Psychology: Science or Religion?
 

Worldliness has taken hold of the Church in North America in so many ways - so much so that there is no significant statistical difference between the world and the Church with regard to such things as the percentage of divorces. Worldly philosophies such as evolution and psychology have established strongholds. Consequently, it is not unusual to hear preachers proclaim that the Creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally and it is not unusual for the Church to hire practitioners of psychology to do what pastors, elders and more mature saints should be doing - and relying on psychological theories to explain human behavior instead of relying on the word of God. Worldliness has taken such a strong hold of the Church today that the vast majority of Christians unquestioningly accept "science" as absolute truth - even though the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is THE truth (and not one truth among many).

So, getting back to psychology, is it science or is it religion? The article linked here contains some interesting information (Psychology - Science or Religion):

FOUR MYTHS ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY

Among professing Christians, there are four major myths about psychology which have become entrenched in the Church:

The first major myth is common to Christians and non-Christians alike: that psychotherapy (psychological counseling along with its theories and techniques) is a science -- a means of understanding and helping humanity based on empirical evidence gleaned from measurable and consistent data.

The second major myth is that the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible. Psychologists who also claim to be Christians generally claim that they are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology.

The third major myth is that people who are experiencing mental-emotional behavioral problems are mentally ill. They are supposedly psychologically sick and, therefore, need psychological therapy. The common argument is that the doctor treats the body, the minister treats the spirit, and the psychologist treats the mind and emotions. Ministers, unless they are trained in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, are then supposedly unqualified to help people who are suffering from serious problems of living.

The fourth major myth is that psychotherapy has a high record of success -- that professional psychological counseling produces greater results than other forms of help, such as self-help or that provided by family, friends, or pastors. Thus, psychological counseling is seen as more effective than Biblical counseling in helping some Christians. This is one of the main reasons why so many professing Christians are training to become psychotherapists.

IS PSYCHOLOGY A SCIENCE?

Men and women of God seek wisdom and knowledge from both the revelation of Scripture and the physical world. Paul contends that everyone is accountable before God because of the evidence that creation gives of His existence (Rom. 1:20).

Scientific study is a valid way of coming to an understanding of God's work, and can be very useful in many walks of life.

True science develops theories based on what is observed. It examines each theory with rigorous tests to see if it describes reality. The scientific method works well in observing and recording physical data and in reaching conclusions which either confirm or nullify a theory.

During the mid-19th century, scholars (philosophers, really) desired to study human nature in the hope of applying the scientific method to observe, record, and treat human behavior. They believed that if people could be studied in a scientific manner, there would be greater accuracy in understanding present behavior, in predicting future behavior, and in altering behavior through scientific intervention.

Psychology, and its active arm of psychotherapy, have indeed adopted the scientific posture. However, from a strictly scientific point of view, they have not been able to meet the requirements of true science.

...

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. World-renowned research psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey is very blunt when he says:

"The techniques used by Western psychiatrists are, with few exceptions, on exactly the same scientific plane as the techniques used by witch doctors."

PSYCHOLOGY AS RELIGION

Explanations of why people behave the way they do and how they change have concerned philosophers, theologians, cultists, and occultists throughout the centuries. These explanations form the basis of modern psychology. Yet psychology deals with the very same areas of concern already dealt with in Scripture.

Since God's Word tells us how to live, all ideas about the why's of behavior and the how's of change must be viewed as religious in nature. Whereas the Bible claims divine revelation, psychotherapy claims scientific substantiation. Nevertheless, when it comes to behavior and attitudes, and morals and values, we are dealing with religion -- either the Christian faith or any one of a number of other religions, including secular humanism.

Repudiating the God of the Bible, both Freud and Jung led their followers in the quest for alternative understandings of mankind and alternative solutions to problems of living. They turned inward to their own limited imaginations and viewed their subjects from their own anti-Christian subjectivity.

The faith once delivered to the saints was displaced by a substitute faith disguising itself as medicine or science, but based upon foundations which are in direct contradiction to the Bible.

