It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Ministers
 

When giving the qualifications to be ordained for ministry.. ;Paul forbids the Ordination of New converts.. those who have only been saved for a few years are forbidden from preaching... I had no idea until I read this scripture

I Tim 3:6 - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

The meaning of NOVICE in its original - NEOPHUTOS - 1) newly planted

a) a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian)

It should be several years after conversion before anyone is allowed to approach the pulpit according to Pauls teachings.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Certainly they shouldn't be a novice for sure.
Everybody is at different levels though, I have a friend who came to the Lord about 3 years after me & he is already Pastoring.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Ordained by God or by man-made organizations?

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

not organizations but definitly by man.... Paul told Timothy to ordain elders in every city.. God didnt ordain those men.. MAN DID... because no one can not be in authority thats not under authority....

Ordination must take place by man,,. its how it happened in the NT and it must happen the same way now..

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

But at some point, did not a group of men decide that they were qualified to ordain others (or each other) without being "ordained" themselves?

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Sorry Brad.. not sure what you are referencing

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

I guess just that no one is really ordained unless they can show a hierachical chain of ordinations all the way back to Jesus. :D

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I think if someone is ordained too soon it can and usually does destroy them!

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

I know this personally to be a fact.......

I believe someone should be a believer for years before they are handed the pulpit.. there is no room for novices in Gods Kingdom as far as PREACHING

I was ordained at 14 years old... and OH HOW I WISH I could do it over again........ I had no business preaching the gospel at that age.... I was a NOVICE and just like scriptures tell us... PRIDE was not far behind... and then a fall came.........

We should be very careful who we ordain into ministry

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Every person is different. Some people may be ready for pulpit ministry in less time than others. Jesus entire ministry was only 3 1/2 years long. In that time frame he won many converts, trained them to preach, and had them out preaching.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Actually the majority of references to the disciples preaching was after his departure.. which means they spent at least 3 years in ministry training.. Jesus himself did not enter ministry until age 30....

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

There was plenty of preaching going on before He was crucified. I don't have my Bible program fired up, but what about the 70 He sent out, two by two?

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

This is a judgment call for those who would perform the ordination. The person should not be a novice, but to bind the "Ordination Officer" to a 3 year or more requirement is not something that is specified-- and I'm not sure one should specify and call it Biblical.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

I would definitely call it more Biblical than ordaining a NOVICE......It takes years of watching someones life to see if they are of good report... it takes years of study to show ones self approved before they should ever be recognized by the five fold ministry as a co-worker in ministry... instructing the Bride of Christ,, rebuking the church, maturing the church.... this is not the job for a Novist

I grew up in a church where they would pray you through and if you could testify loud they had you up preaching in no time at all.... of course trying to keep you in church..... and if your a preacher now it will be alot more difficult for you to backslide

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Ok, I'm going completely on memory right now... and my memory is terrible!!!
So correct me if I'm wrong, I'll willingly accept it.

But when Paul was converted, didn't he spend three years in study before begining his ministry?

Now, I'm not talking about soul winning and helping the local church believers and all those things... but as far as a preaching/teaching/Apostolic ministry, wasn't there a time frame before he entered into that.. (with the blessing of his fellow Apostles)

I'm trying to find it on my Bible software but it's been a while and I can't remember where it's recorded. But I'm almost certain.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

My guess is he started preaching immediately:


16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:16 (KJV)

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Galations 1:18... he stayed in Damascus (and some time in Arabia) for about three years.

Not certain what all he was doing for those three years... I imagine he was getting to know the Lord.
Then he went up to Jerusalem to see Peter. Course he had to prove himself all over again to them. :D

His ministry, sent out, Apostleship, didn't begin until he left Damascus 3 years after his conversion... I believe God has timing for everything ministry wise. I think we can get ahead of ourselves if we aren't careful.

Acts 9:18-26
He immediately began to testify of Jesus... so we know there is no time limit on becoming a soul winner!

I would never say someone cannot be used in ministry until they've been in church for 10 years... but I would say any positions of authority in a church should not be held by a novice.

I have been in this wonderful Church of God for the majority of my life, and I am still learning, growing, wising up...
First you have to get grounded, and that is why I agree with the three licences my org has... local, general and ordination.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Could not a novice or neophyte be not just in numbers of years but also in Character? Some people can be Christians for years yet still be immature

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

the rest of your argument had good points, but it was built on a faulty premise.

Either an arbitrary 3 yr probationary period is Biblical or not Biblical.

So a person, under the power of the Holy Ghost, can't prove to not be a novice, in let's say, 2.5 years?

We would do better to set that 3 yr probationary period as something that is our own custom than to try to tie God directly to it.

There is nothing wrong with having this 3 yr probationary standard (or any standard) as long as we are clear that this is indeed a man-made standard, not something God ordained.

The Amish do it this way. We could learn from the Amish.

We don't need to add any thing else to God's Word. This is how satan was able to deceive Eve, when she added to God's Word.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Gal 1:18 - We find the even the Apostle Paul spent 3 years in quietness and learning....... So we do have Bible for a 3 year period of training before being allowed into a pulpit

It was not until after those 3 years that he appeared unto the churches in Syria and Cilicia to preach to them.....

