Question about spiritual gifts?
 

I have often wondered why do not see more signs and miracles than we do and why it seems that at one time these things were more prominent than now? While thinking about this I remembered these scriptures:

1 Cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Cor 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Do these verses teach that we must seek to receive spiritual gifts or do we just receive them when we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

We must seek spiritual gifts. In other words, it takes effort on our part. In the youtube video, an actual healing of bladder cancer is recorded and starts at about the 5:00 minute mark. It's the image on the right on the sonogram. It takes effort on their part and it's amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVjdvRw4LM

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

While I believe God can and does give gifts without seeking, it seems that this teaching in part an effort on our end to seek or be available.

I never hear churches stressing this.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

I never remember hearing it taught in this way before and was curious what others thought.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

I teach it to our bible study group.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

There are some reasons, that, in my mind, lend themselves to understanding why the Gifts of the Spirit aren't seemingly occurring as often, especially miracles and healings.

1.) The need has decreased. Who needs God to do for them what modern medicine can do over the counter? Who needs a financial miracle when capitalism and the American dream provide an endless supply of opportunities to increase one's income? Who should expect a financial miracle when their personal stewardship of what God has blessed them with is non-existent?

2.) Many, MANY health problems in the world today are self-inflicted, brought about through terrible diets, lack of exercise, and other detrimental habits. Paul assured us whosoever defiles God's temple, God will destroy. We reap what we sow. God is not obligated to cure a man of lung cancer if said man smoked for most of his life. Nor yet cure Type II Diabetes for an overweight person who commits the sin of gluttony on a daily basis.

Nor is God obligated to bail anyone out of any other bad decision, like who they marry, what job they take, how they spend their money, and etc. Why should God bend or break the laws of physics for someone who caused their own problems?

3.) The Gospel has become an intellectual affair based on good hermeneutics and apologetics, instead of being a received by faith doctrine established and proven through signs, wonders, and diverse miracles.

Faith isn't preached much these days. The Resurrection is commonly ignored. Heaven isn't believed and accepted as a true reality.

Not to mention all the fakers and false proclaimers who destroy the faith of those who otherwise are genuinely interested in seeing a demonstration of the Holy Spirit.

4.) Doctrinal error and division in the Body of Christ will never get God's stamp of approval. Why would God operate His Gifts in order to bless and edify a scattered, disarrayed bunch of politicking haters who can't look a brother or sister in the eyes when they gossip about them?

5.) Finally, no apostles. The signs of an Apostle were common once upon a time. Now, with pastor pulpits and entire churches and organizations dominated by people who aren't called to Apostleship, it's no wonder the charismata have nearly disappeared.

To put it simply, the wrong people are in charge, which is disorder and confusion.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

I once read a book on every miracle in the Bible. Even in the Bible miracles took place in clusters that surrounded a personality and their message. The purpose was to validate the message. When miracles, signs, and wonders cease... perhaps there is something wrong with the message?

I believe that one should seek spiritual gifts. Not only that, one should learn how to hone those spiritual waters through practice.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

Great point. I'd also like to add "Legalism" as a reason that we don't see more miracles and signs. One might ask how this would cause signs and wonders to cease. Well for several reasons:

1.) When one is caught up in a legalistic religious framework, there is the tendency to believe that receiving a miracle or being used to work a miracle is predicated upon one's religious performance. If the individual isn't truly "living up" to the legalistic expectations, they feel unworthy and this begins to descend into unbelief.

2.) When one is caught up I a legalistic religious framework, there is the tendency to believe that miracles signs and wonders validate one's level of holiness or righteousness. The end result is the individual being able to claim some of the glory based on their perceived stellar performance.

3.) Why would God allow miracles, signs, and wonders to take place that would validate a religious framework wherein His grace and mercy in light of man's wretched state isn't glorified above all else?

When I was in church I noticed something... the "nobodies", the seemingly "ignorant", the "ragamuffins", and the seemingly not "sanctified enough" often reported miracles, signs, wonders, and favor more than those of us who were spit and polished Pentecostals with our straight ties, white collars, perfect hair, and verbose "preacher draw" used while speaking. It was the average Joe and the average Jane who often had many things out of place in their lives that received various miracles. Some might see it differently, but that's my experience.

Essentially, we've lost the idea of a Sovereign God. We tend to think that our performance earns or disqualifies an act of God that should be entirely dependent upon His undeserved mercy and grace. For example, we think that God would heal a devout sister who dresses right, doesn't wear makeup, or jewelry... over a brother who still smokes, listens to rock and roll on the drive home, and has a girlfriend who lives with him. The truth is... God is sovereign. Miracles, signs, and wonders are acts of mercy and grace, and God bestows them upon whom He chooses.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

Very good, Aquila. Not to disregard the rest of what you wrote, but this is the stand-out quote of the post. Well done.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

A lot of truth there!

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

You know the first time my gift operated I was not seeking it. I was hardly aware such things happened except as there were written in the Bible. I was just seeking the Lord having only been a believer a few months. I wasn't even going to Church yet. Just a new convert seeking Jesus.

Initially I had an experience with tongues and prophecy that came to pass immediately. That was awesome in itself. Then I starting having dreams that would come to pass usually but not always within a day or two. This has been happening since 1974.

It is good to seek the gifts. Paul said so. I think part of it must be just the diligent seeking of the Lord himself in prayer and obedience. Just hungering and thirsting after righteousness.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

Cool, MtD! i wonder if you would describe your prophecy experience? ty

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

MtD?

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

It usually comes in a dream. In 1974 I was attending a Freewill Baptist Church. Not long after I left there I dreamed about a lady in the Church that did a lot of solo singing. She was well thought of there and seemed like a spiritual person.

I dreamed she was committing fornication with someone, she was a married woman. Shortly after this I was told the Pastor had resigned because he was in an adulterous relationship with that woman.

A while later I was attending a large Pentecostal Church. I had a dream about the organ player. She was committing sexual sin with someone. During the next prayer meeting at Church I requested prayer that God would reveal any sin that was in the Church. The next day it came out the woman I dreamed of and the Pastor of the Church had fell into sin.

In that same Church was a young lady who the people regarded as an evangelist. One night I dreamed she was dating an unsaved man. I called her and told her this and she denied it vehemently. I felt bad and apologized and told her I was sorry and must have missed the Lord. Afterward when I was away at work she called my wife and told her what I said was actually true and she had lied.

A while back I was holding meetings with some people in our town. One night I dreamed that some people we had known years earlier who had fallen into the Catholic Faith had come to visit them and persuade them into their faith. We talked in the next few days and the brother told me those same people had come to his house and tried to get them to leave the truth and come away with them.

These are a few examples to encourage faith for those who read.

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

Wow--i would call that a pretty special gift. Kind of surprised that you might classify it 'prophecy' rather than 'dreams,' but i see why! ty

Re: Question about spiritual gifts?
 

I believe that they may manifest as God desires to use us... or one can seek them. I also believe that one who exercises their gift becomes better at understanding (discerning) what the Spirit is truly doing, revealing, or saying.

Hebrews 5:12-14
English Standard Version (ESV)
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Training and practice isn't a bad thing. In fact, it strengthens us and causes us to really begin understanding the things of the Spirit.