Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

****I do not want this thread to become a debate if at all possible.****

Hello all. The family in question is acutally on my wifes side. Her cousin is a gay man. He has been married before and even has a child. His boyfriend and him were both raised in the church. They are soul mates many say. They started as friends and over the years grew closer until they one day consumated the relationship. Through the time they have been together both of them will tell you that their relationship has had VERY few sexual encounters with each other. It is more of a soul mate relationship. As of roughly a year ago my wifes cousin JA, no one on here knows them so no PM's guessing, lost his father. JA and his bf have been having the feeling that they do not want to miss heaven. They know based on their heritage that their lifestyle is wrong, but they keep asking themselves why they have these feelings and so on. Of course we tell them there is pleasure in sin and all that which they acknowledge they are wrong, but are having a rough time letting each other go and moving on.

I know people that have fought the sin of homosexuality in their past. I am not ashamed to say the devil tried to get me to fall into it at avery young age, but I have victory and ABSOLUTELY NO temptations ever! I know others that have victory over it too. But I guess that we need everyones prayers. Most in my family, my side and my wifes side, see me as the spiritual leader or guru of sorts. They all come to me with questions and concerns about this though most of them have no clue that God delievered me. The old saying seems to be true the more hell you have gone through in life the more of heaven is poured out on you. Just to clear the air I NEVER fell into this sin, but the devil tried to get me to fall. I have talked with alot of men about this and lots have gone through the same things.

Also I need some advise from you out there. I have RARELY told anyone about my past temptations. Again having NEVER done anything like that it is difficult for me to totally relate to these guys. I feel that AFF is kinda like a family. As I say most in my family I have never told about this stuff cause the embarassment it could bring. I hope that no one on here treats me different because I am not nor have I ever been gay. Nor will I ever be because God delivered me! Praise be to God!

I have talked to my wifes aunt about them starting to attend church again. The bf does go from time to time. I personally think it will be better for them that they split and NEVER see each other again. What kind of advise do any of you all have for me? I need all the help I can get. The family I speak of lives in IL so they are nowhere close to us here, but it seems that apparently I am the one to help. What say ye?

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I appreciate your honesty.
Sin is Sin whether it is stealing, lying, or homosexuality.
There is a spirit of homosexuality that is involved.

As for pleasure, well, a man in an extramarital affair will have pleasure-but it is still sin.

One bright light is that they want to make things right.
God is working.

One thing that is needed is prayer & lots of it.

Do they have an apostolic church to go to?

Is there someone who they can trust nearby to counsel them?

We had a native who was coming to my old church this last year who was in homosexuality, but he was hungry.

We opened up our arms to welcome him in & just after we left to start this new work in North Vancouver he got the Holy Ghost!

The future though is up to him.

Will be praying for you & your family.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

We have all had to give up a relationship to better serve God and make it to heaven.

I do not see this as any different.

It's not the feelings that is the problem as the behavior, and regardless of the infrequency if there is a temptation to be sexual with each other when they are together, in order to be saved they must separate in my opinion.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

You may try dealing with it from the following angle: Jesus talked about taking up our cross and following Him. For someone caught in the trap of homosexual desire, not acting on those desires may very well be the cross they have to bear while walking with Jesus on this road to life eternal.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

These were my thoughts as well, Jeanie.

I also think that the youth are a bit (understatement) enamored with the flesh and it doesn't always equate with homosexuality, JMO.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I think they might be better off finding a great pastor that will counsel with them and not condemn them. If they stay together there will probably be a greater temptation not to change the relationship. Above all Jesus can deliver both of them from this bondage. I will be praying for them JT, and also praying that God will give you wisdom to help the family deal with this also.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Just throwing this out of discussion - if they no longer have ANY sexual relations are they still living in sin?

Note: Assuming they have made their hearts right with God.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

You mean like being roommates? I will have to think about that. While it might not be sinful, I think it would be very unwise. I guess if they still consider themselves "soul mates" yes, with sex or without, it is the heart of the matter.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I think that would be a foolish thing for them to do. Like an alcoholic working in a bar. 2 Tim 2:22 FLEE youthful lusts.
It would also be impossible to live together like that and stay above reproach, after having that relationship previously.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I sat at dinner with a visiting Pastor who counsels many young people who struggle with homosexuality, he says he deals with the behavior first, because that is what is a sin.

The feelings and all that other stuff they can deal with later, but that they understand that the actions of homosexuality is what is sinful.

(I hope I am explainig this right, he sure said it better than I did)

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I agree with this!

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Oh dear this reminds me of a funny story.

