self-study, it was college courses on Christian history...

College courses taught at a secular college? Courses that include ALL denominations?

Sorry, but secular colleges are only going to teach you what they want you to know.

Now if you had gone to a Roman Catholic college, then I might consider your education to be accurate.

Also, how many years have you studied the catholic church exclusively? You do know that a year or two will never cover everything...don't you? I can answer my own question...I don't think you realize this at all.

I'd love to get my dad on here to debate with you. But he doesn't do forums and chat and such. He'd eat your lunch brother. You wouldn't last 5 minutes. My dad is actually one of the reasons I'm so dogmatic when discussing the catholic church. I've had to battle the best. He not only knows his "catechism" (theres your favorite word again) but he knows his BIBLE. A catholic bible of course but nonetheless he knows it.

Btw, my dad is what the RCC calls a "lay minister". Do you know what they are according to the RCC? Or do you only know the UPCI definition? :D

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 12:03 PM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...

I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...

If you truly hate then you are worse off than the Kings of Leon.

No sex, no drugs, no alcohol needed...just hate.

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 12:25 PM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...

I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...


You hate people who won't bow to your know-it-all pontifications, Brother.

You want to come here in all your sage wisdom and straighten out the whole forum, and when people call your hand on ridiculous misstatements, you show your true colors.

Please get some help, and grow up.

StillStanding
10-05-2007, 12:26 PM
You hate people who won't bow to your know-it-all pontifications, Brother.

You want to come here in all your sage wisdom and straighten out the whole forum, and when people call your hand on ridiculous misstatements, you show your true colors.

Please get some help, and grow up.
:thumbsup

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 12:35 PM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...

I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...

You really have problems, dude. More serious than I thought.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 12:37 PM
:thumbsup

I second that emoticon.

redeemedcynic84
10-05-2007, 12:46 PM
you know what's hilarious???

You say stuff like "you need to get help" when half a page before (and occasionally in the post you say it) you are insulting me outright...

Yeah, I'm gonna go to you to get help when you think I need it, but then insult me when telling me I need it...

good job...

Oh and a warning? Really? All the insults that I get, all the personal comments made towards me that I need to wade through, and then I get a warning? Seriously?

I guess BOOMM's warning to me from NFCF about how mods didn't care what was said to me still stands, huh?

ya'll are a joke... you say "you need help" while at the same time saying things that make sure that I surely aren't going to go to you or anyone like you to get it... Good job...

you people sometimes make me thing that if there is a God and he actually cares what you think... that he isn't worth following....

and you can warn me for this, post, moderators, I don't really care, I won't be back either way...

have fun with your hypocrisy and self-righteousness... I hope God judges you half as harshly as you judge others...

Coonskinner
10-05-2007, 12:53 PM
RC,

Pointing out fallacies is not insulting someone.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 12:55 PM
you know what's hilarious???

You say stuff like "you need to get help" when half a page before (and occasionally in the post you say it) you are insulting me outright...

Yeah, I'm gonna go to you to get help when you think I need it, but then insult me when telling me I need it...

good job...

Oh and a warning? Really? All the insults that I get, all the personal comments made towards me that I need to wade through, and then I get a warning? Seriously?

I guess BOOMM's warning to me from NFCF about how mods didn't care what was said to me still stands, huh?

ya'll are a joke... you say "you need help" while at the same time saying things that make sure that I surely aren't going to go to you or anyone like you to get it... Good job...

you people sometimes make me thing that if there is a God and he actually cares what you think... that he isn't worth following....

and you can warn me for this, post, moderators, I don't really care, I won't be back either way...

have fun with your hypocrisy and self-righteousness... I hope God judges you half as harshly as you judge others...

When we suggested you get help, we weren't suggesting you come to us for it. It's clear that we cannot help you, but then again, to be helped you have to want help, and that's a place you have yet to come to.

And watch out what you wish for, cause you just might get it.....and more than what you bargained for. Words have a way of coming back to bite us later.

Larry, come back in ten years, after you've lived an actual life, had some experiences, some losses, and can admit when you are wrong. Those are the people who are respected in this life.

You want to be a pastor someday? You won't get there with the attitude you have of people who disagree with you. You won't get there by refusing to listen to the voice of maturity and reason. Larry cannot get anywhere in life thinking that Larry is the only person who knows anything.

You will find this out to be true, eventually. Right now, discard these words.....but someday, you will remember them.

Michael Phelps
10-05-2007, 01:47 PM
you know what's hilarious???

You say stuff like "you need to get help" when half a page before (and occasionally in the post you say it) you are insulting me outright...

Yeah, I'm gonna go to you to get help when you think I need it, but then insult me when telling me I need it...

good job...

Oh and a warning? Really? All the insults that I get, all the personal comments made towards me that I need to wade through, and then I get a warning? Seriously?

I guess BOOMM's warning to me from NFCF about how mods didn't care what was said to me still stands, huh?

ya'll are a joke... you say "you need help" while at the same time saying things that make sure that I surely aren't going to go to you or anyone like you to get it... Good job...

you people sometimes make me thing that if there is a God and he actually cares what you think... that he isn't worth following....

and you can warn me for this, post, moderators, I don't really care, I won't be back either way...

have fun with your hypocrisy and self-righteousness... I hope God judges you half as harshly as you judge others...

