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  #1  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:05 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

EDORSED BY DR. DAVID K. BERNARD!!!! (see Dr. Bernard's comments below)

"A distinctly Pentecostal doctrine of justification"

In recent years, several scholarly works have discussed the theology of salvation, particularly justification and sanctification, in ways that are of special interest to Oneness Pentecostals. One such book is, “Justified in the Spirit: Creation, Redemption and the Triune God” written by Frank D. Macchia.

Macchian is an Assemblies of God scholar and university professor. He argues for a distinctly Pentecostal doctrine of justification. In contrast to traditional Protestant explanations, he emphasizes that justification is not just forensic (legal).That is, it is not solely a transaction or declaration that occurs outside humans. “Justification in scripture has legal overtones but cannot be grasped by any legal metaphor. Righteousness is not imputed; it is accessed or participated in through faith and by the life of the Spirit” (6). Justification is both in the Spirit and by faith (53). It is both imputation and indwelling, not one without the other (67).

As a corollary, he argues that the legal theory of the Atonement is also inadequate, specifically Anselm’s satisfaction theory. Christ’s sacrifice is not merely a legal payment, but it involves God himself taking on the consequences of our sin through the death of Christ. “Justice is fulfilled through mercy and redemption by God’s taking injustice, shame and death into Godself in order to bring all things into the intimate communion of the Spirit” (166).

Finally, he asserts that we cannot separate the Atonement from Pentecost or justification, as Protestants typically do. “One cannot…..separate the cross from the resurrection and Pentecost along the lines of justification and sanctification.

…………Rather than sanctification and justification representing two thoroughly distinct stages or dimensions of one’s salvation, they are to be viewed as two overlapping and mutually complementary lenses” (8). “If we are ever to recover the ancient integration of justification and the Spirit, we must heal the breach between the cross and Pentecost”(162).

While Macchia links the doctrine of the Atonement to the Trinity, his explanation can easily be enunciated in Oneness terms. He addresses classic Oneness interests: Christ’s work on the cross is actually God’s work in Christ; justification involves the work of the Holy Spirit; and justification issues forth in sanctification. Indeed he quotes from Frank Ewart several times and cites my work on justification. He suggests that the Oneness Pentecostal view of initiation, which includes the impartation of the Holy Spirit, is the ‘quintessential Pentecostal soteriology”(187).

http://www.amazon.com/Justified-Spir...the+Triune+God
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:23 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

This just takes the cake.

For years I have been forced to read Trinitarian books, and I despise every time I encountered references to the trinity, yet because no Apostolic has addressed the subject in that book, I just ignore the Trinitarian parts and continue reading.

I am sickened by this endorsement from a Oneness believer.
Instead of endorsing books by Trinitarians we need to encourage more Apostolics to write books on those subjects.
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:40 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
This just takes the cake.

For years I have been forced to read Trinitarian books, and I despise every time I encountered references to the trinity, yet because no Apostolic has addressed the subject in that book, I just ignore the Trinitarian parts and continue reading.

I am sickened by this endorsement from a Oneness believer.
Instead of endorsing books by Trinitarians we need to encourage more Apostolics to write books on those subjects.
Oh settle down! When I was an AoG minister it was attitudes like you display here that completely turned me off to the Oneness crowd. I came to truth IN SPITE of people like you.

Dr Bernard shows great wisdom in giving this guy credit for the insight he DOES have, How can he be won if we all act like you? You'll just needlessly insult people. Have you NOTHING to say about the SUBSTANCE of the book?


And WHY don't more Apostolics write books like these? We are too busy writing books slamming others and each other.

Last edited by Originalist; 09-17-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:43 PM
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OnTheFritz OnTheFritz is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

This is very encouraging.
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:50 PM
DaveC519 DaveC519 is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
This just takes the cake.

For years I have been forced to read Trinitarian books, and I despise every time I encountered references to the trinity, yet because no Apostolic has addressed the subject in that book, I just ignore the Trinitarian parts and continue reading.

I am sickened by this endorsement from a Oneness believer.
Instead of endorsing books by Trinitarians we need to encourage more Apostolics to write books on those subjects.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thess 5:21)
My friend, Truth is not invalidated when someone who does not believe as we do endorses it. The devils believe in one God (Ja 2:19); that does not mean because they do that we shouldn't.

The author's endorsement of Apostolic soteriological themes is actually encouraging!
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2014, 10:31 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

Nathaniel Urshan was on the oversight committee for the NKJV
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:41 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

And "God's Word" translation

http://godswordtranslation.wordpress.com/2009/02/
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2014, 10:47 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Oh settle down! When I was an AoG minister it was attitudes like you display here that completely turned me off to the Oneness crowd. I came to truth IN SPITE of people like you.

Dr Bernard shows great wisdom in giving this guy credit for the insight he DOES have, How can he be won if we all act like you? You'll just needlessly insult people. Have you NOTHING to say about the SUBSTANCE of the book?

And WHY don't more Apostolics write books like these? We are too busy writing books slamming others and each other.
I do not believe I have insulted people.

Now that I know the book promotes the trinity, I will wait until an Apostolic Brother writes on the same subject.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2014, 11:03 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Oh settle down! When I was an AoG minister it was attitudes like you display here that completely turned me off to the Oneness crowd. I came to truth IN SPITE of people like you.

Dr Bernard shows great wisdom in giving this guy credit for the insight he DOES have, How can he be won if we all act like you? You'll just needlessly insult people. Have you NOTHING to say about the SUBSTANCE of the book?
Insults are cool as long as they are not "needless?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
And WHY don't more Apostolics write books like these? We are too busy writing books slamming others and each other.
As you carry on the great tradition!
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2014, 11:22 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
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Re: David Bernard endorses Trinitarian book!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
This just takes the cake.

For years I have been forced to read Trinitarian books, and I despise every time I encountered references to the trinity, yet because no Apostolic has addressed the subject in that book, I just ignore the Trinitarian parts and continue reading.

I am sickened by this endorsement from a Oneness believer.
Instead of endorsing books by Trinitarians we need to encourage more Apostolics to write books on those subjects.
Bernard probably endorses a lot of Apostolic books as do other Apostolic leaders
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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