Somewhere between here and the north pole my husband and I had an aquaintance named Bob... well Bob was a new convert and a little strange to boot. So one night around midnight he calls our house and tells my husband..."you'll never guess what the devil pulled on me tonight!!!"
So my husband said... "well??" Bob said " I felt the Lord leading me to go driving down by the bars tonight and witness, and you'll never believe what the devil pulled!!! A prostitute jumped right in my car and put the moves on me!!!.. RIGHT IN MY CAR!!!! Can you believe what that devil did?!?!?!"

Oh, how I wish you could all meet Bob.

Sorry for the hijack... carry on!

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I would deal with it as if it were any other sin i.e. alcohol, drugs, girl/boy relationships, etc. Sin is sin and it is better to flee temptations than to put yourself in the middle of temptation.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Oh my bil has a funny one about a new convert testifing about, after years of not getting along with his neighbor-the Lord helped them settle it all by going down to the bar and having a beer together!

He was thanking and praising God for what He has done.

:lol

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

HA.. that wouldn't quiet a service any!

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Just so everyone knows this thread should not and will not be about my situation. I do want everyone to know that God is a God that set people free from temptations. Infact with my situation it was VERY minor to most people, but major to me. It has taken my close to 20 yrs to able to talk about this. I feel that it is time for the test to moving into the testimony.

I would appreciate if anyone has a personal question for me or whatever PM me so I can answer anything you want to ask. If anyone reading this is struggling with the temptation or even if it has become an addiction and you want to talk by PM feel free to contact me. Believe me one of my best friends brother died of AIDS that he contracted through a homosexual lifestyle. So I have been through it all. Before my friends brother passed away he testified at church about his choice to be gay and what not. He said that he would rather die of AIDS and go to heaven than for God to heal him and there ever be a chance of turning his back on him. The brother has been dead over 10 yrs. Again if any of you want to ask me questions let me know by PM.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

That might have been a rhetorical question, but I will answer...

Not like alot of them that is for sure. Most of them I have known over the year were disowned. That is horrible and against the bible. If it were to happen with a son or even with my daughter I would make sure they knew that I loved them but based upon my personal convictions that I believe they are/were wrong. But that God is the ultimate judge, but I am not going to assume that they would make it. I would pray for and with them, but not in a public setting, like walk them to the altar to cast the gay out of them. At the end of the day my responsiblities #1 is to be the best and proper parent. #2 if I do my job as leader chances are my kids will be fine, but if they aren't it is a choice they would have to make. I am not certain if I would feel comfortable with them living with me depending the age. If my child wanted to be sexually active with their person of the same sex they better not do that in my house because I would ask them to leave. I am a different kinda pentecostal.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Jtull...

I wonder sometimes if folks who go thru this don't somehow gray the lines between parent and child relationships... not bonding with their parents and somehow construing the lines between brotherly love and sin?...

I think that most of the folks I have met who battle with this have had strained relationships with their parents... and it may be in some way a cry for a relationship they never had only crossing the lines of normalcy for sin...

I don't know if that makes sense...

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Think I know where you are going here. A son did not have a great relationship with his father so he reaches out to another man and falls into an unhealthy relationship with that person. That might be the case. With my friends brother that could not be farther from the truth, but not every case is the same.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

As a possible solution to this situation with the family I have thought about having them move away from each other and not talking anymore. Both the men have verbally stated that except for each other they are not attracted to other men, but infact are attracted to women. I guess they would fall under the bisexual tag. After having met these family members I really believe that. I think that the separation from each other will be tough, life long friends, but would be easier in comparison to one or both dying of AIDS or the extreme going to hell.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I couldn't agree more!

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I think this is a very important discussion. I was one of the youth leaders (about 6 or 7 years ago) at a church we attended in Oregon. I formed a lot of relationships with kids, and many of them are now adults. We had an amazing (approxamate) 2 year revival where the youth just exploded. They really led the church... but I digress....
In the past couple of years, I have tracked a few of them via the internet and there seems to be quite a few who have chosen the homosexual lifestyle. I have wondered if this is a kind of "phase" (similar to 'free love' in the 70's) or a very strong attack by satan...
What do you think?

And yes I have continued to remain in contact with them, and I will continue to do so...

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

How can they get AIDS if they aren't attracted to other men?

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I commend you on sticking with the friendships. But incase you are only doing so in order to hope to get them 'saved' again then I would say stop the friendship now. Not saying you are, but just a word of advise. No one hate empty promises and flattering words than I and the gay I know are looking and wanting genuine friendship just like us. It is funny alot of people in the church treat them like they are contagious, ya know? I for one try and treat everyone the same not matter the sexual orientation. Better be a good friend than a great fraud.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Not certain I understand where you are going here...Not all gays get AIDS and not all the people with AIDS are gay. The only men that JA and his bf are attracted to are each other. Otherwise they would mostlikely be with women. Neither have AIDS. The point of my post you quoted is that it is better to go through the hurt of not seeing and communicating with one another than it would be for either of them to get AIDS and lose the partner that way.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

We had a gay man attending our church for a while. He is living with the son of one of our members.

