Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

So often (if not always) a problem or enduring pain in this physical life is an indication somethings changing or needing to be changed in your Spiritual walk. It happens to everyone and often. Sometimes it's not hardly noticeable and other times it shakes you to your core. But every time it opens a pathway to growth. I'm in awe when God gives me the opportunity to see it playing out in my life before my eyes. I think it's part of praying and God granting understanding about these things. If your dealing with something in your life in the physical realm whether it be at work, your spouse, or some kind of pain you better believe that it's also playing out in your spirit as well. And the good news is that both are used to further you on the path to a closer walk with God. We just usually think we had a bad day (or good one) when really we are having growing pains. And sometimes it's the only way we will change. And change is exactly what we need or trust me our kind, gentil, loving, and always merciful God would prevent us from ever seeing troubling times. Too often we fail to see what we are missing or we take our eye that is supposed to be single off of Him and place it on something else. Often we are not even aware we are doing this until it's already done. We feel as if we are doing what we can to have a walk with God. We did the same thing today as yesterday. Isn't that good enough? No. We are to be ever changing. We are the clay, not a finished vessel. And Jesus is the potter. And we never want him to take His hands off of us. But if we were finished, He would have no reason to continue molding and shaping us into what He desires us to be. See, that is where we are missing it when we start thinking we know what God has in store for us. Or that we know what we need and that our desires are Gods desires. And mercy is handed out here, too, when after we do all we can to see our desires play out instead of His we see that His desire for our life is much sweeter than what we wanted anyway. How patient is our God! He treats us like we are an only child that He's waited a lifetime to have and looks at us as if we never made a mistake, every time. Could you be mean or harm your own tiny little beautiful baby that you waited for ever for? God sees you as that baby once you become His. He loves you like that but even more. Let the desires of God play out in your life. Let Him make your path straight. It's what Paul did and was talking about 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
So Paul would rather have problems knowing God would see him through than to be free from trouble with the possibility of forgetting God. That's a big thing. Know what your asking when you desire to be close to God. You may think your ready but change is the only way. We think we see clearly that this path we walk is leading us to God and sometimes we are wondering around blindly. God will straighten your path if you don't resist and can see what's going on. We often began to fight against it at first not knowing change is needed. Gods not working against you, He's working on you, for you. Pray for understanding. Pray for knowledge.

I don't expect everyone here will agree with most of this. It is my experience and story dealing with severe lower back pain for a few years and realizing even this pain has a purpose?

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Truly deep, Y. Any pain is an indicator that change is needed. And we pray for the pain to be removed, when the pain is to indicate the change that is needed, that we refuse to hear. That is not a prayer of faith.

And when you pray, you are asking for pain, if you are praying correctly, because what you pray for must be in faith. So i tell you that you might have no pain, and pray a prayer in faith, expecting some gift, or miracle, but what you are going to get is invariably pain to you, because it is change that you are asking for, and changing self is not ever pleasant. Now, you are free to not hear the lesson that God sends you, in answer to your prayer; i have not heard a lesson 3, 5, 10 times, before i finally realized "oh; this is what i prayed for, but i was looking for a present. I was not looking for hearing that i needed to change."

Actually i don't know about 10 times, unless you kept praying in faith, and kept not hearing. But the point is that the answer to a prayer in faith is not going to come like...how did you say it? "...when we start thinking we know what God has in store for us. Or that we know what we need and that our desires are Gods desires."

this is My Grace is sufficient, for all your needs.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Amen. Yes.

And its not a "woe is me" moment for me as some might assume. I am beginning to appreciate that what I felt was unfair at a time has blossomed into blessings for my family who has watched from relative safety. It's taken me to some dark deep places I would have never explored within myself only to find that God was using me and knew too well I'd come out better than I went in. He was curing me of something I didn't know was wrong. He was appealing to my heart, I was petitioning for my body. I resisted as I am prone to do. I was always at a crossroad. I prayed for His Will and for a physical healing. His Will will suffice!

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

amen. Pray, pray all you like, for physical healing. Read entire books written about prayers for healing, from people who do not know what they are talking about, and pray some more. Post your results here :)

Are you praying for a miracle? The miracle comes when you are able to hear, what you did not hear 1000 times before.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

I wouldn't waste my time. If God wants me whole then He will make me whole. It was counter-productive for me to pray the way I was used to praying. We ask for strength, but what makes us strong? As soon as He starts working in us the things that need worked out we resist and start begging for mercy. We want a close walk with God but rarely are ready to accept the changes that are needed in order for that to happen. I personally ask God to reveal the things within me that might hinder my relationship with Him. I've plenty let me tell you. Now I need strength to make the changes He's revealed. Oh boy, I already know how we receive strength lol. I've actually considered not praying for strength before knowing how it is to be acquired. How selfish, huh?

