A Meaningless Salvation

[tv1a]

The idea of being "born again" or "saved" has become almost completely meaningless today. True self-transformation, the birth of a New Mind that Christ called "metanoia," is not something that can be handed out by priests and ministers for the asking. Such transformation requires conscious, deliberate, ongoing effort on the part of the individual... but not by "works" as in the context of doing anything in order to "earn" salvation! God requires us to choose His Life in every moment, and we must pay with ourselves to put Him first. Dying to yourself is the path to rebirth... not saying some magic words in a fervent moment in hopes that they will wash you clean forever. This kind of experience may well be a starting point but it is not the whole story; it is not the be-all and end-all of the spiritual journey. Christ summed up the Path to gaining entrance to the Kingdom when he said: "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it."

Guy Finley

[houston]

Almost thou persuadest me...

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The idea of being "born again" or "saved" has become almost completely meaningless today. True self-transformation, the birth of a New Mind that Christ called "metanoia," is not something that can be handed out by priests and ministers for the asking. Such transformation requires conscious, deliberate, ongoing effort on the part of the individual... but not by "works" as in the context of doing anything in order to "earn" salvation! God requires us to choose His Life in every moment, and we must pay with ourselves to put Him first. Dying to yourself is the path to rebirth... not saying some magic words in a fervent moment in hopes that they will wash you clean forever. This kind of experience may well be a starting point but it is not the whole story; it is not the be-all and end-all of the spiritual journey. Christ summed up the Path to gaining entrance to the Kingdom when he said: "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it."

Guy Finley

I'm sorry but that all sounded like "the church isn't as spiritual and intellectual as I think I am..."

[tv1a]

Salvation has been reduced to a few words whether in tongues or in a canned prayer. The author explains salvation is a daily commitment to die to self and commit oneself to Christ. In other words, the emphasis is placed on repentance. Lines up with the Bible.

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I'm sorry but that all sounded like "the church isn't as spiritual and intellectual as I think I am..."

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Salvation has been reduced to a few words whether in tongues or in a canned prayer. The author explains salvation is a daily commitment to die to self and commit oneself to Christ. In other words, the emphasis is placed on repentance. Lines up with the Bible.

You said the terms "born again" and "saved" that are written clearly in the Bible are becoming meaningless today but then use extra-Biblical terms like "self-transformation". I'd rather just go with what the book says. Sorry, you lost me there.

[tv1a]

The Bible gives us the responsibility to transform ourselves by renewing of our mind. All the tongue talking or sinner prayers are useless without a transformation. God is limited by what we allow him to do.

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

You said the terms "born again" and "saved" that are written clearly in the Bible are becoming meaningless today but then use extra-Biblical terms like "self-transformation". I'd rather just go with what the book says. Sorry, you lost me there.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The Bible gives us the responsibility to transform ourselves by renewing of our mind. All the tongue talking or sinner prayers are useless without a transformation. God is limited by what we allow him to do.

That doesn't de-legitimize the New birth by any means. One is continually transformed through the ongoing process of sanctification, I agree but there is a single uniform experience of being "born again" present in scripture that precedes this.

[houston]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

there is a single uniform experience of being "born again" present in scripture that precedes this.

That has nothing to do with what he posted. How about dealing with the point that it raised.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The idea of being "born again" or "saved" has become almost completely meaningless today. True self-transformation, the birth of a New Mind that Christ called "metanoia," is not something that can be handed out by priests and ministers for the asking. Such transformation requires conscious, deliberate, ongoing effort on the part of the individual... but not by "works" as in the context of doing anything in order to "earn" salvation! God requires us to choose His Life in every moment, and we must pay with ourselves to put Him first. Dying to yourself is the path to rebirth... not saying some magic words in a fervent moment in hopes that they will wash you clean forever. This kind of experience may well be a starting point but it is not the whole story; it is not the be-all and end-all of the spiritual journey. Christ summed up the Path to gaining entrance to the Kingdom when he said: "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it."

Guy Finley

He's absolutely correct. Salvation has been reduced to a formula by every denomination under heaven. They disagree with which formula is the correct one, but formulaic it is.

The Bible also has a formula for salvation : TRUE repentance, TRUE faith in God through Jesus Christ, TRUE confession of the name of the Lord, TRUE baptism, TRUE Holy Ghost, TRUE holiness, TRUE regeneration, TRUE obedience to the gospel, TRUE SALVATION.

But in the hurry to 'make converts' and 'get people saved' many religious movements have devolved into ceremonialism, whether it is the ceremony of 'coming forward and repeat-after-me' or even, heaven forbid, having a good cry at the altar and being baptised and even speaking in tongues.

When Cornelius and company received the Holy Ghost, it was said that God had "purifed their hearts by faith."

How often does that happen these days?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I'm sorry but that all sounded like "the church isn't as spiritual and intellectual as I think I am..."

Pointing out where Christendom is taking an unscriptural detour does not mean one is full of spiritual pride.

This idea we must never criticize that which ought to be criticized is nonsense.