Honestly, I did not have a problem with this as he tried to pray and seemed to want to change. He finally told our pastor he didn't want to change.

When he told our son that he was "beautiful" it became personal for me and I struggled with - correction - am struggling to have compassion on him. My first thought was - "I wouldn't care if you dropped dead now."

I think when it becomes personal it's another whole ball game to work through.

Sorry, if anyone is offended by my feelings. I honestly am trying to work through this. He doesn't attend anymore, but my husband said, which he didn't mean and was speaking out of fear - "If he touches my son, I'll beat him to death with a baseball bat".

That is how volatile feelings can run, for some, with this issue. Just being honest.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Well I genuinely loved these kids, and still do. In fact there are even a couple who have donated to my son's mission fund. I know that there were many who turned their back on them when they went into this, and I won't be a part of that. Jesus told us to love our neighbors as ourselves, not just the ones that look like they are living right.
Sin is sin, and I have no problem calling it what it is, but the sinner is still loved by Jesus, and hopefully by me too.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I completely agree with you and I imagine if a heterosexual man at our church told our daughter that, my husband would feel the same way :gaga

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

If they aren't "with" other gays they aren't going to contact AIDS.

It's a tough situation because they were friends first and to having to give up the long-time friendship will be very difficult.

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Come on people! This isn't the 80's! You don't seriously think that only gay people get AIDS????

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I agree. If someone came after me or my kid that way it would be different whether it is same sex or not. But just purely being gay has nothing to do with that. Some gay people, men especially are very over the top and want to sleep with every man they see....some aren't, my family isn't. Not that you are doing this, but people are naive when they think all gays are the same. Every straight person ain't the same either. Gays are not out to recruit other to 'gaydom' or 'homosexualville'

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I know that. That was not my point. My point was that it is better for them to seperate out of choice that it would be for either of them to lose the other because of AIDS. AIDS is not only a gay persons disease, ask Arthur Ashes family. He was as straight as everything but a blood transfusion got him.

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I misunderstood what you were saying too. Sorry.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Right. I do understand that, but this guy is different. He has parties at his house on the weekends and hands out free liquor, drugs, cigarettes and porn to the minors that come over. Everyone in town knows he does this and no one stops him. He is a huge guy and sickening. He reminds me of "Jaba the Hut" on Star Wars.

Right now, I feel like I hate him for what he is doing. I know it's wrong, but at least I am facing how I feel about it. That's a start. Right? lol

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Those actions are worthless not matter the gender or the sexual preferance. Feeling a certain way and acting on those feels are two different issues. You can feel however you want to. Acting on those feels hurts everyone but you. Yor family loses you cause of jail and what not. If this person is of age and the people going to his parties are of age too no one can do anything. If the people going are under age then there is a responsability for someone to tell the law about it. I would feel the same way you do. But I say trust your kids, not sure how old they are, to make the right choices. Also keep in mind that because he calls your son pretty or beautiful does not directly mean he is going after him.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

Those type of men ruin children's and adolescent's lives. He almost sound like a pedophile. Disgusting that he preys on the innocents of those who dont know any better.

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

They are underage and no one cares. He decorates for the community and.....Lord, forget it. I can't stand thinking about it. The whole town is friendly to him. I just don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tissue

He is suing Walmart because one the employees, a friend of my SIL, didn't want to wait on him. lol

He is a very aggressive, offensive person. As long as I'm in church he is safe. I can't promise him anything if I were out. lol

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I'd like him to be saved as it would be a wonderful witness of God's mercy, compassion and delivering power, but if not - I wish he would hurry up and drop dead.

Lord, I have a way to go. :toofunny

Yes, my son is beautiful, er I mean handsome!

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

I think I would feel the same way, you are just saying what other people are thinking! Just don't let OP hear you!

Re: Gays, family ties and opening up....
 

This is probably one of those trying to communicate over the internet type of things. The reason I asked is because of the second part of your statement. If they are only attracted to each other, and neither of them is HIV+ then it stands to reason they wouldn't have to worry about getting AIDS.

This definitely sounds like a unique situation to be dealing with. Here you have two men who, other than each other, are not attracted to other males. They both want to do what's right in the sight of God and are wrestling with how to do that and still stay friends. It's a tough one, to say the least. It's easy to tell them to stay away from each other, but you already know that option could be setting them up to fail big time if they find they just can't be apart from each other. I would say they should at least try going for a time with no sexual contact, to see how that works first. Then, if that doesn't work, they could try being completely away from each other. If that doesn't work, I don't know what else to suggest.