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Abiding Now 01-07-2014 07:45 AM

"Home Church" Question?
 
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WHO receives the tithes?





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n david 01-07-2014 08:13 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295865)
WHO receives the tithes?

Silly you. Home Church people don't believe in tithes!

Lafon 01-07-2014 08:29 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1295868)
Silly you. Home Church people don't believe in tithes!


:thumbsup :highfive

KeptByTheWord 01-07-2014 09:52 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Paul wrote a wonderful chapter of instruction to the church in Rome. He covered many topics in this one chapter. It would be good for us all to read them again, and so I have posted the entire chapter below.

In this chapter, Abiding Now, if you will point out exactly what Paul exhorts the saints to do with their money, that would be great.

Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;

12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Abiding Now 01-07-2014 01:55 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1295868)
Silly you. Home Church people don't believe in tithes!

Well, that explains a lot of what I read around here.

:highfive

Abiding Now 01-07-2014 02:01 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1295884)
Paul wrote a wonderful chapter of instruction to the church in Rome. He covered many topics in this one chapter. It would be good for us all to read them again, and so I have posted the entire chapter below.

In this chapter, Abiding Now, if you will point out exactly what Paul exhorts the saints to do with their money, that would be great.

Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;

12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Thank you. I love that chapter with the instructions on Christian discipleship and loving our fellow man. Now, could you point out what Jesus said to do concerning tithe in this verse?

KJV Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Praxeas 01-07-2014 02:12 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295865)
.

WHO receives the tithes?





.

The House

Abiding Now 01-07-2014 02:18 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1295897)
The House

Now that made me chuckle. Thanks I needed a good LOL.:highfive

renee819 01-07-2014 05:25 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295893)
Thank you. I love that chapter with the instructions on Christian discipleship and loving our fellow man. Now, could you point out what Jesus said to do concerning tithe in this verse?

KJV Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I think abiding is well able to answer, but I'd like to put my 2 cents in.

The short answer is, until the cross, Israel was still under the Law.

One of the things that Jesus came to do was to fulfill the Law. And then He 'took away the first in order to establish the second.' And I know, Abraham, paid tithes before the Law was established, but that still has nothing to do with us.

With the New Covenant, everything changed. About the only thing that remained the same, was 'faith' and 'love.' and actually a stronger faith and love, because it is the Holy Ghost that gives us that love. And thru the 'gifts that comes from the Holy Ghost' we can have more faith.

Jason B 01-07-2014 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295865)
.

WHO receives the tithes?

.

Oh this is such a softball question. Perhaps I will come back after my evening festivities.

KeptByTheWord 01-07-2014 07:46 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295893)
Thank you. I love that chapter with the instructions on Christian discipleship and loving our fellow man. Now, could you point out what Jesus said to do concerning tithe in this verse?

KJV Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Well, the answer to your original posted question, WHO receives the tithes? was in that chapter, and you must have missed it... so here, read this again...

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints;

Got it now? :thumbsup

... and as Sis. Renee had already pointed out... the verse you can come up with regarding tithing, speaks of the Old Covenant, which was done away at Calvary, along with the priesthood, sacrifices, etc.

GIVING is now the NT message on how to handle your money.... ...but since we're on the subject of "tithes", "tithing" or "tithed", please share any passages where Paul taught the church to tithe.

houston 01-07-2014 08:01 PM

Funny. When the thief on the cross gets saved before Calvary they say that he was under the OT, but when Jesus taught on tithes before Calvary...

renee819 01-08-2014 05:43 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1295927)
Funny. When the thief on the cross gets saved before Calvary they say that he was under the OT, but when Jesus taught on tithes before Calvary...

Houston, both were under the Law. The Thief, could only repent. he could not be baptized in Jesus name, even if he could come down from the cross and he certainly could not receive the Holy Ghost, because it was not yet given.

Abiding Now 01-08-2014 08:19 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1295925)
Well, the answer to your original posted question, WHO receives the tithes? was in that chapter, and you must have missed it... so here, read this again...

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints;

Got it now? :thumbsup

... and as Sis. Renee had already pointed out... the verse you can come up with regarding tithing, speaks of the Old Covenant, which was done away at Calvary, along with the priesthood, sacrifices, etc.

