David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

EDORSED BY DR. DAVID K. BERNARD!!!! (see Dr. Bernard's comments below)

"A distinctly Pentecostal doctrine of justification"

In recent years, several scholarly works have discussed the theology of salvation, particularly justification and sanctification, in ways that are of special interest to Oneness Pentecostals. One such book is, “Justified in the Spirit: Creation, Redemption and the Triune God” written by Frank D. Macchia.

Macchian is an Assemblies of God scholar and university professor. He argues for a distinctly Pentecostal doctrine of justification. In contrast to traditional Protestant explanations, he emphasizes that justification is not just forensic (legal).That is, it is not solely a transaction or declaration that occurs outside humans. “Justification in scripture has legal overtones but cannot be grasped by any legal metaphor. Righteousness is not imputed; it is accessed or participated in through faith and by the life of the Spirit” (6). Justification is both in the Spirit and by faith (53). It is both imputation and indwelling, not one without the other (67).

As a corollary, he argues that the legal theory of the Atonement is also inadequate, specifically Anselm’s satisfaction theory. Christ’s sacrifice is not merely a legal payment, but it involves God himself taking on the consequences of our sin through the death of Christ. “Justice is fulfilled through mercy and redemption by God’s taking injustice, shame and death into Godself in order to bring all things into the intimate communion of the Spirit” (166).

Finally, he asserts that we cannot separate the Atonement from Pentecost or justification, as Protestants typically do. “One cannot…..separate the cross from the resurrection and Pentecost along the lines of justification and sanctification.

…………Rather than sanctification and justification representing two thoroughly distinct stages or dimensions of one’s salvation, they are to be viewed as two overlapping and mutually complementary lenses” (8). “If we are ever to recover the ancient integration of justification and the Spirit, we must heal the breach between the cross and Pentecost”(162).

While Macchia links the doctrine of the Atonement to the Trinity, his explanation can easily be enunciated in Oneness terms. He addresses classic Oneness interests: Christ’s work on the cross is actually God’s work in Christ; justification involves the work of the Holy Spirit; and justification issues forth in sanctification. Indeed he quotes from Frank Ewart several times and cites my work on justification. He suggests that the Oneness Pentecostal view of initiation, which includes the impartation of the Holy Spirit, is the ‘quintessential Pentecostal soteriology”(187).

http://www.amazon.com/Justified-Spir...the+Triune+God

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

This just takes the cake.

For years I have been forced to read Trinitarian books, and I despise every time I encountered references to the trinity, yet because no Apostolic has addressed the subject in that book, I just ignore the Trinitarian parts and continue reading.

I am sickened by this endorsement from a Oneness believer.
Instead of endorsing books by Trinitarians we need to encourage more Apostolics to write books on those subjects.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Oh settle down! When I was an AoG minister it was attitudes like you display here that completely turned me off to the Oneness crowd. I came to truth IN SPITE of people like you.

Dr Bernard shows great wisdom in giving this guy credit for the insight he DOES have, How can he be won if we all act like you? You'll just needlessly insult people. Have you NOTHING to say about the SUBSTANCE of the book?


And WHY don't more Apostolics write books like these? We are too busy writing books slamming others and each other.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

This is very encouraging.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thess 5:21)
My friend, Truth is not invalidated when someone who does not believe as we do endorses it. The devils believe in one God (Ja 2:19); that does not mean because they do that we shouldn't.

The author's endorsement of Apostolic soteriological themes is actually encouraging!

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Nathaniel Urshan was on the oversight committee for the NKJV

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

And "God's Word" translation

http://godswordtranslation.wordpress.com/2009/02/

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

I do not believe I have insulted people.

Now that I know the book promotes the trinity, I will wait until an Apostolic Brother writes on the same subject.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Insults are cool as long as they are not "needless?" :)

As you carry on the great tradition! :thumbsup

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Bernard probably endorses a lot of Apostolic books as do other Apostolic leaders

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

I clicked on the link and could not find "endorsed by David Bernard". Where do I go?

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

The endorsement is from Bernard's article in "FORWARD" magazine. The link is to Amazon, not an endorsement.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

So did you also just "carry on the tradition" by correcting me?

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

He's looking our way!!

lol

I've been saying for years that justification and sanctification are two sides of the same coin. I believe others had said so as well far longer and better than I. Funny how we keep reinventing the wheel on so many things.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

So can we simplify all this? The Apostles never wrote in such a manner. I THINK he is saying Acts 2:38 is the true plan of salvation. I have been attending an AOG Church now and then lately and the first time there I read an article along this line.

I think it was by the president of the AOG. He seemed to be saying he now believed Acts 2:38 was Christian initiation. That certainly is a step up in understanding.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

:guns

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

All Christians except Quakers believe baptism is a Christian initiation

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Not true. Many "evangelicals" believe baptism is a sign you already are a Christian.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Yes...that is still an initiation.

They believe God baptized that person into the Church. The water baptism would be their way of accepting that Person as a brother to the local congregation (and by extension the rest at large)

They all believe that

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

That's not "Christian initiation " which about becoming a Christian, that would be "initiation as a member of a local assembly" and those evangelicals make that explicitly clear.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Not necessarily. Its really all about how you use Initiation

Entering someone into the kingdom of God or a part of the churches initiation ritual.

