Question about spiritual gifts?

[Luke]

I have often wondered why do not see more signs and miracles than we do and why it seems that at one time these things were more prominent than now? While thinking about this I remembered these scriptures:

1 Cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Cor 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Do these verses teach that we must seek to receive spiritual gifts or do we just receive them when we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

[justlookin]

We must seek spiritual gifts. In other words, it takes effort on our part. In the youtube video, an actual healing of bladder cancer is recorded and starts at about the 5:00 minute mark. It's the image on the right on the sonogram. It takes effort on their part and it's amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVjdvRw4LM

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Luke

I have often wondered why do not see more signs and miracles than we do and why it seems that at one time these things were more prominent than now? While thinking about this I remembered these scriptures:

1 Cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Cor 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Do these verses teach that we must seek to receive spiritual gifts or do we just receive them when we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

While I believe God can and does give gifts without seeking, it seems that this teaching in part an effort on our end to seek or be available.

I never hear churches stressing this.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

While I believe God can and does give gifts without seeking, it seems that this teaching in part an effort on our end to seek or be available.

I never hear churches stressing this.

I never remember hearing it taught in this way before and was curious what others thought.

[Praxeas]

I teach it to our bible study group.

[votivesoul]

There are some reasons, that, in my mind, lend themselves to understanding why the Gifts of the Spirit aren't seemingly occurring as often, especially miracles and healings.

1.) The need has decreased. Who needs God to do for them what modern medicine can do over the counter? Who needs a financial miracle when capitalism and the American dream provide an endless supply of opportunities to increase one's income? Who should expect a financial miracle when their personal stewardship of what God has blessed them with is non-existent?

2.) Many, MANY health problems in the world today are self-inflicted, brought about through terrible diets, lack of exercise, and other detrimental habits. Paul assured us whosoever defiles God's temple, God will destroy. We reap what we sow. God is not obligated to cure a man of lung cancer if said man smoked for most of his life. Nor yet cure Type II Diabetes for an overweight person who commits the sin of gluttony on a daily basis.

Nor is God obligated to bail anyone out of any other bad decision, like who they marry, what job they take, how they spend their money, and etc. Why should God bend or break the laws of physics for someone who caused their own problems?

3.) The Gospel has become an intellectual affair based on good hermeneutics and apologetics, instead of being a received by faith doctrine established and proven through signs, wonders, and diverse miracles.

Faith isn't preached much these days. The Resurrection is commonly ignored. Heaven isn't believed and accepted as a true reality.

Not to mention all the fakers and false proclaimers who destroy the faith of those who otherwise are genuinely interested in seeing a demonstration of the Holy Spirit.

4.) Doctrinal error and division in the Body of Christ will never get God's stamp of approval. Why would God operate His Gifts in order to bless and edify a scattered, disarrayed bunch of politicking haters who can't look a brother or sister in the eyes when they gossip about them?

5.) Finally, no apostles. The signs of an Apostle were common once upon a time. Now, with pastor pulpits and entire churches and organizations dominated by people who aren't called to Apostleship, it's no wonder the charismata have nearly disappeared.

To put it simply, the wrong people are in charge, which is disorder and confusion.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

I have often wondered why do not see more signs and miracles than we do and why it seems that at one time these things were more prominent than now?

I once read a book on every miracle in the Bible. Even in the Bible miracles took place in clusters that surrounded a personality and their message. The purpose was to validate the message. When miracles, signs, and wonders cease... perhaps there is something wrong with the message?

While thinking about this I remembered these scriptures:

1 Cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Cor 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Do these verses teach that we must seek to receive spiritual gifts or do we just receive them when we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

I believe that one should seek spiritual gifts. Not only that, one should learn how to hone those spiritual waters through practice.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

There are some reasons, that, in my mind, lend themselves to understanding why the Gifts of the Spirit aren't seemingly occurring as often, especially miracles and healings.

1.) The need has decreased. Who needs God to do for them what modern medicine can do over the counter? Who needs a financial miracle when capitalism and the American dream provide an endless supply of opportunities to increase one's income? Who should expect a financial miracle when their personal stewardship of what God has blessed them with is non-existent?

2.) Many, MANY health problems in the world today are self-inflicted, brought about through terrible diets, lack of exercise, and other detrimental habits. Paul assured us whosoever defiles God's temple, God will destroy. We reap what we sow. God is not obligated to cure a man of lung cancer if said man smoked for most of his life. Nor yet cure Type II Diabetes for an overweight person who commits the sin of gluttony on a daily basis.

Nor is God obligated to bail anyone out of any other bad decision, like who they marry, what job they take, how they spend their money, and etc. Why should God bend or break the laws of physics for someone who caused their own problems?