Wow. I guess the old adage is true........."Hate is an acid. It can damage the vessel in which it is stored as well as the object on which it is poured. ..."

It's unfortunate when someone allows themselves to become so corroded......

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 01:49 PM
:bigbaby

Elizabeth
10-05-2007, 01:51 PM
you know what's hilarious???

You say stuff like "you need to get help" when half a page before (and occasionally in the post you say it) you are insulting me outright...

Yeah, I'm gonna go to you to get help when you think I need it, but then insult me when telling me I need it...

good job...

Oh and a warning? Really? All the insults that I get, all the personal comments made towards me that I need to wade through, and then I get a warning? Seriously?

I guess BOOMM's warning to me from NFCF about how mods didn't care what was said to me still stands, huh?

ya'll are a joke... you say "you need help" while at the same time saying things that make sure that I surely aren't going to go to you or anyone like you to get it... Good job...

you people sometimes make me thing that if there is a God and he actually cares what you think... that he isn't worth following....

and you can warn me for this, post, moderators, I don't really care, I won't be back either way...

have fun with your hypocrisy and self-righteousness... I hope God judges you half as harshly as you judge others...

Well I think you have sealed your fate here at AFF everyone wave bu-bye!:wave

BrotherEastman
10-05-2007, 02:47 PM
:bigbaby
yer bad!

LadyRev
10-05-2007, 03:07 PM
yer bad!

Yeah, I know. I have a reputation to maintain. ;)

BrotherEastman
10-05-2007, 03:19 PM
Yeah, I know. I have a reputation to maintain. ;)
If I were the one to do that, then I would be the one with the "bad attitude", oh well.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 03:21 PM
If I were the one to do that, then I would be the one with the "bad attitude", oh well.

Speaking of bad attitudes, did you ever post pics of that boy since his birth?

pelathais
10-05-2007, 04:53 PM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...

I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...
C'mon RC, don't be like that. They made fun of your chest hair, they made fun of your age and they made fun in general. So what? The truth is most of us that are older actually envy your youth.

We remember when we were younger and full of spunk getting ourselves into trouble because we thought we understood all of the world's wisdom. The only thing that the years have brought us is the realization that we didn't really know so much after all. I think that's the gist of what they're trying to say. Leave "hate" out of your vocabulary. It does you no good.

Learn to take deep breathes and roll your eyes from time to time. That's where wisdom is often gained.

Praxeas
10-05-2007, 07:00 PM
C'mon RC, don't be like that. They made fun of your chest hair, they made fun of your age and they made fun in general. So what? The truth is most of us that are older actually envy your youth.

We remember when we were younger and full of spunk getting ourselves into trouble because we thought we understood all of the world's wisdom. The only thing that the years have brought us is the realization that we didn't really know so much after all. I think that's the gist of what they're trying to say. Leave "hate" out of your vocabulary. It does you no good.

Learn to take deep breathes and roll your eyes from time to time. That's where wisdom is often gained.
He's right bro. We long for the day when Wisdom escaped every thing we said and every word that came out of mouthes just sounded too silly to believe....hmmmm you know now that I think of it the older folks still do that too! :killinme

JamDat
10-05-2007, 07:58 PM
ya know... I'd really like to thank all of you on this site...

I had forgotten why I hated Apostolics so much...

I remember again now...

Thank you for helping me remember... its true, distance makes the heart grow fonder (or something like that)...

I know you're banned and shouldn't comment when you're not here, but what is it that you feel God calling you to? What's gotten into you boy?

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 08:06 PM
I know you're banned and shouldn't comment when you're not here, but what is it that you feel God calling you to? What's gotten into you boy?

He told me about a month ago that he was going to school to be a pastor.

I have a feeling his church will be a church of one.

JamDat
10-05-2007, 08:19 PM
He told me about a month ago that he was going to school to be a pastor.

I have a feeling his church will be a church of one.

Oh he did, did he? That's news to me.

I couldn't tell if he was joking around or not before when he called me a traitor, but with his hate comment I don't think he was.

IF he comes to church this Sunday I'm going to kick him in the rear end. J/K, but when I live this close to him and see this junk I do entertain the thought, lol.

I suspect this hard day for him might have something to do with his sister.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 08:33 PM
Oh he did, did he? That's news to me.

I couldn't tell if he was joking around or not before when he called me a traitor, but with his hate comment I don't think he was.

IF he comes to church this Sunday I'm going to kick him in the rear end. J/K, but when I live this close to him and see this junk I do entertain the thought, lol.

I suspect this hard day for him might have something to do with his sister.

He told me on the GNC that he was attending school and his goal was to pastor someday.

What's going on with his sister?

Oh, and kick him for me too! LOL!

JamDat
10-05-2007, 08:37 PM
He told me on the GNC that he was attending school and his goal was to pastor someday.

What's going on with his sister?

Oh, and kick him for me too! LOL!

His wish and calling that he says he hears from God, is to be a pastor. However he is not attending school to become one. He's attending school for computers.

His sister... There is a thread in the prayer closet about it.

HeavenlyOne
10-05-2007, 09:04 PM
His wish and calling that he says he hears from God, is to be a pastor. However he is not attending school to become one. He's attending school for computers.

His sister... There is a thread in the prayer closet about it.

My mistake. This is what he said:

I'm 23, college graduate, looking to go to grad school to be in the ministry in a couple years.