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Well, I thank God for His will. Knowing it is perfect and my desires are lacking if they don't line up with it. God help us all to more and more understand and keep Your will the object of our hearts and prayers.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

?

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

I have always thought that this scripture was a powerful one.

Phil. 3:10-11
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death, if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."

It is through the fellowship of his sufferings that our flesh learns to die here so that our spirit will live eternally with Him.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Should've probably worded that different. But I mean to say that I wouldn't personally care to read the books about praying for healing. I was meaning to agree.

And I know God has the power to make me whole, yet I still ache. Leaving me with the conclusion that it is His will, for now, for me.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Amen

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

ah, makes sense now, ok.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Yes. As does the gospel save us from our sins.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

I found out a few years ago that I had what is called a "SLAP" tear in my right shoulder and that the only way my right arm was going to work properly again was to have surgery.

I summoned the elders who anointed me in the name of the Lord. I lifted my hands in prayer. The Holy Spirit descended like a dove, and the voice of the Most High, as it were, came to me ever so sweetly and as it were, said "I'm going to heal your attitude..."

And in God's own gracious way, He let me know He wasn't going to touch my shoulder; rather He was going to touch my soul, and cause me to be able to maintain a righteous attitude about suffering physically through the trial.

And it was quite the trial. My wife and I had a two year old, and she was expecting. The birth of our son occurred merely days after I was finally allowed to take my sling off permanently. I still, however had lifting restrictions, and couldn't do much of anything to help my wife after she had given birth. I could only, if sitting, hold our son in my left hand and arm. Otherwise, I couldn't do chores, change diapers, or anything until several months had passed.

And that was merely the start of a whole new adventure in injury and pain and diagnoses, and etc. too long to detail in this post.

Pray for me. I'm going back to the Orthopedic Surgeon. My GP believes the labrum in my right shoulder is again damaged.

PS. A SLAP tear is a Superior Labrum Anterior Posterior tear in the cartilage where the 1.) greater humerus bone meets the ball and socket joint of the shoulder, and 2.) The long-head tendon from the bicep attaches to the shoulder joint at the top (i.e. superior) part of the labrum, and is torn front to back (i.e. anterior to posterior).

For more info: http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00627

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

I'll be praying for Gods will in this situation Votive. Glad you shared. Sounds horrific.

I'm a big strong man and my wife is a petite little lady so it looked bad when we went anywhere and she was toting my daughter or son. No one knew I could barely get around myself.

I was in a bad way with my back a couple years ago to the point of almost immobile. I have always refused treatment. I don't take medicines of any kind. No conviction there, just dont like the way it makes me feel. But this was it. Something had to be done. I was on my knees crying out to God and felt an overwhelming comfort rush through my body. For a couple months I felt like I had a new back. I guess it was just a loaner, lol. As I said before, I am thankful now for all that I've been through as this was what it took to reveal those things in me that hinder my walk with God.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

I disagree with the physical pain part. We are humans we will die. On the path from birth to death we will have pain. Can we have spiritual gain because we have physical pain? Hmmmmm only because the pain brings our focus more on the prayer of faith. I don't believe I fell and broke my arm because something was out of line spiritually. Now with the physical pain and the missed work and paychecks ofcourse I prayed more for my situation than normal. I have stopped praying for myself when I have a cold or stump my toe or when my son cut himself really bad. Its not because I don't have faith in healing its because I have realized as humans these things are going to happen. Now on the flip side I do pray for safety over my family. I think sometime we think we are not supposed to endure anything physical.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Not whining about a liitle pain. Rather rejoicing at what it's done for me.

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.

I'm weak.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

I must be slow. I am not following your thought pattern. I totally disagree with the first sentence in your original post. I don't believe physical pain has anything to do with spirituality. We have physical pain simply because we are human. Can we and should we gain spiritually from physical pain? prolly so. But to imply that most all physical pain is because of spiritual shortcoming is a stretch.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

It's likely not you, lol. I have a hard time conveying my thoughts.

I read that Paul had pain (thorn in the flesh) and petitioned God about it and received this message.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

It took me a long time to realize there was good that could come from my pain. But it could be that in my weakness His strength is made perfect. And I guess you can look at it like everyone has pains. But I know from experience that years of back pain are different than a few weeks with a broken arm. Either way, I'm done focusing on the pain and that is the point of the thread. Victory for me didn't have to come with physical healing.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Now I see more clearly. The understanding that one will have pain, acute or chronic, during a lifetime and not get healed is my point. Accepting the fact that this pain will be part of your life until death IMO is a victory. After this acceptance you can focus on other things. Then you can truly say "through Christ alone..."