All groups believe baptism is necessary, just not necessary for salvation, but an necessary part of being a Christian just like going to church and prayer etc etc. You don't have to DO those before being saved.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

A Baptist Preacher named David Pawson has made it far easier to understand in his book The Normal Christian Birth. He lays out Acts 2:38 the same way Apostolics do. And altho a strong Trinitarian he even teaches baptism in Jesus name. He teaches Evangelicals are wrong about receiving the Spirit at belief!

He introduced it at IHOP a few years ago and some of the ministers there accepted it. I think their Pastor even tho at first promoting it fell back into Evangelical error and quenched the holy fire.

David Pawson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIh8E2YmC-g

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

I remember listening to David Pawson when I was really into the IHOP Movement. Although I believe that an Apostolic or two may have infiltrated their ranks in a manner that could affect their doctrinal leanings, neither Pawson, nor anyone at IHOP ever came close to stating that a person was not saved until they spoke in tongues.

This is a key spot where Apostolics depart from scripture. Pawson never espoused this. IHOP never came close to endorsing such a twisted view of scriptural salvation.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

So you believe people are saved without receiving the Holy Ghost?

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

I believe Brother Bernard's "endorsement" is actually found in a section of the Forward magazine entitled "The Theology of Salvation: Book Reviews." It is true that the book he reviews is written by a Trinitarian--but he doesn't endorse the Trinitarian aspects of the book; in fact, he points out that the author "Quotes from Frank Ewart several times and cites my work on justification." Furthermore, he points out that on page 87 of the book--the author says that the Oneness Pentecostal understanding of salvation is the "quintessential Pentecostal Soteriology."
I don't really have a problem with the Book review for three reasons.
1. The Forward magazine--where the review was printed--is written for ministers--which I trust will have some maturity and the ability to discern truth from error in what they are reading--or as we commonly say in the south "pick the bones."
2. There are many great books written by those who have not yet embraced the Oneness Message--for example "In Jesus Name" by David Reed is--in my opinion--one of the best expositions of the history and doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism. Of course, my praise for this book doesn't mean that I embrace Trinitarianism--in fact, I think some of his conclusions are faulty; nevertheless it was a good read and overall it was a positive reflection on the Movement.
3. Most of the songs we sing in church are written by Trinitarians in church; in fact, the vast majority of the translators--at least in our English Bibles--embraced the doctrine of the Trinity.

In short, I would be the first to object...if Brother Bernard endorsed Trinitarianism but he didn't. He simply pointed out some positive aspects of a book written by a Trinitarian Pentecostal that deals with justification in a similar manner as Oneness Pentecostals and even quotes Oneness writers in a positive light.
Anyway....my take
God Bless
Brother Doug

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Did you listen to this video? He makes it abundantly clear that Evangelicals teach error concerning receiving the Holy Spirit. He does allow for other initial evidence but points strongly toward the belief that all should speak in tongues.

So if you watch the video you will hear him say MANY TIMES one must repent, believe, be baptized in water and receive the Holy Spirit to be fully a Christian. He even says to be BORN AGAIN.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Well this thread was sort of a test and most of you flunked it. So far nobody really has commented on the substance of the book Bernard was critiquing. Rather, and predictably most of the attention has been on whether or not Bernard should be endorsing books written by Trinitarians.

So, would someone mind actually commenting on the overall theme of the book that Bernard critiqued? Thank you.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

How can we comment on the book unless we buy and read it? How do we know what he is saying?

The excerpt in the first post is written in a way it gives no clarity as to what his beliefs might be.

So in the book does he say the Holy Spirit baptism is essential for salvation? Or does he wind up merely restating tired, stale AOG type teaching?

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

We can at least comment on the vain he is heading even if we don't know all that is in the book. For instance,



or.....

This flies in the face of most Protestant views of justification.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

I fail to see the big deal. Trinitarians are just as Christian as anyone else who names the name of Christ as their savior.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Again that really is not what the book is about.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

What makes you so sure of that? A true Trinitarians denies that Jesus is the only God.......the Heavenly Father.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Thank you. :thumbsup

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

They're looking our way!!! Woo-hoo!!

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

As a student at Christian Life College, we had required reading of textbooks that were not Oneness.

When students complained about non Apostolic authors, our teachers told us to write textbooks after we graduated. Which, for the most part, has not happened.

Apostolics have not, for they write not.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

In a way thats good. Most books contain some amount of error. Any topic in the Bible could be covered in less than 20 pages.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Any topic in the Bible could be covered in one page.
but to really cover it fully it might take a thousand pages or more.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Think of it this way. My ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT is 339 pages long. That covers 4 books proclaiming Jesus life. The history of the early Church.

The writings of Paul, 13 letters some long some short. The writings of Peter, James, John and Jude. Any doctrine that is part of Jesus teaching is contained in those 339 pages!

And yet people write Christian books on some topic as long as the ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT!

Then they get paid for it.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Since the Bible is translated by Trinitarians, promotion of Bible reading, endorses reading literature translated by Trinitarians.

Easy stuff.

Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!
 

Actually the mental state or philosophy of the translators does affect the words chosen in translation.

The reason the KJV is so pro-Trinitarian is because it was written by Trinitarians, if the KJV had been translated by Unitarians it would have a whole lot less of a Trinitarian bias.