My Experience
 

After tirelessly reading so many threads which appear to me to be from various points of view, I've come to this conclusion: the organization seems to be filled with so much confusion, turmoil, and politics...all the while, IMO, God is sitting back wondering when "His" people will get it right.

I am simply stating what's on my mind, not only based on various threads here on AFF, but also from past experiences. So, my responses are genuine and should be taken in such fashion. In no way am I trying to convey a message or spirit of division; simply put, I would hope others who have been in my shoes and are searching for the truth (who don't claim they've found it, yet) would speak up. Of course, others who have "found it" and are firmly devoted to the organization are more than welcome to speak up as well. No worries, I won't be using anyone's initials out of respect for privacy.

I've been under the voice of Pentecostal preaching for about 10 years now. Prior to, I went where ever my parents decided to go for a short spell. Needless to say, I've been to a number of churches and heard a wide spectrum of preaching styles and messages. Overall, I like the lively, more fired-up preaching/teaching and music. So, I should fit well into the Pentecostal faith, right?

My journey began when I received the Holy Ghost, got baptised in Jesus' name, and started learning so much more about the Word than I had before. Talk about missing out! I was missing out on a lot. From a non-UPCI church to one that was affiliated, things took a noticeable turn toward what I thought was better at the time. I "cleaned up" in more ways than one -- got rid of "unacceptable" music and my TV, quit going to certain places that were told to me to be contradicting the Christian walk, left the friends I knew for all of my life, etc. It all happened so fast, there was no time for me to question anything; I thought all was going well.

Little did I know the damage it was causing for my own flesh and blood (parents/grandparents), and those friends of mine I knew for well-longer than the people I just got started knowing at the church. Being questioned on what I was getting myself into, why I stopped listening to my "music" (even though country music isn't all that influential for me, as it may have been for others), why I stopped watching TV, etc. So many questions that the only answer I had was "Well, I just don't believe in that." It didn't take long before tensions and numerous arguments began, which eventually lead to me being kicked out of my home.

Prior to being kicked out, I was already exploring the idea of moving closer to the church to become more involved. An opportunity came up for me to move, but my folks reacted much worse and much sooner than I expected. From that point on, one thing lead to another. More arguments and tension, long periods of not speaking to one another. Come wedding time, things appeared to be fine. More arguments and tension. Come time for children to be born, more arguments and tension. All of this while living under the doctrine of separation and, as I realized much later, near isolation.

Situations occurred later on down the road, including a change in pastorship, then later the opportunity to move back closer to home and family. Additionally, moving back home allowed me to be part of a church that is still affiliated with the organization but is far from preaching the UPCI's definition of standards and holiness.

Granted God blessed me while under the organizational preaching, I realize it took me walking so treacherously in that chapter of my life in order for me to see where I've been and where I am now. The people I'm around now certainly do not fit the organization's guidelines as a Christian. However, they are far more genuine and sincere than many I've seen who are strictly involved with the organization and hold so dearly its truth.

God has blessed me far beyond what I'm remotely worthy of and poured out layer upon layer of mercy and grace. I'm not disguising myself as something I'm not. Situations that I will not mention on here allowed me to see the plasticity that is spewed from the actions of so many people who are so devoted to living under the organization's strict demands and commands, yet while away from the "chosen few" pull stunts that the organziation would label as backslidden.

As a result of my life's story over the past 10 years, I've come to this realization: God is the ultimate Judge and Author of salvation, Giver of grace and mercy, and ultimately the One who will forgive me for things I fall short of according to Him, not man.

An organization whose reputation is that of confusion, turmoil, and politics I would hope one day can sit down and analyze trends to see where they have fallen short. IMO, instead of preaching so firmly on don't do this, don't do that, I can clearly see the difference when preaching is centered around reaching out to people who have no idea where to begin. Preaching 10,000 commandments instead of the original 10 is, apparently, leaving a very bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, including my own.

This is my story, this is my song. As I said, my responses are genuine and should be taken in such fashion. Let the responses come. Hopefully, the Admins won't consider this anything other than a testimony of where God has lead me from and where He's leading me now.

Re: My Experience
 

Nothingwrong with giving up things in our lives such as ungodly music, tv etc....but our attitude or manner in doing things can the problem.

Re: My Experience
 

@Truthsseeker, believe me...my attitude was "Hey, I'm all for what's right and will get me to Heaven." But, then again, I was going from one extreme to another at the time. I've learved, after the fact, just doing that (going from one extreme to another) can cause so much damage, I don't think it could be repaired; if it could, it would take a life long process to do so. God's the same as He was before I knew Him, and I feel He knows where I'm at and what's best for me since I've gotten to know Him and what He's all about, even after pulling away from the extremism. It's all about balance, IMO.

