A Meaningless Salvation
 

The idea of being "born again" or "saved" has become almost completely meaningless today. True self-transformation, the birth of a New Mind that Christ called "metanoia," is not something that can be handed out by priests and ministers for the asking. Such transformation requires conscious, deliberate, ongoing effort on the part of the individual... but not by "works" as in the context of doing anything in order to "earn" salvation! God requires us to choose His Life in every moment, and we must pay with ourselves to put Him first. Dying to yourself is the path to rebirth... not saying some magic words in a fervent moment in hopes that they will wash you clean forever. This kind of experience may well be a starting point but it is not the whole story; it is not the be-all and end-all of the spiritual journey. Christ summed up the Path to gaining entrance to the Kingdom when he said: "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it."

Guy Finley

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

Almost thou persuadest me...

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

I'm sorry but that all sounded like "the church isn't as spiritual and intellectual as I think I am..."

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

Salvation has been reduced to a few words whether in tongues or in a canned prayer. The author explains salvation is a daily commitment to die to self and commit oneself to Christ. In other words, the emphasis is placed on repentance. Lines up with the Bible.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

You said the terms "born again" and "saved" that are written clearly in the Bible are becoming meaningless today but then use extra-Biblical terms like "self-transformation". I'd rather just go with what the book says. Sorry, you lost me there.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

The Bible gives us the responsibility to transform ourselves by renewing of our mind. All the tongue talking or sinner prayers are useless without a transformation. God is limited by what we allow him to do.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

That doesn't de-legitimize the New birth by any means. One is continually transformed through the ongoing process of sanctification, I agree but there is a single uniform experience of being "born again" present in scripture that precedes this.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

That has nothing to do with what he posted. How about dealing with the point that it raised.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

He's absolutely correct. Salvation has been reduced to a formula by every denomination under heaven. They disagree with which formula is the correct one, but formulaic it is.

The Bible also has a formula for salvation : TRUE repentance, TRUE faith in God through Jesus Christ, TRUE confession of the name of the Lord, TRUE baptism, TRUE Holy Ghost, TRUE holiness, TRUE regeneration, TRUE obedience to the gospel, TRUE SALVATION.

But in the hurry to 'make converts' and 'get people saved' many religious movements have devolved into ceremonialism, whether it is the ceremony of 'coming forward and repeat-after-me' or even, heaven forbid, having a good cry at the altar and being baptised and even speaking in tongues.

When Cornelius and company received the Holy Ghost, it was said that God had "purifed their hearts by faith."

How often does that happen these days?

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

Pointing out where Christendom is taking an unscriptural detour does not mean one is full of spiritual pride.

This idea we must never criticize that which ought to be criticized is nonsense.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

I think what he is saying, is, It is ridicules to think that a sinners prayer saves you. Or, OSAS, so go do what you want.

Or even, as many Pentecostal’s are taught or come to believe on their own. That when you are ‘born again’ you have it made. Just obey the rules, of what your Pastor teaches you. Many times meaning, outward holiness. Be in church every time the doors are open and pay your tithes. And very little about the inward man and how to overcome, greed, pride, selfishness, off color talk just on the borderline of porn, how to treat your neighbor, and the greatest, what is love.?

The truth is, You must be ‘born again’ before you have the power to live a holy life. (And that does not mean that you will) You may have the wrong teaching of what a holy life consists of. You will only get that from desire and the study of the Bible, as a small group and on your own, seeking for truth.
You can not work your way into being born again. Born again, must come first.

As far as Formula’s. Jesus taught the Apostles, gave Peter the Keys (understanding) and Peter really did give us a Formula. Repent, be baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost. And as our example’s, we see that the evidence of the Holy Ghost was speaking in other tongues.

However, that is only the beginning. But to think that is all there is to salvation, would be like, a newborn baby, being left to get it’s own food, learn to walk, talk, or how to function as a responsible human being.

Of course none are left like that. However, they are put into a Denomination which is like an orphanage, where all are treated alike. No Disciplining there. I believe that is exactly why the Apostles, which were left to set up the Church, started out with House Churches.

People say, Oh but a house church could go wrong. True! But that depends on the condition of the heart and spirit of those attending, which is also true of any Denomination. When a people don’t let Jesus be the Head, whether a Denomination or an individual, they have already went back to the pig pen.

If six people or a whole Denomination are looking for ways to be as close to the worldly spirit, as they can be without getting caught (which many don’t understand is the spirit of the Devil) they will compromise, rationalize and finally come up with a solution, to ease their conscience. Or they will backslide.

A Denomination can’t function very long, unless they Legalize their man-made laws and rules. And when people get sick of that, it usually turns into, “anything goes.” I’ve seen it happen. And am seeing it happen more and more.

And yes, the churches are turning into social clubs and meaningless Religion. There is no such thing as meaningless salvation, unless a person is talking about people that were truly born again, and then turning to sin.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

I don't care what he's saying. He veered off topic so he wouldn't have to address the point that was made by TV.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

Acts 2:38 isn't a get out of hell free card. Annanias and Saphhira prove that point.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

In fact, being truly 'saved' isn't a get out of hell free card either, otherwise the warnings against apostacy and backsliding are meaningless.

I've always told my kids, it isn't about whether you spoke in tongues or got saved or got filled with the spirit back in 19whatever. It is all about are you saved NOW, filled with God's Spirit NOW, walking in truth and holiness NOW.

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

:highfive

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

AMEN!

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

Trinitarians do not believe in three gods.

Once saved always saved believers do not believe in lasciviousness. The scripture, "He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it in you," is the scripture they use for their doctrine-- which is not explained properly by many within Pentecost.

Did the prodigal son ever stop being a son?

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

You are right. What Christ did on the cross is not enough.
It's speaking in tongues and water baptism that saves the sinner.
Long hair helps too. And of course..ah....never mind the rest.

But you are right, one needs to work his/her way into heaven.
Nothing is free these days.

Just saying....

:nuke

Re: A Meaningless Salvation
 

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