Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

I just found this in a what we believe statement of a very popular church...do you agree or disagree? In total, you can't just agree with one part and not the other...my post, I make the rules. :D

The Son
Jesus Christ is God and is the Son of God. He is the living Word of God, and through Him all things were created. Born to the Virgin Mary and of the Holy Spirit, Jesus left heaven and came to earth as a man to redeem mankind. He is completely God and completely man.

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

I am ok with it, though the wording is a bit interesting (Holy Spirit rather than heavenly Father)

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

How about now?

God the Father is the creator and sustainer of everything. He composed the universe-in all of its beauty and glory-and while He was making this universe, He made man in His own image so that He could have fellowship with him. After man fell, God the Father graciously called man back into fellowship with Him through Christ.

Jesus Christ is God and is the Son of God. He is the living Word of God, and through Him all things were created. Born to the Virgin Mary and of the Holy Spirit, Jesus left heaven and came to earth as a man to redeem mankind. He is completely God and completely man.

The Holy Spirit is God, and He is the Giver of life. The Spirit was active during the Old Testament, often speaking and working through the Jewish prophets. But it was on the day of Pentecost that He was given to the Church in fullness. The Holy Spirit works in our lives to transform us into the image of Jesus. He also empowers us to serve Jesus, and to be witnesses to His name. He is fully released in our lives by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which happens after salvation. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is shown both inwardly and outwardly by many different ways.

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

:girlnails

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

Someone called a plumber?

The Godhead ninjas punch in after 5 PST

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

I have a problem with this portion:

"Born to the Virgin Mary and of the Holy Spirit, Jesus left heaven and came to earth as a man...."

I believe God left heaven and came to earth as the man, Jesus; the man, Jesus, didn't exist until he was born to Mary.

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

I just went out and did a quick survey of 1,000 meth addicts, prostitutes, homeless folks, prison inmates, the hungry, the thirsty, and the cold.

None of them cared.

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

They will care when they wonder who to direct their prayers to. Does equal time have to be given to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Or can they simply pray to God in Jesus' name?

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They could just ask Jesus (God) in Jesus' name.

John 14:14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. (NASB)

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What I don't understand is the fine-tooth combing!

So many reject Eternal Sonship so much they don't stop to listen to what is said.

If the sentence read:

Born to the Virgin Mary and of the Holy Spirit, HE left heaven and came to earth as a man....

They wouldn't and couldn't quarrel. Because of a pronoun?

You can't say Jesus is the Son of God and God.
Then add God is eternal

And not conclude that some aspect of Jesus is not eternal.

It's like saying my mom, sister Alicea, didn't exist before marrying my Dad.

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

I still could live with it, but like NOW question the value of fine dissection...

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

Without further qualification I can agree with this except for the "left heaven" part. Language like that has to be seen as a sort of anthropomorphism or metaphor...God did not literally leave heaven

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

But who is or was Jesus the man? Is He not God? This is like saying "President Obama was born in Hawaii"...it does not mean He was president at the time he was born

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

post of the day

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Where oh where has the "simplicity of the Gospel" gone to?

BT

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

Here are a couple of verses to ponder:

John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Also see Danial 7:13)

Then there is this:

John 6:38 (KJV)
For I [Jesus] came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me

Also see John 6:42-43. 6:51 & 58.
John 14:13, 15:16, 16:23

So, let doctrine match scripture, not the other way around.

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

"came down from" speaks of origin, not that Jesus left heaven behind that is to undeify himself

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Please explain.

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What does this post have to do with me answering Carp's question? Honestly, n.o.w. None of them care about YOUR post, either. :rolleyes2

Re: Agree or disagree in total?? Why?
 

No, it isn't. I said the man, Jesus, didn't exist until He was born of Mary. Are you of the opinion that He did? God became flesh and dwelt among us...before that, the flesh of God did not exist.

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My brain is too fried to deal with this tonight but I will say I found it a very awkwardly worded belief statement.

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I agree; it's not that any of it is concretely wrong, but it's not quite *right* either. Awkward is a good word.

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Of course, this is difficult, because it is man trying to define the infinite God.
There is so much complexity of God, that our definitions become contradictory.

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So are you saying it is like female logic?:icecream:happydance:thumbsup

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WOW...CC1 you are a brave man! :heeheehee

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A smack down is coming your way. :girlytantrum :club :rip :irule

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He made 'em didn't He? LOL

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Time has proven more stupid than brave! I just wanted to see how Cindy and Miss Brattfield would respond. LOL

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I'll be surprised if you can log in tomorrow!

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What's gonna be funny Hoovie, is if the entire system is down for all of us and CC1 doesn't know that. He'll think for sure they got him! lol

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:thumbsup

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It can be arranged.

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:highfive

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Dude, that's a pretty scrappy neighborhood.

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oh, OH! The condescending eye-roll.

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... personally, I don't have much a problem with the statements that Carp has offered for us. None of them appear to use OVERTLY "Trinnie" language such as "eternally existent in Three Distinct Persons..."

... and yet, when I Google the phrases I find that they all are part of "Belief Statements" in churches with a Reformed theology and ALL of them begin with the statement, "I believe in the Trinity..."

What's interesting to me, a whole lot of OP folks could happily say "I too believe in the Trinity..." if we define "Trinity" with these and other more Biblical statements, leaving out the contentious creedal language of the 6th through 16th Centuries.

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mm-hmm...and that's one I do IRL all.the.time. :D

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:thumbsup

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Yeah? She is a bratt, duh!!

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Which gives the best results? :heeheehee