Re: My Experience
 

Your story sounds very similar to mine - only my "extremist" separation came about 25 years ago when I was 18 (and put an irreparable distance between my parents and me), and continued for over 20 years before God started to speak to me and opened my eyes to a lot of inconsistencies.

I'll be praying for you. It's a journey of faith, no doubt. We all just need to be careful that we don't swing to the other extreme. God bless!

Re: My Experience
 

I am always baffled when people mention "the organization". I have attended several different churches in several parts of the country, due to moving. I always focused on my local church as opposed to "the organization". The organization did not seem to have much influence on me. Certainly not as much influence as my local pastor or church.
Therefore, I am always baffled when the organization is blamed.
I too have noticed people being "fake" or "plastic", but I am not sure how "the organization" has anything to do with that. I have ran into plenty of fakes from other organizations.
Glad to hear that you are in a place where you feel better now.

Re: My Experience
 

Your 'song' is very familiar to many here. Thank you for sharing.

Re: My Experience
 

Your experience sounds familiar, it comes close to my own.

I did the blind obedience to the rules in the beginning which nearly cost me my marraige, my family and friends.

God sees these things, He knows the heart and all the surrounding issues we face in and out of any church.

I've found God to be more faithful then I could have possibly imagined. Just as it sounds you have.

Keep looking to Him, "trusting Him with all your heart and leaning not on your own understanding".

Re: My Experience
 

Your story is very similar to mine, too.

Re: My Experience
 

Bingo !

Re: My Experience
 

"balance" is subjective, God hasn't said anything about balance. "what saith the lord" is what counts. Problem being what he said and what we think he said.

Sometimes true discipleship can cost us friends, family etc...... Just like Jesus said it could, but let it be because of true righteousness sake and not self righteouss atttitude or loveless presentation of our stance.

Re: My Experience
 

I couldnt get past this part.... you read threads on AFF and decided "the organization" is filled with confusion...

which organization? AFF? it aint.

PS the folks on this board are from about as many "organizations" as their are ants in a fireant bed.

Re: My Experience
 

Believe it or not, I was waiting on a Ferd post. And you didn't let me down :)

Re: My Experience
 

thank you... I will be here all week.

donations can be left with pay pal.

Re: My Experience
 

Organized Faith always draws people into a forged view of God that is false. The most formative reason for this is the lack of contrast. Where and when we are born, raised, and taught, these all blend to produce our final thoughts about God. Our parents then shelter us from outside philosophy and culture which may threaten the “Mold”, where fear dominates. For some, they never escape their civilized Church dilemma. Others though, who are willing to venture into uncharted waters, well, they will FIND! They will discover! They will FEEL! Contrast will weigh in the balance, and our hearts can be illuminated with what we were afraid to admit. Fear will keep some back for a season, but many can’t be harnessed another day in Tradition; there has to be more!

Jesus also addressed this issue directly and indirectly, and not even Chosen Israel could escape the bars of a prisoned idea without an absolute awakening. Look how Paul marched in “God’s Will”, only to find he was a murderer and a man blanched with no mercy. His destiny was changed on a ROAD, not a Church, and the contrast of his life leveled his Religious statement of belief forever. He realized he was wrong.

We drift towards concepts that bend into what we believe, going so far as to protect a lie. This has snared every generation known to this Planet, and God is fully aware of this weakness which causes us to fall into Religion’s trap of “Right”. I believe God’s mercy extends to those who are in and outside of this trap. The blood of Calvary is far reaching, filling into the lives of our failed ability to truly understand our Creator.

Most will admit, when we are young we are vulnerable to the influence of people who’ve supposedly connected to God. Loneliness, heartbreak, financial struggle, these and much more can lead the young into the arms of others who’ve plowed through Heavens door and into God’s personal network of a select few, or so they think. After time, we begin to see that people are people and that the World is overrun by more Religious dogma than we ever imagined. As metamorphosis sets in, the caterpillar becomes a butterfly, and the view from above can shake us to the core.

We begin to see the real prisons and the real snares. Love draws us into a compassion we never knew before. We no longer draw from the well of other peoples experiences, we now have our own.

The defining moment for many is when they begin to understand that no matter what Faith you belong to, they ALL conclude to know what the Bible means or says. If we continue to hunker down in our hole of Organized Faith, the illusion of “US” being saved will continue to grow. If we dare come out, what we will SEE can change our lives forever.

God must rest on the most personal level of our life, and for this to happen the chains of what everyone else thinks or believes must be broken. We must go up into the mountain like Moses or Elijah, and experience God for ourselves, by ourselves, with no one breathing down our neck with another revelation. I can’t do it for someone. You can’t do it for someone. They must do it themselves, and they must admit the gut honest truth about what is really going on down here.

