No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

I Corinthians 12:3 says that no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

How do you intepret this passage? Some say that this means that unless you have received the Holy Spirit, with speaking in tongues as evidence, you can't really say that Jesus is Lord. Others say that if one says "Jesus is Lord" that is proof and evidence that one is filled with the Holy Spirit.

What is your opinion?

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

I see it as similar to when Jesus said they that worship Him must do so in spirit and truth. It speaks to the genuine nature of the worship. There really can be no pretension because the Holy Spirit knows the heart (aka spirit/inner man).

No one can REALLY say "Jesus is Lord" unless the fact is verified inwardly by and through the Holy Spirit.

It really cannot mean speaking in tongues because both saying Jesus is Lord and speaking in tongues can be mouthed without it truly being so.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

It is not saying.... guess what Mr. Atheist... I bet you can't say this 3 worded phrase. While he stumbles over his Words and stutters. Many will come saying Lord Lord.... The point is nobody can declare Jesus is Master,Lord, supreme authority in there life except by the working power of the Spirit in there lives. The Spirit gives you power to overcome by responding and trusting in him which declares Christ Lord or master. Thus without God you cannot say he is Lord of your life without the influentual power of the HS. We don't do it on our own but it is a synergistic work in which the ultimate point is without God we fail.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

In the Aramaic Peshitta version of scripture the verse says No one can say Jesus is MARYAH except by the Holy Spirit.

MARYAH is Aramaic for "Master YAH".

That would seem to be pointing to the deity of Jesus Christ.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

I guess that Mar would mean "Lord/Master/Sovereign/Sir/Mister" and YAH would be an abbreviation for what we call YHWH or Jehovah, or Yahweh, or the tetragrammaton, God's covenant name of Exodus 3:6, 13-16 and 6:1-4?

I like that.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

No other verse makes clear that the working of the Spirit is evident at the coming to faith, in the very beginning. This matches with John 3 and being born again. The indwelled presence at faith in God is at work to bring a person to confession. Confession is the external, audible way of expressing the internal faith.

There's no minimizing an understanding of the role of the Spirit at work in conversion, and simultaneously (if these can be broken down even), regeneration.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

The point here is the gifts of the Spirit and their use and abuse.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

I believe the key to understanding this verse is in the context. Its says, "no man SPEAKING BY THE SPIRIT" can say Jesus is Lord and, when speaking by the Spirit will curse Jesus.
When one speaks out of their heart, by the Holy Spirit, they will speak of the lordship of Jesus and will not curse him.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

A suggestion

Maybe Paul was dealing with false teachers in Corinth that were claiming, by the Spirit, that Jesus is not LORD. IF it was their purpose to derail the truth they would not dare say "Jesus is LORD" at all, so you know when the gifts were in operation and someone says Jesus is LORD, you knew it was not a false teacher

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

Actually it does not say "no man speaking by the Spirit can say Jesus is Lord"..

It says no man can say Jesus is Lord EXCEPT by the Spirit

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

It is only through the Spirit that a person can honestly say, “Jesus is Lord.” A sneering sinner may mouth the words, but he is not giving a true confession. (Perhaps Paul was referring to things they had said when influenced by the demons prior to conversion.) It is important to note that the believer is always in control of himself when the Holy Spirit is at work (1 Cor. 14:32) because Jesus Christ the Lord is in charge. Any so-called “Spirit manifestation” that robs a person of self-control is not of God; for “the fruit of the Spirit is … self-control” (Gal. 5:22–23, NASB).
Wiersbe, W. W. (1996). The Bible exposition commentary. Wheaton, Ill.: Victor Books.

The Bible Exposition Commentary

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

12:3 “no one speaking by the Spirit of God” This is a Hebrew idiom for inspiration (cf. I Sam. 10:10; 19:23–24). This reminds believers that not everyone who claims to speak for God actually does so. Every believer must evaluate those who claim to speak God’s message (cf. 12:10; I John 4:1–3).
Utley, R. J. D. (2002). Vol. Volume 6: Paul's Letters to a Troubled Church: I and II Corinthians. Study Guide Commentary Series (140). Marshall, Texas: Bible Lessons International.

This is a shocking statement. Why would anyone who claims to speak for God say this? The term (anathema) itself had an OT background (Hebrew, herem). It related to the concept of Holy War, where a city was devoted to God and, therefore, it became holy. This meant that everything in it that breathed, man or animal, had to die (cf. Josh. 6:17; 7:12).

The theories of how this term was used in Corinth are (1) that it has a Jewish setting relating to the synagogue oaths (cf. Acts 26:11. Later, rabbinical curse formulas were used to remove Christians from the synagogue). To remain a member one had to reject or curse Jesus of Nazareth; (2) that it has a Roman setting relating to Emperor worship where only Caesar could be called “Lord”; (3) that it has a pagan worship setting where the curses were called on people by the use of a god’s name. This could then be translated, “May Jesus curse ______” (cf. 16:22); or (4) that someone related the phrase to the theological concept of Jesus bearing the OT curse for us (cf. Deut. 21:23; Gal. 3:13).