GIVING is now the NT message on how to handle your money.... ...but since we're on the subject of "tithes", "tithing" or "tithed", please share any passages where Paul taught the church to tithe.

I'm sorry that I couldn't do like you and read into "Distributing to the necessity of saints" anything about tithing. Also could you give a verse where Paul taught the church to not tithe. Thanks.

Abiding Now 01-08-2014 08:20 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1295927)
Funny. When the thief on the cross gets saved before Calvary they say that he was under the OT, but when Jesus taught on tithes before Calvary...

:thumbsup

n david 01-08-2014 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1295925)
Well, the answer to your original posted question, WHO receives the tithes? was in that chapter, and you must have missed it... so here, read this again...

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints;

Got it now? :thumbsup

That's a mighty big leap there. What makes you so sure it's talking about money at all. Could be referring to toilet paper and deodorant.

KeptByTheWord 01-08-2014 10:38 AM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295957)
I'm sorry that I couldn't do like you and read into "Distributing to the necessity of saints" anything about tithing. Also could you give a verse where Paul taught the church to not tithe. Thanks.

I'm sorry too that your loving heart couldn't understand that "distributing to the necessity of the saints" may involve giving of $$ or perhaps giving in other ways, such as your time, your prayers, and of material things. Giving does not just include a $ bill...

And the reason Paul never taught tithing to the Gentiles, is because Gentiles had never tithed. It was a Jewish concept, and when Calvary took place, the entire concept of tithing, priesthood, tabernacle, sacrifices etc., had ended forever. The New Covenant of grace had entered in. Jesus is now the tabernacle, the priesthood was completed in Jesus, and sacrifices no longer needed to be made.

Now, the greatest commandment Jesus had given us was to love God, and love one another. One of the ways to show your love one to another, would be to do, as Paul said "distributing to the necessity of the saints", loving one another would include helping with $$ if necessary, or with your time, money, or whatever it is that you can do to be of service for one another.

This is the new concept of giving that came in through the New Covenant.

The Apostle Paul did not have to teach a "no tithing" concept, because it was not a concept the Gentiles ever knew about or practiced. But he DID teach giving.

God Bless.

renee819 01-08-2014 02:44 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1295972)
I'm sorry too that your loving heart couldn't understand that "distributing to the necessity of the saints" may involve giving of $$ or perhaps giving in other ways, such as your time, your prayers, and of material things. Giving does not just include a $ bill...

And the reason Paul never taught tithing to the Gentiles, is because Gentiles had never tithed. It was a Jewish concept, and when Calvary took place, the entire concept of tithing, priesthood, tabernacle, sacrifices etc., had ended forever. The New Covenant of grace had entered in. Jesus is now the tabernacle, the priesthood was completed in Jesus, and sacrifices no longer needed to be made.

Now, the greatest commandment Jesus had given us was to love God, and love one another. One of the ways to show your love one to another, would be to do, as Paul said "distributing to the necessity of the saints", loving one another would include helping with $$ if necessary, or with your time, money, or whatever it is that you can do to be of service for one another.

This is the new concept of giving that came in through the New Covenant.

The Apostle Paul did not have to teach a "no tithing" concept, because it was not a concept the Gentiles ever knew about or practiced. But he DID teach giving.

God Bless.

AMEN----

renee819 01-08-2014 06:53 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
I see that I wrote the wrong name in, I wrote,

Quote:

I think abiding is well able to answer, but I'd like to put my 2 cents in.
I meant, I think Kept, is well able to answer, but I'd like to put my 2 cents in

KeptByTheWord 01-08-2014 08:29 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by renee819 (Post 1296012)
I see that I wrote the wrong name in, I wrote,



I meant, I think Kept, is well able to answer, but I'd like to put my 2 cents in

Thanks Renee, always value your input too! :highfive

shazeep 01-09-2014 12:00 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
ok, i'm finding it passing strange--at least--that Aquila has not weighed in here? My current pastor happens to run a home church; and would be offended at the idea of money being inserted into the equation. I found that significant, as i had just finished a study that was fairly compelling in presenting the idea that a sign that satan is intruding or trying to intrude in a situation is when money is presented in some facet of it.