Re: My Experience
 

What organization?

Very few people here belong to the same organization so this is a rather vague reference here

Re: My Experience
 

Hey Indy, Welcome to the finest Oneness Pentecostal/Apostolic social media site on the net!

Amen to rejecting extremism!

Glad to hear from you, and hope you enjoy.

Re: My Experience
 

Been there, done that, glad I escaped!

Re: My Experience
 

Extremism? Yeah it does not sound like a lot of fun.

I have lived what some would think is extreme... horse & buggy for transportation etc., but theologically I have never ventured there.

I find it strange when folks think they are the apple of God's eye while all other Christians are drival and dreck. :jolly

Re: My Experience
 

NFS - would you not say that what Paul did was to organize the faith?

Re: My Experience
 

I thought paypal isn't allowed to send money to terrorist.j/k

Re: My Experience
 

@Truthseeker, okay maybe balance is subjective in your situation. However, our moderation is to be known among men, which is stated in the Bible. So, for me moderation and balance work together, hand in hand.

Re: My Experience
 

Unless they're right, of course. :heeheehee

Re: My Experience
 

The Organization I'm referring to is the UPCI. Sorry for the lack of clarification. Many churches, especially the one I belonged to, were so quick to reference the Organization at any point when preaching hardcore standards, which was far more than necessary. So, that told me men's views far outweighed God's. When someone can present a valid, Biblical, and logical point on preaching extreme standards when the world isn't looking for that (they're actually looking for a God that will love and help them find The way to Heaven), I'll consider analyzing my own walk and beliefs. Until then, standards, from what I've seen, have done more damage than good. As a matter of fact, to preach such hardcore doctrines, to me, is no different than the obvious appearance of radical Islam (i.e. dress code). The UPCI is not interested in saving low-down, dirty and/or lost souls. Its leadership and anyone who supports it walk around in three-piece starched suits or long, flowing fancy dresses. To me, all that non-sense fits right in with the elite of plastic and fake. I'm better off without the UPCI and affiliated churches, and they're just as well of without me. God is still God, and He is all-knowing about anything and everything.

Re: My Experience
 

I'm sorry that you're so bitter.

Re: My Experience
 

Bitter? If you take what I'm saying as bitter, you don't know me. Actually, you don't know me at all. I have no bitterness toward what I've observed over the last 10 years; try concerns and prayers for those who are trapped in the same situations as I was and others who may be now. So, to say I'm bitter, then you're saying the same for others who have gone through heartache and pain to get where they're at at this point in their life. I can read, write, and think for myself instead of letting others do it for me. I'm well on my way to Heaven, including some stumbles along the way. But, I'm confident in what I've experienced that it has taught me a valuable lesson worth sharing, which I have. Ironically, there appear to be those who have responded based on their experience(s). Thank you for sharing your thought, though it has no significance at thist point.

Re: My Experience
 

No better time than now to repeat this: God never was, isn't now, and never will be subjected to or defined by an organization; any organization. He alone is Supreme.

Re: My Experience
 

Right on to you Indy,

I heard a sermon once by a young preacher in the org and the title of it was, "It takes Guts to Serve the Lord". It was basically a holiness message, in his home church with zero sinners in attendance. He was preaching the truth, right? Didn't Jesus say that offenses would come? I have heard more than my share of justification of preaching standards as a substitute for the gospel.
It is easy to understand why no sinners would attend.

After WWII, my military father took his wife, my mother, an Englishwoman met on r&r during the war to his home church in Kalamazoo for a service.
It was a PAW church pastored by Bishop Paddock.
They sat in the back. Just so happened that my mother wanted to look presentable for church; she had never been to a pentecostal church before. She dressed as nicely as she could with makeup, etc. The sermon turned into a chastising of all the Jezebel's that were wearing jewelry and makeup, because they were bound for hell.
Problem for the preacher was that she was the only non-regular there; iow, he singled her out. :club
She's not darkened the doors of another pentecostal church since, except when I talk her into coming to hear me preach when I'm in town.
You can thank "holiness" preaching for that, as if creating an offense is a preacher's prerogative. :snapout

Props to you, Indy. Just keep your wineskin new and refreshed...God will keep blessing you, in SPITE of goombahs.

Re: My Experience
 

Welcome...and way to offend and slander me, my parents, and all of the great UPCI men and women that I know who have dedicated their lives saving low-down, dirty, and/or lost souls. Your new found greater level of spirituality just oozes in this post...

Re: My Experience
 

The offense of the cross DOES NOT equal = holiness standards.

Re: My Experience
 

well...some people were born on the day of Saint Ignorance...they have no feelings for anyone but themselves...the gospel must have a drawing power not something that drieves the sinner away...He that winneth souls is wise...