Recent studies from Corinth (cf. footnote #1 on p. 164 of Bruce Winter’s After Paul Left Corinth) document the curse tablets found on the ancient acropolis at Corinth. Biblical scholars have assumed that a linking verb “is” should be provided in the phrase, “Jesus is accursed,” but this archaeological evidence clearly shows that these first century Roman period curses from Corinth lack the verb (as do some of the curses in the LXX of Deut. 22:15–20), as does v. 3. There is further archaeological evidence that Christians in first century Roman Corinth used curse formulas in burial curses (Bysantine period) found on Christian graves (J. H. Kent, The Inscriptions, 1926–50. Princeton: American School of Classical Studies, 1966, vol. 8:3, no. 644).

Some segments of the church were reverting to pagan curses in Jesus’ name against other members of the church. Not only is the method a problem, but also the hateful motive. This is another example of the tension within this church. Paul wants them to build up the church, edify the church. They want to curse part of the church!

“Jesus is Lord” This was the early church’s confession of faith (cf. Rom. 10:9–13; Phil. 2:11). It was a way of affirming Jesus’ deity and Messiahship.

“except by the Holy Spirit” The Holy Spirit’s task is to convict the world of sin and draw people to Christ (cf. John 16:8–14). No fallen humans can turn to God or Christ unaided (cf. John 6:44, 65). This is the mystery of a sovereign God who loves all humanity made in His image yet His covenant mandate is that they must respond (and continue to respond) in repentance, faith, obedience, service, and perseverance!
Utley, R. J. D. (2002). Vol. Volume 6: Paul's Letters to a Troubled Church: I and II Corinthians. Study Guide Commentary Series (141). Marshall, Texas: Bible Lessons International.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

Can I ask where you found this? I have the Aramaic Peshitta and it's impossible to read, not like Hebrew, but where I found the word for Lord my Aramaic dictionary says it means Master or Lord, if it was the Divine name wouldn't it say that?

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

In the context of the speaking "gifts" (ie:when someone is speaking by the Holy Spirit such as in prophecy, interpretation of tongues, tongues, etc) you will be able to discern if someone is speaking by the Holy Spirit or by a demon. If a demon is speaking to the church through a person and trying to deceive the saints, he will not be able to confess that Jesus is Lord.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

Here is one place I have seen others.

http://aramaicnttruth.org/downloads/...aryahAlaha.pdf

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

A little paraphrase of Fee:

Vs. 3's "therefore" ties back to the beginning of v1 "I do not want you to be ignorant." So it's... I don't want you to be ignorant, then he tells them, then continues to set his point -- therefore...

"Since I do not want you to be ignorant about the things of the Spirit, and since yo have already known about inspired utterances as pagans, I make known to you what follows."

Whatever the meaning of v3, it lies in the general context of Paul's correction of their inordinate enthusiasm for the gift of tongues.

It's doesn't seem to add up that someone would speak in tongues, or in the spirit, and actually curse Jesus. That doesn't even sound feasible, so we must look into what Paul was intending.

ideas:
1) No one in the assembly actually said anything, and this is a hypothetical alternative of v2.
problem: Jesus is/be cursed sounds like a formulaic curse

2) or maybe some inspired in the Spirit were saying non-Christian things, even demonic things. Paul is helping them see the difference between spirit and the Spirit, between "inspired utterance" and that which is truly of the Spirit of God.
So... it is not tongues that is the evidence of the Spirit's activity, but the intelligible, Jesus-exalting content of such activity.

So, it's not an easy thing to understand and interpreters struggle with it.

As to someone having an atheists say "Jesus is LORD" as example, only proves how far removed some of us are from the radical nature of confession for the earliest Christians.
They are no longer "led about and carried away" to mute idols, bt not possessed by the Spirit of the living God, which is leading them to confession. Only one who has the Spirit can truly make such a confession because only the Spirit can reveal its reality.

Bottom line: power and gifts are not the real evidence of the Spirit's presence. Not so for Paul at least. The ultimate criterion of the Spirit's activity is the exaltation of Jesus as LORD. Whatever takes away from that, even if they be a legitimate expression of the Spirit, begins to move away form Christ to a more pagan fascination with spiritual activity as an end in itself.

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

I couldn't agree more!!

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

I got a question. In Matthew 7:21 Jesus said:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Were the people in this verse saying Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit?

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

so were they ful of the devil useing them in the upper room ?? they sure were out of control ..drunk men talking in language they didnt even know . happened several more times in the bible //

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

Amen

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

:dunnoWhat is your question?

Re: No One Can Say Jesus is Lord Except By HS
 

If one really gets a revelation about who Jesus really is according to the bible,The Holy Spirit has to reveal truth to one,because true revelation knowledge comes from The Spirit of God.