Aquila 01-09-2014 12:28 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295865)
WHO receives the tithes?

House churches are as varied as regular churches. Some believe in tithing while others don't. Either way, the hosting elder typically receives the tithes and/or offerings. Sometimes they only take a percentage for themselves to cover some of the personal expenses of the house church. The rest will go to the ministry or a benevolence fund to help members, friends, and family who might be in need.

The house churches that I'm familiar with do not believe in tithing. However, they do believe in vows. Vows are made in accordance to what a person has determined in their hearts to give. It's handled much like pledges. However, a vow is binding between the individual and God. Every year vows are renewed or modified. The principle of sowing and reaping comes into play in this model. Those who sow bountifully will reap bountifully. Those who sow sparingly will reap sparingly.

n david 01-09-2014 12:40 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
My Pastor last night said we'll be starting home meetings in the next few months. We'll still keep Sunday services and other special services at the building we rent, but he feels we should focus more on home group ministry.

KeptByTheWord 01-09-2014 05:13 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1296170)
My Pastor last night said we'll be starting home meetings in the next few months. We'll still keep Sunday services and other special services at the building we rent, but he feels we should focus more on home group ministry.

How do you feel about this?

KeptByTheWord 01-09-2014 05:14 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1296167)
House churches are as varied as regular churches. Some believe in tithing while others don't. Either way, the hosting elder typically receives the tithes and/or offerings. Sometimes they only take a percentage for themselves to cover some of the personal expenses of the house church. The rest will go to the ministry or a benevolence fund to help members, friends, and family who might be in need.

The house churches that I'm familiar with do not believe in tithing. However, they do believe in vows. Vows are made in accordance to what a person has determined in their hearts to give. It's handled much like pledges. However, a vow is binding between the individual and God. Every year vows are renewed or modified. The principle of sowing and reaping comes into play in this model. Those who sow bountifully will reap bountifully. Those who sow sparingly will reap sparingly.

Great concept, I think.

Esaias 01-10-2014 01:32 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1295957)
I'm sorry that I couldn't do like you and read into "Distributing to the necessity of saints" anything about tithing. Also could you give a verse where Paul taught the church to not tithe. Thanks.

Show me a proper Levite and give me the mailing address to the Temple in Jerusalem, and I'll gladly send 10 percent of the increase of my herds and crops there. (I wonder if Fed-Ex would work? Would the cost of shipping be deducted from the tithe?)

Esaias 01-10-2014 01:33 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1296170)
My Pastor last night said we'll be starting home meetings in the next few months. We'll still keep Sunday services and other special services at the building we rent, but he feels we should focus more on home group ministry.

Slippery slope, brother. Watch out! Next thing you know he'll start talking about 'one cup and one loaf'...

:heeheehee

KeptByTheWord 01-10-2014 01:35 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1296430)
Show me a proper Levite and give me the mailing address to the Temple in Jerusalem, and I'll gladly send 10 percent of the increase of my herds and crops there. (I wonder if Fed-Ex would work? Would the cost of shipping be deducted from the tithe?)

:toofunny

n david 01-10-2014 02:10 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1296280)
How do you feel about this?

I think small groups or home services are a necessary addition for a church body. It helps bring the body closer together. I've been involved previously with another church "cell" group, and saw the benefits of it; many visitors would come to the group sessions first before attending the services.

I'm excited about it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1296432)
Slippery slope, brother. Watch out! Next thing you know he'll start talking about 'one cup and one loaf'...

:heeheehee

:toofunny I started attending when this church was just beginning. I remember when we had the first communion service, the Pastor used real wine! First time I'd ever had real wine during communion.

That was the only time though. Could be due to the rush for leftovers at the end... :toofunny

KeptByTheWord 01-10-2014 03:55 PM

Re: "Home Church" Question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1296438)
I think small groups or home services are a necessary addition for a church body. It helps bring the body closer together. I've been involved previously with another church "cell" group, and saw the benefits of it; many visitors would come to the group sessions first before attending the services.

I'm excited about it.

Yes, definitely home fellowship brings people into closer relationships with each other, and I believe with the Lord.


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