Re: My Experience
 

Paul's writings seem to expose a man who is full of struggle. He was in the middle, so to speak, trying to draw the Jew and Gentile together. He also was deeply frustrated with the Jews wanting to continue in the practice of Old Testament Law, which really verifies the damage of Organized Faith.

Paul also appeared to be honest about his inner man, claiming his struggle within was still with him even after he was converted. Yet at other times his writings seem to drift back into the harsher side of Religion, and a God of little mercy.

Even my previous Pastor, who had been pastoring for 50 years and served in the Organization in high places, would admit that Paul said many things he didn't understand.

I do feel that what Paul did can be interpreted to fit whatever someone wants or is looking for. It's like any Faith or Religion, we take what we like and disregard what we don't.

From what I understand, Paul never started an Organization, per se'. He traveled to different places trying to instruct those who were gathering together with common ground. But as with all Religious gatherings, disputes erupted and agreement was near impossible.

If Paul's writings were to organize a "Faith", then why are there over 30,000 denominal Christian Religions in the World who believe they know what Paul was saying?

I personally believe, Faith has become a complicated array of a million opinions. I don’t believe the Lord ever meant for mankind to be confused about His Plan. God did place within every man a Conscience, and this realm where we decide to do what is right is actually quite easy. In other words, People know when they are in the wrong.

Problem is, Religion comes in with pages and pages of Do’s and Don’ts, and before long a person is consumed by guilt which is nothing more than false condemnation. People in general are weak, and we believe the best intent in others. Unfortunately, men and their organized plans take advantage of the unlearned and this weakness in us, creating a picture about God which is nothing more than a lie.

I do find it interesting that a majority of Mankind has had no access to written books concerning God, and that God never gave a man a book in the beginning. Relational access to God was from the simple and obvious; His Creation. Man relied on a deep inner seeking via his conscience and the Creation around him to be exposed to the moralities of life.

I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I have seen over the last 32 years, 15 of those pastoring myself, what Religion has done to people. I’m also trying to gain a bird’s eye view of the entire scope of our existence to help me gain a deeper and more personal walk with God.

Re: My Experience
 

Easy, tstew. I'm not so sure TI is painting with this type of broad brush.

It's OK to let people vent. I agree, many good and great things have been done by UPCI men and women, but there is a dark side to ALL Faiths.

Try to give an ear with love. Many on here have much to share that can help us all to change for the better.

Re: My Experience
 

Pleased to meet ya.

Re: My Experience
 

NSF, I don't see how you can see this as anything but an extremely broad brush. Perhaps my reading comprehension is a bit off:

" The UPCI is not interested in saving low-down, dirty and/or lost souls. Its leadership and anyone who supports it walk around in three-piece starched suits or long, flowing fancy dresses. To me, all that non-sense fits right in with the elite of plastic and fake."

Substitute UPCI for any group which you happen to be a part of...and tell me that this isn't a broad brush characterization. I'm all for giving an ear with love, but it's also important to speak (or type) with equal love and wisdom.

Re: My Experience
 

It oozes so it can run over the UPCI's non-sense of men's doctrines. Perhaps, one day, you'll find yourself asking questions too. No, it will not be disrespectful as long as you ask from a genuine heart.

In the words of Mark Twain, "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."

No, Mark Twain is not my God and I do not look to his writings as my sole guide in life. However, he nailed it right on the head when he wrote this statement.

Re: My Experience
 

Thank you for reading my post as I intended for it to be read. Had I been part of a larger, more structured congregation, perhaps I would not have written about my experience.

Re: My Experience
 

Indy - again, your problem is not with an organization but with people who happen to belong to an organization. It's like saying all Republicians are rich, white people who don't care about poor people. Or all Democrats only care about taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor.
It is a broad brush and I would say that you are saying this about an organization, because it's easier to blame a faceless entity than to blame another person or blame ourselves.
I personally have met people in the UPCI who I liked and met some who I did not like. However, overall the majority of people who good people who love God, want to go to Heaven and take others with them.
I believe the majority of people on this board are the same.
I would leave you with some advice that I learned from a long-time missionary.
If you are having a problem with someone or don't like someone, pray for them.
Pray that God would have his way in their life and bless them.

It's amazing after praying for someone how hard it is to not like them or be interested in them.

Re: My Experience
 

Indy - I am curious about what you now believe.
What do you think it takes to be saved?

Re: My Experience
 

good for you

Re: My Experience
 

LOL! There are a handfull of wimps who have accused me of being mean... to hear some tell it, i load shotguns with the eyeballs of squirrels and shot small children with it.

and I dont even spell check sometimes.