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Acts 9:19-20 (KJV)
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. 20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Sorry, but Paul didn't sit around for 3 years waiting on permission from someone to start preaching Jesus. So much for that theory.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Rico,

I think he was refering to what Paul said in Galatians.

galatians 1:15-24
15But when God, who set me apart from birth[a] and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.

18Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter[b] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. 20I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie. 21Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24And they praised God because of me.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Great point, Prax!

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Bro., I know what he was referring to . He's trying to establish some sort of Biblical mandate that someone wait a minimum of three years from conversion before they preach. I've already pointed out that Jesus sent out the 70, two by two during His ministry. Now he's trying to say Paul was in some sort of training for these three years, when the Bible doesn't say that at all. Paul wasted no time in preaching the Gospel after his conversion. A few days does not amount to three years.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

I think most commentators agree Paul’s time in Arabia was 3 years. Now whether that mandates 3 years of training is a different story. Paul proclaimed who Jesus was at the Synagogue, but he did not enter into the ministry full time for some time after that.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Baron, I am not saying this to be rude to you, but I really don't care what commentators have to say about much concerning the Bible. I never really have, and don't plan on starting now. The Bible says Paul preached Jesus in the synagogues right after his conversion. It doesn't specify what he did for those three years in Arabia, so anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's. When someone starts preaching needs to be left between them, God, and their pastor because everyone is different. Some people mature faster than others and some stay a novice for a long time. Besides, a preacher does not equal being a bishop or a deacon, so the whole premise behind this thread is faulty to begin with. Some people have no business in pulpit ministry to begin with, but that's a topic for another thread.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Rico,

Not saying this to be rude, but it is arrogant to discount the works of those who have made it their life to study the languages and customs of Scripture. There is much value in what they have to say.

You might want to check the meaning of the word "preach" in the context you quoted it in, I don't have the resources at work but usually that just means to proclaim and it doesn't indicate that Paul took a position of authority. I think you are reading into the word "preach" what we call a "preacher" today and that is a mistake.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

You are entitled to your opinion, Baron, as is anyone else. As for being arrogant, well, let's not go there this morning. I start taking calls in about 10 minutes and won't have the time to have that kind of fun with you today. Call volume has been crazy this week.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

This is an area of extreme lack in many Spirit-filled circles including most OP organizations. Lack of mentoring, except by other prima donna leaders that perpetuate poor leadership.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Friends,

I think we have gotten somewhat sidetracked from the original statement made. In the opening post Dr. Vaughn made the statement that "It is wrong to ordain new Christians as ministers." This initial statement I would wholeheartedly agree with. As Dr. Vaughn pointed out the Apostle Paul gave warning concerning this and the destruction that can come from being lifted up with pride because of being elevated too quickly without a strong foundation.

Where I feel Dr. Vaughn has erred would be his subsequent statement, that "It should be several years after conversion before anyone is allowed to approach the pulpit according to Pauls teachings." I do not feel there is any scriptural evidence to build such a case, and in fact, as has already been pointed out, the opposite seems to have happened even in the Apostle Paul's case. I began preaching publicly at the age of 12. I was licensed at 20 but I was not ordained until I was 29.

When one recognizes the call of God on their lives, there is nothing wrong with them being allowed to preach the Word of God, while being trained and mentored in the Word by their pastor. This time of training and preparation is a proving ground of their character, and calling that propels them to ordination. IHO ordination is symbol of maturity in ministry and should be prayerfully administered. Just because someone has a Bible college education does not mean they are qualified to be ordained.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Wow. You were preaching at 12 years of age? What was that like? Did people take you seriously?

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

People took all preachers more seriously back then. I remember the first message I preached was basically a "Hell is hot and everybody here is going there" type message. (A product of the era I guess) While I was preaching people began to get up and run to the altar, and I never got to finish the message. To this day, I'm not sure if they were really under conviction, or they were just trying to shut me up. (out of pity) LOL

I have stated many times however, that there is vast difference between preaching and ministering. I preached for many years, before I learned how to minister. Ministering (99% of the time) comes from experience which is something that most young preachers don't have.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

No thoughts on Paul's conversion and three years spent in Damascus?

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Very true. There definitely is a learning curve involved with being a minister of the Gospel.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

There have been a few posts related to your post, Sister. Did you miss them? :) Check back a few pages.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Ah, I see. The response was given to Dr's quotes... not mine, so when I skimmed I didn't see anyone who had responded to my own (except you, on my first post)

Thanks!

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

I would agree with this and there is reasoing behind this. Life teaches us things. Sure we might have good management skills or whatever but life teaches us so many things that cannot be taught in school or know by nature or over come by talent. We must experience them. 30 is a good starting place.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

If you are asking me........... Most theologians place Paul's conversion around 32/33 AD and as has already been quoted in Acts 9:20 he immediately preached Christ in the Synagogues. He preached Christ (Jesus is the Messiah) so convincingly that the Jews in Damascus tried to kill him. He left and went to Arabia where he stayed for 3 years. Arriving back in Jerusalem around 36AD. While not much is written concerning what happened during those 3 years Paul does tell us that he was taught things in the spirit.

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

So lets go by your plan RICO - Ordain them after 5 days... gotta love it

Re: It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Minist
 

Bzzzzzzzzzzz! Not what I said. Every person is different, so every case needs to be handles differently. Don't put words into my mouth.