3.) The Gospel has become an intellectual affair based on good hermeneutics and apologetics, instead of being a received by faith doctrine established and proven through signs, wonders, and diverse miracles.

Faith isn't preached much these days. The Resurrection is commonly ignored. Heaven isn't believed and accepted as a true reality.

Not to mention all the fakers and false proclaimers who destroy the faith of those who otherwise are genuinely interested in seeing a demonstration of the Holy Spirit.

4.) Doctrinal error and division in the Body of Christ will never get God's stamp of approval. Why would God operate His Gifts in order to bless and edify a scattered, disarrayed bunch of politicking haters who can't look a brother or sister in the eyes when they gossip about them?

5.) Finally, no apostles. The signs of an Apostle were common once upon a time. Now, with pastor pulpits and entire churches and organizations dominated by people who aren't called to Apostleship, it's no wonder the charismata have nearly disappeared.

To put it simply, the wrong people are in charge, which is disorder and confusion.

Great point. I'd also like to add "Legalism" as a reason that we don't see more miracles and signs. One might ask how this would cause signs and wonders to cease. Well for several reasons:

1.) When one is caught up in a legalistic religious framework, there is the tendency to believe that receiving a miracle or being used to work a miracle is predicated upon one's religious performance. If the individual isn't truly "living up" to the legalistic expectations, they feel unworthy and this begins to descend into unbelief.

2.) When one is caught up I a legalistic religious framework, there is the tendency to believe that miracles signs and wonders validate one's level of holiness or righteousness. The end result is the individual being able to claim some of the glory based on their perceived stellar performance.

3.) Why would God allow miracles, signs, and wonders to take place that would validate a religious framework wherein His grace and mercy in light of man's wretched state isn't glorified above all else?

When I was in church I noticed something... the "nobodies", the seemingly "ignorant", the "ragamuffins", and the seemingly not "sanctified enough" often reported miracles, signs, wonders, and favor more than those of us who were spit and polished Pentecostals with our straight ties, white collars, perfect hair, and verbose "preacher draw" used while speaking. It was the average Joe and the average Jane who often had many things out of place in their lives that received various miracles. Some might see it differently, but that's my experience.

Essentially, we've lost the idea of a Sovereign God. We tend to think that our performance earns or disqualifies an act of God that should be entirely dependent upon His undeserved mercy and grace. For example, we think that God would heal a devout sister who dresses right, doesn't wear makeup, or jewelry... over a brother who still smokes, listens to rock and roll on the drive home, and has a girlfriend who lives with him. The truth is... God is sovereign. Miracles, signs, and wonders are acts of mercy and grace, and God bestows them upon whom He chooses.

[votivesoul]

Miracles, signs, and wonders are acts of mercy and grace, and God bestows them upon whom He chooses.

Very good, Aquila. Not to disregard the rest of what you wrote, but this is the stand-out quote of the post. Well done.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

There are some reasons, that, in my mind, lend themselves to understanding why the Gifts of the Spirit aren't seemingly occurring as often, especially miracles and healings.

1.) The need has decreased. Who needs God to do for them what modern medicine can do over the counter? Who needs a financial miracle when capitalism and the American dream provide an endless supply of opportunities to increase one's income? Who should expect a financial miracle when their personal stewardship of what God has blessed them with is non-existent?

2.) Many, MANY health problems in the world today are self-inflicted, brought about through terrible diets, lack of exercise, and other detrimental habits. Paul assured us whosoever defiles God's temple, God will destroy. We reap what we sow. God is not obligated to cure a man of lung cancer if said man smoked for most of his life. Nor yet cure Type II Diabetes for an overweight person who commits the sin of gluttony on a daily basis.

Nor is God obligated to bail anyone out of any other bad decision, like who they marry, what job they take, how they spend their money, and etc. Why should God bend or break the laws of physics for someone who caused their own problems?

3.) The Gospel has become an intellectual affair based on good hermeneutics and apologetics, instead of being a received by faith doctrine established and proven through signs, wonders, and diverse miracles.

Faith isn't preached much these days. The Resurrection is commonly ignored. Heaven isn't believed and accepted as a true reality.

Not to mention all the fakers and false proclaimers who destroy the faith of those who otherwise are genuinely interested in seeing a demonstration of the Holy Spirit.

4.) Doctrinal error and division in the Body of Christ will never get God's stamp of approval. Why would God operate His Gifts in order to bless and edify a scattered, disarrayed bunch of politicking haters who can't look a brother or sister in the eyes when they gossip about them?

5.) Finally, no apostles. The signs of an Apostle were common once upon a time. Now, with pastor pulpits and entire churches and organizations dominated by people who aren't called to Apostleship, it's no wonder the charismata have nearly disappeared.

To put it simply, the wrong people are in charge, which is disorder and confusion.

A lot of truth there!