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

well, imo that is the least of what the Gospel does, K, not the most. That is Nehushtan.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

hmm. good points, prolly. like anything else, there is more than one way to perceive pain. if i run a marathon, i don't expect to not be in some acute pain afterward. But chronic pain? might be a sign?

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

A sign of what? Spiritual issues or physical?

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

well, could be either one, i guess, i would not want to define it to the exclusion of anything else. But chronic 'physical' might even be expected, if one did...i dunno, some repetitive motion at work, or whatever, on a regular basis? But chronic pain, when one is unaware of the cause? i would def be looking spiritual imo. Iow if you can ID the cause of any pain, "this is the fruit of that," well that seems different than 'i am in pain, and i don't know why.'

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

There is always a cause of true chronic pain.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

true, but that doesn't mean that the cause is always known, does it? i have an old gf with twin daughters who get debilitating migraines, have for years, i guess. sweetest hearts you ever met, like missionary types. i can't figure it out, personally.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

So is it spiritual or physical in your opinion?

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Wow, that is quite a story that you have shared! Amazing how God let you know beforehand that it was to be a trial. I know that you walk close with the Lord, and are trusting Him in all of this. However, might I suggest, since you are considering another surgery to get a second opinion? I can recommend probably one of the most highly qualified shoulder surgeons in the world, who is a family friend. PM me if you would like to know more.

Regardless, I will be praying for you! God never takes us through the desert places without cultivating something mighty in and through us.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

We cannot understand or know the mind of the Lord and what He chooses to use in our lives to bring us to a closer relationship with him. My husband does not like meds either, so I understand. Praise God for the healing that you received, even if for a time. I will be in prayer for you too... that the Lord will make known to you exactly the purpose He has in mind for all you've been through. Yes indeed we can praise God for His grace that is always sufficient.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Yes, but finding out "what" can be the "million dollar question" sometimes. Our bodies are so amazingly complex.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Thank you.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

i have to believe spiritual, but i sure could not see it. And it's not like we had so close a relationship that i was blinded to their faults or anything, i was living in sin with their mother, pretty sure they just tolerated me, but they never evinced any judgement. Racking my brain to suggest some reason, these were 18 year old Cali girls (even if they did go to their unchurched parents at a quite young age, like 6 or 7, and ask to be taken to church; have you ever even heard of such a thing?), and they were intent on...the things 18 year old girls should be intent on, seemed to me; finding a Godly husband to set up house with, etc, but maybe a little too attached to...human security? trusting in Mammon? successful husbands, nice houses, and insurance? but i am totally guessing, and applying my standards to them as well.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

ha, so weird to read this right after. These are people being baptized with fire, they are in a crucible, and have Paul's thorn, imo. Just guessing, but i bet these are never...wasting diseases, like cancer, gout, diabetes etc. They are prolly always like, well, thorns, things you can't really ascribe a cause to. (And i am somewhat gifted at discerning causes of symptoms)

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

you are two men in a bed.
one will be taken, and the other left.
and yours is getting up now, perhaps

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

so, yes.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Physical pain is not good, if it was a good thing, then we should start praying that we would get sick and get horrible painful diseases.

If pain was a good thing, then Jesus did a bad thing in healing so many people of their diseases.

No I repeat, pain is not a good thing.

You do not need to be in physical excruciating pain in order to get spiritual gain; that is nonsense.
If we got spiritual gain thru physical pain, then heaven would be a torture chamber.

I repeat for the third time, no pain is not a good thing.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Yes, i agree; but humility is. Some people, obviously, need a thorn to teach them a lesson in Grace. Does everyone get a thorn? I certainly have no idea. Why did Paul get a thorn? Why was he in pain, if what you say is strictly true, all of the time?

Knowledge brings pride, and i don't know anyone who is immune from that. that is a hard thing to overcome, harder in some than in others, i guess.

But yes, i agree, chronic pain, that a cause cannot be found for? Is different from "My hip is killing me; but then, i drive long-haul, too."
So if one cannot find the source of their pain, they should heed the signal; some change is obviously being suggested. Some change that the person does not want to face.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

To me the pain endured brought about change. Change that I needed and likely would not have made under any other circumstances.

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

What kind of change? Primarily? Ty

Re: Physical pain, Spiritual gain
 

Primarily that His Will Be Done looks differently to me now.

I am just not able to put into words with enough emphasis to explain the change that's made in me. We go through life claiming to seek His Will when usually we find ourselves petitioning for our own.