Psychiatrist Thomas Szasz, in his 1978 book The Myth of Psychotherapy, says, "The basic ingredients of psychotherapy does not always involve repression." He points out that while psychotherapy does not always involve repression, it does always involve religion and rhetoric (conversation). Szasz says very strongly that "the human relations we now call 'psychotherapy,' are, in fact, matters of religion -- and that we mislabel them as 'therapeutic' at great risk to our spiritual well-being." Elsewhere, in referring to psychotherapy as a religion, Szasz says:

"It is not merely a religion that pretends to be a science, it is actually a fake religion that seeks to destroy true religion."

Szasz also says that "psychotherapy is a modern, scientific-sounding name for what used to be called the 'cure of souls.'" One of his primary purposes for writing The Myth of Psychotherapy was:

"... to show how, with the decline of religion and the growth of science in the eighteenth century, the cure of (sinful) souls, which had been an integral part of the Christian religions, was recast as the cure of (sick) minds, and became an integral part of medicine."

The cure of souls, which once was a vital ministry of the Church, has now in this century been displaced by a cure of minds called "psychotherapy." True "Biblical" counseling has waned until presently it is almost nonexistent.

...

PSYCHOLOGY PLUS THE BIBLE

The Church has not escaped the all-pervasive influence of psychotherapy. It has unwittingly and eagerly embraced the pseudoscientisms of psychotherapy and has intimately incorporated this spectre into the very sinew of its life. Not only does the Church include the concepts and teachings of psychotherapists in sermons and seminaries, it steps aside and entrusts the mentally and emotionally halt and lame to the "high altar" of psychotherapy.

Many Church leaders contend that the Church doesn't have the ability to meet the needs of people suffering from depression, anxiety, fear, and other problems of living. They, therefore, trust the paid practitioners of the pseudoscientisms of psychotherapy more than they trust the Word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Because of the confusion between science and pseudoscience, Church leaders have elevated the psychotherapist to a position of authority in the modern Church. Thus, any attack on the amalgamation of psychotherapy and Christianity is considered to be an attack on the Church itself.

Although the Church has almost universally accepted and endorsed the psychological way, there are Christians who have not. Dr. Jay E. Adams says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

Psychotherapy is a most subtle and devious spectre haunting the Church, because it is perceived and received as a scientific salve for the sick soul, rather than for what it truly is: a pseudoscientific substitute system of religious belief.

The early Church faced and ministered to mental-emotional-behavioral problems which were as complex as the ones that exist today. If anything, the conditions of the early Church were more difficult than those we currently face. The early Christians suffered persecution, poverty, and various afflictions which are foreign to most of the twentieth-century Christendom (especially in the West). The catacombs of Rome are a testimony to the extent of the problems faced by the early Church.

FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION:

http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/psychology_christianity

http://www.psychologydebunked.com/

:wacko :crazy :woot I took psychology and philosophy at the same time in college, boy was my head spinning!

I have studied the Bible and psychology (to a lesser degree) for over 30 yrs. I have read psychological stuff that, IMO, bordered on New Age philosophies.

I have found that basic psychology has a place in the body of Christ as it relates to understanding personality types, marriage counselling etc. I have not found any descrepencies between biblical principles and basic human psychology. I do not think that Freud and Jung are the definitive people to follow either.

I disagree with myth 2 & 3 and believe that they are true, due to my own personal experiences as a Sr. Pastor for over 20yrs. I do not rely on psychology to help solve people's problem, but it has proved a helpful tool in understanding people's perspectives.

Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.

I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and why they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank). :)

I BET!!!

you are right. SHO CAN!

So, why would you defile the temple of God by bringing such falsehoods into the Church?

Worldly philosophies have no place whatsoever in the Church.

There is nothing helpful about wicked worldly philosophies. Such philosophies are part of what John referred to as "the world" when he said in his first epistle "love not the world..."

No, psychology is not just basically the study of human nature. The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. Thus, psychology is a study of human nature based on ungodly world views. Note what Dr. Jay E. Adams, author of such books as Competent to Counsel, says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with psychology. Solomon's wisdom came from God. Psychology is a form of worldly so-called "wisdom" and has no place in the Church.

