Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

1. The Roman Catholic church as a result of the Nicean council
2. The Reformation and the article written by Martin Luther
3. The Apostolic movement and the upper room

I wonder to what extent the apostolic movement can be tied to #2.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Where did you get this from and to what context does your title relate?

The modern-day Oneness Apostolic movement is a progression from the Reformation, Wesleyan Holiness Movement and then Azusa Street (in an extremely minimized description).

All groups claim to be intimately related to the Early Church. This is all groups' claim. The Catholics have all the history on their side -- and that remains one strong point for RCC, and one in which we all learn from, history. (Of course their history also includes burnings of works not theirs, cruelty, etc)

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Disagree.

Where do the JH, Mormons, Sikhs, Muslims, Animists-- need I go on?

Who influenced them?

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

All of them would look to Acts 2, to some degree, as well as the NT.

Sikh's, Muslims.... yeah, I wasn't even sure what the post means or what they are asking. Are they referring to Christian religious groups or Religion in general?

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

The world renowned, voice of the UPC, nationwide evangelist and Landmark keynote speaker, Rev. Danny Hood used this in one of his sermons as a matter of fact...

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

This is what I had figured as well...no way would protestantism be present in the United States without the reformation...of course, we cannot prove a negative that by some divine revelation it wouldn't have happened anyway...

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

That person made a mistake in his sermon.

It happens, from time to time.

I am sure the gist of the sermon was factual.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Protestantism WAS the Reformation.

Protestant = Protest = Reformation of RCC

No one predicted it would have formed a new leg of Christianity, as Luther, Zwingli and others were only concerned with correcting the areas they felt the RCC was "missing it." Similar to some of the Pentecostal criticism that happens on AFF :)

But instead, the reformers became part of a reformation. A movement that never ceased to stop --- anabaptists, lutherans, etc...

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

It ties much more closely to #2 than #3, but I also disagree that these are the "three sources of religion". There are two major outgrowths of the Christian movement, RCC (which was not a result of the Nicean Council) and the Reformation, which cannot be completely attributed to Martin Luther, though he played a major role in the beginning of it. Both the RCC and the Reformation stem from "the upper room". Today's Apostolic movement, however, does not trace it's roots straight back to Acts 2 in a clear progression of information handed down from generation to generation for 2000 years. They trace through the Reformation.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Too limited of a list, IMHO. Perhaps you were also just intending the "sources of religion" relevant to 20th Century Americans?

The Council of Nicea was actually a bust, initially. The next 3 Roman Emperors were all Arians and pushed Arian theology. Then, the 4th Emperor after Nicea (Julian the Apostate) renounced Christianity as a whole. It was Theodosius who finally started to tear down "pagan" temples and to really promote "The Catholic Faith" - thought Roman Catholicism was still centuries away.

"We" (OPs) are "Children of the Reformation" in many ways. However, the bulk of our theological baggage was inherited from Wesley ("Perfectionism") and the English Brethren Movement (Dispensationalism) - though both of these were also "Children of the Reformation."

The teachings of the ancients (the apostles of the First Century) has been all but lost. We may mouth some of their words but we really do miss out on their meaning all too often. Our literalism ("Fundamentalism") is less than 200 years old.

Just some thoughts.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

The interesting thing to me is that to my knowledge, this sort of thing is so easy for folks sitting there warm in pews to simply accept, for some it just floated over their heads, and even others, it means absolutely nothing because the culture is doing just fine to convince them of the truth.

:D

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

20th Century Apostolic Faith Movement arose from Charles Fox Parham's wrestling with the consequences of Wesley's Christian Perfectionism and the Holiness Movement as a whole. The Holiness people of the 19th Century were constantly debating the exact process by which a believer became "sinless" due to their own desire to exist in a state free from worldly temptations and sin.

Wesley was influenced by the Moravian Brethren, an offshoot of the Hussite Reformation of the 13th Century. This was sometimes called "the First Reformation." Wesley was also inspired by the Roman Catholic spiritualist Thomas à Kempis. Add to this the fact that Wesley's Anglicanism was a circumvention of the Reformation that was going on in Continental Europe and I've almost talked myself out of calling ourselves "Children of the Reformation." LOL.

Parham was looking for a "sign," some sort of benchmark that would establish the point at which a believer became "holy and sinless" - the state or condition Wesley and the Holiness Movement advocated and sought. He decided upon "speaking in other tongues" and deliberately planted this idea with his students to create the idea that they had all "discovered" this truth together. In fact, he had been teaching this years before at Zion, Illinois. This was long before he ever came to Topeka.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Yeah. I see your aim, now (I think). And, complexity is something we all tend to resist. Yet, complexity is just how the universe (and we, ourselves) work. We would all do well to stop and ponder these things. Now you can see why I squirm so much when I'm listening to most OP preachers. They're just butchering reality.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Wow.. .good stuff. Never knew the bolded, and I've had MANY classes that talked about Nicea.

Re: Agree-Disagree Three sources of religion
 

Athanasius died in exile. First Constantine himself sent him from Egypt to the German Rhineland because the bishop was stirring up political strife. Then, after returning to Alexandria following the death of Constantine, Athanasius was again exiled, this time by the Arian devotee Constantius II.

In fact, just about every Roman Emperor from Constantine to Valens appears to have exiled Athanasius. He had his supporters in Alexandria and Rome, but the majority of Christians at this time appear to have been Arians. The oft cited "Athanasian Creed" wasn't actually written until about the 6th Century after Trinitarianism had finally taken root.