The point I was making is that psychology is basically the study of human nature and behavior and why people act like they do.

Solomon had lots of understanding and knowledge in regard to this that didn't come from the study of psychology. His wisdom, knowledge and understanding came basically from a knowledge and understanding of God and from God.

The same understanding is available for us from God if we seek Him and ask Him for His counsel and wisdom and knowledge. :thumbsup

It's fairly simple really. :)

I know that was your point but your point is inaccurate because psychology is not mere unbiased study of human behavior, nature, etc., it has its basis in worldly philosophies or world views.

Yes, and I said that Solomon's wisdom came from God. However, it came from God supernaturally and not as mere innate ability. We agree that it did not come from psychology and, thus, we must make sure to separate what comes from God and what comes from the world.

Yes, but not through psychology or other worldly philosophies.

I understand that but it's still basically the study of human nature, human behavior ..... why people act like they do.

I didn't say it came from mere innate ability. I said it came basically from God!

You're just repeating what I said. LOL. :)

:ty

If the gifts are allowed to operate in the church less counseling is needed.
I don't care for personality studies.People come to God and change.They
get healed,they repent etc.More times than any deliverance is needed than
counseling.The problem with people is they want Rome built in a day.They
want instant mashed potatoes rather than the good old fashioned homemade
kind that take time and effort.It takes Jesus to fix a broken heart and save a lost soul.I don't discredit anyones efforts but I would rather skip the psychological approach when dealing with souls.

Actually the point I was really trying to make is ........

We don't need to study "psychology" in order to understand human nature and what makes people tick. This knowledge can be learned through experience, observation, the Word of God and the Spirit of God as He shares His wisdom and knowledge with us.

God bless you!

But that is the deception of psychology: they want us to believe that it is just "basically the study of human nature, human behavior....why people act like they do" but that really is not the case. Rather, it is the an attempt to put forth worldly philosophies as truth.

No, it didn't come "basically" from God (as if there was some part of it that maybe didn't), it DID come from God. However, there is a difference between God giving someone innate ability (what we might call "talent") and God doing something utterly supernatural as He did in Solomon's case.

Repeated for emphasis.

Thanks for making that clear. Of course, I would take it even further and say that not only do we not need to study psychology, we should consider that worldly philosophy part of that enemy of God that John called "the world" when he said "love not the world..."

In another thread, a certain individual was trying to present her worldly philosophy/false religion (psychology) as truth. I provided what I believe are scriptural challenges to what she was saying. Naturally, I was accused of trying to shut the individual's thread down (which I have no desire to do). This post is not about the individual but about the worldly philosophy/false religion of which she is a practitioner. I want to make it clear that I have no animus toward this particular individual - toward her worldly philosophy/false religion, yes but not toward her as a person or, more important, as a sister in Christ. Below is the post in question and my response to it.

My response (admittedly, my use of the phrase "wicked worldly philosophy" may be interpreted as harsh; however, all worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world and not of God):
There is no place for worldy philosophies and false religion in the Church. Psychology has deceived people (including Christians) into thinking it is the sole arbiter of things pertaining to the mind and soul of humans - much the way "science" has deceived people into thinking it is the sole arbiter of knowledge and that nothing is true if science cannot prove it. What was once the sin-sick soul "treated" by the Church has become "mental illness" treated with psychotherapy and/or medication.

Psychology is a cult and its practitioners are preaching a false gospel.

It is your opinion about "defiling" God's temples. I said that there are things that borderline New Age. I don't adhere to those things. I really don't adhere to psychology, but I have studied enough of it to see its benefits and pit falls.

I agree. We may disagree as to what those are.

I agree, which is why I won't subscribe to the wicked, worldly philosophies. I can take the meat the throw away the bones. Everyone does. So do you. You are well versed in church history and other areas which are not found in the Bible. Yet, they have something to teach us and are not contrary to scripture.

But that's just it, there is nothing in psychology - or any worldly philosophy - that can ever be of benefit to the Church. Wordly philosophies are part of what is meant by the world being one of our enemies.



A worldly philosophy is any philosophy that is derived not from God's word but, instead, from mere human ideas. Think of it as that which Paul referred to as worldly wisdom.



All worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world. History is not a philosophy, it is a mere regurgitation of past events. There is nothing that any worldly philosophy can ever teach the people of God.

That is your opinion and I disagree with it.

That is your opinion and I disagree with it.

Once again, that is your opinion and I disagree with it.

You thinking reminds of the Greeks who thought that EVERYTHING that was not of the Spirit was evil.

Psychology in any particular facet is not a horrid thing. Understanding human or animal behavior will cause no harm; however, the use of said understanding, or the applied perception thereof, could very well be. As long one remains within Biblical boundaries concerning any given understanding of psychology, what harm could come of it?

It doesn't matter whether harm comes of it or not. Chan seems to have an aversion to even a remote possibility that it might, maybe, could help someone in some way. At least that is the way it seems to me.

If you want to get technical. Psychology is the scientific study of mental processes and behaviour. Psychologists observe and record how people and other animals relate to one another and to the environment. They look for patterns that will help them understand and predict behaviour, and they use scientific methods to test their ideas. Through such studies, psychologists have learned much that can help people fulfill their potential as human beings and increase understanding between individuals, groups, nations, and cultures.

Psychology is a broad field that explores a variety of questions about thoughts, feelings, and actions. Psychologists ask such questions as: "How do we see, hear, smell, taste, and feel? What enables us to learn, think, and remember, and why do we forget? What activities distinguish human beings from other animals? What abilities are we born with, and which must we learn? How much does the mind affect the body, and how does the body affect the mind? For example, can we change our heart rate or temperature just by thinking about doing so? What can our dreams tell us about our needs, wishes, and desires? Why do we like the people we like? Why are some people bashful and others not shy at all? What causes violence? What is mental illness, and how can it be cured?"

The research findings of psychologists have greatly increased our understanding of why people behave as they do. For example, psychologists have discovered much about how personality develops and how to promote healthy development. They have some knowledge of how to help people change bad habits and how to help students learn. They understand some of the conditions that can make workers more productive. A great deal remains to be discovered. Nevertheless, insights provided by psychology can help people function better as individuals, friends, family members, and workers.

Sorry I got carried away. I have a psychology degree. So I sorta know this area! lol :heeheehee

There can be no real understanding of behavior when that "understanding" is based on worldly philosophies.

Again, the actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. Thus, psychology is a study of human nature based on ungodly world views. Note what Dr. Jay E. Adams, author of such books as Competent to Counsel, says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

Obviously, I agree with Dr. Adams on this point.

So, the only way anyone can know about the evils of worldly philosophies is by getting a degree in that worldly philosophy? I wonder what worldly philosophies Paul had a degree in when he said under the authority of the Holy Spirit, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness" (1 Cor. 3:19).

FOUR MYTHS ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY

Among professing Christians, there are four major myths about psychology which have become entrenched in the Church:

The first major myth is common to Christians and non-Christians alike: that psychotherapy (psychological counseling along with its theories and techniques) is a science -- a means of understanding and helping humanity based on empirical evidence gleaned from measurable and consistent data.

The second major myth is that the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible. Psychologists who also claim to be Christians generally claim that they are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology.

The third major myth is that people who are experiencing mental-emotional behavioral problems are mentally ill. They are supposedly psychologically sick and, therefore, need psychological therapy. The common argument is that the doctor treats the body, the minister treats the spirit, and the psychologist treats the mind and emotions. Ministers, unless they are trained in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, are then supposedly unqualified to help people who are suffering from serious problems of living.

The fourth major myth is that psychotherapy has a high record of success -- that professional psychological counseling produces greater results than other forms of help, such as self-help or that provided by family, friends, or pastors. Thus, psychological counseling is seen as more effective than Biblical counseling in helping some Christians. This is one of the main reasons why so many professing Christians are training to become psychotherapists.

IS PSYCHOLOGY A SCIENCE?

Men and women of God seek wisdom and knowledge from both the revelation of Scripture and the physical world. Paul contends that everyone is accountable before God because of the evidence that creation gives of His existence (Rom. 1:20).

Scientific study is a valid way of coming to an understanding of God's work, and can be very useful in many walks of life.

True science develops theories based on what is observed. It examines each theory with rigorous tests to see if it describes reality. The scientific method works well in observing and recording physical data and in reaching conclusions which either confirm or nullify a theory.

During the mid-19th century, scholars (philosophers, really) desired to study human nature in the hope of applying the scientific method to observe, record, and treat human behavior. They believed that if people could be studied in a scientific manner, there would be greater accuracy in understanding present behavior, in predicting future behavior, and in altering behavior through scientific intervention.

Psychology, and its active arm of psychotherapy, have indeed adopted the scientific posture. However, from a strictly scientific point of view, they have not been able to meet the requirements of true science.

...

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. World-renowned research psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey is very blunt when he says:

"The techniques used by Western psychiatrists are, with few exceptions, on exactly the same scientific plane as the techniques used by witch doctors."

My aversion to it is that it is a wordly philosophy and, as such, it has no place in the Church.

Any philosophy (a form of "wisdom") that is not of God is of the world and is, therefore, evil.

why do you think psychology is worldy?

i dont know who you have been talking to, but i know of NO CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGIST that thinks this way!


where did you get these myths from?

does your pastor do any counsiling?

Counseling and psychology are 2 vastly different things. They start with 2 completely different axioms.

Because it is not based in the truths of God's word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaGirl (Post 13861) i dont know who you have been talking to, but i know of NO CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGIST that thinks this way!

Our own Rhoni (among others) has suggested (in another forum) that (to quote what you highlighted from my post) "the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible." and has suggested that she and those in her field (again quoting the section of my post you highlighted) "are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology."

By the way, just because you don't know of any Christian psychologist that thinks this way does not negate it, particularly since I doubt you know every Christian psychologist or even the majority of Christian psychologists. Then, of course, there are those who are not psychologists but who are psychotherapists.

Your question is not relevant: there is no such thing as "counsiling." There is, however, such a thing as "counseling." Are you suggesting that all the "counselors" mentioned in the Bible were psychologists or psychiatrists? Do you think that the prophet, in referring to Jesus as the Counselor, meant that Jesus would become a psychiatrist or psychologist?

So many questions are answered DIRECTLY by Scripture and if not directly it is answered by applied principles. Trouble is that we have to do our homework and study for some answers....we don't want to do that.

There is counseling ministry available to all saints not just pastors for ministry if you feel called in this area you can be trained.You can check it out at
www.awpministries.org

BTW Brother Chan they also welcome men to the seminars.Its not just for women.
I think you would approve of the training and sources used.

I personally think that the church as a whole needs to have some form of understanding Psychology. God made each one of us different. I just found out not to long ago that I have a Medical Condition that is very hard to detect at times. And my medical condition is Genetic, but it can also come from other things that happen to us. I hope Rhoni sees this Thred.

Heaven forbid that we should actually STUDY the word of God and let God's Spirit actually lead us into all truth!

What you said is exactly the problem: we don't want to look to the word of God ourselves. We want others to do the work for us. We want others to tell us why we do the things we do or feel the things we feel. We want answers that don't require us to take responsibility. We want to be made to feel good about ourselves in all our circumstances. We don't want the light of God's word shining into the deepest recesses of our hearts.

"Men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil."

No, we don't need to have some understanding of that wicked worldly philosophy called "psychology." We need a thorough understanding of God and His word.

Chan,
You can have your opinion I will have mine. The Lord made the Mind and we need people that can understand it. I know you would blast my statement that is why I will not mention what I have. I would help the Pastors in the World to help understand people more if they had some kind of course taken in Psychology. What I have is Genetic and is a medical condition but people would blast me if I said what I have. So many people would think that I am weak but I have a very strong faith in God. I used to sing in the church choir teach sunday school and do other things, but since my medical condition I have not been able to do that. Do I look different no I just have a medical condition that has to be treated with Medicine and Therapy. And I need lots of patience from people and kindness and support.

Understand it, yes; but understand according to the word of God and not according to the theories of some wicked worldly philosophy like psychology.